Stepping out of caretaker role

[sweetheart]

I've never really felt the need to argue with my husband, I realised v early in our relationship what BPD meant in terms of projection and splitting within the relationship. What I struggled with was having to stop myself 'talking through' issues with him, trying to find a solution that would make him feel better. I was also always trying to sort things out for him, which was really controlling, and I wanted to take responsibility for things he should have been doing himself, again really controlling.

I'm just learning to step out of my care taking role and I am no longer absorbing and staying with my dBPDhs chaos because that's what I thought was the best thing to do. This does not come naturally to me, I like to sort things out, hence my tight throat.

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[Indyan]

I've never really felt the need to argue with my husband, I realised v early in our relationship what BPD meant in terms of projection and splitting within the relationship. What I struggled with was having to stop myself 'talking through' issues with him, trying to find a solution that would make him feel better. I was also always trying to sort things out for him, which was really controlling, and I wanted to take responsibility for things he should have been doing himself, again really controlling.

I'm just learning to step out of my care taking role and I am no longer absorbing and staying with my dBPDhs chaos because that's what I thought was the best thing to do. This does not come naturally to me, I like to sort things out, hence my tight throat.

Yes, I relate 100% to this.

I hate conflict, but I do try (too much) to "find the answer to the problem", and I soon had to stop doing this. He reproached this to me so much... .but I guess he had to find something to justify his fits of rage.

[Moselle]

trying to find a solution that would make him feel better.

Why did you feel the need to make him feel better? I ask the question of you , but also of myself, because I have spent 13 of our 14 years trying to make my W feel better too.

My answer: Because I was, and still am "enmeshed". Why? because I feared the pain, what she was going to say/do, and I wanted to control it/her.

13 years of problem solving and trying, has made not one bit of difference by the way. I now find it bizarre that I kept pouring energy into the same thing, over and over, with absolutely no result - in fact it got worse!

[ziniztar]

13 years of problem solving and trying, has made not one bit of difference by the way. I now find it bizarre that I kept pouring energy into the same thing, over and over, with absolutely no result - in fact it got worse!

Hear hear. In two weeks time, I had a bf cheating on me and a father disapprovingly stating "Have you become one of those people." Simply because he crossed 3 boundaries in a row, that I normaly would have let go and now didn't. He would not accept that I didn't want to talk about something and kept JADE-ing while it was in the middle of the night and I was sleeping. This was the 2nd time I didn't follow his lead and this is what happened, after 28 years of trying to be the one child he didn't have to worry about.

I got a phone call from my brother on my birthday. That my dad had been crying all day because he saw I had left a whatsapp group. If there was something we could do to solve it. When I told my brother it really isn't my responsability to make him feel better and that it's his own problem he feels like this for a full day, my brother got mad at me for 'not wanting to calmly solve' the issue and sarcastically told me to have a happy birthday. Ah, the warmth and love in my FOO  .

So yeah I've come to realise all that work was for nothing and I better learn to bear the uncomfortable feelings of fear/obligation/guilt than continue down this one-way path of unhappiness, drama and misery.

[qkslvrgirl]

Well, Happy birthday, belatedly, Zinitzar 

I, too went through an episode yesterday with my uBPDh of 13 years; however, this time I did not suffer the pain of FOG.

I realized he was cycling into dysfunction after two attempts to recognize and validate his pain. After being blamed for his issues, I let go of any further communications.

I guess I just want to encourage all of us that once we become aware that other people are responsible for their own emotions and beliefs, we can emerge into a life of our own - free of FOG.

It does get better.

[sweetheart]

Moselle, I never felt enmeshed, but I believed if I filled the hole left by my husbands initial early trauma then I could love him all better. I thought if I just keep listening, problem-solving, analysing every aspect of what he was saying then I could put everything right for him. I thought that guitars, tattoos, holidays, gifts, would eventually replenish his empty. I believed that by being a loving wife with a lovely home and a beautiful son he would remain stable and well. He did manage for 3 1/2 years, with a little wobble when our son was born. He had his first major dysregulation in 2010, the police were involved, referrals to child protection were made, because our son was asleep in our home when it happened. My world turned upside down, but I kept doing the same thing.

It was only last year that I realised that I was complicit in his chaos. I never said no to him, not because I was scared, but because I believed it would hurt him like his parents had. I was so stretched from trying to accommodate his every need that I came to the sight running on empty.

So my progress has been slow but sure, it is only in the last three months that our lives are returning to some kind of normal. I have been stepping back from attending to my husbands every whim, word and whisper for about 6 months. I feel very different indeed, stronger, more energy, happier overall.

I realise that I put everyone's needs before my own, but such is that nature of this disorder that it just keeps on taking.

[Moselle]

I got a phone call from my brother on my birthday.

Happy Birthday from me too, Ziniztar  

Well, Happy birthday, belatedly, Zinitzar 

I, too went through an episode yesterday with my uBPDh of 13 years; however, this time I did not suffer the pain of FOG.

I realized he was cycling into dysfunction after two attempts to recognize and validate his pain. After being blamed for his issues, I let go of any further communications.

QSG, how did you decouple emotionally? I find that I can disengage physically, but still have that pit in the stomach - anxiety about what comes next. But also that I feel lonely for the length of the dysregulation, I can't speak to her and have a normal conversation, sometimes for days.

[sweetheart]

Just to say I still feel slightly stunned that I didn't realise I could just walk away from my husbands ranting and dysregulations, I thought he would think I didn't love him if I didn't listen. So I spent years validating really awful behaviour that I just sat there absorbing. Ironically I also spent years invalidating how he was feeling by care taking him so intensively.

[Indyan]

So my progress has been slow but sure, it is only in the last three months that our lives are returning to some kind of normal. I have been stepping back from attending to my husbands every whim, word and whisper for about 6 months.

You just ignore his moods basically, right? How did/does he react to this?

[Moselle]

I believed if I filled the hole left by my husbands initial early trauma then I could love him all better. I thought if I just keep listening, problem-solving, analysing every aspect of what he was saying then I could put everything right for him.

So glad, you've gotten over this! Me too. But I think you were probably more loving than me. I've got some Narcissistic in me that got validation from fixing stuff, and some real anger when I couldn't.

I thought that guitars, tattoos, holidays, gifts, would eventually replenish his empty. I believed that by being a loving wife with a lovely home and a beautiful son he would remain stable and well. 

I've spent alot of money too. Houses, cars, holidays, whatever she wanted. I remember buying her a luxury car. The afterglow lasted precisely 3 days and I remember saying to a friend. "I wish I could afford to buy her a car, or a diamond necklace or something every day, then she'd be happy... .This was before I know anything about this dynamic. And I think she's nuts . How crazy is that thinking?

such is that nature of this disorder that it just keeps on taking.

This is true, it does just keep on taking, but I've realized the choice is ours whether to give or not. And if I don't, she would say that I'm being stingy. My new motto is "I will give, if I have excess, and I want to give". I won't be coerced or FOGed into giving.

Ironically, I think it's probably kinder not to give. They have to learn to deal with it, separated from their parasitic host. Also, I realise that my needs were also parasitic (Ouch!)

[sweetheart]

Indyan that is what I do, i either do my own thing, or tell him i cant talk about something now, how about later, it is unlikely he will return to a subject later. he's easy to read now, and he has v clear triggers. His facial expressions and body language are super loud indicators of how he is feeling. When he is looking to pick a fight because he can't sit with his chaos, validation just doesn't work. It works when he is on an even keel.

He hates that I wont engage in the rant or the argument, there was a lot more escalation initially. He is now starting to realise that I won't sit with him and be his 'slop bucket' for negativity.

It's actually made things calmer, there have been fewer dysregulations. He tries hard though, following me around the house just to see if I will revert back to care taking him. 


Moselle your post is very honest and insightful. You sound self aware, but I know from experience being self aware does not necessarily mean we can actively break out of the dysfunction.

Do u have a therapist, Somewhere to take that anger?

You're right about it being kinder not to give all the time. I make a fuss Christmas and birthdays and it feels better for me. I also want to teach my son6 that things don't bring happiness, or take away pain. I recognised many of my care taking patterns from my FOO. My mother took on a care taking/controlling role with my father and us as children.

I posted somewhere else that I spent years in therapy working through issues with my mother, only to marry and repeat the same patterns. I believe for myself if I hadn't had therapy before I met my husband the marriage would have disintegrated before now.

I read also that you are still very hurt by your wife's outbursts etc. I read Moselle, 'When Hope is not Enough.' - for me it was amazing and helped me see that most of the time that what our SO is doing and saying has nothing to do with us. INAAY- It's not all about you  I say this in my head like a mantra and helps focus and ground me amidst his chaos.

[Moselle]

Sweetheart, your story has such a familiar feel to it. It's amazing how this stuff plays out in such similar ways in different people's relationships. Thanks for sharing your experience. I really helps me.

being self aware does not necessarily mean we can actively break out of the dysfunction. Do u have a therapist, Somewhere to take that anger?

I do have a therapist. She's been great. I see her about once a month or when I need to. I also believe, that mental fitness is the same as physical fitness. It takes daily effort, and its a personal choice. Same goes for my W

I also want to teach my son6 that things don't bring happiness, or take away pain.

I have woken up from a slumber in terms of parenting :-( Though I accept that I could not teach something I didn't know. I have been so caught up in this toxic relationship, that I have not been present enough for my kids. I had a discussion with my D13 today about her feelings, and realised she is as numb as I was 7 months ago. Poor thing has to live with all the #*&%$, her mother spurts out, through no fault of her own. It's alot to to ask from a teenager. OK, I can only change the present and the future.

I believe for myself if I hadn't had therapy before I met my husband the marriage would have disintegrated before now.

Do you mind if I ask why you stay?

I read also that you are still very hurt by your wife's outbursts etc. I read Moselle, 'When Hope is not Enough.' - for me it was amazing and helped me see that most of the time that what our SO is doing and saying has nothing to do with us. INAAY- It's not all about you   I say this in my head like a mantra and helps focus and ground me amidst his chaos.

Thanks, this is so helpful. INAAY, I did it today.

I am hurt. My anger is mostly directed at her parents for their attitude. They think they are absolutely the bees knees when it comes to parenting, and often give me and others unwanted parenting advice! Really!They are royal plonkers. And yes that is me judging them

My wife is eldest BPD/NPD, #2D is suicidal, #3D is antisocial disorder #4D cuts herself, I assume BPD #5D is normal as far as normal in the family could be, #6D is NPD... .her "clothes have feelings too". Yes, perhaps it's the lift doesn't go to the top floor.

If they couldn't look after one kid why did they have 6! More targets to abuse?

What's even more scary is that all of this was completely hidden from me for 10 years. Admittedly, we lived abroad and weren't involved with them at all for the first 10 years of our marriage.

We all have choices. They knew there was something wrong and chose not to address it. They decided to hide it, because of shame.

I don't see why I or our children need to be a target of W's projection. If she needs a spouse to be that, it's not me. Let her project onto a brick if she needs to, or her mother (now that's a good target!). Unfortunately, my children have a BPD mother, that's their lot in life. I am educating them to the realities of that.

[Indyan]

Indyan that is what I do, i either do my own thing, or tell him i cant talk about something now, how about later, it is unlikely he will return to a subject later. he's easy to read now, and he has v clear triggers. His facial expressions and body language are super loud indicators of how he is feeling. When he is looking to pick a fight because he can't sit with his chaos, validation just doesn't work. It works when he is on an even keel.

He hates that I wont engage in the rant or the argument, there was a lot more escalation initially. He is now starting to realise that I won't sit with him and be his 'slop bucket' for negativity.

It's actually made things calmer, there have been fewer dysregulations. He tries hard though, following me around the house just to see if I will revert back to care taking him.  

I read Moselle, 'When Hope is not Enough.' - for me it was amazing and helped me see that most of the time that what our SO is doing and saying has nothing to do with us. INAAY- It's not all about you   I say this in my head like a mantra and helps focus and ground me amidst his chaos.

Thanks for sharing your experience Sweetheart!

Funny you mention this book, I received it this morning by post. I just had a quick look at it and it looked interesting.

INAAY is something I try to remind myself of, but I have a question here.

How much importance should we put on the rubbish they say?

I mean stuff like "I'll send the notice for the house" or "I'll ask for Full Custody" etc.

I feel stuck between not paying attention to it, hence not making things worse VS acting upon it and pushing forward to our break-up.

Until now, everything I did that worked against what he said turned out to be positive (at least for some time), such as signing the lease and sticking to it (he threatened of canceling the new house just before moving in), he was really happy about the house for months on.

And things I did "agreeing" with his threats of break-up (actually telling the benefits I'm alone with the kids etc) drove him nuts.

I'm confused... .

[sweetheart]

Moselle I stay now because I want to stay. This last 20 months have been hellish, I said to myself that when he was discharged from hospital 8 weeks ago if he came out doing and being the same I would walk away. He knew this, it wasn't an ultimatum, it was an expression of what I no longer wanted in my life and the creation of some solid boundaries for myself.

I also stay because I now feel able to leave, I experienced a lot of fear and guilt about thoughts of leaving, but through support from this forum I was able to take the steps I needed to clear my head and make space for being on my own.

In relation to our son6, he is another reason I am happy to stay. Bizarrely he has a really loving reasonably ok relationship with his father. He's a beautiful, bright, well adjusted child thus far. He is my priority and I have worked hard to ensure that he has been protected from the worst excesses of this disorder. That's not to say as he gets older things wont change, if at any point he could not cope, or became the target of my husbands paranoia and rants I would leave without hesitation.

I also stay because he still is the love of my life, but that one thing alone kept me in the FOG way too long.

[vortex of confusion]

I have woken up from a slumber in terms of parenting :-( Though I accept that I could not teach something I didn't know. I have been so caught up in this toxic relationship, that I have not been present enough for my kids. I had a discussion with my D13 today about her feelings, and realised she is as numb as I was 7 months ago. Poor thing has to live with all the #*&%$, her mother spurts out, through no fault of her own. It's alot to to ask from a teenager. OK, I can only change the present and the future.

I have a 13 year old that has revealed the same thing. My husband is currently out of town and the kids have asked, "Is dad still going to be a jerk when he comes home?" That alone is helping me to step out of the caretaker role to some extent. How can I take care of somebody that is such a jerk to his own kids? How can I defend his action? Things are so much more peaceful around here. There is no worry about daddy coming home from work. The kids have started opening up more to me but there is so much damage with the kids that it is going to be an uphill climb to help them deal with all of this.

[sweetheart]

Sorry Indyan, I didn't see the last part of your post. Unless you want to break up with him, I would ignore all those threats.

Last week my dBPDh wanted to vent and dump on me because he felt bad, he didn't want validation he just wanted rid of his bad feelings. Because I wouldn't engage in this conversation with him ( I just did housework, school run then shopping ) he phoned his social worker and said I was making him so paranoid that he needed somewhere else to stay  When I came home he told me he was leaving in the morning, that his social worker was coming to get him, I just made some acknowledgement noise, he then shut himself away in the bedroom. I left him to it. Slept on sofa, went off next morning to school run then to my T. He phoned me 5 times, I didn't pick up but text him time I would be home. When I arrived home social worker had been and gone, husband changed his mind.

I then validated how awful he must have been feeling to want to leave home and asked praised him for accessing sw for support. Then said do u feel like watching a film together, which we did, holding hands

It's really, really hard work not responding to anxiety provoking comments about divorce, leaving etc. but if u can ignore them. Let him follow through or not on things. Have a contingency plan in the event he just disappears, or follows through on something. Do what you want for you and your family. What do you want for you and your children Indyan ? How can yours and their needs be prioritised so that you at least feel secure despite threats from your SO about custody, housing, money?

[Indyan]

My wife is eldest BPD/NPD, #2D is suicidal, #3D is antisocial disorder #4D cuts herself, I assume BPD #5D is normal as far as normal in the family could be, #6D is NPD... .her "clothes have feelings too". Yes, perhaps it's the lift doesn't go to the top floor.

We all have choices. They knew there was something wrong and chose not to address it. They decided to hide it, because of shame.

Today his father phoned me, asking to see his grandson *sigh*

He refuses to admit that his son is "ill". But he says things like "he's not well" (oh, really?), "he's seeing a therapist"... .and mainly when I tell him that he is "unstable", "can't control himself", he doesn't contradict me. That really drives me crazy, as the dad (and the rest of the family somehow) accused ME of being the reason he went mad. As if they didn't know he had a problem... .pfff... .

His mum has BPD (diagnosed as bipolar or depressive), she used to be extremely violent and her children suffered severe abuse. The dad is doormat, poor man.

#1 : big sister has been seeing T for 20 years, had a very violent husband. Her children suffer of Anorexia (D19) + Drug abuse and violence (S30).

#2 : BPD bf suffers from BPD & anti social behaviour

#3 : little sister has been seeing T for 5 years. She's very agressive and a control freak. Her husband's a doormat. I wouldn't be surprised if she was NPD.

I'm not saying everyone's perfect in MY family (100% NPD grandma/narcissic dad)... .but I'm starting to find my family exemplary now 

[Indyan]

I just made some acknowledgement noise, he then shut himself away in the bedroom. y?

and praised him for accessing sw for support.

LOOL!  

It's really, really hard work not responding to anxiety provoking comments about divorce, leaving etc. but if u can ignore them. Let him follow through or not on things. Have a contingency plan in the event he just disappears, or follows through on something. Do what you want for you and your family. What do you want for you and your children Indyan ? How can yours and their needs be prioritised so that you at least feel secure despite threats from your SO about custody, housing, money?

Thanks a million for this!  

In fact, the best I can do for the moment is avoid talking to him, so he won't reach me with his threats.

I know you're suggesting Qs for me to think about, but I'll still answer the best I can, as things are still confused in my mind - preparing my escape while trying to improve things too is not something I've quite become accustomed to yet... .

Custody: I have a first appointment with the lawyer on Tuesday. I think I won't do anything yet, just seek advice and make my file "ready just in case".

Housing: I've sent applications for council estate but for the moment I refuse to leave our house. I know that if I do, I'll resent him so much that nothing will ever be possible between us again (I've told him this).

Money: I've declared myself alone with the kids, while he's staying at his parents but still paying for our rent. He's very mad/sad about this, even said that we were a couple until september  

He's threatened to leave me with no money ("Use your savings" he said!) and kept telling his family and I that "we were done". Although I didn't believe him 100%, I had enough.

I've also just found a nanny for baby and will start working PT in a couple of weeks.

[sweetheart]

Oh Indyan good for you. I can't believe how much you are having to deal with. It's sounds like you too are in the UK 

For me having those exit plans calmed me and gave me strength. Making lists and sorting out my money helped me realise me and my son would be fine, poor but fine. For me this is the essence of what it means to truly step out of that care taking role, considering what you want.

Sending you lots of    and 

[Indyan]

Oh Indyan good for you. I can't believe how much you are having to deal with. It's sounds like you too are in the UK 

For me having those exit plans calmed me and gave me strength. Making lists and sorting out my money helped me realise me and my son would be fine, poor but fine. For me this is the essence of what it means to truly step out of that care taking role, considering what you want.

Sending you lots of    and 

I'm not far yes, I'm from France, but I have lived many years in the UK.

Oh yes, I'm stepping out of the caretaking role indeed.

I did so much for him - too much I guess, but I have no regrets.

Have you had to make use of any of your exit plans?

I think it's essential to make them understand they have no grip upon our lives in a bad way. That should  keep the NPD in them at bay... .that's what I want anyway.

But after trust is broken, can it ever be rebuilt? I wonder... .

[Moselle]

I admire both of your courage. To have to take these steps as mothers. Your's particularly Indyan with a newborn. I wish you all the godspeed, to make it work, It will work out.

Moselle I stay now because I want to stay. This last 20 months have been hellish, I said to myself that when he was discharged from hospital 8 weeks ago if he came out doing and being the same I would walk away. He knew this, it wasn't an ultimatum, it was an expression of what I no longer wanted in my life and the creation of some solid boundaries for myself.

I also stay because I now feel able to leave, I experienced a lot of fear and guilt about thoughts of leaving, but through support from this forum I was able to take the steps I needed to clear my head and make space for being on my own.

In relation to our son6, he is another reason I am happy to stay. Bizarrely he has a really loving reasonably ok relationship with his father. He's a beautiful, bright, well adjusted child thus far. He is my priority and I have worked hard to ensure that he has been protected from the worst excesses of this disorder. That's not to say as he gets older things wont change, if at any point he could not cope, or became the target of my husbands paranoia and rants I would leave without hesitation.

I also stay because he still is the love of my life, but that one thing alone kept me in the FOG way too long.

Kids are a big part of me staying. We both agree we don't understand what loving eachother is. But re trying to learn. I stay for today, realising that I decided that every day over 14 years. I don't know if I'll stay tomorrow.

[Indyan]

I admire both of your courage. To have to take these steps as mothers. Your's particularly Indyan with a newborn. I wish you all the godspeed, to make it work, It will work out.

Thanks 

I stay for today, realising that I decided that every day over 14 years. I don't know if I'll stay tomorrow.

Why? It seems that you refuse to feel engaged, as if that meant danger?

[qkslvrgirl]

Averyron,  asked an important question:

QSG, how did you decouple emotionally? I find that I can disengage physically, but still have that pit in the stomach - anxiety about what comes next. But also that I feel lonely for the length of the dysregulation, I can't speak to her and have a normal conversation, sometimes for days.

I suffered for years with exactly what you describe - the PITS (pit in the stomach) syndrome. It took years to find the answer; and when I did, it also made the day-to-day paranoia evaporate (as to stay or go).

I learned to first recognize that the transaction was all within me - in my mind; and then I found a brilliant strategy to dissolve it rather quickly 

It's not rocket science or incantations - it's a matter of pushing through the emotions / feelings with an awareness that you must stop tormenting yourself.

Quicksilver Girl