Long Term Relationships and Healing

[Hopeless777]

I separated 9mo ago from my high functioning uBPDh of 30yrs marriage. After enduring nearly all our marriage of controlling behavior and verbal & emotional abuse, I had finally decided about 10 years ago, that as soon as our children were grown, I would leave.

    The weird thing is that He often would say he wanted a divorce during the heat of his dysregulation episodes, and I. Usual codependent behavior, I'd just ignore all the vile words, and wait for it too blow over, yet this last time he said it, I surprisingly had the confidence to call him on it, and agreed, made a plan, and followed through on it, and left within 2 months.

     For me I believe I stayed all these years for 2 main reasons, I married at age 20 and was too naive to know better, always thinking if only I did this or that, I could fix him. I did that dance for 10-15 years, with minimal results. In addition we worked alternate shifts while the children were young to avoid daycare, so we rarely saw each other, so that made the occasional outbursts tolerable. When I matured and finally realized his behavior was actually abusive, I thought STILL, my maturity and medical knowledge, could fix him.

      Unfortunately once I finally really pin pointed the likely cause of his Behavior being BPD about 8 years ago, and trying all the techniques here, boundaries, SET etc, I got minimal results, but mostly hot defiance and he ramped up his dysregulation with greater intensity and frequency, to the point that, I knew it wasn't ever going to be right. Our youngest child graduated high school in 2008, and I still tried for another 5 years.

        I finally started to detach with love, about 1 year ago , and kept praying for signs, and strength to finally speak my truth, and give up on the relationship, that he frequently verbalized he no longer cared about. Well the confirmation came when he began and emotional affair that I suspect led to an sexual affair for the first time known to me, and I finally called his bluff, and told,him I planned to leave, and I did!

         He seems unphased at all by me leaving, initially he tried a smear campaign of me, and a few emails and texts, blaming me, but then, nothing, no contact, no recycle attempts, no remorse, nothing, just discarded after 30yrs of marriage.

          I see him at church, and around and he completely ignores me, I guess I should be grateful, I have moments of nostalgia that I miss the good times, but I refuse to be drawn back in. I feel freedom, I've never experienced before, and the love and support has been overflowing, even with his Mother and Sister, we still have a healthy relationship and I see them weekly! His Mom at first seemed conflicted, but acknowledges his issues, and still hopes he we will reconcile, but she says she understands, why I had to leave once and for all.

I completely understand. I didn't know about BPD 20 years ago, I just thought she was a bit peculiar. And at that age we had D9 and S5. So no going anywheres. S and D now moved out and within less than a year I'm gone. All the leaving was forced by BPDw. Emotional affair on her part but no physical affair. My S asked me why I was even surprised seeing how she dropped everyone. Where'd he get so smart?

[Tibbles]

A great thread - I am taking a lot in and it all seems to resonate for me. I didn't realise it at the time but I did have a fantasy in my head of my marriage and I have clung to that for so many years. I just ignored the reality because I wanted  a loving marriage. I put my husband on a pedestal and only saw the good and not the bad. Taking the time to recognise it was a fantasy, that that is what I mourn has been a bit of a slap in the face for me. One that I needed. It has helped me look at myself honestly. Again something that I needed. To see the role I played in all of this, why I stayed, why I accepted do much.

I am making progress. I totally agree with the statement that our lives have completely changed. The family unit and all its experiences have gone. When I see older couples together I now wish I had something like that, I no longer wish I had that with my husband because that never existed in the first place. Xmas is coming again and I don't fear it, I accept I will feel a bit lost and that is OK. Birthdays, I still mourn the fact that the kids have gone NC and he is completely out of their lives. But now I acknowledge that is my issue, not theirs. Socially I feel awkward as I tied my identity totally with my ex. It is scary and frightening to go to things alone, but I go. I don't enjoy social gatherings at all but my confidence will increase the more I go.

I've set some goals, and have found you are right Reforming - I do function better with a goal to work towards. So I've begun to give my life direction and purpose again. While I still have down days, I am having good days too and life generally seems more positive and hopeful. What I value more than anything is the sense of peace I am getting into my life.

[Dutched]

Hi Reforming and all,

Rereading my journals since I met her (also a high functioning) when I was 20 yrs. old, helped me a lot. I am pretty much the guy when I met her when I was 20 yrs. old., the (fighting) spirit, boundaries, life standards, the goals once set and accomplished, etc. After she left I had intense (and sometimes painful) talks with my psychologist, and no I never was even in a sense co-dependent or so.  

During my life it was very important to me to continuesly develop myself, special mentally in order to understand interpersonal dynamics (maybe sub conscious also related to the r/s). So the sometimes very, very big eye openers of Steven Covey, Zig Ziglar, John Carver, etc. made me very aware of my own view of life, my weaknesses and strengths. Maybe also the reason that I found out about BPD already during the r/s and was able to minimize outbursts to once a yr.

Never the less, she couldn’t take my spirit (oh yes, she tried and tried the last years), my dreams and goals she took.

As finances are mentioned. Well, the mortgage was paid of, so indeed a financial secure retirement. Different now, a new mortgage as I had to compensate 50%. As I can’t compensate my retirement funds anymore, the house must be sold by then in order to have sufficient funds.

Something else for me is that my D, who left with her mom, totally cut me of, no contact anymore. In fact the same as her mother did when she was 18 yrs and cut off her parents for a 9 yrs.

Although all happened several yrs. ago now, that is an additional parallel grieve to overcome.

Everyone in this topics resonates the fact that our family is no more and that our future is different. Different because of the emotional luggage we still carry, different as rebuilding other goals are indeed a challenge. As you also mentioned, as one needs to step outside ones comfort zones and nearly 4 yrs. since she left, I walked that path.

Difficult, rewarding, joyful and of course set backs, so as life in general is.

Longing for another r/s, or to be in an r/s?

So, as clairdair and Tibbles also mentioned, the “encouraging” words of others to move on (meaning it is about time to find a girl friend), are overrated.  

Further for us, as father/mother, it is not all about us. It is definitively also about the life long (emotional) consequences for our children too (in a different topic I once referred to mrs. Wallerstein about the impact).

My S (who lives with me) is already punished (yes, that is how he feels it, despite the fact I know that exw is full of shame to overcome that little molehill!) twice by his mom, as she didn’t attend his graduation…

These consequences resonates throughout our future as we have to deal with ex partners that continue to have an impact on our kids, time after time “they” have a new trick. Emotionally it affect us too, despite all our “growth” and detachment from the ex, as it are our kids that were hurt (again).

[Reforming]

Hi JohnLove,

It sounds like you've been through an awful lot and you've dealt with amazingly well. I take my hat off to you  

This is a great place for support and learning and the wisdom and shared experiences of other members has been enormous help to me over the last year and a half.

Clairdair I lived for years with the fantasy that if I loved my ex enough and stuck with her and the relationship, that she could be healed or transformed into the good partner that I fell in love with. I was never living in the present or facing reality, but some imaginary future where everything would be ok.

Facing the reality that I was powerless to change her (or anyone else) apart from myself was something i was wasn't willing to accept, until the very end.

I still grieve for the loss of my relationship. Despite she the cruel things that she did, she was my best friend and my family for a large part of my life. However when I really scrutinise the reality of my time with her I see so much sadness and hurt.

Being on my own was very tough initially, but though I definitely feel lonely at times I'm pretty comfortable spending time on my own.  I am quite good at talking to strangers (it's part of my job spec), but I felt very vulnerable in family gatherings, I was so accustomed to working as a team and I miss that support. I'm working to readjust and I'm definitely getting better

The disorder is sad and terrible and I do feel genuinely sorry for my ex, but while this might sound harsh she made choices.

She chose to not try and heal and she chose to damage and hurt people who treated her with love and loyalty.

I realise that even if she tried to heal the outcome might have been the same, but I believe that I was at least worth that effort. We all are.

I made lots of mistakes. I was naive and ignorant of the disorder, I was unwilling to confront my issues and behaviour to the extent that I consistently focussed on fixing her rather than fixing myself. And I was narcissistic enough to believe that I had the power fix someone else. I couldn't, nobody can and over time my powerlessness gradually turned into despair and hopelessness and our relationship became a slow, deadly bleed.

I've done a lot reading and research since then and now I'm working on myself - schema therapy - because I realise that the issues that drew to me to my ex and kept me there so long are mine and mine alone.

I'm not discounting her behaviour or excusing it - she made her choices and despite the disorder she is still responsible for her behaviour, but she's gone now and my focus is to get the best out of my life and me. There is no miracle cure, but positive change is definitely possible. I am intent on not finding myself in another destructive relationship, which is all to easy as some of the other members can attest to.

Tibbles my ex used to say that I put her on a pedestal and she was right. I believed then you needed to focus on the good and not the bad, that love would conquer all. Over time I got less and less from her and I got angrier and sadder. I'm trying to be much more honest with myself now and work on the reasons for staying so long in a relationship where my needs were unmet.

I found the first couple of Christmases very hard. I love my family, but they couldn't understand what I was going through. It's not their fault and being surrounded by married siblings and friends with children was difficult. The last few years of my relationship had a damaging effect on my relationship with my family and I've worked to rebuild it since then. It's getting better

Dutched

I could never pretend to understand your experience or your grief. Nobody can...

On top of everything else you've had to deal with it's terribly sad that you're relationship with your daughter has been damaged.

All I can say is that I hope it recovers and there is still time for it to heal.

Unlike most of the other posters here I never had children so I've escaped the pain of limited contact and the knowledge that they are suffering too.

I can't imagine what it must be like to watch your children suffer, but I think Tibbles is right, that is their pain not yours and the best and worst lessons I learned from my parents were from what they did, from their example. Actions speak louder than words.

You can change what's happened and take their pain away. All you can do is set the best example and trust them live their lives. I'm not pretending it's easy, but one of the biggest lesson I've learned is that you cannot fix anybody else.

It sounds like you have set a good example for them by living well and that's the best gift you can give them. Hopefully in time your daughter will see that and you'll get a chance to rebuild your relationship. Your grief is completely understandable but least those children will always be part of your life. At times I feel a deep sadness that I have no children and that it is now unlikely that I ever will.

You've obviously done a lot of work on yourself. Your self awareness, your understanding of the disorder and your knowledge of the skills that can improve these types of relationships.

I knew nothing of the disorder until after we separated and I believed that the udBPDex's behaviour was caused by a family history of Bipolar, her childhood sexual abuse and her first boyfriend's suicide.

But I was drawn to her and stayed partly because I believed that if I could unlock her, solve the puzzle that she could be healed and become the good partner that I loved.

2010 has written some great posts - you've probably already read them but this one struck a particular chord with me.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=161524.msg1548981#msg1548981

"The lonely child is "understanding driven" and gets drawn into the Borderline acting out. The lonely child now has a mystery- the Borderline dilemma of "who am I?" This is very likely the same way that the lonely child came into existence as an “understanding driven” child. Especially when he questioned the motives of his earliest attachments during infancy and adolescence.

The lonely child *understands* the need to be held, loved and understood – because that’s what he longs for in others. The lonely child feels that in order to deal with acting out of the Borderline- the lonely child must project the aura of grace, compassion and understanding upon the Borderline and also guide, teach and show the way- because after all, that’s what the lonely child would want someone to do for him. There was a large reason that the initial mirroring (of this fixer /rescuer ego) worked so well in the idealization stage- the relationship really WAS the projection of lonely child that was mirrored, not the deficient ego of the Borderline.

In the "upside down" world of the Borderline, the lonely child is the perfect attachment to fuse to and the hypersensitive Borderline is the perfect mystery for the lonely child to try to understand.  This is the reactivation of a childhood dynamic- that forms a needy bond."  

As far as the encouraging words of others and moving on goes.

Feck em.

I found this difficult and insensitive too, but I've learned to ignore it and realise that they simply don't understand the dynamics of these relationships. How can you unless you have actually lived it?

We all deserve the time to grieve on our own schedule and even outside the wonderful world of PD far too many people jump from one bad relationship into another, endlessly repeating the same mistakes with disastrous results.

Apologies for the long post and good luck to everyone

Reforming

[Dutched]

Seems we keep continuing, could talk forever 

On this section of the Board we all have been in a comparable situation. Comparable situations that ended leaving us to questioning of ourselves, maybe even despite the question of who in fact pulled the plug out.

Our experiences are similar, processing is indeed an individual task. As you say Reforming, although we were not in each others shoes, I feel yours and others pain as our experiences were similar, above devastating and beyond believe.

Above all, as Reforming nailed it, no one really understands the dynamics of these relationships unless you lived it.

The one closed to you is gone, you are now on your own. So secure (I immediately took precautions to secure that, if interested see some older posts of my) and take the initiative to tighten/renew bonds with family/friends, it is so important to keep that part of your social circle as a base (special it is now for your own future!). A base that is known and within your comfort zone (even opportunity to meet new people already).

Oh yes, I experienced it sometimes difficult to attend alone and stay for hours on birthday parties full of couples. I managed, socialized as in old days and just left earlier, but I showed my face!

Later there is plenty of time to extend ones circle. Start for example to visit a local/regional fair and talk with the stand owner, they love to tell, you will love it to hear and socialize, step by step.

Although we will alter our life, our ballast tanks holds a residue (the longing for our ex, relationship, family and what could have been). Remains that can’t be removed. Leave it, it makes no sense to put any effort at all to remove the last bit. Eventually nasty sometimes, maybe even painful again, as it shakes on our waves of life.

As the healthy parent, despite all our flaws, please keep on guard. See for example postings of Tausk (with young kids) or as I earlier described from my experiences. Be there and show a healthy way of interaction. As Hopeles7 also mention, kids see and notice the difference! Point is the ex is their parent too, so they have their loyalty!

You are right Reforming that as a parent we can’t take their pain away. I didn’t, but was their when he needed to process it, by showing, validating, talking, talking and love. And, yes, by really arguing (S is 19 now) which we ended in a mature and healthy way, even hugging as we still do.     

I am very sorry for you Reforming that probably your wish for children can’t be fulfilled any more! Personally I really, really enjoyed having them (yeah, sometimes wishing I had an on/off switch too  ), to see them grow, to play with them, our interactions, their development into a beautiful person. Despite now the situation with my D.

As mentioned in this post too, and I put it just blunt, yes strong scientific indications are that “it” runs in families. Seems my D is showing strong traits as 3rd generation. 1 sister of her mother (exw) was treated for 10-15 yrs by a psychologist, is in a long r/s, 2 kids with Asperger, but switching jobs and even professions more tha can be counted on 2 hands. Another aunt that hit rock bottom in midlife and found relieve as being a “spiritual guided hand”…  A grandma, cold as ice, which she showed profoundly when exw left in her outburst their parents. Grandma didn’t took any effort to reconcile at all, she stated that she would never be the 1st one to initiate contact.

Anyway a link to a NIH manuscript related to kids of Borderline mothers.

  www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3268672/

I couldn’t agree more to keep working on yourself, really take your time to heal and set new goals and do not jump, for the sake of loneliness and to “move on”, into another r/s.

Besides that… it seems (because of all these years) I spot BPD characteristics by looking into eyes as I discovered back in 2007 during a triad of family, professionals and BPDs. The ones with BPD I picked.

For now good luck to all, stay strong as we are strong!

And really thanks for being so open and the constructiveness of the input! 

[Hopeless777]

Had to see her at my deposition today. Of course she arrived all decked out. Three hours of grilling, hour ride home, TV dinner, and now the sobbing begins. 28 year relationship and she sits across the table cold. I don't really consider it breaking NC, but I feel destroyed by the experience, and have mediation next week. I don't know how to move on its all so painful. I'm a mess again.

[clairedair]

Hi Hopeless777,

I am sorry to hear that you have had such a difficult experience.  No wonder you feel destroyed.  The bible quote you use say something about being 'swiped away' and that was often how it felt to me - that our marriage had just been swept away; that I had just been swept away.  It felt as if it couldn't have meant anything if it could be discarded with such speed and force.

It may not feel like it right now, but please know that her behaviours are not a reflection on your worth nor on the value of your marriage. 

My exH has been extremely cold but then will talk about how important the marriage was - it's inconsistent because it depends on how he feels at the time.  So confusing and heartbreaking to deal with.  I know other couples who split after a long time but they have generally 'fallen out of love' or 'grown apart' and it's been a slow slide.  It's sad but these couples seem to be able to manage the separation and divorce because it's almost mutual.  Our situations are very different.   

What can you do to prepare yourself for the mediation next week?  Are there ways to build resilience before then so that you are not brought down even further?  Do you have a T or someone else that you can seek support from beforehand and also after?

take care,

Claire

[Dutched]

Hi Hopeless777

I didn’t realise your in the negotiation stage.

Please watch your back, I have been there!

As you noticed already, she is cold as ice. It is business! NO love, NO guilt!.

But for her to you… YES, please… for the sake of old times! Don’t let her fool you!

I “agreed” mediation (my lawyer was stand by already), delayed session 2 with 2 months and ended it after an hour on purpose (gave me extra months to prepare).

To be short, I have seen an total unrecognisable exw during the sessions, however trying to influence the mediator (as I found out before session 2, she mailed him, playing the victim…).

As clairedair mention, our situation is very different!   

So, you need a careful planned strategy.

Do all you can to secure YOUR interests, it’s for YOU, YOUR future!

For her it is an emotional ride too (remember YOU are the source of all evil!) so she will act dissociative!   

I suggest to jump over to the Legal Board. Maybe some of my older posts can be of any help too

[Reforming]

Hi Hopeless

My heart goes out to you.

Contact of any type can be so devastating. It's so brutal seeing someone that you trusted more than anyone in the world for a huge part of your life seemingly transformed into a cold enemy.

It's totally understandable that you feel distraught. Try to be kind to yourself and not judge yourself for how you're feeling.

I would say that this isn't unique to BPD. Many divorces turn bitter when it comes down to the nitty gritty of separation, but that doesn't make it any easier to go through.

It's a horrible process, but it will end and you will feel better.

Clair and Dutched have offered good advice.

Have you got anyone else that you can talk to for support?

We're all here for you.

Reforming

[Hopeless777]

Hi Hopeless

My heart goes out to you.

Contact of any type can be so devastating. It's so brutal seeing someone that you trusted more than anyone in the world for a huge part of your life seemingly transformed into a cold enemy.

It's totally understandable that you feel distraught. Try to be kind to yourself and not judge yourself for how you're feeling.

I would say that this isn't unique to BPD. Many divorces turn bitter when it comes down to the nitty gritty of separation, but that doesn't make it any easier to go through.

It's a horrible process, but it will end and you will feel better.

Clair and Dutched have offered good advice.

Have you got anyone else that you can talk to for support?

We're all here for you.

Reforming

Yes I have a few people that care about me. It's just so hard seeing the love of your life not even recognizing your existence after 28 years. And now I have to repeat, repeat, repeat during the proceedings. I'm just emotionally wasting away.  I spent all day in bed with my pity party. Now I understand so much more of the Bible: better is the day of ones death than the day of life Ecclesiastes 7:1 sorry to me depressing, I just can't get past this never ending grief.

[clairedair]

Hi Hopeless777

no need to apologise for 'being depressing' - your reaction to such difficult events seems entirely appropriate to me.

Ecclesiastes also says, there is a time for everything, including a time to grieve and a time to heal.  I resented having to grieve and heal when I felt that I was 'owed' some happiness for having tried so hard but it was necessary and it's still a process even now (just not as difficult as it was at first).  I also resented that he didn't seem to need to do this and 'walked off into the sunset' but it has not all worked out for him - it just looked that way for a while. 

My heart and head struggled so much it all added to the exhaustion.  I knew that his behaviour towards me was not really about me but my heart felt utterly rejected and that he had just dropped me without a second's thought and moved on.  Reformed used the word 'brutal' and I'd agree with that sentiment.  It's really hard to explain those feelings to someone who has not been through it.

If you can, keep posting and let us know how you are getting on. 

take care,

Claire

[mywifecrazy]

I agree with Claire's sentiments 100%. Don't beat yourself up Hopeless. You must go through the grief and pain to fully recover. If you don't that pain and grief will be buried within you and keep you stuck for a long time. Embrace your feelings and look to God to see you through. The following verses mean a lot to me as they were a source of comfort in my darkest hour:

And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you. To him be the dominion forever and ever. Amen. (‭1 Peter‬ ‭5‬:‭10-11‬ ESV)

Restore our fortunes, Lord , as streams renew the desert. Those who plant in tears will harvest with shouts of joy.

Psalms (126:4-5 NLT)

Hang in there brother you are not alone!

MWC... .

[Tibbles]

Hi Hopeless

My heart goes out to you, having to go through this. I'm thinking having to go through this will make everything fresh again for you, that you will have to look that pain in the face and feel the pain of it all again. As horrible as it is, once it is done you will have healed that little bit more. Keep posting so we know how you are going. Sending lots of love and hugs x x x x x x x

[Hopeless777]

Thanks EVERYONE,

Met with my P and then my T today. They said my reactions were normal... .oh boy I feel better now! Anyways, I really appreciate all your support as I get ready for a long day of mediation on September 30. Kind of scares me a bit because I could never understand her anyway in the end on a good day. Perhaps the Mediator and lawyers will be able to talk sense into her. Thanks for all you prayers and support. Without you all I'd be done for sure.

Hopeless777

P.S.:  Someday I hope to be able to change my screen name. Just not there yet.

[Hopeless777]

Thanks EVERYONE,

Met with my P and then my T today. They said my reactions were normal... .oh boy I feel better now! Anyways, I really appreciate all your support as I get ready for a long day of mediation on September 30. Kind of scares me a bit because I could never understand her anyway in the end on a good day. Perhaps the Mediator and lawyers will be able to talk sense into her. Thanks for all you prayers and support. Without you all I'd be done for sure.

Hopeless777

P.S.:  Someday I hope to be able to change my screen name. Just not there yet.

Mediation is Tuesday. She's made some overtures at reconciliation. That will be first on the list. I'm not optimistic though. 18 years together an she sues me. Go figure... .I give up.