Suddenly all better?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I am seriously confused.  My wife and I had a talk about our troubles.  It seemed like a good talk.  I was able to keep her semi-focused by asking her continuously if the topic she was on, which changed fast, was before, during or after the previous related topic.  This made her lose that train of 20 cars/complaints and stay with fewer complaints.  I even mentioned how one time she hugged me that it felt nice but hurt because she has pushed me away intimately, sexually and communicatively over the years (progressively worse).

Since then, she has been more affectionate.  Sadly, I feel like something is wrong.  Not sure how to place it.  It could just be my imagination.  My confused thoughts:

• It seems like a sudden shift.  Why did she wait until now to shift?  It is not like she did not notice that she was pushing us apart, yes?



• Is it sincere?  This is more like it was early in the marriage and earlier.  I do not recall exactly if it was early marriage but certainly prior.  The only other times I feel this from her have been if she feels a bit jealous somewhere.  She would cling to my arm which felt very nice.



• She has said several times that I want a strong woman and a wallflower, but she cannot do both.  Sometimes, she has added that she does not believe I can find someone like that.  I will note (not to her) that I feel like I have neither.



• I feel like I have given her ammunition against me.



• Is this temporary?  She has done similar warmth patterns before now, so I am very hesitant to fall for it again.



• Am I just being paranoid because I do not want to be hurt by this?

[Zon]

I am seriously confused.  My wife and I had a talk about our troubles.  It seemed like a good talk.  I was able to keep her semi-focused by asking her continuously if the topic she was on, which changed fast, was before, during or after the previous related topic.  This made her lose that train of 20 cars/complaints and stay with fewer complaints.  I even mentioned how one time she hugged me that it felt nice but hurt because she has pushed me away intimately, sexually and communicatively over the years (progressively worse).

Since then, she has been more affectionate.  Sadly, I feel like something is wrong.  Not sure how to place it.  It could just be my imagination.  My confused thoughts:

• It seems like a sudden shift.  Why did she wait until now to shift?  It is not like she did not notice that she was pushing us apart, yes?



• Is it sincere?  This is more like it was early in the marriage and earlier.  I do not recall exactly if it was early marriage but certainly prior.  The only other times I feel this from her have been if she feels a bit jealous somewhere.  She would cling to my arm which felt very nice.



• She has said several times that I want a strong woman and a wallflower, but she cannot do both.  Sometimes, she has added that she does not believe I can find someone like that.  I will note (not to her) that I feel like I have neither.



• I feel like I have given her ammunition against me.



• Is this temporary?  She has done similar warmth patterns before now, so I am very hesitant to fall for it again.



• Am I just being paranoid because I do not want to be hurt by this?

[Mutt]

A person with BPD have troubles seeing the grey areas in life and in people. You are either all good or all bad. You are split white.

[Zon]

A person with BPD have troubles seeing the grey areas in life and in people. You are either all good or all bad. You are split white.

Ah!  That explains a lot.  Now, I have three questions:

• Would that explain why she is treating the children with more patience too?



• What exactly did I do that flipped me to white?  I am sadly laughing at this.



• Is it possible that she is trying to rebuild me and the relationship back to where she can control me again?  In other words, do pwBPD (always) play nice until they lure you back into the fold?

[Fatherwith2girls]

I'm in the same boat. Late July I told my BPD wife I wanted out. At first rage and she was going to leave. Then she thought about it and decided I should leave, then she thought further and decided she wanted to work it out.  After a few very volatile weeks she realized SHE needed to change and arguing was making me further and further away.  So, for the last month or two she has been much more caring, attentive and kind.  She has been similar with our two children. I don't know if I can trust it either. I feel like it's too little too late.

Have you noticed any change in behavior in the last month since your post?

[Mutt]

She can't control splits and you can't either. It's subconscious, she's not aware of looking at the things the way she does. It's a way of life for her. It's a part of her personality. Just like my personality is mine.

You can get split black for a longtime if you really trigger her fear of abandonment. I said 4 words never to tell a borderline "I want a divorce". I had no idea she may be borderline at the time. I've been split black for almost 3 years. I hope that helps.

[Zon]

I'm in the same boat. Late July I told my BPD wife I wanted out. At first rage and she was going to leave. Then she thought about it and decided I should leave, then she thought further and decided she wanted to work it out.  After a few very volatile weeks she realized SHE needed to change and arguing was making me further and further away.  So, for the last month or two she has been much more caring, attentive and kind.  She has been similar with our two children. I don't know if I can trust it either. I feel like it's too little too late.

Have you noticed any change in behavior in the last month since your post?

Life has kept me very busy, so I just found time to login.

She has improved in some ways, but it may only be a change in tactics.  It feels like she is being careful at time to what she says, however, it is still lurking there.  It pops out often enough.  Looking at my journal, that darkness in her is still there.

She still has her jabs at our D9 and myself:

• "You are not man I once knew."



• "No wife should have to make an appointment to talk with her husband."  This is in response to me trying not to give an exact time for when I would be finished with a project.  When I gave an exact time, it was too late in the day in her opinion.



• "I am through we her."  "It leaves me heartbroken."  "I am wondering if I should even be here."  This was regarding our D9 who was not completing her homework in a timely manner.  I walked away from this conversation as I felt it would switch to me somehow.  I took our D9 to help her complete her homework.

She now has issues with some moms and teachers at dance school our daughter attends.  While not permanent, she had some brief episodes with her own mother and my stepmom.

How about yourself?  Did it swing back or in a different direction?

[terranova79]

I'm in the same boat. Late July I told my BPD wife I wanted out. At first rage and she was going to leave. Then she thought about it and decided I should leave, then she thought further and decided she wanted to work it out.  After a few very volatile weeks she realized SHE needed to change and arguing was making me further and further away.  So, for the last month or two she has been much more caring, attentive and kind.  She has been similar with our two children. I don't know if I can trust it either. I feel like it's too little too late.

Have you noticed any change in behavior in the last month since your post?

Life has kept me very busy, so I just found time to login.

She has improved in some ways, but it may only be a change in tactics.  It feels like she is being careful at time to what she says, however, it is still lurking there.  It pops out often enough.  Looking at my journal, that darkness in her is still there.

She still has her jabs at our D9 and myself:

• "You are not man I once knew."



• "No wife should have to make an appointment to talk with her husband."  This is in response to me trying not to give an exact time for when I would be finished with a project.  When I gave an exact time, it was too late in the day in her opinion.



• "I am through we her."  "It leaves me heartbroken."  "I am wondering if I should even be here."  This was regarding our D9 who was not completing her homework in a timely manner.  I walked away from this conversation as I felt it would switch to me somehow.  I took our D9 to help her complete her homework.

She now has issues with some moms and teachers at dance school our daughter attends.  While not permanent, she had some brief episodes with her own mother and my stepmom.

How about yourself?  Did it swing back or in a different direction?

This sounds a lot like my situation.  The last year or so has been hellish quite a bit of the time, full of verbal abuse, manipulation, and yelling from my uBPDw towards me.  I stayed with her because we have two kids now, one of whom was just born earlier this year.  Finally, in September, I reached my breaking point when I took my oldest son to visit my parents for a three day weekend and she ruined it when the internet connection was too slow for her and my son to facetime.  She literally called me 40 times over two days, left me 20 voicemails, and threatened to call the cops on me, saying I was trying to keep her from communicating with our son.  I told her it was over shortly thereafter.  I moved out for a few days, but then decided to give her one last shot.

Most of the time since I moved back in in late September has been bad, but over the last week or so she has been much nicer--trying to plan date nights, being friendlier, etc.  If she had been this way after only a month or so of hellish behavior I would be happy for the change.  But now I can't trust that it will be enduring and, in all honesty, I cannot reciprocate the feeling--she destroyed what feelings I had and I know that with a personality disorder like BPD, the hellishness will just return.

So what to do now?  Go ahead and proceed with leaving if that's what I think is best long term?  Or wait until I'm split black again, when I'll be fed up enough to make picking up and leaving a bit easier to do?

It's hard to know how to proceed.  All I know from my past experience and from what my therapist has told me is that I will have to put up with hellishness for the rest of my life if I stay married to my uBPDw, regardless of whether things are momentarily better.

[vortex of confusion]

• Would that explain why she is treating the children with more patience too?



• What exactly did I do that flipped me to white?  I am sadly laughing at this.



• Is it possible that she is trying to rebuild me and the relationship back to where she can control me again?  In other words, do pwBPD (always) play nice until they lure you back into the fold?

After 18 years with my husband (married 16.5), I am a bit cynical. I feel like he does just enough to give me hope and get me to chill out and relax. I told him that I am working towards a physical separation. He clearly doesn't believe me because he is always talking about how he hasn't given up hope and that he is going to try, blah, blah, blah. His words sound really great. I have been fooled by his words more times than I care to mention. However, his actions rarely back up those words and he does the bare minimum.

So, I would recommend proceeding with caution. Read the lessons over on the right hand side and see if anything there helps you to make sense of things. There is good information on the Staying Board Lessons too.

[Zon]

Life has kept me very busy, so I just found time to login.

She has improved in some ways, but it may only be a change in tactics.  It feels like she is being careful at time to what she says, however, it is still lurking there.  It pops out often enough.  Looking at my journal, that darkness in her is still there.

She still has her jabs at our D9 and myself:

• "You are not man I once knew."



• "No wife should have to make an appointment to talk with her husband."  This is in response to me trying not to give an exact time for when I would be finished with a project.  When I gave an exact time, it was too late in the day in her opinion.



• "I am through we her."  "It leaves me heartbroken."  "I am wondering if I should even be here."  This was regarding our D9 who was not completing her homework in a timely manner.  I walked away from this conversation as I felt it would switch to me somehow.  I took our D9 to help her complete her homework.

She now has issues with some moms and teachers at dance school our daughter attends.  While not permanent, she had some brief episodes with her own mother and my stepmom.

How about yourself?  Did it swing back or in a different direction?

This sounds a lot like my situation.  The last year or so has been hellish quite a bit of the time, full of verbal abuse, manipulation, and yelling from my uBPDw towards me.  I stayed with her because we have two kids now, one of whom was just born earlier this year.  Finally, in September, I reached my breaking point when I took my oldest son to visit my parents for a three day weekend and she ruined it when the internet connection was too slow for her and my son to facetime.  She literally called me 40 times over two days, left me 20 voicemails, and threatened to call the cops on me, saying I was trying to keep her from communicating with our son.  I told her it was over shortly thereafter.  I moved out for a few days, but then decided to give her one last shot.

Most of the time since I moved back in in late September has been bad, but over the last week or so she has been much nicer--trying to plan date nights, being friendlier, etc.  If she had been this way after only a month or so of hellish behavior I would be happy for the change.  But now I can't trust that it will be enduring and, in all honesty, I cannot reciprocate the feeling--she destroyed what feelings I had and I know that with a personality disorder like BPD, the hellishness will just return.

So what to do now?  Go ahead and proceed with leaving if that's what I think is best long term?  Or wait until I'm split black again, when I'll be fed up enough to make picking up and leaving a bit easier to do?

It's hard to know how to proceed.  All I know from my past experience and from what my therapist has told me is that I will have to put up with hellishness for the rest of my life if I stay married to my uBPDw, regardless of whether things are momentarily better.

I wholeheartedly agree with not knowing what to do next.  However, I am not anxious to jump back into her arms since you seems quite able to give me reminders   about her inner self.  That part about waiting until you get split black again does feel about right.  If we are similar, I bet it would make you feel better to leave while being torn apart versus when there is at least an appearance of it possibly working.  Yes?  Darn guilt!

[Zon]

• Would that explain why she is treating the children with more patience too?



• What exactly did I do that flipped me to white?  I am sadly laughing at this.



• Is it possible that she is trying to rebuild me and the relationship back to where she can control me again?  In other words, do pwBPD (always) play nice until they lure you back into the fold?

After 18 years with my husband (married 16.5), I am a bit cynical. I feel like he does just enough to give me hope and get me to chill out and relax. I told him that I am working towards a physical separation. He clearly doesn't believe me because he is always talking about how he hasn't given up hope and that he is going to try, blah, blah, blah. His words sound really great. I have been fooled by his words more times than I care to mention. However, his actions rarely back up those words and he does the bare minimum.

So, I would recommend proceeding with caution. Read the lessons over on the right hand side and see if anything there helps you to make sense of things. There is good information on the Staying Board Lessons too.

I concur on being cynical.  When I gave up that there were not be a good intimate and more emotional relationship, I decide to try for purely a kind and intellectual one.  I got reamed one day for asking a question.  I snapped (not anger) at that point.  I have been standoffish ever since then.  I have been with her 21 years (married 14).

Thank you.  I will read some of those again.  I learn a lot also from my therapist and my mom (psychologist).

[Aussie0zborn]

This is typical BPD behaviour and is probably the calm before the storm. As you say, it could be her way of manipulating you to drop your guard so that she can take things back to the way they were - the way she liked them best or maybe even to pay you back for the perceived abandonment.

Brace yourself for the attack when you least expect it. 

[Theo41]

Somewhere I picked up the suggestion to enjoy the up part of the cycle. If we don't do that what's the purpose of staying in the relationship?  Also , it's important to show real appreciation when she treats u well. It might make the good part of the cycle come more frequently and last longer.

On the other hand there are techniques such as "SET" which are designed to help you and her pull out the dysreglated periods more quickly and make her feel better.

Lastly, I have learned in Alanon that I deserve to be treated with kindness and respect ( and that's true even when I stir something up with a mistake, or whatever.) So... .I try not to engage with her when she looses it. I go for a walk with the dog, go to the driving range and hit dome balls or just retreat to the bedroom with my iPad. ( I used to argue with her for an hour or two. Those days are Over.) This has had the effect of causing her to watch herself.(she fears abandonment , as many do)

Bottom line: I enjoy the good times and remove myself when she becomes rageful or disrespectful. Theo

[Indyan]

I don't know if I can trust it either. I feel like it's too little too late.

Exactly the same here.

After 4 months of chaos (he went totally out of his mind in July and suddenly left to live with his parents), I finally managed to be sort of independant (very hard situation on a financial level) and paid the rent back to him.

He had been telling all his family that I was using him to have the nice house paid while -poor him- he couldn't afford to rent another house. Amazing. I'd stopped working to raise our baby so I earn no money... .

Anyway, it triggered a "I'm BAAAACK!" reaction    

He hadn't talked to me for WEEKS, even hanging up on me, not answering mails, refusing mediation... .

AND THERE HE STOOD, with his little suitcase on my doorstep!

For 5 days  

But I won't swallow any of his crap. He looks sincere though, he cries and everything, but I just can't take any more.

For 2 months, I've had to run everywhere for help, to ask for a cheaper house, find a nanny urgently, get job interviews etc.

NO WAY, I won't forget and forgive all this.

Or he will have to seek treatment, go back to marital counseling, admit the abuse, apologize, tell all his family he loves me, and that his persecution was in his mind, beg for my love on his knees, learn to play the mandolin etc  

And we're not there yet  

[empathic]

I'm also experiencing a better period with my wife right now. She seems happier and more content at home now. I think some things that have contributed to this are:

a) she's had a fallout with her brother, where he raged at her.

b) we have an appointment with a marriage counselor set up this week.

I've noticed that when it comes to her brother, either he's painted white and I black or the other way around. He really has a strong impact on her.

Regarding the MC, I've brought it up before and she didn't want to go then. This time she actually brought it up. I looked one up with the help of my therapist.

I'm not sure of what to expect there, I suppose I have to just go with the flow. On one hand, I'd like to explain my situation of living with this for so many years. That will not go down well with my wife of course. I fear that if I don't explain enough it will seem like I'm the one causing problems by having detached so much.

[enlighten me]

Not wishing to put a damper on things but another possibility is that she realised her behaviour didnt reflect well on her so has changed them to cast herself in a better light.

my exgf painted me black then became loving again only briefly. I now realise that it wasnt about being nice to me but more to do with keeping up appearances.

[Zon]

I'm also experiencing a better period with my wife right now. She seems happier and more content at home now. I think some things that have contributed to this are:

a) she's had a fallout with her brother, where he raged at her.

b) we have an appointment with a marriage counselor set up this week.

I've noticed that when it comes to her brother, either he's painted white and I black or the other way around. He really has a strong impact on her.

Regarding the MC, I've brought it up before and she didn't want to go then. This time she actually brought it up. I looked one up with the help of my therapist.

I'm not sure of what to expect there, I suppose I have to just go with the flow. On one hand, I'd like to explain my situation of living with this for so many years. That will not go down well with my wife of course. I fear that if I don't explain enough it will seem like I'm the one causing problems by having detached so much.

That is how I have done it.  I have gone with the flow.  Here is my prediction for you explaining your situation all these years:  she will counter with all that she has done for you all these years.  She will say what she has done for you, what she had to put up with regarding you, etc.  With my wife, she has done a lot for me and the family.  That does not take away what she has done TO me and to the family.  I think she rationalizes that all her suffering justifies her actions.