Unfortunately the missing Tylenol has been found... another OD

[Elbry]

I posted about 11 days ago in a panic over a missing bottle of Tylenol.  Ended up in the ER with DD15, found out she's been cutting again, she hadn't taken any Tylenol at the time and she was sent home.  I was still very uncomfortable so had crisis workers to the house the next day.  Again she was left at home.  She had appts all week with med manager, T, DBT group, all went well.

3 days ago on Saturday night she didn't come home all night.  Sent me a FB msg on Sunday morning saying her phone was dead.  I went looking for her and found her at the friend's house she's not allowed to go to.  I took her home and things were normal.  A few hours later, about 1:30, I went to pick my mom up and take her shopping.  She lives 20 minutes away from me.  We stopped to get gas and my DD's friend texted me and told me she had taken another overdose.  The friend did not know when, of what or anything.  DD was home with my other daughter who is 20 and she was not answering the phone, I'm 20 minutes away, so I called 911 and sent them to the house.  Then I rushed home.

When I got home EMS was at the house and DD was not cooperating she was hysterical, crying etc.  They managed to get her in the ambulance and off we went to the ER. She refused charcoal in the ambulance.  They threatened her with a nasogastric tube in the ER and so she agreed to drink it, then she ended up refusing again so in went the NG tube amidst lots of screaming, gagging, and swearing.  She had a very matter of fact nurse taking care of her and I really liked him.  After the first dose of charcoal, she kept blowing her nose and gagging and she manged to get the tube most of the way out, they of course put it right back in.  He told her "if you keep doing that its going to come out again"  she said "good I want it to" and the nurse said " and I will keep putting it back in, over and over again all night long if I have to". 

She would not tell us what time she took it.  All we had to go on was when the friend texted me.  The levels in the blood and toxicity are based partly on time of ingestion and she made it really difficult to make treatment decisions.  Her levels ended up coming back toxic, so off she went by ambulance to a pediatric ICU 3 hours away.  I followed in my car.  We spent Sunday night in the ICU while they gave her the antidote, Acetylcysteine.  She was medically cleared yesterday afternoon, she shows no signs of liver damage.  Now she is hospitalized again of course at a Psych hospital.  Also 3 hours away. 

I got her settled in and I came home, got home late last night.  I am so conflicted, my feelings are in turmoil.  I don't even want to see her right now, I am so angry.  And that's all mixed up with guilt over leaving the Tylenol unlocked long enough for her to snatch it.  Then my feelings of how much I love her and how broken my heart is for her, how much I want to help her.  I'm scared about what might happen now. 

This most likely means residential treatment for her.  Home is just not safe for her.  That is such a loaded statement. 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

Elbry

How sorry I am to read your post. It brings back memories for me... .my dd also likes to take tylenol. I know right now you need some time to take this all in and recover. Your dd is in hospital now so take time for yourself. Don't make any sudden decisions. Don't beat yourself up either. Your dd could have gotten the meds from a hundred different places. She could have got from a friends house or bought it at the store.

What was th trigger this time? or is this a pattern your dd is in and can't break? Was a friend involved? Usually my dd does these kind of things to try and get a friend back or to create a new friendship.

What is the next step? The H will evaluate her? Change meds? I think if she has a P you should involve him/her in any med changes. They changed my dd17 meds this past summer and it has taken months to repair. She is only now returning to a stable state. How do you feel about her going to RTC? Will you have time to investigate it before sending her?

I am sending you a big hug today... .I know days like this it is hard to be hopeful but please try.

[lever.]

I, too have been there Elbry-several times. My daughter is 34 now and this hasn't happened for about 9 years. It was a regular occurrence at one time -so do hold on to hope.

I hope you are able to find the very best treatment for her.

I do remember having those mixed feelings of guilt,anger and distress 

[mama72]

My heart hurts for you, Elbry. You have so many big decisions to make, I hope you have some support and are able to get some rest. I said a prayer for you.

[raytamtay3]

I'm so sorry Elbry.  :'(

[tristesse]

Oh Elbry, I am so sorry that you are dealing with this.

My heart hurts for you and for your DD. Hang in there the best that you can, and I am thinking of and praying for you and your family.

[SeaSprite]

I'm so sorry Elbry... .

It isn't that home isn't safe for her, but she isn't safe for home.

I hope she can get the help she needs, and you too.

[pessim-optimist]

... .I am so conflicted, my feelings are in turmoil.  I don't even want to see her right now, I am so angry.  And that's all mixed up with guilt over leaving the Tylenol unlocked long enough for her to snatch it.  Then my feelings of how much I love her and how broken my heart is for her, how much I want to help her.  I'm scared about what might happen now. 

This most likely means residential treatment for her.  Home is just not safe for her.  That is such a loaded statement. 

Dear Elbry, I am so sorry, so much stress, you must be exhausted... . 

I am breathing a sigh of relief with you that your dd is safe for now.

Your conflicted feelings are understandable. And the fact that you don't feel like going to see her right now might be a good thing - some facilities don't want loved ones to visit or pay extra attention to the patient after a suicide attempt, as it might reinforce the behavior.

What would help you relax right now and restore your strength and peace?

[HealingSpirit]

Oh Elbry!

I'm so sorry your DD's illness came to this.  It is so exhausting!  I hope you are able to get a bit of much-needed rest after all that stress.  Your DD is safe for the time being.  Perhaps RTC will be a blessing, if they can help her. 

In the meantime, do take some time to take care of YOU!  My heart goes out to you.     

[Elbry]

Let me just say first of all I   our case manger!  She is so good at her job.  I did have a bunch of phone calls yesterday, but just one so far today with the CM.  She has been coordinating with the hospital and DD's providers up here.  I'm so sad today.  I can't stop crying.  DD won't be coming home for a long time and I already miss her so much.  They are recommending a DBT based residential program for adolescents.  The 2 options we have, and that her CM is looking into, are both in Portland, a 5.5-6 hour drive away from me.  If she gets released from the hospital before the RTC is ready to take her, she will go to a local Crisis Stabilization Unit until she can be transferred.   :'(

I don't know what set this one off.  I know going back to school has her amped right up.  She also has been hanging out with the group of friends that always stress her out with the drama.  It seems like every personal crisis is precipitated by some crisis with her friends.  All she will say when questioned is the old standby "I don't know'. 

It isn't that home isn't safe for her, but she isn't safe for home.

Thank-you SeaSprite, theis means a lot to me, I hadn't thought about it like this before.  And thank-you everyone for the love and hugs and encouragement.

[raytamtay3]

I just wanted to say that as hard as I know it is to be away from our kids, sometimes we have to try everything we possibly can to protect them from themselves. And I know that the situation with my DD and the RTC she is at right now only adds agnst to your situation of yours going to one, but please know that sometimes it's just trial and error. So hopefully my situation will help others to know what to look out for, etc.  The main thing is she will be safe. She will be taught coping skills. She will get on medication that will help regulate her and enable her to come home to you and to make her feel better. She knows you love her. Like mine knows I love her. Otherwise we wouldn't be so invested in getting them help. So many kids are not as fortunate to have such loving and caring parents.  Take care of yourself. We are all here for you through this difficult time. Keep the faith. 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

Elbry

Can you do something for yourself today? Can you go get your nails or hair done? Take the day off today from your worries and do something for you. Get out of the house and meet a friend for lunch. You need to take care of yourself.

I hope your dd find help at RTC... .I feel right before my dd was admitted she knew she needed help and was reaching out anyway she could by overdosing. I feel when they are in this pattern of hurting themselves there is nothing we can do... .the cycle needs to be broken and I think a more intensive approach to care is needed. I hope this stabilizing her and she can work on her issues.

[PaulaJeanne]

Elbry,

That's such exciting news- a DBT based residential treatment program for adolescents! I would have sent my dd anywhere for that!

When I read your story it brought back so many memories for me,especially the story you told about the charcoal drink/struggle. I went through much of what you went through and felt so conflicted when I sent my dd away. But it was something we both needed at the time.

Keep us informed on how this works out. I couldn't find a program like that so I sent my dd to a drug rehab RTC. She's 21 now and in outpatient DBT, living in a basement apartment in my house & working.

[SeaSprite]

Elbry, I am so glad to hear you are getting help for your daughter. My experience with mental health resources for a minor has been frustrating, it is wonderful that you have a good CM and there is a plan forming!

I hope it helps her.

This illness is just... .horrible.

And do take care of yourself, if at all possible to get out of the house with a friend or something. Exercise, fresh air, a glass of wine with a friend, maybe go to a movie? Guardians of the Galaxy was a good distraction for me recently. 

Fingers crossed for you and your daughter.

[theplotthickens]

I can relate to feeling bad about not being able to keep my daughter safe.  Before she had the right diagnosis and meds, she was so suicidal and self-injurious.  She was not safe without being on suicide watch. 

The only way I could keep her safe was if I never went to sleep and had a 24 hour staff watching cameras everywhere in the house. 

[loveandcare]

I know just how you feel, and it's horrible! Our DD was in a facility only and hour away, yet it may have been the other side of the world in terms of my emotional pain.l I felt so useless because as a Mom, I had always been able to fx things. And it hurt that our home and our love for her wasn't enough to stop her trying to kill herself. Selfishly, if I'm honest, I also thought of it as "her love for me wasn't enough to make her want to live"... .it was an awful feeling... .I felt so lost and helpless. So, my heart goes out to you because I can empathise - I'm sure everyone here can - with just how tyou are feeling.   

At the hospital a wonderful nurse told me that I was being a fantastic Mom for bringing her in because it was what she needed. And you are being a fantastic Mom for doing this. I know it hurts, but you are putting your DDs health and safety above everything, and what greater a love can we show as Moms?  

[Elbry]

I just   you all!    Your encouragement and understanding mean so much. 

So Friday I drove the 3 hours to the hospital for a team meeting and I stayed the weekend down there because there was talk of discharging her on Monday. I just got home at 4:00 Monday afternoon, it's been a roller coaster as usual and I am exhausted.  The team meeting was awful.  DD's T was on speaker phone, and it was me, DD, her in-patient clinician, her in-pt Psychiatrist and the Psychiatrist who was about to take over her care because one was going off service that night and a new one was coming on.  The P in charge at the time, was ready to send DD home.  She was 100% against residential, and felt that DD just needed to learn to be safe at home.  I was in a panic.  While I agree she does need to learn to be safe at home, she certainly is NOT right now.  The T is on the phone insisting we have tried everything else and she needs a RTC, the P was like "Ya I talked to her med manager this morning and she was very insistent about residential too but she doesn't need it".  She has known my DD for 4 days, these people have known her for months and years!  How could she be so dismissive of their opinions?  So I'm crying, telling them she can't come home, DD is smirking and laughing and the P is just telling us we need to communicate more and work on that over the weekend and she can come home on Monday.  Then the other P, who has been quietly observing the whole thing, leans over and says to me, "let's just see.  You will find MY threshold for recommending residential is very different".   I could have hugged him!

So I left the meeting, went outside and immediately called the T and said ok what do we do?  We made a plan to just ignore what the hospital wants to do and have her case manger start the referral anyway.  Then we discussed the T calling a local Crisis Unit and getting a bed arranged for DD so that if the hospital did indeed discharge her I could drive her straight from the hospital to the CCSU.  The plan being for her to stay in the CCSU until she gets a bed in a RTC.   

So that was Friday.  Saturday I tried to talk with DD and got no where, the same I don't knows or I'm not talking about it, I had always gotten from her.  Then Sunday, for some reason, she talked to me.  Ripped my heart from my body, shredded it, and stuffed it bleeding back into the gaping maw that was my chest.  Basically, she feels it should be her choice to end her life because it is her life and she is suffering.  She is ill, mentally ill, and she said just because we can't see her suffering or measure it doesn't mean it isn't real suffering.  She said if she had cancer and was dying, and was just suffering pain every day I would want her pain to end and that this is the exact same thing to her, she just wants her pain to end.  She has no hope of recovery, no hope of ever getting better.  I tried to tell her it can get better, it does get better and she just said "no mom, it doesn't.  It gets better briefly and then it comes back even worse.  We have tried everything and it keeps coming back. I shouldn't be forced to live suffering like this."  So she sees it as right to die, Euthanasia, whatever.  I cried, she cried it was a very tough, difficult conversation, and I am so glad we had it.

So today I go to the hospital, we go in to meet with the clinician and the P, the new one that came on over the weekend.  He IS recommending a RTC, he does NOT want her coming home at all and he is keeping her in the hospital. He also called her on her behavior in the meeting, the smirking and laughing.  He said he knows sometimes people do that if they are nervous but he could tell she was enjoying what was going on.  Finally!  Someone is SEEING her, really seeing her, not just the act she puts on.  So the plan, with the support of the hospital, is to keep her in the hospital for awhile.  Work on the referral process to a RTC (pray she gets in) and if it takes a long time and she is super safe, transfer her to the CCSU as needed.  AND, when he asked her if she was safe to go home, she said NO!  I almost fell over.  It's huge for her to actually be honest about that. 

So Friday my anxiety was through the roof, Saturday was frustrating, Sunday was gut-wrenchingly painful and today I feel a lot of relief.  I feel like we are on track. 

[SeaSprite]

Thank goodness for a psych with some sense! I want to strangle the other p, what was she thinking?

I'm glad things are moving in a positive direction.



Good for you! Your d may not know it, but she's lucky to have you.

[jellibeans]

Desr elbry

What a time you have been through... .please take care of your self... .don't forget that. I am happy to read that things are going in the right direction. I am so sorry your dd has no hope for the future. hang in there... .sending a hug your way 

[HealingSpirit]

So Friday my anxiety was through the roof, Saturday was frustrating, Sunday was gut-wrenchingly painful and today I feel a lot of relief.  I feel like we are on track. 

WHEW!  I feel dizzy from the roller coaster ride you've just described. I am soo relieved it is all working out. I'm so sad for your DD's awful pain though. My heart aches for her. And you too!

Time to take a bubble bath with a nice glass of wine.

[pessim-optimist]

That sounds very hopeful! Good psychiatrist, who seems to know what he is doing.

I second that bubble bath, glass of wine or any combination of things that will make you happy and help you relax. You've been through the wringer... .

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Elbry]

I talked to DD last night and she is not doing well at all.  She was crying the whole time we talked and she didn't even want to talk to me.  She is not going to groups or participating in treatment and is refusing visitors.  I think in some ways it's a good thing because this new P really seems to have her number, and she is starting to show them her true colors.  In the past, she has always been the model patient, because she wanted to come home.  Now she is not even trying because she knows she is going to a RTC and she told me "what's the point?"  I told her the point is to get better and she just cried and said "I don't get better mom".  So ya, it's good they are seeing how much she needs help, but it is bad that she is not participating in treatment. 

She also yelled and cried about her Dad calling her the night before.  We split up when she was 3 and he has been pretty much absent from her life since then.  He made no effort to see his kids, I took them to see him a few times but he moved around a lot so it was hard.  She has so much anger over this.  Also, this call is the first he made since the overdose so she was like why is he calling now?  He didn't care last week.    I don't speak ill of him to the girls, I have always been very careful of that, but he makes it difficult to defend him, or to explain his actions.  I just don't have answers sometimes for what he does.

You all are right about me taking care of myself.  I am so bad at that.  My husband, my T and my P all tell me all the time how much I need to take care of me.  They are worried I am going to break.  They say if I don't take care of me, I won't be around to take care of everyone else.  I don't know how though.  It seems like I am always putting out fires, one crisis after another.  Plus I am raising my 4 yr-old grandson and he has behavior problems and takes a lot of attention.  I am also the president of a small non-profit.  This weekend is our yearly event and I have SO much to get done.  Then my friend decides on a whim to come up from Florida and wants me to drive 3 hours to meet her for dinner.  Today.  I found out she was coming yesterday.  I just can't do it.  So we have been friends since we were 12 and she is mad at me and not speaking to me right now.  So when and how do I take care of me?

I am so sad, I miss my DD so much already and it's only been a week and a half.  She's sick and I can't help her.  How horrible does that make a mother feel?  This illness is so devastating on so many levels.  Mentally, Physically, Emotionally, Socially... .I think it hits them all.  It really rips up families.  I'm still crying at the drop of a hat, when I think about how much pain she is in.   :'(

[js friend]

Elbry im not sure that i would be still  standing myself with the  rollercoaster you have recently been on...

Its always hard to begin  delegating to others around us when we have always done it ourselves for so long but i think that now may be the time to begin doing  so otherwise you will running  yourself ragged and then you wont be any good to anyone for a while... .

and your friend... .has she any idea what you have been going through with your dd?

[raytamtay3]

Elbry - I am so happy you are getting your DD the help she so desperately needs. I was in tears reading your struggle and now your triumph! Yeah! Progress!

It's gonna be a bumpy road. And you already know that. You are doing great! And I am so proud of your DD for admitting she needs the help. Maybe not literally, but by saying there is no point to anything and that she wants to die! WOW - right there said it all and says how much she needs this! Kuddos mom! I'm here for you as I too am in the midst of this hell. But we have to keep faith that things will improve. It may take a while, but we will all get there some day! I just know it! And I know our DDs are going to thank us one day which will make this all worth it!    

[Elbry]

and your friend... .has she any idea what you have been going through with your dd?

My friend has always been extremely self-centered.  She really does believe that she is so important that we all should just stop whatever is going on in our lives and go running to her on a whim.  She knows what is going on with my DD and didn't even ask how she was doing. A 6 hour drive is a lot to do spur of the moment, just for dinner, not to mention the expense which I can't afford.  I just took 2 trips in a week for DD. 

I spoke with a nurse at the hospital.  I told her DD is not doing well and she was like "that's not the story I got in report".  They don't have documented that she is refusing visitors, and they have that she is going to 50% of groups but is not participating in the ones she goes to.  They agreed that she is a good actress and puts on a nice mask that everything is fine but I told them she is not doing good.

Ray~ I am holding on to the hope that someday she will be better and she will thank me!

[Elbry]

Just wanted to give an update.  DD is still in the hospital and we are still in the process of applying to RTC.  She called me 2 days ago and we talked for quite awhile, not about anything too deep, just chatted and gossiped.  HAHA.  It was wonderful, it really made my day. The P called me yesterday I LOVE LOVE LOVE him!  He actually communicates with me! I want to keep him... .Anyway, he wanted to let me know the past few days she has done a lot better and he has had some very good sessions with her.  She told him when she first got there, up to this week she was at 100% that when she got out of the hospital, she was going to go home and kill herself. Yesterday she was at 70%.  Which is terrifying, I know, BUT at least she is telling us.  That is HUGE progress.  Clearly she can not come home, and that still breaks my heart, but it makes me so happy she is starting to talk to somebody.   

[pessim-optimist]

Thank you Elbry for keeping us posted - I am so happy for you that you were blessed with such a good Psychiatrist and that your dd is starting to own her situation and doing better!

This will be a long road, but it is SO good to see the little light at the end of the tunnel, isn't it?

Also - the fact that your dd is talking and disclosing the 100%-70% must be really validating for you - that you were doing the right thing all along wanting to keep her at the hospital and that it's the best and safest place for her, in spite of the fact that you must miss her so much... .

Keep us posted on the RTCs ok? There have been lots of other members in looking for RTC lately, I am sure they will appreciate everything you can share that you are learning in the process... .

[Elbry]

Yes it IS good to see a little bit of light!  You are also right pessim-optimist about the feelings of validation.  Even though she was smiling, laughing and DENYING ALL suicidal ideation, she was at 100% in her devious little mind.  She was planning the whole time and lying every time they would ask her.  And I knew it.  For the love of the Gods, they were barely done putting the charcoal in in the ER and she was denying being suicidal.  I mean, for all intents and purposes, she was still in the midst of the attempt and was denying it!

It's amazing what an actress and an accomplished liar she has become.  Sometimes I can tell by the shifty eyes, but honestly sometimes it gets by me.  And many times, I can tell, but no one else can.  So I stand there saying she's lying, and she screams and yells and carries on and I can't prove it so they go by what she says.  I have read stories here on the board about the same thing.  She goes on the attack so well when confronted there have been times I question my own mind, like when the Tylenol went missing.  I KNEW she had it! I knew it.  But she screamed and cried and yelled and reasoned and deflected... ."If I had it mom I would have taken it already" "what about my sister?  Maybe SHE took it"  We even tried offering her phone back if she gave it up and she just cried and said "I would if I had it, but I don't have it".  I should not have given up looking for it until I found it but I ended up wondering if I left it in the hotel or something (I had been traveling which is why it wasn't locked up).  I tore MY room apart, after I tore hers apart... .I need to learn to trust my instincts more. 

I will keep you all posted on the RTC.  Right now we are trying for Spurwink in Portland Maine.  It has an Adolescent DBT based program.  GOLD!  Her CM has been gathering all the needed documentation from all the different agencies and getting letters of recommendation from her T and P.  As far as I know, everything was ready to be mailed in today.  So it took about 10 days just to gather all the paperwork together. 

[SeaSprite]

Yay for a good psych! Good for you for trusting your instincts and pushing for help!  Your d is lucky to have you.

The lying is so hard to deal with, my d is an excellent liar as well, and there seems to be no rhyme or reason to what she lies about.

I've been working on getting to a place where I just accept that she is going to lie, and stop trying to trust her.

It's hard because trust is such a core value for me, and her lies are different than usual teenager lying, the kind I did or my older d. The lies are just a part of her, and when I sort of assume she'll lie and don't take it personally, things go better.

[HealingSpirit]

Oh Elbry!

 I'm so glad you got a great Psychiatrist AND that you found an RTC where they do DBT.  That's the best news I've heard all day!

I wish there were immediate answers for your DD's "apparent competence."  That must be the single-most difficult thing to deal with that BPD presents. Your story makes me actually glad my DD rages. At least I can see when she's dysregulated. The hiding, sneaking, planning, and lying you deal with must be so much harder to deal with!

I am encouraged that you have found her some good help.

Hang in there.