Did I overreact? Need thoughts...

[momtara]

SO some of you have seen my other posts and may be sick of this ongoing crazy story, but anyway:  ExH was on supervised visitation because he wasn't taking his medicine for bipolar.  He seems to be able to control his behavior usually, but if triggered, he gets hostile and imagines things.  Hasn't done anything physical and seems to take good care of the kids when not around me, but it's hard for me to function when I know each encounter with him is so tense.  Anyway, we dropped the supervised visitation for him in exchange for him to see a parent coordinator with me in a few months and give annual reports that he's seeing his therapists.

So the first weekend visitation after dropping supervised visitation, he came to pick up the kids, lashed out at me, and the kids were crying.  He said to our older toddler, "better behave. daddy's not takign his medication."  I still let them go and they came back fine.  I have this on tape and it sounds awful for him, but I dont' want to show my hand and lose the chance to tape if he makes a threat next time.  (He's careful not to go that far, so at least I know he has some control in that way.)

He also sent me a few texts claiming I'm hitting the kids and other stuff. 

Then, for this weekend's visitation, he emailed me to ask if he could have my permission to take them unsupervised.  It's as if he forgot the last order making it unsupervised.  I asked him why he was asking, he completely forgot the new order.  He said his parents wouldn't be around to supervise and asked again if i was ok with that.  It made me uneasy that he kept reminding me that his parents wouldn't be around.

So I emailed my L saying it was an emergency and he was acting weird and i wasn't sure i wanted the kids to go with him.  They have colds and stuff too.  I thought he might not come for them if I said they were sick.  But he came and was calm and happy, said his parents and bday presents for the older toddler (it is his bday), so they went.  They are coming back tonight and seemed fine when i called them.

Did I overreact, emailing my L?  She suggested now maybe he needs supervised again.  And I am once again in this difficult place... .

It is a hard thing to ask for supervised twice, esp when he can show that he did a good job taking care of the kids with their colds.  I will also have to probably admit i have a tape of the angry exchange last time. 

But supervised could be leverage to get frequent reports about him being in counseling and to move up the parent coordinator so she can communicate with us about his doctors and stuff. 

Another thing to do is keep disengaging.  But I also have the chance to ask for some things legally and may not in the future.  I keep having to make these decisions every week.

My exH also believes often that I am trying to take the kids from him, so more legal stuff will stress both of us.  honestly, a few months ago, before we filed hte first supervised thing, he wasn't as bad as he is now.  Although i can't be responsible for his stress, I certainly don't want to create future nightmares for both of us that will make things even more tense.  And we probably won't get supervised again if we try, so it will be converted to a regular order.  we'll just have these regular motions hanging out there to get us to a pc sooner and get more frequent reports that he is seeing his shrink.

Maybe I should just keep watching and building evidence.  My shrink thinks I need to set boundaries with him an the behavior will stop.  I think it will, but he still won't get the right treatment so in a way I want to monitor how he is acting.  The T doesn't like that idea and thinks it's just more manipulation.

Thoughts?

[Matt]

Nobody can understand completely without actually meeting this guy, but here's my reaction, for whatever it's worth... .

First, trust your instincts - they're probably pretty good.  Security expert Gavin de Becker - I would strongly recommend his book "Protecting The Gift" - says when our guts tell us that somebody isn't safe, we're usually right.  Much bigger risk when you ignore your intuition than when you go with it.

So... .any time he shows up to pick up the kids, and you don't think he's OK, I wouldn't hand over the kids:  "I'm sorry but I do not feel OK with them being with you right now.  Call me tomorrow and we'll work out another time." and close the door (and lock it).

Your lawyer might not agree with that, but if something bad happens to the kids, because you ignored your best judgment, your lawyer won't be able to fix that.  She can tell you what the law says, but she can't tell you for sure what is safe - you have to make that call, and it's more important than the law.

Second, about recording:  Find out what the law says where you live, about two things.  First, is it legal (or a crime) to record someone without their knowledge.  And second, is that recording likely to be admissible in court?

Where I live, the answer is, it's legal if at least one party (you) know about it, but it's usually not admissible in court.  But my lawyer told me that if the recording shows something really big - like your ex abusing the kids - then the judge would be likely to admit it anyway.

Don't threaten your husband in any way - don't tell him, "If you do X I'll give my lawyer this recording!" for example.  That will make things worse.  I would suggest letting your lawyer listen to each recording that you think is worth her time, so she can judge when is the best time to share them with the court.

Did you overreact by e-mailing your lawyer?  Probably not.  Your judgment is telling you that your ex is not OK, and your lawyer's judgment is that he may not be ready for unsupervised visitation.  You tried it - no big problems so far - but some indications that he is not ready.  Talk openly with your lawyer and decide if now is the time to file a motion for supervision, or if you give it a little longer and see how it goes.

Don't think in terms of minimizing your ex's stress.  That's not your job.  Set boundaries and maintain them - even when you're not sure! - be firm and consistent.  Don't let anyone argue you out of your best judgment about what is OK for the kids - you are their protector.

[momtara]

Thanks.  I agree.  If there is a risk, I will wiithold them.  He unnervsed me but so far they've been ok.  I appreciate reading all of that.  Parent coordinator described him as "menacing."  That's about it, I guess.

I am struggling to figure out whether to go to court, using the ammo I have.  It's a lot to do but I only have a short time to do it.  I'd ask for frequent reports that he's seeing his doc, as well as start with the parent coordinator earlier.

But court will stress him, push me even more financially, and it will probably not be supervised visiation, will convert to a regular order,and then he's still taking the kids on his own while he stresses over this.l

[livednlearned]

SO some of you have seen my other posts and may be sick of this ongoing crazy story

We're here for the same reason you are, momtara    It's comforting to all be sick of the same ongoing crazy stories together  

I'm trying to figure out what you might mean by "disengaging." It seems different than how other people here define it. You are trying to gauge how unstable he is, and whether you should file for supervised visitation. That's different than, say, ignoring his behavior and locking in a boundary.

It's a nuance, but it might help to get to the bottom of it.

For example, if you want supervised visitation, and you document what he does, and then file to have supervision and a PC or whatever, that is not engaging him.

But if you want supervised visitation because you want to monitor him, manage him, control him, fix him, or if you do something (or don't do something) in order to get him to behave a certain way, that is engaging him. Or manipulating him, like your T said.

One thing I'm confused about -- It sounds like your ex considers his parents to be decent supervisors -- why not arrange to have that made permanent? Do you not trust them?

[Matt]

One thing I'm confused about -- It sounds like your ex considers his parents to be decent supervisors -- why not arrange to have that made permanent? Do you not trust them?

Let me respectfully disagree a little here... .

... .and by the way, I have no experience with this - never dealt with supervised visitation - so I'm just offering my own judgment... .

... .but I would not agree to a member of the disordered party's family - or even more than one of them - doing the supervision.

Supervision should be by someone trained to do it, and held accountable by some standards.

And those of us who have a disordered person in our family - and I include myself in that - we're pretty likely to be caught up in the dysfunction in ways we don't fully understand.  People who have some sort of psychological problem usually have one or more "enablers" close to them.  Expecting those enablers to enforce good boundaries is like putting a rabbit in charge of the carrots.

[livednlearned]

One thing I'm confused about -- It sounds like your ex considers his parents to be decent supervisors -- why not arrange to have that made permanent? Do you not trust them?

Let me respectfully disagree a little here... .

... .and by the way, I have no experience with this - never dealt with supervised visitation - so I'm just offering my own judgment... .

... .but I would not agree to a member of the disordered party's family - or even more than one of them - doing the supervision.

Supervision should be by someone trained to do it, and held accountable by some standards.

And those of us who have a disordered person in our family - and I include myself in that - we're pretty likely to be caught up in the dysfunction in ways we don't fully understand.  People who have some sort of psychological problem usually have one or more "enablers" close to them.  Expecting those enablers to enforce good boundaries is like putting a rabbit in charge of the carrots.

That's true. I'm thinking more specifically of momtara's dilemma, and the specifics of how her ex's traits present. I would never go for it in my own situation, since N/BPDx's mother isn't someone I ever trusted. But supervised visitation can also be stressful in its own way. It was offered as a temporary solution when S13 was 9 and about to see his dad, but for a variety of reasons I didn't do it.

I was asking because momtara's ex said his parents weren't around, as though that had been something previously agreed as an agreeable compromise, so I was trying to understand better what was going on with that arrangement.

[momtara]

I guess the issue here is that the things my exH says make my head spin.  They're not true, and they're confusing, and so I get scared and nervous because I know he imagines things.  But so far the kids are fine, and they come home happy.  So by disengage, I mean I have to keep setting boundaries and talk less to him (except about crucial kid stuff) and not get as wrapped up in what he's saying.

It disturbs me that he imagines things.  It COULD affect the kids someday.  It certainly makes it difficult to coparent.  But is that grounds to have him supervised?  Not sure a court would think so.

I can ask for a psych eval, parent coordinator, etc., in an order.  Or I can wait a little longer and get him back on supervised and then ask for those things, which I'd feel better about, but it's a big deal.

I am wondering if involving the courts is makign this all better or worse.  I just want to make sure he's getting the right psych treatment.  But a lot of his behavior relates to triggers, so if something triggers him, even with the medicine, he imagines stuff.

My head spins constantly now, partly from things he says and does, and partly becuase i had him on supervised this summer (a good chance to do somethign) and instead I let myself walk on eggshells to such an extent that I came up with a toothless order.  What was I thinking?  I just get so intimidated by him and worried bout triggering him, but backing down is worse i guess.

You are right lived and learned, I'd like to get to the bottom of what's wrong with him.  His shrink knows.  A psych evaluator might know too, but neither of us has money.  I'll have to figure out if I should do anythign now, court wise.

It seems like i spend every period between his visitations wondering if I should do some kind of sneak court attack on him.  He does crazy things and then all of a sudden, when I'm about to do something, he tends to calm down.

It goes back to what i started with - he's difficult to co parent with, menacing, and disordered, and erratic, and our PC thought he is very mentally ill - but seems to do fine with the kids when he has them.

as for making the parents permanent supervisors, they don't want that burden (and who would?)  although they're often around while exH has them.  

If drug abusers and violent offenders sometimes get unsupervisd, it's goign to be hard to get him under supervision again and it will just make him mad and cost money.  I'd love it, for peace of mind, but not sure I have enough ammo yet.

[momtara]

Regarding parents supervising:  He lives with them anyway and it's a way to show a judge I'm not really interrupting visitation.  And it keeps things calmer, I think.  That way he still sees the kids and doesn't miss visits.

Anyway, just saw my T.  I am kicking myself over agreeing to a parent coordinator who can't talk to my exH's therapists.  Also, not demanding monthly updates about him seeing his therapists.  Now I want a way out of that.  My T said a judge may say it's too soon to change it.  True, but my exH also said he's off his medication.  So he's already flouting the agreement.

T suggested that when we start with a PC, I explain my dilemma.  I am worried because by seeing the PC, I do accept the terms, and that may eliminate my change to change it.

This is all way too complicated for me.

[Matt]

I guess the issue here is that the things my exH says make my head spin.  They're not true, and they're confusing, and so I get scared and nervous because I know he imagines things.

I think the only solution to that is to disengage from him - don't talk to him face-to-face or by phone - e-mail only.

If he sends e-mails which look crazy, you have to make a judgment.  Either overlook them, if you think maybe he just made a mistake.  Or take them seriously, which means taking some legal action, or withholding contact with the kids.

For example, if he writes something which is really crazy, or if he accuses you of something that you didn't do, you could suspend visitation, and let your lawyer know that you are no longer OK with the kids having contact with their father without professional supervision.

[livednlearned]

I don't think you can be this worried about him and then not enforce boundaries. I was reading this thing today about habits and decisions, how most of the things we think are decisions are actually habits. It feels like that might be happening -- you  think you're making decisions when it comes to him, but it's more habitual. You feel intimidated, so you back down. And then regret it, and the worry and anxiety and second-guessing continues.

He is either dangerous and unstable and you set your sights on your goal and work toward it -- no deviating -- or you tiptoe around him and react to things.

You can't really have both.  :'(

It's either strategy all the way, and you stick to it.

Or it's letting him drive things, and you deal with the anxiety and stress.

Not easy.

But also, not too complicated. At least, not from out here. I know it's different when you're living it.

 

[momtara]

He is unstable.  As for dangerous?  I can't quite say.  Even our PC, who disliked him, wouldn't say, but did say he should be on his medication and in therapy.  There would have to be a really big trigger in order to push him to go farther than he's gone.   But if he really isn't getting the right therapy, he's definitely going to be more anxious and unstable than before.

So I need to figure out a way to find out if he's really continuing his proper therapy.  While we all say we can't force someone into therapy, you can certainly take away things if they don't stay in and provide proof.

I can file a new court order after we just filed a consent order 3 weeks ago.  I can wait and document.  or I can wait and when we see our new PC, ask her to do something.  All of these strategies are valid, just not sure which will work the best.  The new PC may be reluctant to do anything.

My head is spinning, as usual, trying to figure this out.  And yes, LandL, if I file a new order, I have to go all the way this time, not back down.

[david]

You have said several times that your head is spinning. My ex used to be able to do that to me years ago. I went to email only communication and that worked for me. I don't know if your situation would work that way. My T helped me a lot too.

Also, I think it might be best if you write your concerns down on paper. Put it down and look at it a few days later or keep adding thoughts. Eventually you will have to put it in some logical order. I think that will help when you see the pc and try to explain yourself. Having the paper will help you keep focused and on task.

[KateCat]

momtara,

Boy, this is a tough situation, and no wonder various professionals are hesitant to offer specific advice or predictions.

Is it accurate to say that you have now decided you will not be getting back together with your ex? (I ask because you sound more decisive in that regard recently . . . and you have not referred to him as "hubby" in a while in this forum. )

If that's so, could it be that his deteriorating behavior is due more to this than to other factors? Could this time, right now, be that time that domestic violence experts say is the most dangerous? the time when the disordered spouse understands the partner is leaving?

I hope you can chart a decisive course and get through this challenging period as soon as possible. The guidance from livednlearned, matt, david and others is priceless.

[momtara]

Good points, and something to be vigilant about.  He probably feels more abandonment now that I'm setting boundaries.  I've been leaving him gradually.  You're right, his potential for violence could be higher. 

As for making up my mind - yeah, you realized I'm not saying 'hubby' anymore.  I guess I made up my mind a while ago, but there was always the hope he could get on the right medication or something.  He was trying.  I think he's stopped trying now.

All of which doesn't decisively tell me if I should try to get supervised visitation back, or wait to see if he gets better or worse.  A judge probably just won't grant it for someone who has no record of violence or drugs, and he can just get back off it soon after that.

[KateCat]

Yeah, there's still no real answer. I think Matt's practical suggestions above are the best action plan for now.

ADDED: it just occurred to me that Matt's suggestion of withholding a particular visitation when something "goes down" just before he is to take the kids could really be key. Because your ex's objective still seems to be to frighten you into taking him back. So he will want to do his menacing routine just before leaving with the kids, won't he? What sort of menacing effect would it have for him to act disturbed and declare that he is off his meds when he returns them? Much less, no?

[momtara]

Hmmmm, that's an interesting thought.

Pretty twisted way to get attention.  But we're not dealing with someone thinking normally. 

[Matt]

I don't think anyone should withhold visitation lightly, both because it could put you on the wrong side of the law, and because it could make the kids into pawns in the conflict between the parents.

But... .I think there are two reasons - both maybe relevant here - which might make it the right thing to do.

First is if you believe - not out of anger at the other adult but out of your best judgment - that the kids might not be safe.  If you are prepared to say why you believe that, you will be acting in the kids' interests, and I think the court is unlikely to punish you for that.

Second is that if you withhold visitation, your ex's recourse within the law is to take you to court - maybe ask that you be ordered to resume visitation, or even that you be held in contempt.  And you will have the opportunity, not only to tell what caused you to be concerned about the kids' safety at that time, but also to tell anything else that might be relevant, such as if you have reason to believe your ex is off his meds, not going to therapy, etc.

That may put your ex on the defensive.  He is obligated to follow the court's order, as you are, so if he isn't complying with it, the worst that might happen is the judge will slap both your wrists.  More likely, he'll see that you are protecting the kids from a man who you have good reason to believe might not be completely safe.

I never went down this path exactly.  But when my son was 15 - several years after our divorce was final - I determined that it was not working out well for him to spend lots of time with his mom - she was diagnosed with BPD and ordered to get therapy, but didn't comply, and her behavior was causing S15 a lot of stress.  So I told S15 and his mom, "I think it will be best for S15 to stay with me during the school year.  He can see you on the weekends - work that out with him and we'll see how that works."  She knew the score - if she took me to court I would show that she wasn't complying with the court order and that what I did was in S15's interest.  So she didn't fight me on it, and it's worked pretty well for the last year.

I don't know if it's the right thing for you to do, and I realize that your lawyer might tell you, "Follow the court order to the letter."  But I think you would not be at much risk if at some point you decided to withhold visitation for good reason.

[momtara]

I would withhold it if need be.

If he ever says anything threatening, I will withhold it.

If he's going nuts, I will withhold it.

I could withhold it on the basis of him saying he's off his meds, because that violates our order (I can't possibly believe his docs would recommend that, and he has to follow their recommendations.)

Things may get better.  Or maybe not.  I have 12 days to go before another weekend visitation.

[KateCat]

Things may get better.  Or maybe not.  I have 12 days to go before another weekend visitation.

If I were in your position, I think I would feel a bit calmer now, having this plan.

Sometimes when I'm not sure what I think about something, I remember that legal definitions often include a clause regarding "what a reasonable person would consider [threatening/menacing/or whatever]." Maybe it could help to use a bland, impersonal concept like that when you're trying to make an on-the-spot assessment about whether your ex is safe to take the kids on a particular occasion. (Rather than trying to perform a risk assessment based on all the things you feel you know of him as an individual.)

Such a tough situation!

[momtara]

Thanks.  Yes, I was using those same guidelines last time - if he'd stated a threat, I wouldn't have let them go.  He said to our 3 year old, "Better behave.  Daddy's not taking any medication."  If he'd said "Better behave or else" or "Better behave or you're gonna get it" or something like that, I would not have let him take them.  As it was, they were crying and it was hard to let them go.  But he was doing all that for my benefit, apparently.

That said, there is no reasonable way to tell if someone is going to cause harm to kids or himself except for a prior instance or a threat.  I've read cases like this and usually, the person is deranged or angry enough that there is at least one threat, even if subtle. 

You may have all read a thread that started here today where an ex kidnapped a toddler first out of the mom's home, then out of day care.  My ex seems not to go to those extremes.

There are still examples of a normal guy who snaps or does something hurtful.  I just think I have to wait to see if he crosses a line.  He's intimidating, menacing, scary, but so are many exes and they don't get supervised.  If I'd waited a bit before asking for supervised last time, and had actual instances I could point to, he might still be on it right now and I wouldn't have been as quick to remove it.

So I have to see if he gets better or worse.  My fear is, it'll just continue the same with me being scared.  At leats if the children get a little older I'll feel better.  If he is really sick, though, something's bound to happen.  I want it to be something not too too bad so it's enough to make a decision but not enough to cause permanent harm. 

I wrote a letter to his doctors that I won't send.  Sending it will really bug him - but I may do it eventually.  Just wanted to get it out there.  For now I am having my L send his doctors the final order saying he has to follow their recommendations.  That will trigger him too, but better than if I wrote something.  Does that sound ok?

[livednlearned]

I think the definition of "dangerous" is important here. Both how the courts/law enforcement would perceive it, how mental health professionals define it, and how you define it.

Law enforcement and courts have a stricter definition of "dangerous" than we do as parents.

People who were married for a long time to mentally ill people sometimes have a hard time figuring out what is "normal" vs "dangerous"

Conversely, our anxiety can be disproportionately jacked up because we are raising kids with someone who is mentally ill and unstable

This makes us hyper wired to wait for the shoe to drop

Sometimes we contribute to each other's fears -- we read someone else's story and that increases our anxiety about what might happen in our case.

momtara, the fact that your ex has not been dangerous is important. He has not kidnapped the kids, nor has he threatened to. Interestingly, despite the fact he has unsupervised visitation, he checked to see if he could have the kids. He hears things and sees things, and has lied about taking medications, but he seems to understand that he is ill and not entirely stable, and even if it's not consistent, he does look to you for permission.

He got angry at your girls -- many parents lose it in front of the kids -- and he said something that he knew would escalate your anxiety. But then the girls were fine and came home happy.

The hardest part of what you're dealing with is managing your own anxiety. This is not to say that your anxiety isn't warranted. Believe me, I understand. Like a lot of BPD sufferers, he has you very well dialed. He knows exactly what your buttons are and how to push them. The key for you is to neutralize your reactions to the point that you are so beige and bland and non-reactive, he can't tell if you're sleep walking.

No one can predict whether he will or won't be dangerous, and you are ultimately the person who has to act and be responsible. That's tough.

But you also have to manage your own anxiety and start controlling the only part of this you can truly control. If he is dangerous, or does something -- you need to do an internal anxiety check.

What I found is that when things get out of hand, I become super calm and know exactly what has to happen. It's the rest of the time when my anxiety is in the red zone that I have to get a hold of myself and bring it back to a tolerable level.

Anxiety doesn't make you a better thinker. It burns out people around you -- it's a form of spinning that wears out the person trying to help you, that's what my experience has been. One weekend, I thought my ex was going to kidnap S13. He asked for more clothing than S13 needed, it was right before Thanksgiving, we had just gone down to day visits only, you know the drill. My PC took a call from me on the weekend, and helped me think things through. But I was spinning so badly she got fed up (in a kind way) and said I had two choices, both were uncertain. Either hold S13 back and see how that plays out. Or drop S13 off and see how that plays out.

I know this isn't easy.

[momtara]

Thank you!

Yeah, I went thru the extra clothes thing too. 

You've made that point about anxiety before.  I started regular therapy now to deal with it.

Besides anxiety over what he *could* do, there's anxiety over just what I should do in response to things that happen with him.  Not always violent things.  But there is so much to deal with regarding a mentally ill ex.  You know how it is.

Yes, obviously if things got really bad I'd know what to do.  And I have done things.

I appreciate your thoughts as always.  I feel like you really do understand a lot of what I'm going through.

[livednlearned]

Thank you!

Yeah, I went thru the extra clothes thing too.  

You've made that point about anxiety before.  I started regular therapy now to deal with it.

Besides anxiety over what he *could* do, there's anxiety over just what I should do in response to things that happen with him.  Not always violent things.  But there is so much to deal with regarding a mentally ill ex.  You know how it is.

Yes, obviously if things got really bad I'd know what to do.  And I have done things.

I appreciate your thoughts as always.  I feel like you really do understand a lot of what I'm going through.

Your kids are a lot younger -- it has to crank up the stress.

I have a T I talk to about this stuff too. After the last flare up with N/BPDx back in March, she made me set aside 30 minutes a day where I was "allowed" to indulge in my worries. I could write to my L, talk to friends, look up things about mental illness online, but only for 30 minutes. She also encouraged me to exercise for 30 minutes before I set aside those 30 minutes. Then I had to go down to 25 minutes. Then 20. I'm at 15 right now.

Really hard habits to get into. But it has helped a bit. I made the mistake of telling the man I'm dating about it, so whenever I start talking about legal stuff or S13 or anything to do with this big trainwreck, he asks me if I'm under or over my 15 minutes. Drives me nuts.

I think it's helped. I'm not as good about getting the exercise in, but I'm getting more mindful about the galloping horses in my head. I do think it helps you see things more clearly, it gives you a baseline to come back to when things geniunely need your attention.

You're in this for the long-term so you need to pace yourself, otherwise this stuff will burn a hole through you and your kids will feel it.

[momtara]

Even if he's not dangerous, there are so many strategies.  My exH really is in contempt for not taking his medicine.  So I could have taken him back to court, and still could, and try to right some of the wrongs in my agreement - make sure the PC can talk to his therapists etc.  At least he'd be better with the kids in the long run if he gets consistent help.   I'm letting it go for now, but who knows what the right thing is to do?  And I always have to act quickly or another visitation comes around.

But it gets exhausting.

LandL, you are so rational and smart, your new boyfriend is lucky... .it's hard to believe that someone as measured and wise as you was with someone as disordered as your ex.  But I guess that could be said for many of us.

[livednlearned]

It's hard to believe that someone as measured and wise as you was with someone as disordered as your ex.  But I guess that could be said for many of us.

 

It's hard to recognize red flags when you grew up in a field filled with them.  

The thing about my new guy is that we would never have worked out if we met 15 years ago. I had to go to BPD college and get my degree.  

[momtara]

"People who were married for a long time to mentally ill people sometimes have a hard time figuring out what is "normal" vs "dangerous"

Conversely, our anxiety can be disproportionately jacked up because we are raising kids with someone who is mentally ill and unstable

This makes us hyper wired to wait for the shoe to drop

Sometimes we contribute to each other's fears -- we read someone else's story and that increases our anxiety"

I was just reading this all again.  That's so true.  I wish I could decrease my anxiety.  But I feel like that's a copout, because it means not being hypervigilant about my kids.  It's easy for my T and PC to say to calm down, but they are not the ones who have kids in this situation.  They care, but ultimately, they go home at night and don't think about it.

I've thought of getting on anxiety medication.  But what if I have valid fears and it makes me not respond to them appropriately?

I don't want the kids to be 18 years old and for me to say, "I spent those 18 years worrying, what a shame." 

I think I am angry at myself for letting him off the hook.  I did it for a number of reasons, but all of them sound dumb now.  I guess I thought things were starting to get better.

I am seeing my therapist and will keep working on my anxieties.  I think I would only be truly calm if my ex was on supervised visits and I didn't have to deal with him, but I guess that's selfish.  If he says or does something extreme, I'll go back to that.  Right now, I just have to try not to overthink, but be watchful.  I don't always know that my judgment is right, because if it was so good, I wouldn't have married my ex.   

[livednlearned]

I wish I could decrease my anxiety.  But I feel like that's a copout, because it means not being hypervigilant about my kids. 

There is a point of diminishing returns with anxiety. A little bit of anxiety keeps you alert, and that's good. If you're flooded in it, and your head is spinning half the time, and you aren't present with your kids, and can't concentrate or make good decisions, then it isn't really helping anymore. More likely it feels comfortable, like it did when you were a kid. "If I'm anxious and paying attention, nothing bad will happen." But usually that's not how it was. A lot of kids develop heightened anxiety and it makes them feel safe to be hyper alert, even though it doesn't do much. In fact, it can make it worse. 

We fool ourselves. 

If your anxiety is extreme, but your judgment is wobbly, the anxiety isn't doing much except tricking you into thinking you're paying attention. Anxiety is a form of imagination. If you have so much of it all the time, it gets hard to tell what is important to pay attention to, and what isn't.

Anti anxiety medication isn't the only way to deal with it. There are techniques you can do, and CBT if you want to help change the patterns. Exercise helps me more than anything else I've done, but it's hard for me to find the time. The second best thing is breathing.

You need to figure out what your calm baseline is and then develop techniques to help return to it. And then you need to balance it with good boundaries so you can follow up on what is triggering the anxiety to protect yourself. Boundaries are about protecting you, which is what anxiety is trying to tell you.

I am still on high alert when it comes to N/BPDx. That hasn't changed. And I can shoot back up to high anxiety in half a second. But I know it's time to bring in my toolbox and start dealing with my anxiety in healthy ways. I make better decisions when I'm centered and grounded. I sleep better, I eat better, I feel better.

But at the heart of your anxiety is probably a very deep fear, something you might not even have a name for. The only way I really dealt with my stuff was to get right into that fear with my therapist. Once you stare your fears in the face and survive, it's much easier to come back up to the surface and realize that you aren't afraid anymore.

[momtara]

Thanks.  That is all so smart, and so true.  I wonder if I have been so worried all my life, that I don't know how -not- to be.

Maybe my anxiety makes me feel in control of what my exH does, when in fact I'm less so, and I'm not being strong enough in my decisions to protect the kids.  Or maybe I am -overreacting- because of my anxiety, and I shouldn't worry as muc.  I just can't tell.  Something to bring up with my T, I guess.

I'm still constantly trying to figure out if there's something more I can be doing to protect my kids. Overreacting at this stage will just backfire.  So being vigilant now is about all I can do.