14yo's 3rd psych unit stay - validation

[jessmomof8]

My 14yo was re-admitted for suicidal ideation last Monday night.  This is her 3rd stay since the beginning of May.  She has literally been admitted every 60 days.  First time was an actual suicide attempt, the second and third were ideation.  Before she attempted in May, I had no idea she was in this much distress.  She's always been a quiet and passive child, good sense of humor and pleasant to be around for the most part.  In between her hospital stays she's been the same for the most part.  Sometimes I can see the stress building, but even the night that she attempted while we were sitting in the ER waiting for the consult to see about her being admitted to the psych unit, we were sitting there just chatting about the show we were watching on TV like nothing had happened.  And nothing had happened earlier that day to bring on the attempt.  She does not tell me ever that she wants to hurt herself.  She had been cutting for at least a year before the attempt, her scars attest to that.  I had no idea.

The doc told me yesterday that she would probably go home today. I talked to the nurse at the psych unit this morning, she said she wasn't coming home today because she told the doc this morning that she was still thinking about wanting to hurt herself.  I asked the nurse how she's been.  She said "Well, that's the thing she's been pleasant, cooperative, has a bright affect... ."  This is the same that they've seen the last 2 times that she's been there as well, but they are seeing it too - this is how she is at home!  This is why I can never tell how she's doing and am caught off guard when she tells her therapist that she's feeling suicidal again.  It's so frustrating.  I feel like her therapist believes everything she tells him about me.  She's told him in the past that she feels like she can't tell me anything because I'll start yelling and get all upset.  I don't know where she got that idea from.  I have 2 girls older than her and 2 kids younger than her.  When ANY of them have anything important to tell me, I may get upset because my child is in so much pain, but I don't yell at them.  I am not a monster.  Sometimes I feel like I don't even know her, like this pleasant persona that she has is just some facade.

So, so, so frustrating.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lever.]

This is difficult Jess.

Many of us have been in this position where the therapist seems to completely buy into the young person's skewed perceptions and we are then blamed for the difficulties (there is a whole chapter in Valerie Porr's book on this).

What is aslo very difficult is that her presentation does not match her actions or the thoughts which she is expressing.

I would bring this out into the open with both your daughter and the staff.(SET)

ie"I want you to be at home and to support you.

I am sorry that you feel so upset that you are harming yourself

What makes me very uneasy is that you act as if everything is fine, sitting looking happy, watching TV and talk about/plan suicide at the same time. This makes me worried about keeping you safe. If you aren't able to tell me when you are upset I have no way of knowing and helping you"

I would say this in front of staff, therapists etc.

She sounds quite unpredictable and her safety has to come first.

[mama72]

Welcome, jess!

I can completely relate to your story, especially about the monster our pwBPD make us out to be.

On the ambulance ride to the hospital after my dd 17 first suicide attempt, she always recalls that I "was mad at her and yelling at her". Couldn't be farther from the truth. I was I  tears, holding her hand, telling her we would get her help. But, her father, my ex, she rebels as being loving. He sat there and said nothing, and if I hadn't told him to come to ER, he wouldn't have been there. Obviously I am painted black, and ex is white.

Our children with BPD are such mysteries, I wish I could figure out how dd can twist her views so drastically!

Again, welcome. The community here is wonderful and has been a great help to me on dealing with my dd.

You are not alone.

[pessim-optimist]

It must be terrifying to not have any signals from your dd that she is in distress.

In a way, it's a blessing in disguise that this was brought into the open. It is something that needs work in therapy - your dd developing skills to recognize her distress and to communicate about it, and hopefully ask for help... .

I feel like her therapist believes everything she tells him about me.  She's told him in the past that she feels like she can't tell me anything because I'll start yelling and get all upset.  I don't know where she got that idea from. I have 2 girls older than her and 2 kids younger than her.  When ANY of them have anything important to tell me, I may get upset because my child is in so much pain, but I don't yell at them.  I am not a monster.

I believe you, and your other children probably see you for what you are - a loving, concerned mom.

On the other hand - if you consider that persons w/BPD are overly sensitive AND tend to mis-perceive emotions and interpret them more negative, and aimed at them, you could see, how she may interpret your distress and worry as you being 'mad at her, and yelling' even though that's not the case... .Does that make sense? (BTW - I see a lot of young people these days using the word "yelling" referring to someone correcting or redirecting them - it's become a very confusing word to say the least).

And, she might not be able to cope with the anticipation of what she feels is you being upset with her - thereby feeling like "she can't talk to you"... .

I would look at this as your dd being different and needing a different approach than your other kids. It may feel very unnatural at first, but with some practice, it may become a second nature... .

Shari Manning in her book "Loving someone w/BPD" gives really helpful descriptions on how we can first deal with and regulate our own emotions before we talk to them, so the person w/BPD can feel accepted and supported by us.

Is that something you'd be open to trying?

[njva4]

I feel your pain, my recently diagnosed 16 year old always says she wants to kill herself she has tried overdosing 3 times only 1 of which I knew about, she was hospitalized for the one I knew about. My daughter tells counselors her version of the truth that is not true at all and makes her father and I look unfit. I make it my personal agenda to contact her counselors and teachers on a regular basis to find out what stories my daughter has come up with. I then tell them the truth on the situation. My daughter also self harms, it started out as cutting and since has moved on to burning herself. Her arms look like hamburger meat. My daughters moods can change in an instant and when she is happy I am in the habit of trying to keep her that way, and yes I am guilty of pretending all is ok. Her latest stunt is refusing to take medication . She is already skipping school and has to go in front of the truancy board soon.  i have no idea what to do either, so just know you are not alone.

[jessmomof8]

Many of us have been in this position where the therapist seems to completely buy into the young person's skewed perceptions and we are then blamed for the difficulties (there is a whole chapter in Valerie Porr's book on this).

I talked to her therapist's supervisor today and requested a new one.  I talked to her therapist later and he actually sounded relieved that I requested the change and acknowledged that he was in over his head with her.  He also agreed that it might be better for her to see a woman rather than a man.

What is aslo very difficult is that her presentation does not match her actions or the thoughts which she is expressing.

I would bring this out into the open with both your daughter and the staff.(SET)

ie"I want you to be at home and to support you.

I am sorry that you feel so upset that you are harming yourself

What makes me very uneasy is that you act as if everything is fine, sitting looking happy, watching TV and talk about/plan suicide at the same time. This makes me worried about keeping you safe. If you aren't able to tell me when you are upset I have no way of knowing and helping you"

I would say this in front of staff, therapists etc.

She sounds quite unpredictable and her safety has to come first.

I have said similar things while we were in her therapist's office.  Will wait to see how her new therapist approaches things.

[jessmomof8]

Welcome, jess!

Thanks!   

I can completely relate to your story, especially about the monster our pwBPD make us out to be.

On the ambulance ride to the hospital after my dd 17 first suicide attempt, she always recalls that I "was mad at her and yelling at her". Couldn't be farther from the truth. I was I  tears, holding her hand, telling her we would get her help. But, her father, my ex, she rebels as being loving. He sat there and said nothing, and if I hadn't told him to come to ER, he wouldn't have been there. Obviously I am painted black, and ex is white.

She told the psychiatrist at the hospital that she really wants to move into her dad's house. The place where there are no rules, where nothing is locked up, meds are not monitored, etc., etc.  Uh... .no.  Even the social worker told the doc that was not a possibility.

Our children with BPD are such mysteries, I wish I could figure out how dd can twist her views so drastically!

Again, welcome. The community here is wonderful and has been a great help to me on dealing with my dd.

You are not alone.

Thank you again.  It is such a relief just to know that we are not alone.   

[jessmomof8]

It must be terrifying to not have any signals from your dd that she is in distress.

My oldest daughter has Type 1 diabetes, I'm kind of used to not having any clue what was going on in my child's body.  At least with diabetes we could check her sugar and SEE something.  My 14yo needs some kind of meter!  Hm, maybe I'll make one with a dial, so she can "dial an emotion".    I laugh, but I'm going to help her make one and see if she'll use it.  I did find an emotions journal just before she went into the hospital.  I'm going to print out a bunch of those pages and see if she'll at least write and then share with me.  They have cute faces that you can circle or color the one that matches your mood and space to write just a sentence or two.  Thinking I might copy the faces onto pages with more space in case she wants to start writing more.

In a way, it's a blessing in disguise that this was brought into the open. It is something that needs work in therapy - your dd developing skills to recognize her distress and to communicate about it, and hopefully ask for help... .

This is my primary goal right now.

I believe you, and your other children probably see you for what you are - a loving, concerned mom.

On the other hand - if you consider that persons w/BPD are overly sensitive AND tend to mis-perceive emotions and interpret them more negative, and aimed at them, you could see, how she may interpret your distress and worry as you being 'mad at her, and yelling' even though that's not the case... .Does that make sense? (BTW - I see a lot of young people these days using the word "yelling" referring to someone correcting or redirecting them - it's become a very confusing word to say the least).

Yes, it's hard to shift my thinking, but I'm getting there.  :-/  And I do know what you mean about the definition of the word "yelling", I go back and forth in it's use myself. 

I would look at this as your dd being different and needing a different approach than your other kids. It may feel very unnatural at first, but with some practice, it may become a second nature... .

Shari Manning in her book "Loving someone w/BPD" gives really helpful descriptions on how we can first deal with and regulate our own emotions before we talk to them, so the person w/BPD can feel accepted and supported by us.

Is that something you'd be open to trying?

Yes, but I'm already hip deep in my own studies, the Stop Walking on Eggshells book and workbook and the Family Connections teleclass.  ;-)  I'll put it on my list.  The Family Connections class is going to cover that too, but I'll still check out that book for more info later.

Thank you for the reminder and the suggestions.  I'm learning quickly, but so overwhelmed and tired.  :-/

[jessmomof8]

I feel your pain, my recently diagnosed 16 year old always says she wants to kill herself she has tried overdosing 3 times only 1 of which I knew about, she was hospitalized for the one I knew about. My daughter tells counselors her version of the truth that is not true at all and makes her father and I look unfit. I make it my personal agenda to contact her counselors and teachers on a regular basis to find out what stories my daughter has come up with. I then tell them the truth on the situation. My daughter also self harms, it started out as cutting and since has moved on to burning herself. Her arms look like hamburger meat. My daughters moods can change in an instant and when she is happy I am in the habit of trying to keep her that way, and yes I am guilty of pretending all is ok. Her latest stunt is refusing to take medication . She is already skipping school and has to go in front of the truancy board soon.  i have no idea what to do either, so just know you are not alone.

Do you give her her meds every day or does she have them to take when she needs?  I still have everything locked up, so I have to get them out, give her what she needs and then she takes them in front of me.  I don't check her mouth to make sure she isn't "cheeking" them, she hasn't given me any reason to think she is.  Hugs momma! 

[pessim-optimist]

Hm, maybe I'll make one with a dial, so she can "dial an emotion".    I laugh, but I'm going to help her make one and see if she'll use it.  I did find an emotions journal just before she went into the hospital.  I'm going to print out a bunch of those pages and see if she'll at least write and then share with me.  They have cute faces that you can circle or color the one that matches your mood and space to write just a sentence or two.  Thinking I might copy the faces onto pages with more space in case she wants to start writing more.

That's an excellent idea! Another member here had success with another system: they defined what green, yellow and red meant and when asked, their dd could always tell them where she was at. And that way, if I remember that correctly, they knew w/out having to delve into the issues deeply how to support her (even if she wasn't able to talk about what exactly was wrong).

Thank you for the reminder and the suggestions.  I'm learning quickly, but so overwhelmed and tired.  :-/

Take it at your own pace, there is so much to learn, and it does take time to absorb all the info... .

[njva4]

I was  giving her pills out I have them locked away, I always checked after she put them in her mouth to make sure she swallowed them, but she refused to take them and i cant shove them down her throat so there was nothing i could do, I did tell her counselor the very next day so they know she is off of them.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jessmomof8]

That's an excellent idea! Another member here had success with another system: they defined what green, yellow and red meant and when asked, their dd could always tell them where she was at. And that way, if I remember that correctly, they knew w/out having to delve into the issues deeply how to support her (even if she wasn't able to talk about what exactly was wrong).

I like that too.  I'm thinking this exercise might help my completely overwhelmed 7 yo and 4 yo, who are learning to identify emotions and all that.  Going to have to see.  I might do colors for the littles and ask my 14yo if she wants to use the same system or if she wants to use the spinner/dial an emotion idea.  We could put colors behind the emotion on the wheel too, so that the littles have an idea of what she means.

I need some construction paper. 

[pessim-optimist]

  You are so creative! This should be fun.

Let us know how/if it works with your 14yo!

[jessmomof8]

You are so creative! This should be fun.

Let us know how/if it works with your 14yo!

I was thinking about this today while driving.  Red is my 4yo's favorite color.  I don't think I want to associate that with something bad, so I might leave the colors off and just have 3 faces for them - smilie, calm and a frown and then more options as they get older. 

[pessim-optimist]

I was thinking about this today while driving.  Red is my 4yo's favorite color.  I don't think I want to associate that with something bad, so I might leave the colors off and just have 3 faces for them - smilie, calm and a frown and then more options as they get older. 

That's a really good idea Good thinking too!

[jessmomof8]

That's a really good idea Good thinking too!

Thanks!