Anyone feels like they can relate to their ex with BPD? Maybe even feel guilty?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

We were in a rs for 9 months. In the beginning things were happening really fast and soon enough we both fell in love. To me it seemed like she was not ever truly understood by anyone before, and since I am a bit (over)sensitive I could really relate to her feelings. I also felt a lot of times that the people in my life don't or can't care as much about me as I do about them. Long story short, our relationship has made me really happy for the first 6 months, after that period we both had a lot of stress at work (we work at the same company). That is when I felt that we were drifting apart. Sometimes there were red flags popping up in my mind, which in hindsight seems like it could be NPD related. She told me about her childhood traumas, but I never really understood just how deep those thoughts and fears followed her through her life. She is now 32 (I am 31), and of course I thought she has "gotten over it". So it seems to me that sub-consciously she wanted people in this case myself, to understand her and she would open up about her anxiety and fears but consciously dreads people actually finding out what she is really like. So a lot of confusion for me is that I am not sure if it was actually a fear of abandonment, or a fear of engulfment that she was experiencing toward the end. She was the one who ended the relationship and only after we broke up and I tried to patch things up did I come to the conclusion that she most likely has BPD. In fact about two months after our bu did I start to understand what was going on, and until then I was completely broken up over this. I felt like I was a heroin addict and that I just wanted to be close to her and even that would feel better in some way. All this confusion came from her telling me the entire relationship that she is falling more in love with me everyday. Then she tells me when we had our first fight, that she doesn't want to loose me. Then two weeks later ended it with me. Said she needs to be alone and I felt that there was so much baggage from previous relationships and the past in general. Like she never works through her emotions, just tries to patch things up and fill the void.

I know I have been going back and forth in my post, it's because I have been reading so much about the disorder and re-evaluating constantly the things that transpired in our relationship. So I am a bit confused about certain things.

It definitely helps to understand that I deserve someone who actually can love me the way that I love them. And so the hurt seems a lot less, but at the same time I feel like this just wasn't fair, and for some reason feel like I will never love anyone the way I loved her. Just can't seem to be mad at her because it seems like I triggered her survival instincts, so she needed to push me away.

Can someone please help me with this?

I can be more specific on things but it has been going on for 3 months and I am really hurt, at times I even thought about suicide, which is so sad, because I have always been pretty happy with my life and these scare me because I know I would never kill myself. I want to approach her in the future in a healthy way, as I still care about her tremendously and as I said I see her almost everyday since we work together. She just completely cut me out of her life and is avoiding me in every way.

I know a lot of ppl here who have BPD are reading/posting I would love to hear your thoughts also.

[shellbent]

We were in a rs for 9 months. In the beginning things were happening really fast and soon enough we both fell in love. To me it seemed like she was not ever truly understood by anyone before, and since I am a bit (over)sensitive I could really relate to her feelings. I also felt a lot of times that the people in my life don't or can't care as much about me as I do about them. Long story short, our relationship has made me really happy for the first 6 months, after that period we both had a lot of stress at work (we work at the same company). That is when I felt that we were drifting apart. Sometimes there were red flags popping up in my mind, which in hindsight seems like it could be NPD related. She told me about her childhood traumas, but I never really understood just how deep those thoughts and fears followed her through her life. She is now 32 (I am 31), and of course I thought she has "gotten over it". So it seems to me that sub-consciously she wanted people in this case myself, to understand her and she would open up about her anxiety and fears but consciously dreads people actually finding out what she is really like. So a lot of confusion for me is that I am not sure if it was actually a fear of abandonment, or a fear of engulfment that she was experiencing toward the end. She was the one who ended the relationship and only after we broke up and I tried to patch things up did I come to the conclusion that she most likely has BPD. In fact about two months after our bu did I start to understand what was going on, and until then I was completely broken up over this. I felt like I was a heroin addict and that I just wanted to be close to her and even that would feel better in some way. All this confusion came from her telling me the entire relationship that she is falling more in love with me everyday. Then she tells me when we had our first fight, that she doesn't want to loose me. Then two weeks later ended it with me. Said she needs to be alone and I felt that there was so much baggage from previous relationships and the past in general. Like she never works through her emotions, just tries to patch things up and fill the void.

I know I have been going back and forth in my post, it's because I have been reading so much about the disorder and re-evaluating constantly the things that transpired in our relationship. So I am a bit confused about certain things.

It definitely helps to understand that I deserve someone who actually can love me the way that I love them. And so the hurt seems a lot less, but at the same time I feel like this just wasn't fair, and for some reason feel like I will never love anyone the way I loved her. Just can't seem to be mad at her because it seems like I triggered her survival instincts, so she needed to push me away.

Can someone please help me with this?

I can be more specific on things but it has been going on for 3 months and I am really hurt, at times I even thought about suicide, which is so sad, because I have always been pretty happy with my life and these scare me because I know I would never kill myself. I want to approach her in the future in a healthy way, as I still care about her tremendously and as I said I see her almost everyday since we work together. She just completely cut me out of her life and is avoiding me in every way.

I know a lot of ppl here who have BPD are reading/posting I would love to hear your thoughts also.

[Hawk Ridge]

My ex was a pwBPD. We have know each other since we were kids. I can relate to your post as I have extreme compassion for the suffering she endured then.  I have to work hard to take care of me in this balance as I too have experienced the despair you describe.  I love her more than I have loved anyone.  She left me 6 months ago today and I continue to experience the mixed feelings of wanting to be with someone who can be consistent in a mutual loving relationship while wanting to try again,hoping against hope she will love me enough to want to get better with DBT or CBT, wanting to do couples counseling.   My friends have watched me wither away in depression, hiding in my house crying and waiting for the phone ti ring.  They have heard me finally talk about how she isolated me, emotionally battered me, physically reacted to me by 'moving' me (i am much smaller than her) when impatient, giving me the silent treatment, and ultimately leaving suffering from major depression and anxiety.  I am an accomplished professional and I didn't see it - I have such shame that I couldn't see it.  My friends and family want me to close this door and move on but I continue to hold out hope... .part of that hope is based on my awareness and compassion of what she has been thru.  The upside: things are slowly becoming more palatable since reading the validation on these boards and finally talking out loud.  We WILL make it! Please accept my wishes of hope.

[tim_tom]

Yes, I can ... Now, Today... .The more of learned, shared and read common stories... It all makes sense, and fits in a nice a little box.

That being said, I can understand and have compassion, while also understanding these simple facts

1) She is ill

2) I was trying to have a healthy relationship with an unhealthy individual

3) That is not possible, in the past, present and future

So what am I wanting to go back to exactly?

[Hawk Ridge]

Great question.  I want to go back to who she was when things were good and comfortable because, and I think we forget this and our support network doesn't realize this, much of the time was good.  Much of it was loving. And then, it wasn't.   The intermittent reinforcement schedule is powerful.  It really wasn't all bad.  We were together for a year and a half with a breakup/recycle of three weeks in the middle. That's what messes with my head - it was really good much of the time.  I feel cheated that someone else us getting those times now but also knowing my replacement will face the same as she hears all about me as I heard all about the one before me.  Head scratcher for sure

[shellbent]

The same for me at first I thought she was just going thru a lot of stress, so I started to work on myself. The last month we were together I took a deep dive and ruined myself over a project that I was working on. I lost 12 pounds and didn't sleep and barely ate for 25 days. After this I was a shadow of myself, so I thought that is what made her want out. I had a pretty bad addiction before that for quite a while now, but honestly that didn't seem to affect my life as I have always been responsible and held my job, and am also good at what I do. On the other hand the things I did never seemed to bother her, she might have been worried about me at times, but never ever said anything bad about me. (idealization?)

So after I started taking care of myself, trying to make myself more attractive to her I realized that it just didn't matter to her at all. Then realizing that second stage I pretty much gave up hope and fell back to my addiction. It seemed like I had to choose between one or the other. If I was not doing one I would be trying to contact her constantly. (Like heroin) So of course that is when I started to realize this wasn't healthy. But it was so hard to accept it because she acts like a saint and deep down I just felt like she was perfect for me, we matched up in every way. So i guess I was making excuses for her. The only "abuse" I got from her though was the silent treatment. But she always still played along and (i guess suffered inside) wanted to please me. While in the relationship she was very respectful of my wishes and I guess trying very hard not to act on her internal desires. But I tried telling her that I wanted to hear her opinion and that I can't be a mind reader, and want her to be happy. This of course never happened, maybe she tried, but she was riddled with anxiety and fears.

So I realized she wasn't acting normal, or at  least how I would have expected anyone to based on my experiences. I took a few steps back and looked at myself. Then I kicked my addiction to the curb once more and suffered through it on my own. It was tough and after a while when I started to feel happy again, I went and read about NPD/BPD, then I realized everything fit together. Mind you this is when I started to feel even worse than before. I was digging myself deeper, finding out more about how a BPD feels inside, and I could completely relate to it because they weren't unfamiliar feelings. I started crying for days and could not control my emotions, it seemed like I had BPD, I realized that I am a true emotional empath. I really think i can feel other people's pain and feelings and sometimes it is so much to bear. But in all of that despair I can still look up smile and be happy, as I do not believe the things about myself that people with BPD do. It also leads me to believe that BPD feelings are in everyone to some extent, but then we can deal with them in ways the true BPD sufferer can not.

It makes me feel really deeply for them and makes me wish I could help somehow. But me telling someone that their life is worth living and I see the greatness in them and that I believe in them is not enough. They need to hear and see this from within.

[tim_tom]

Great question.  I want to go back to who she was when things were good and comfortable because, and I think we forget this and our support network doesn't realize this, much of the time was good.  Much of it was loving. And then, it wasn't.   The intermittent reinforcement schedule is powerful.  It really wasn't all bad.  We were together for a year and a half with a breakup/recycle of three weeks in the middle. That's what messes with my head - it was really good much of the time.  I feel cheated that someone else us getting those times now but also knowing my replacement will face the same as she hears all about me as I heard all about the one before me.  Head scratcher for sure

Well, why do you think she is BPD? If most of the times were good, and I know that these relationships are all over the map in terms of how they play out, maybe she's not?

Was she overly controlling/demanding?

Never happy/satisfied? Prone to impulsive behaviors to get her fix?

Were you afraid to express your needs/wants? Afraid to make a mistake - walking on egg shells

Frequently give you the silent treatment  or verbal abuse? Push/pull

Highly jealous?

Exhibit separation anxiety? (call or text bombs when apart?)

Did she isolate you from friends?

Was she overly negative and pessimistic? Did she think people hated her? You hated her?

Was she prone to Black and White thinking?

Was there an extreme idolization phase, rapid progress of expressing deep feelings... "be with you forver, love you more then I've ever loved?)

fwiw... I experienced all of the above, in spades and behind closed doors, but if you asked me 6 months ago I would've said everything was good, for the most part. Only after the relationship, in talking with a close friend and T did I consciously remember all of these things, pick them apart and ended up here at my T's urging (well not here, but researching BPD)

[Hawk Ridge]

Yes, Tim-tom, My experience was the same as yours, seemingly in 3 month intervals, 3 months white, 3 months black, and so on for 18 months yet I didn't see it.  I knew it was crazy making. I made excuses for her - she's stressed at work, the winter is brutal, she's sick, she's bipolar, she's depressed, etc.   i didn't help the situation nor did I cause or cure it.  Intermittent reinforcement of those off and on three months really messed with me so I see a T to work on me and I come to these boards to gain information from all of you sharing your strength, hope, and experience. Thank you

[shellbent]

Hang in there Hawk Ridge, you need to realize like I have, that there are many things worth doing in life, and that we cannot constantly be hoping for them to come back and see the things our way. That we were happy without them before we met them. I know there must be something about me that wants this dysfunctional dance to continue i think I am a "fixer" and the way that I attracted her was no accident. She told me she was so drawn to me, like a magnet or strings were pulling on her every piece. It was soo intense, it is even hard to explain. I guess that is what my ego wanted to know, that I can have that effect on someone.

Now everything I try with other woman seems like too much of an effort or a  hassle. But I should try to make myself more attractive to the healthier women out there. Those that don't really need to rely on somebody and have their lives together.

I think another part of this is I want to feel needed by someone. In some way that makes me feel like I am loved. I feel like I need to love someone,  that is who I am. And maybe it is not normal, but I really don't want to change that. I don't want to be addicted to it, I don't want to feel disappointed when I can't be there for someone. I am really looking deep into myself trying to heal whatever is not right within me. It should be primary before trying to heal her.

All I am saying is things keep getting better, 3 months ago I wan a complete mess. Felt like I was on my way to the loony bin.

Today I have hope, still some lingering feeling of sadness and missing what once was, but if that could happen then something better definitely can also.

I keep seeing my ex at work and the times she seems happy I don't want to feel sad that it is not with me, I know she was happy with me, but it is quite possible that she can never be truly happy unconditionally.

A lot of you had been thru a lot of abuse.

For me the only thing was silent treatment, retraction, and at the end confusion, avoidance, rejection,rejection,rejection,rejectionx100. She is very insecure, so hard to understand... .

[Bak86]

I can't relate to her problems, because i'm a healthy person, while she is not. And i don't feel guilty in any way. Told her multiple times to get help, she refuses. Her problem, not mine.

[shellbent]

Well, why do you think she is BPD? If most of the times were good, and I know that these relationships are all over the map in terms of how they play out, maybe she's not?

Was she overly controlling/demanding?

Never happy/satisfied? Prone to impulsive behaviors to get her fix?

Were you afraid to express your needs/wants? Afraid to make a mistake - walking on egg shells

Frequently give you the silent treatment  or verbal abuse? Push/pull

Highly jealous?

Exhibit separation anxiety? (call or text bombs when apart?)

Did she isolate you from friends?

Was she overly negative and pessimistic? Did she think people hated her? You hated her?

Was she prone to Black and White thinking?

Was there an extreme idolization phase, rapid progress of expressing deep feelings... "be with you forver, love you more then I've ever loved?)

fwiw... I experienced all of the above, in spades and behind closed doors, but if you asked me 6 months ago I would've said everything was good, for the most part. Only after the relationship, in talking with a close friend and T did I consciously remember all of these things, pick them apart and ended up here at my T's urging (well not here, but researching BPD)

In some way she had almost all these traits, but I was so much in love that I didn't realize them as strange. I mean my mind was saying red flag, but my heart was saying in love. I think from your list the ones that are not true for me might be realting more to NPD. The times I told her how much I loved her, she didn't seem to care about my emotions or even understand them it was like she had no empathy toward me and that she was being ruled by her fears and anxiety. Yes she told me she has loved me more then anyone before. More and more each day, etc... A lot of times it was like she was actually voicing here inner 5 yr old. She even used the voice of a child, so naive of me to think it was actually cute

But I truly felt needed by her and  I wanted to protect her.

I know what it is like to be highly sensitive.

[tim_tom]

Yes, Tim-tom, My experience was the same as yours, seemingly in 3 month intervals, 3 months white, 3 months black, and so on for 18 months yet I didn't see it.  I knew it was crazy making. I made excuses for her - she's stressed at work, the winter is brutal, she's sick, she's bipolar, she's depressed, etc.   i didn't help the situation nor did I cause or cure it.  Intermittent reinforcement of those off and on three months really messed with me so I see a T to work on me and I come to these boards to gain information from all of you sharing your strength, hope, and experience. Thank you

So then how was "much of the time " good?

[shellbent]

I can't relate to her problems, because i'm a healthy person, while she is not. And i don't feel guilty in any way. Told her multiple times to get help, she refuses. Her problem, not mine.

I guess there should be a definition of a "healthy person" in here somewhere.

I think we all have some issues, whether we see it or not.

I am not sure what your ex did to you, sometimes when they are "crazy" you don't want to deal with them at all. Like someone I knew before. Didn't want to relate. Still wanted the best for her.

To some extent it seems like you are holding a cold shoulder. Maybe you never cared for her then, because the very least I would expect someone in this case to have empathy or pity for the other party.

I understand you trying to protect yourself, I just wonder what she did

[Bak86]

I can't relate to her problems, because i'm a healthy person, while she is not. And i don't feel guilty in any way. Told her multiple times to get help, she refuses. Her problem, not mine.

I guess there should be a definition of a "healthy person" in here somewhere.

I think we all have some issues, whether we see it or not.

I am not sure what your ex did to you, sometimes when they are "crazy" you don't want to deal with them at all. Like someone I knew before. Didn't want to relate. Still wanted the best for her.

To some extent it seems like you are holding a cold shoulder. Maybe you never cared for her then, because the very least I would expect someone in this case to have empathy or pity for the other party.

I understand you trying to protect yourself, I just wonder what she did

I felt sorry for all of her problems when we were together, tried to help her as best as i could. Even after the breakup i tried to be as polite as i could, try to help her when she was sick or in need.

There is one problem with all of this. I simply don't know what she says is true or false anymore. I used to see her every day  at work and she's just looking for attention and acts like a person i don't know. When you don't want help from a person who actually loves you, then screw you. And i actually came to the realization that i can't help her, i'm not her caretaker or her therapist. And when she refuses to go, because in her mind she's perfectly fine, then so be it. I don't want to do anything with a person like that. She tried to drag me down, and succeeded. My self esteem had a HUGE blow. Now after a month or two, i'm the person i was before the relationship, a healthy confident person and having any involvement with her would jeopardize this.

[Hawk Ridge]

I am sure you are aware how painful this past 6 months has been for me, Timtom, so I am choosing to take your questions as supportive rather than challenging.  After what We all have been through, mutual support is the way to go. I hope I don't seem touchy or sensitive - it just really has been very painful.   I am 51 years old and we have known and been friends since we were children, becoming romantically involved almost 2 years ago.  I became very close to her and her family.  That's a lot of good and a lot of pain over the loss. This disease process is like any disease - it runs on a continuum.  The fact is: she has a borderline personality disorder possessing most of the bullet points you delineated and just doesn't present them all the time.  This is the reason intermittent reinforcement is so powerful. When the good times are good, they are amazing.  I was and, in many ways, deeply in love.  When they are bad, it is and was so incredibly brutal.  The question I have to ask myself is that should she come back to what was largely kind and positive relationship when she was good and I wasn't reacting to her change in behavior, what can I handle? Do I want to? I continue to work on me and to listen and learn.  Today, I don't know those answers and I don't need to because I am working on accepting that, for today, she is with someone else who undoubtably she has switched and will switch on and I am working on my relationship with me. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[shellbent]

I felt sorry for all of her problems when we were together, tried to help her as best as i could. Even after the breakup i tried to be as polite as i could, try to help her when she was sick or in need.

There is one problem with all of this. I simply don't know what she says is true or false anymore. I used to see her every day  at work and she's just looking for attention and acts like a person i don't know. When you don't want help from a person who actually loves you, then screw you. And i actually came to the realization that i can't help her, i'm not her caretaker or her therapist. And when she refuses to go, because in her mind she's perfectly fine, then so be it. I don't want to do anything with a person like that. She tried to drag me down, and succeeded. My self esteem had a HUGE blow. Now after a month or two, i'm the person i was before the relationship, a healthy confident person and having any involvement with her would jeopardize this.[/quote]
Yes I understand where you are coming from, I couldn't believe that she can't see how much I loved her.

But as it seems it is always about them never about us, so when we try to help somehow they feel like that is what we need. IT all gets twisted back in our face.

It is possible that yours is highly NPD. I'm afraid mines MPD and BPD meets somewhere that I cannot even begin to fathom.

The times when I would see that she had feeling is when she was mirroring them back from me.

Every other time the things she said were negative feelings about her self, intense rejections and how people are so much "smaller" then her. That she doesn't get appreciated enough and that she is always a victim.

To me it seemed like all her energy was into trying to hold herself together to get through the day. She sometimes worked 12 hours, while her colleagues finished in only 8 with the same amount of work.

After we broke up she was looking a bit out of herself, not really putting much effort into her looks, but whenever I did something nice to her she would seem to be a lot happier. Just minor things could change her moods.

After 3 months though she seems a lot more attractive than before.

[tim_tom]

Hawk, Yes, of course I am trying to help. By challanging the notions that are causing you so much pain.

A relationship that exhibits traits like I described is dysfunctional, unhealthy and abusive. It took therapy and a very good femake friend to pound that into my thick skull. I didn't want to believe it. Now I know it, and it's liberating to be honest. I am no longer sitting on the fence trying to figure out if I want her back or not. Maybe I could make it work now, knowing what I know. Rubbish

Fence sitting prevents healing, in your case , she is with someone else as you said... Literally pushing you off the fence

So hop off, take your first steps into your unknown future. It's scary, but it's the only option you have. Sitting on the fence and pining for her is only hurting you.

My deepest sympathies fwiw, I was exactly where you were 2 weeks ago. It's hard but accept this

1) She is ill

2) You were trying to have a healthy relationship with and unhealthy individual

3) That is not possible, not now, not in the past, not in the future

[Hawk Ridge]

Thank you, Tim-tom.  I do hear the love, the understanding, and the experience.  Step by step, day by day, we trudge through this. I do hear it :-)

[shellbent]

I am sure you are aware how painful this past 6 months has been for me, Timtom, so I am choosing to take your questions as supportive rather than challenging.  After what We all have been through, mutual support is the way to go. I hope I don't seem touchy or sensitive - it just really has been very painful.   I am 51 years old and we have known and been friends since we were children, becoming romantically involved almost 2 years ago.  I became very close to her and her family.  That's a lot of good and a lot of pain over the loss. This disease process is like any disease - it runs on a continuum.  The fact is: she has a borderline personality disorder possessing most of the bullet points you delineated and just doesn't present them all the time.  This is the reason intermittent reinforcement is so powerful. When the good times are good, they are amazing.  I was and, in many ways, deeply in love.  When they are bad, it is and was so incredibly brutal.  The question I have to ask myself is that should she come back to what was largely kind and positive relationship when she was good and I wasn't reacting to her change in behavior, what can I handle? Do I want to? I continue to work on me and to listen and learn.  Today, I don't know those answers and I don't need to because I am working on accepting that, for today, she is with someone else who undoubtably she has switched and will switch on and I am working on my relationship with me. Thanks for sharing your experience.

I have only known my ex for 13 months exactly. I have never felt so down in my entire life before, some of it could be that I hadn't fully let go of my father that passed away 2.5 years ago. Somehow when I try to peel thru the emotions it seems to me that I am just missing the feeling that I had with her. It was like for the first time in my life someone really got me and could reciprocate my feelings.

The hard and sad part is not knowing whether they were truly her feelings or not.

Was she just a master at manipulation, did she lie to me throughout the relationship? A lot of things that people are saying about those with NPD/BPD points to the fact that they all lie. It isn't to deceive you per se, it is mostly associated with keeping their self image. My ex told me that her previous boyfriend was still trying to get with her, when he has already moved on.

She was the one who had regrets leaving him after 5 years when our relationship didn't work out. She told me though that once she is done she is done. So in order for her not to feel rejected, she actually distorted her reality so much she said he was not over her(?) I just couldn't believe it, i saw in her eyes that is what she believed. So while they might have good intentions, they will still always find indirect ways to hurt us. Mine hurt me by avoiding all sorts of communication with me about the actual reasons for the break. I really think she had no idea, or was just afraid to admit to hear unrealistic fears. This is the hardest to accept. I just wanted to hear you are not enough xxx, or just are too xxx, but she never said anything. The best reason she could come up with was "it just didn't work out between the two people we were then". What the heck? And when she started telling me what a good relationship needed, she couldn't finish her sentence. She doesn't know. And I'm not kidding this happened twice before.

I can only imagine what you are going through Hawk Ridge, and I still keep wanting to believe that if I only knew I could have worked harder on the rs.

That things could be better. But we need to realize that unless they know about themselves and can accept that they are faulty, there is nothing we can do. And if they are the type who wants a doormat to be there anytime they need someone, then we need to get away from them because they might even know that they are abusing people and getting away with it.

My ex was good hearted, she didn't want to hurt anyone, but she has survival instincts that make her do hurtful things. And couldn't see that people cared about her.

[Loveofhislife]

 Fwiw( ) my exbfBPD just scored 100% on the criteria Tim Tom posted. And though I too am reading everything I can (and the best stuff is on these threads) I struggle with A LOT OF guilt. I should have known better--I recognized it early on. UNSELFISH love would have spent more time and energy on boundaries, holding him accountable, and encouraging him into treatment. Codependency has made me feel guilty about nearly everything--as did my FOO. Then, I had to hold my exbfBPD financially accountable after he dumped me and I had to dispute his credit card charges. He may be in a lot of legal trouble; his choice, and I wouldn't know because he went ST. But the guilt sucks.