I'm Confused...

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Disclaimer: I'm tired and perhaps over simplifying. I just finished reading a lot of "heady" posts on here that are confusing me almost as my exbfBPD did for a year; lots of rationalizing and justifying and in many cases sounds like blaming the nons. Wow. I love my BPD Family, but hold on. Was I selected by exbfBPD based on my kind and empathetic nature? Yes, no doubt. Did he profile me for his "supply"? Definitely. Right down to checking out my car on our first date. Was he needy and mirroring? Yep. He was EXTREMELY brilliant and insecure. Did I see the child within? Absolutely. Was it a road map to seeing and hearing my own inner child? No doubt. Do therapists run for the hills when they are asked about working with Axis II Disorders? Yes! Why are mental health professionals trained extensively in boundaries? In the profession, (forgive another oversimplification) it's the difference between being a shark hunter and a bird hunter. Hanging out with sharks for any period of time will minimally get you hurt and likely get you killed, without extensive training and protective equipment. I CHOSE to stay in the shark tank long after I realized the exbfBPD was a predator--in every sense of the word. I was profiled, stalked, tortured, tenderized, and very nearly killed. In the meantime, I was looking for companionship; I found a man I believed to be brilliant and charming; I did everything I could to help him get on his feet for an entire year just so that he could rob me of everything; money plays a distant second to robbing me of my health, my friends, my work, etc. YES, this is my chance to get me right. I get it. But this pwBPD made a choice to violate me, take advantage of me, and ultimately abandon me. I can research and analyze it forever, but my parents' generation would have summed it up in one word: EVIL

[Loveofhislife]

Disclaimer: I'm tired and perhaps over simplifying. I just finished reading a lot of "heady" posts on here that are confusing me almost as my exbfBPD did for a year; lots of rationalizing and justifying and in many cases sounds like blaming the nons. Wow. I love my BPD Family, but hold on. Was I selected by exbfBPD based on my kind and empathetic nature? Yes, no doubt. Did he profile me for his "supply"? Definitely. Right down to checking out my car on our first date. Was he needy and mirroring? Yep. He was EXTREMELY brilliant and insecure. Did I see the child within? Absolutely. Was it a road map to seeing and hearing my own inner child? No doubt. Do therapists run for the hills when they are asked about working with Axis II Disorders? Yes! Why are mental health professionals trained extensively in boundaries? In the profession, (forgive another oversimplification) it's the difference between being a shark hunter and a bird hunter. Hanging out with sharks for any period of time will minimally get you hurt and likely get you killed, without extensive training and protective equipment. I CHOSE to stay in the shark tank long after I realized the exbfBPD was a predator--in every sense of the word. I was profiled, stalked, tortured, tenderized, and very nearly killed. In the meantime, I was looking for companionship; I found a man I believed to be brilliant and charming; I did everything I could to help him get on his feet for an entire year just so that he could rob me of everything; money plays a distant second to robbing me of my health, my friends, my work, etc. YES, this is my chance to get me right. I get it. But this pwBPD made a choice to violate me, take advantage of me, and ultimately abandon me. I can research and analyze it forever, but my parents' generation would have summed it up in one word: EVIL

[Ihope2]

I struggle to discern between "damaged" and "evil". 

Take these new-age militant fundamentalists, that go around beheading those innocent people who have put their lives on the line for the sake of charity in a foreign land or accurate journalism.  These jihadist people are damaged beyond repair.  What have they not been exposed to themselves as children and young adults to make them become such soul-less individuals intent on harming, destroying and wreaking revenge on the rest of the world?

The world we live in is churning out one generation after the next of profoundly defective individuals devoid of humanity.

[Blimblam]

Well here's the thing I agree it felt evil.  But this evil is a corruption that occurred from outside sources.  Tracing te corruption back to it's original origins would reveal the very nature of corruption it's self.

What happens is we fuse our identities with our exs and they project all they have inside which is good and bad but you are and extension of them and through there mirroring have created a bond like that between mother and child. They act out the pattern they are stuck in. We identify with their projection and now we get an idea of how badly they hurt inside from things that were Beyomd their control.  It is the corruption it's self that is evil and in order for the corruption to persist it needs a bad guy.  As soon as weaken our exs the bad guy we have been corrupted too.  This corruption keeps us in pain because if we don't process it their always has to be a bad guy and the corruption itself creates the bad guys. It is like the game of hot potato. They are stuck in a pattern that had nothing to do with us.  It's not our fault we identified with their projections we identified with being love bombed.

Anger can be healthy it helps give that internal push to push back the oppression of the "inner critic". Isn't that the bad guy your really struggling with? A force that exists within you already. The inner critic likes to outsource the anger to redirect you from confronting it directly.

You got this! I believe in you.

[OutOfEgypt]

I definitely see it as an evil streak, as well.  To me, there doesn't have to be a distinction between damaged and evil.  All people are damaged in some way.  We are too, now, aren't we?  But not all of them a) act in pathologically self-serving, self-need-focused ways, and b) take no actual responsibility for it.  However, the thing that grounds me is that I know I am capable of doing many of the things my ex did.  That keeps me humble, and it keeps me from putting her on some pedestal like she's some giant monster.  I can be just as selfish.  Thankfully, I just can't live comfortably like that.  I don't know how she seems to be able to, but on various levels we are all blind.  

[thereishope]

I definitely see it as an evil streak, as well.  To me, there doesn't have to be a distinction between damaged and evil.  All people are damaged in some way.  We are too, now, aren't we?  But not all of them a) act in pathologically self-serving, self-need-focused ways, and b) take no actual responsibility for it.  However, the thing that grounds me is that I know I am capable of doing many of the things my ex did.  That keeps me humble, and it keeps me from putting her on some pedestal like she's some giant monster.  I can be just as selfish.  Thankfully, I just can't live comfortably like that.  I don't know how she seems to be able to, but on various levels we are all blind.  

I agree wholeheartedly with this.  Only by God's grace the tables aren't turned, with me being the uBPDw and uBPDh actually being the non.  We are all selfish and prideful to some extent.  The only perfect person on earth was Jesus Christ... .So all I can really do is thank God He gave me a desire to try to be an encourager and to fight off being selfish and hurtful to others... . 

[Loveofhislife]

BlimBlam--your words rang out this morning as I scarcely slept and have a touch of a cold: always makes everything feel a little worse. Thanks for saying you believe in me.   Thereishope; I too am a person of Christian faith but I have a strong belief in the power to choose. OutofEgypt and Ihope: total agreement about evil. The concerns I expressed and the confusion I am experiencing (concurrently to detaching from exbfBPD) is an echo of how our relationships with pwBPD are somehow our fault. I fully recognize that I am not a victim and was an active participant, and I'm not trying to cast blame. I perceive that is what many on this board are implying--that we sought them out; manipulated them; violated them; abused them; and dumped them like yesterday's garbage. As a rule, we as codependents are a bit too ready and willing to accept other's pain, blame, and shame. Nearly all of us have the power to choose and understand right from wrong. My exbfBPD may have been higher functioning or more NPD or... .? But I know that he consciously chose to evicerate me: the one person in his life who he said over and over again had been the best friend and biggest supporter of his life. It was premeditated (since that's how we determine guilt in the Courts), and yes Blim--I'm slowly moving into righteous indignation. But I'm growing very concerned about the readiness to blame ourselves when I believe the introspective, self-inventory is integral to prevent our being abused further or by others. 

[tim_tom]

I think there's a danger in putting them in the all bad or evil bucket. They are human beings with good qualities and bad qualities. Not all bad or all good.

As my therapist reminded me today, dismissing them as all bad is avery BPD like thing to do. Splitting them black

[Loveofhislife]

Tim Tom--I am not splitting him black; in fact my T is concerned about just the opposite: that I have been unable to detach because I have continued to make excuses for him and feel sorry for my emotional rapist! I don't think he's ALL evil; no one is. But I believe we must realistically face what has happened to us in order to move through the stages of grief, detach and heal.

[fromheeltoheal]

A borderline may be evil or they may be in such pain that they can only think of themselves and how to get their needs met.  Or the BPD wiring may be such that it is imperative to come at us with the abuse; projection, make us feel the pain they do so they have an equal, lack the ability to connect with how their behaviors make us feel, straight up don't care, continuously reenact revenge for past traumas, and on and on.  In the end blame in either direction has limited value, and it doesn't matter why.

What matters is what we do with it.  All of us here on the Leaving board are no longer in the relationship, and most if us are damn happy about that, but the questions linger.  After the first few bad episodes and unacceptable behavior, why did we stay?  What belief system did we construct in our heads to make what we were faced with 'OK'?  How can we use what we've gleaned from our time in hell moving forward to still care and allow ourselves to be emotionally available, because that's where the juice of life is, but also be extra vigilant when it comes to abuse and unacceptable behaviors?  What's good about the lessons we got?  How much power are we willing to grant, give away, to future partners?  Fruitful stuff there, and the motivation inspired by pain can promote major growth spurts if we channel it right; it's a brand new day.

[Loveofhislife]

Thank you HeeltoHeal--sounds like you are well on your way to being the latter healed:-) congratulations and thanks for encouraging us to join you on that path to healing; I'm really struggling.

[fromheeltoheal]

Thank you HeeltoHeal--sounds like you are well on your way to being the latter healed:-) congratulations and thanks for encouraging us to join you on that path to healing; I'm really struggling.

Yes, it's been a while for me, but I remember the pain, been there, and appreciated the encouragement I got at the time too.  The most important thing for me was to slowly shift the focus, from my ex to me and from the past to the future.  Beyond that it takes what it takes, there is no timeframe, and it's important to not question your progress, just one foot in front of the other sometimes.  Take care of you!

[Skip]

Tim Tom--I am not splitting him black; in fact my T is concerned about just the opposite: that I have been unable to detach because I have continued to make excuses for him and feel sorry for my emotional rapist! I don't think he's ALL evil; no one is. But I believe we must realistically face what has happened to us in order to move through the stages of grief, detach and heal.

Loveofhislife,

Is it healthy coping to use all this inflammatory language?  Or is a sign of emotional immaturity.

What exactly is emotional rape?  What is evil? Predator? Profiled? Stalked? Tortured? Tenderized? Very nearly killed?  What do these words really mean in terms of your life and relationship?  Were you in intensive care? Were you water boarded?  Were you forced to do things against your will at gun point?

I often think we use these words to exonerate ourselves.  If my ex is evil, I am good.

[tim_tom]

Loveofhislife,

Is it healthy coping to use all this inflammatory language?  Or is a sign of emotional immaturity.

What exactly is emotional rape?  What is evil? Predator? Profiled? Stalked? Tortured? Tenderized? Very nearly killed?  What do these words really mean in terms of your life and relationship?  Were you in intensive care? Were you water boarded?  Were you forced to do things against your will at gun point?

I often think we use these words to exonerate ourselves.  If my ex is evil, I am good.

Yes, this is what my T was warning me against. That by splitting her black, like a BPD, and labeling her all bad I was allowing to excuse myself from any responsibility. The fact is that she had many good qualities, and tried very hard to be a good person (short of dealing with her issues, which couldn't be touched). Deep down, she knows she's emotionally messed up and tries her best to compensate in other ways (usually when there is an audience, but I digress) Whomever she's jumped to now is enjoying the good stuff and probably growing weary of the bad.

I had no boundaries, I allowed her to isolate me from my friends, I allowed her to hit me, I allowed her to dominant me rather then risk upsetting her, and then I got self destructive (drinking, weight gain) under the pressure to always meet her requirements. I had options, I could've been an adult and tell her to relax or I'm going to bounce. I didn't. Maybe the next guy will.

A huge part of me wants to think she'll continue to wither away men to a shell of themselves and then move on to the next target. I don't want her to ever be happy for the pain she inflicted on me*. Heck knows she's done that to several before, but I do see the good in her, and think that the right personality can manage her to minimize the bad stuff. It just wasn't me.

*And yes, I do think she was the impetus for what happened to me as the active partner, I was passive from day 1, including courting. I don't it's a contradiction to understand that she screwed me over, while at the same time accepting my own culpability

[Loveofhislife]

TimTom: thanks for your comments--sounds as if you are working on you and committed to healing and detaching. Self reflection and a rigorous inventory of our role in the r/s hopefully helps us grow and prevent future abuse. Thanks again.

[rogerroger]

I struggled for a long time with the question of what was deliberate, how much was calculated, how much was due to twisted rationalizations, etc. In the end I decided it doesn't matter. There are sympathetic and unsympathetic ways to try to account for the behavior of pwBPD. But in the end, it isn't about intentions, or motives, or explanations. It isn't about love, or hate, or indifference. It's all about behavior. In my case, I needed to get myself and our kids out of the way of behavior that was endangering our health and welfare. Emotionally, it was the hardest thing I ever did. But it was the right thing to do.

[fred6]

I struggled for a long time with the question of what was deliberate, how much was calculated, how much was due to twisted rationalizations, etc. In the end I decided it doesn't matter. There are sympathetic and unsympathetic ways to try to account for the behavior of pwBPD. But in the end, it isn't about intentions, or motives, or explanations. It isn't about love, or hate, or indifference. It's all about behavior. In my case, I needed to get myself and our kids out of the way of behavior that was endangering our health and welfare. Emotionally, it was the hardest thing I ever did. But it was the right thing to do.

I don't know  how much was calculated or how much was due to twisted rationalizations either. But when I confronted her with her "flipping the switch" and acting like I didn't exist after she found her new supply. I told her that she could at least act like she somewhat cared about me. Her reply to me was, "this is who I am", "what do you want me to do, say hey baby how was your day"?

I was kind of thinking to myself, "well that would be a nice start". But it just got worse from there.

[tim_tom]

I don't know  how much was calculated or how much was due to twisted rationalizations either. But when I confronted her with her "flipping the switch" and acting like I didn't exist after she found her new supply. I told her that she could at least act like she somewhat cared about me. Her reply to me was, "this is who I am", "what do you want me to do, say hey baby how was your day"?

I was kind of thinking to myself, "well that would be a nice start". But it just got worse from there.

mine ignored it, until i said something like you obviously don't have any warmness in you to show me some emotion (as part of a longer text), and she said she agrees completely

Essentially, as far as she's concerned, I screwed her over and am terrible, unworthy of even basic human kindness

A funny aside, I paid for EVERYTHING over the year we lived together. she bought some decorations and stuff, after throwing my stuff out.  I own a california king bed, she lives in NYC with her parents in a room the size of my bed. She grabbed bed sheets and pillows that she claims to have paid for, leaving me with nothing as she threw mine out. When I asked her why, she said because she's going to leave this f'ng with relationship with something. She'll literally never have a use for them, a place that can fit a california king in Nyc is bucko bucks

Anyway, always reminds me of the movie Rounders... Omg mike, she made made off with your sheets

also took them from the guest room for good measure...

[ajr5679]

I would have to say I seen more of my mother in my ex. I was always trying to pleases my parents as a child. I came very addicted to helping her. I put my needs on the shelf and I allowed her to control everything. I believe her when she would tell me that she would not run from me anymore. I believe her when she told me that she would not leave me. I believed her when she said that she loved me. if I upset her I felt horrible. but I did not deserve to be abused by her son why she watched. i really feel she abused me because she wanted to see how much i could take. i really feel she wanted to she me hurt . when she was triggered she turned into a psychopath. even her face would even change. and she did not care one bet if you was dying and she could save you she would not. she has had three girlfriends and all three of us went to the mental hospital because of being with her. one dumped off her roof of there house while my ex laughed . the other has the shakes now and me i have ptsd . i am the lucky one. i don`t feel sorry for her at all and i really hope that one day she realizes what she has done to people. i really hope she lives to be 98 and is sitting in a nursing home and nobody comes and sees her . i hope she is in her wright mind also. that would not be enough of a punishment for her.   

[Ihope2]

I don't know if this helps much, but in examining myself these past few months, I was shocked to find that at the basis of all my codependency and propensity to trauma-bond with an unsafe, abusive partner, was a lifelong fear of having "nobody who is there for me".

I basically lost a healthy relationship with my father when I was 7 years (and never managed to salvage it to his death 18 years ago), and my mother was not a very emotionally stable woman and I became the parentified child in order to rescue her, so that she would not collapse, and would therefore always be there for me. Which of course, never happened.  And so I formed the pattern of choosing people in my life, whom I could rescue and prop up financially and emotionally so that they would be eternally grateful to me and always be "there for me".

And now, I need to realise that I cannot cling to this pattern any more, it does not serve me or anyone else.  I need to let go and forgive myself and others who have hurt me as much as I can and rebuild my life one small step at a time.  It is damn difficult, but it's the only way forward.

[thereishope]

I struggled for a long time with the question of what was deliberate, how much was calculated, how much was due to twisted rationalizations, etc. In the end I decided it doesn't matter. There are sympathetic and unsympathetic ways to try to account for the behavior of pwBPD. But in the end, it isn't about intentions, or motives, or explanations. It isn't about love, or hate, or indifference. It's all about behavior. In my case, I needed to get myself and our kids out of the way of behavior that was endangering our health and welfare. Emotionally, it was the hardest thing I ever did. But it was the right thing to do.

This is good stuff... .I have spent hours and hours trying to "figure out WHY" uBPDh has done what he's done... .But still feeling more and more like I want to just be away from it.  Now he is doing a little better, but I still want to go a lot of the time.

Very excellent point that the main idea is about BEHAVIOR, and what to do in the face of the BEHAVIOR.  Trying to figure out the WHYS or motives, etc... .is an endless exercise in insanity, I have found... .

Thanks for sharing.

[Loveofhislife]

I don't know if this helps much, but in examining myself these past few months, I was shocked to find that at the basis of all my codependency and propensity to trauma-bond with an unsafe, abusive partner, was a lifelong fear of having "nobody who is there for me".

I became the parentified child in order to rescue her, so that she would not collapse, and would therefore always be there for me. Which of course, never happened.  And so I formed the pattern of choosing people in my life, whom I could rescue and prop up financially and emotionally so that they would be eternally grateful to me and always be "there for me".

And now, I need to realise that I cannot cling to this pattern any more, it does not serve me or anyone else.  I need to let go and forgive myself and others who have hurt me as much as I can and rebuild my life one small step at a time.  It is damn difficult, but it's the only way forward.

Thank you, IHope2--your words have given me an important key: in a sense, this r/s (and others) and going back to FOO was a quid pro quo. If you love me, I will take care of you. I too was the parentified child with an unstable (probably NPD/BPD) dad and a co-dependent mom prone to addictions and depression to self medicate an abusive marriage. I was much younger than my siblings who characterized me as "the mistake" or "the bad seed". I have taken care of all my FOO--through dementia of both parents, and BPD sister and narcissistic husband of 25 years. They all have left me, like exbfBPD--somehow, he knew that would hurt me the most, and he wanted to hurt me. Why? It doesn't really matter. Attempting to care for my three adult children (two who have addictive disorders) makes me see how engulfing "caring" and clinging hurt us all. Time to heal... .

[Ihope2]

I wish you love and peace and healing as you go onwards, Loveofhislife.  It sounds like you have had a lifetime worth of upheavel.  When I read other accounts of a lost childhood it makes me really sad for that young child who was left to fend for him or herself, without stable, warm and loving adult guidance to nurture, protect and guide in healthy ways. 

May you be blessed and protected.

Ihope2