How to help kids with their confusion of the deceptions

[sanemom]

I am just a stepmom with three teen skids (14, 16, and 17).  Their mom is a BPD waif.  She doesn't split them; doesn't rage (except via email to my DH); but she does make lots of empty promises, creates lots of crazy stories about their dad and others and everything you can think of.  She left them with their dad when they were young, and has since come back into their life now that they are older and self-sufficient (and right after we got married).  She always had visitation, but was not religious about keeping it until I came into the picture.

Anyway, the concern I have is this--she is a VERY convincing liar.  Has fooled therapists, lawyers, etc.  At least two of the kids have expressed in counseling that "all parents lie to their children", which to me, is very sad as DH is honest to a fault, but because of BPD mom's stories, they now doubt him.  

One of the bigger examples of how it played out--a few years ago they came home from a summer visitation mad at DH for making their mom leave when they were little.  They were sure he beat her because that is what she was telling them all summer.  After a few years in the court process, we reminded them of that story and let them know how it influenced some people in the courts, and they are now believing that DH is making up that accusation that she said that (even though they were the ones reporting it to us--it is like she recreated history again for them).  She has told them all kinds of crazy stories about DH; for a while the 14 year old said he didn't believe her, but lately it is like he is starting to wonder again.  It is almost like she pulls through with her promises just enough times to keep them stringing along (most recently, she promised one of them a snake for his birthday--bought him the aquarium and bedding for it and promised him the snake the next weekend; of course, still no snake, and he has an empty aquarium in his room; the other one got a lawn mower for his birthday, but he has to keep it at her house where he is two weekends a month).

Fortunately, DH now has primary custody of two of them, and they have limited time with their mom (they are upset that they can't see her more; they don't understand why DH won't allow it, but he is worried about how well she manipulates them).  The oldest one feels like a lost cause at this point--she lives with BPD mom and is so enmeshed with BPD mom and believes her crazy stories on some level (I say that because maybe I am fooling myself, but I think on another level she knows her mom is deceptive).

Yes, we can tell them the truth about things that counter what she says, but at the same time, that probably ends up looking like a he said/she said situation "and the truth is somewhere in the middle" when it really isn't because BPD mom is so off in her delusions.  I just feel like once again, we are in a no-win situation, and since I have no idea what it is like having two parents telling me completely different stories about things, I thought I would ask you guys for advice.  I think we are doing everything we can, but I want to make sure we aren't missing something (and maybe need reassurance they will stop thinking their dad lies, too).

[PleaseValidate]

It is extremely frustrating to have a parent who lies to you. I actually think my BPDmo s empty promises were worse than any physical or sexual abuse I endured. The physical and sexual abuse were incidents that people can understand,  but almost every one I know underestimates the effect of emotional abuse.

Is there a time that the children are able to recognize she was actually lying?  Can you ask for more details and ask open ended questions to get them see how X could not have happened because. ...

In my case when my BPDmo lied about my dad, his sister would tell me the truth. She never lied to me about anything so she was very credible in my mind (still is.) Even now by using open ended questions,  she has gotten me to see that my deceased grandmother was most likely an undx BPD too. She will say things a 7 my BPDmo and all her siblings like, "I wonder why they all focus on money that way... ." I wonder why they are all so selfish and how they got that way... ." She doesn't know a lot about BPD,  but I know and agree w the points she is trying to get across.

Back then it might help if she said,  "how could your dad have beat your mom when he was in the hospital that month?" Or, "he has never beaten anyone else,  why does she say he did it to her?"

It was tough when I was a kid because I did waiver on who to believe. As an adult I know better. I hope this helps.

[sanemom]

Yes, that DOES help, and they have caught her in lies... .big ones... .I think they just try to forget, and again, she comes through enough times that it seems to keep them hooked, if that makes sense.

Most recently BPD mom took DSD to the hospital for a basic procedure and put her last name as DH's last name (she hasn't had that name legally for ten years) and put her address as DH's address.  :)H was telling me how he called the hospital and let them know that they did not have the correct information; how the hospital noted that BPD mom did indeed write that down as her information, and how they corrected the false information; we talked about how he should not be surprised by that as she is typically deceptive (gave another BIG example where she tricked DH and falsified paperwork); and DH talked about how he is concerned about how the kids are going to learn that being deceptive is ok.  What we didn't know was that DSS14 was lurking on the stairs around the corner and heard the conversation--he texted DH to please stop talking about his BPD mom.  We weren't being ugly about it really; just talking factually.  We pretty much don't talk about BPD mom at all in our house (especially around the kids) so I am sure it bothered DSS14 a lot to hear that stuff.  We left the bill with the falsified information out so DSS14 would know we weren't lying.

Looking back earlier in the conversation, I was also talking about how my DD was asking questions about her dad, and how I told her not to worry about things and just to love him, but then I said, "But I don't have to worry about my ex telling false stories about me and having to correct the information like you do."  I am sure DSS heard that, too.

Anyway, DH went to DSS14 and apologized for saying things and let him know we didn't know he was nearby.  

[PleaseValidate]

Ah yes, I remember you talking about the whole name issue. Seems to me that she may have been embarrassed and/or ashamed to not have the same name as her kids. She will be forced to get used to it eventually. Interesting that she changed her name back to maiden if she feels this way.

It makes me wonder if BPDmo is asking the kids "what is your father saying about me." Or just making general statements like "I know they talk about me all the time." This is not uncommon BPD behavior- the narcissism and all. (Because of course you have nothing better to do than to discuss her!)

Sorry to make you paranoid,  but if the children are sensitive of it, i would suspect there is a reason why.

[sanemom]

Ah yes, I remember you talking about the whole name issue. Seems to me that she may have been embarrassed and/or ashamed to not have the same name as her kids. She will be forced to get used to it eventually. Interesting that she changed her name back to maiden if she feels this way.

It makes me wonder if BPDmo is asking the kids "what is your father saying about me." Or just making general statements like "I know they talk about me all the time." This is not uncommon BPD behavior- the narcissism and all. (Because of course you have nothing better to do than to discuss her!)

Sorry to make you paranoid,  but if the children are sensitive of it, i would suspect there is a reason why.

This had more to do with sending the bill to us to pay (it was supposed to go to her) than her name.  She has not used that name in over ten years on any form until two weeks ago when it meant she could try to escape a bill.  The hospital was embarrassed for sending it to the wrong place and fixed the error immediately (they should have checked her id).

I am sure she does ask what we talk about.  I was thinking that DSS overheard it because he was lurking on the stairs.  Because he is always lurking behind corners, we rarely say anything like that in the family room, and I think he started that behavior years ago to spy for BPD mom in the first place.