Please help me help my daughter to cope before its too late...

[Our abuse recovery guide]

My 12 nearly 13 year old daughter has gone through bouts of being severe,y picked on by her dad, who I believe is BPD. He is obsessive over homework and since she was 6 would always find a way to tell her she hadnt worked hard enough, had made mistakes, accused her of knowing nothing comoared to her friends. If I tried to object or intervene I was accused of undermining his role as a father.

I left him two years ago, after suffering his emotional abuse on me and them. In the week before I left, he stopped talking to our daughter, showering our son with expensive gifts.

She is a very strong personality, and the most sweet loving girl, but can also be very violent, and today when arguing with her brother over a pencil she unleashed loads of horrendous swearing them proceeded to physically attack him then me. I banned her from her favourite tv show, and after attacking me I also confiscated her mobile phone for two days. She seemed to calm down, but this evening she attacked her brother and me again, I found it frighteneing, running towards me with evil eyes . I had to scream at her with anger to make her stop. She refuses to go to dentists, doctors etc, it is impossible to get her to leave the house. I can see this just getting worse and worse. My bod ex is no help, he is continuing the aggression himself when he sees them. I have not managed to have a civil conversation with him since I left. He refuses to discuss trying to work out a way to organize the children and minimizing the damage to him, he can only think about him and is own damage.

I know the only advice is for her to see a psychologist but how do I get her there at all? Anyone who has been through this with a child please help me, no one understands BPD in the country where I live... !

[Cmjo]

My 12 nearly 13 year old daughter has gone through bouts of being severe,y picked on by her dad, who I believe is BPD. He is obsessive over homework and since she was 6 would always find a way to tell her she hadnt worked hard enough, had made mistakes, accused her of knowing nothing comoared to her friends. If I tried to object or intervene I was accused of undermining his role as a father.

I left him two years ago, after suffering his emotional abuse on me and them. In the week before I left, he stopped talking to our daughter, showering our son with expensive gifts.

She is a very strong personality, and the most sweet loving girl, but can also be very violent, and today when arguing with her brother over a pencil she unleashed loads of horrendous swearing them proceeded to physically attack him then me. I banned her from her favourite tv show, and after attacking me I also confiscated her mobile phone for two days. She seemed to calm down, but this evening she attacked her brother and me again, I found it frighteneing, running towards me with evil eyes . I had to scream at her with anger to make her stop. She refuses to go to dentists, doctors etc, it is impossible to get her to leave the house. I can see this just getting worse and worse. My bod ex is no help, he is continuing the aggression himself when he sees them. I have not managed to have a civil conversation with him since I left. He refuses to discuss trying to work out a way to organize the children and minimizing the damage to him, he can only think about him and is own damage.

I know the only advice is for her to see a psychologist but how do I get her there at all? Anyone who has been through this with a child please help me, no one understands BPD in the country where I live... !

[Indyan]

Hi CMJO, may I ask where you live?

I come from France, and here BPD is really not well known, it's pretty hard to find a good therapist.

[Cmjo]

Im from the UK but live in Italy, i have found a specialist centre here, my ex went once but never went back.

[jmanvo2015]

My father is from Italy. Good luck getting Italians to realize that highstrung and highly emotional behavior is not just normal   

OK, I'm just kidding.  Where are you in Italy?  I have friends and family throughout the country and can see if I can find any resources for you.  But, on a serious note, it is a culture where emotionality is more common than in your native UK, so I'm not clear on whether BPD is a recognized illness there.  It's a good thing to look into.  It's my mother's side - the American side - that suffers from BPD. My Italian family, while highly emotional as well, is not quite as crazy in the same way.

I imagine that it is very difficult to see your daughter behaving this way and think that it's likely the combination of your ex's BPD aggressive behavior and probably her deep sadness and anger about the divorce.  I'm really sorry you're going through this. As the child of a violent divorce, my believe is that no matter how violent and angry she gets, she really is just looking for love.  So, where you might be prone to anger, trying really hard not to respond with anger, but rather with validation, compassion and love might help just until you can get her to see a therapist and then, hopefully, they'll have some answers for you.

I'm really very sorry you're going through this.  I can tell from your post that it's a very difficult and stressful situation.

[Harri]

Hi cmjo.  I wonder if the clinic your ex went to might know of resources for kids in your area.  Maybe try calling them and tell them about the history of your kids and about their father.

  I wish I could be of help.

My best to you and your kids.  This is so heartbreaking, but the good news is that you are aware and seeking help.   

[Cmjo]

I did find a specialist centre in Rome, and a doctor there who has collaboraed in the foremost studies on personality disorders in the country. Shame he was a bit dry and cold, not inspiring... .in himself.

I agree handling her with love and compassion is the way, but how do I react to her being so violent? Its hard because if I try to be understanding and not punish her, then my son thinks he can get away with it too, he complains  that I love her more! I didnt even mention that she had a rough time when born, and has facial deformities... .doctors thought she had a genetic syndrome.

I dont agree about Italians being emotional and highly strung, ive lived here 15 years and I think its a generalization... .sorry, and his BPD symptoms are not so much raging in public (mainly in orivate) but weird offbeat irrational behaviour somehow designed only to confuse and hurt those nearest him (like dciding to smash up our front wall and built a disabled ramp up to the house without any discussion with me and without any reason whatsoever!

Anyway my daughter is very closed and shut down to outside help. Im the only person in her life who understands her trauma, all the other family members just play it down, or suggest my mothering skills are at fault. I feel very alone, I would dedicate my life to getting the right help... .but Im also a single mum now and running a business... .! She has seen a psycholigist at school, once, who doesnt seem to have the time to dedicate to her any more... .the psych said she was so reserved and rigid that there was non getting through to her, that Inshould have intervened much earlier and would now have to wait till she becomes more self aware at say 16 or 17... .!

[jmanvo2015]

Have you ever been to an Italian soccer game?  My Italian cousins weep.  They cry.  They hug.  They jump.  I've seen American guys at football and they get really excited, but I've never seen them cry.

I love the emotionality of Italians.  I love it.  I don't think it's a bad stereotype or over-generalization at all. It's a passionate culture, and where BPDs are unable to control their emotions, or controlled by them, that's not the case with Italians at all. Italians are incredibly adept at coyness when it comes to emotional displays. 

I have also lived in Italy and my father and his family are from Rome, but maybe it was different for me because I was with my family and they are Italian and it sounds like you are there as an expat from another country and culture, so maybe you are not experiencing it the same way.  Are you Italian at all? Was your husband an Italian?

In any event, I wish you the best finding resources for your daughter and I will ask my family if anyone has heard of BPD and any treatments in Rome.

[Cmjo]

Thanks for your support, I really appreciate it... .would be great if you can find out anything... .I am pretty integrated my exBPD is Italian, and the kids are bilingual, they were born here. In my exes case, I suppose my Dad used to put his raging down to his nationality... .he would shout "oh stop all this  italian opera drama!" But it stops there... .non of my family are interested in the personality disorder aspects... they are justbbewildered so its easier for them to put it down to a cultural trait!

.his father has always been very symoathetic and although he is devastated by the breakup says I did the right thing. His sisterr actually came to the BPD clinic with me, by the way its called Terzo Centro, have a look at the website.

[jmanvo2015]

As terrible as it sounds for me to say this, being 50 percent Italian myself, I'm very sorry to hear that your exBPD is an Italian.  My father is Italian and he is so difficult and while not BPD he is totally NPD and I think ( and yes, I'm generalizing here) that many Italian men are pretty N - narcissistic -- and that the Italian culture in general supports that kind of male narcissism.  He actually might be a little bit BPD, too, but not as bad as my American mom.

So, when I say that I'm sorry for you, I mean because if you're in Italy then I imagine you may be facing a lot of what I face with my Italian family.  They take his side.  The man abandoned me for most of my life, is on his fifth wife who is only 3 years older than me, and has been a really lousy father and somehow my nonna (è morta due anni fa) and cugini will still make excuses for him. Oy.  Around the world people think Italian men are so affascinante, giusto? But when it's your father or your husband - well, we know the real deal 

I am glad you posted this thread because you have gotten me thinking about how my Italian family might react to me telling them about my mom's uBPD, which I am also just learning about.  I am wondering if they would even understand this.  While they are emotional, they don't do a lot of the stuff that BPDs do, like sabotaging relationships. In that respect they are much more clever, strategic and controlled. 

As it turns out, I know a lot of people that have businesses in Rome and even a few of my clients.  I just have to figure out how to ask this question without having to explain to them why I'm asking or revealing any personal info about my own struggles with BPD.  But I will think on that and will keep in touch with you.  I have an email you can write to me at if you would like to stay in touch.  I am in Italy once or twice a year - maybe we could start a support group    jenjenjen2017 at yahoo com.

A presto!

[jmanvo2015]

Oh wait, I am just re-reading your post and you say that your father-in-law and husband's sister support you.  That is very good.  I find that sometimes I get my Italian family's full support and at other times with my NPD Italian dad they seem totally into him.  It seems to just depend on what is going on in their personal relationships with him.  But if your ex's family is supporting you -- you are very fortunata! 

This is a random aside, but there was a famous Italian psychiatrist whose work might interest you:

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Assagioli

[jmanvo2015]

Cmjo - sorry for the multiple messages here.  I definitely got distracted by the fact you live in Italy and it brought up all my "stuff" related to that culture.

However, returning to your daughter.  You mentioned that she had some difficulties and a disability an this likely caused great trauma for her.  So, the divorce, your husband's uBPD and then also that is a lot for a 13-14 year old girl.  My heart is really going out to her because I have dealt with a lot of the same.

I am wondering if you know about DBT therapy?  Even if you're unable to find a T right away, i wonder if perhaps getting a DBT workbook and spending time with your daughter to go through some of the exercises might help? 

Here is an example of a DBT book geared towards teens:

www.amazon.com/Dont-Your-Emotions-Life-Teens/dp/1572248831/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1411859886&sr=8-5&keywords=dbt+workbook

Anyway... .un'abbraccio.  I'm very sorry for you that you're so worried about her and having to deal with all of this.

[Cmjo]

Thanks Jen, i looked at the link for the books and I will definitely order... .! Npd BPD really are secret words, very rare to find other people who have researched it and have real insight, in the real world I mean outside this forum! In italiano its disturbo di borderline, my ex was seeing a therapist for a year after I left, who I spoke to and met a couple of times, she confirmed he was ill, was worried when he left therapy, and although she would not put a BPD label on it she did refer to his severe abandonment issues, and terapia cognitiva.

[Indyan]

Thanks Jen, i looked at the link for the books and I will definitely order... .! Npd BPD really are secret words, very rare to find other people who have researched it and have real insight, in the real world I mean outside this forum! In italiano its disturbo di borderline, my ex was seeing a therapist for a year after I left, who I spoke to and met a couple of times, she confirmed he was ill, was worried when he left therapy, and although she would not put a BPD label on it she did refer to his severe abandonment issues, and terapia cognitiva.

I can only warn you against finding a therapist that is not good.

Here, in France, I/we had to contact/see 10 of them before finding the right one (!).

My uBPDbf has even been to the psycho ER twice... .and walked out with no medication and no diagnosis (apart from "you suffer from r/s problems"!). This in fact did a lot of harm to us, to him. He was looking for help and got none. I know it's because he saw himself as the victim, but they should have been able to read through that.

Anyway, recently I gathered some info on the web, and it turned out there are 2 national BPD associations, they provided me with a list of therapists across the country who specialize in BPD. I went to Paris and met one, we was great. Understood everything, very empathetic yet firm in a way. He confirmed "my" diagnosis too... .BPDbf is going to see him tomorrow.

Have you search the internet for an equivalent association/organization in Italy?

If you live in Rome, there ought to be someone who will be efficient.

In a book on BPD that I read recently, it says "Finding a good T is as hard as finding a good job".

It takes time to find him, don't rush, that's my advice.

Good luck  

[jmanvo2015]

Thank you CMJO for teaching me the Italian words for these things 

[funfunctional]

oh boy.  She's in trouble.   VERY ANGRY! 

You need some team building to happen between you and your two kids.   Find a counselor for the 3 of you to go to and I would make the appointment and just make her go.  It is a positive thing.  The counselor is going to help her work thru the divorce and also the counselor is there to help you as a parent.  So the counselor is for everyone.  Not just for her.

Your x sounds like he is devisive and a divider and rather mean and negative.    Although she is strong she needs to find someone to talk to and share her feelings with.   That could be you.   Maybe? Those need to get banged out like a big old burp.    I had problems with my son witholding emotions at age 13 and I poked the hell out of him one night until he cried and burst wide open.    But that was my kid and every kid is different.   

13 is a tough age!

Talk, love, tough love,  stand your ground,  show and display that you have the power to stay in charge and damn it... .you ARE in charge.  Life may seem like chaos to them with their whole world turned upside down.    But you are going to work on getting that world to be right side up again.    Keep a schedule.  Have expectations.  Family meeting.  Make it clear that life is going to change and you're going to lead that.  I have been parenting my two alone for several years now and WE are a team.

I hope my rant was helpful.    I feel for you!     

[gentlestguardian]

Psychiatry/counseling is definitely necessary, but in the meanwhile, I think it's really important that you get your daughter to express her truth somehow. From what you described, she's likely experiencing extreme inner turmoil over her own self-esteem and identity, and it's coming out as rages. Can you get her involved in a sport? Can you ask her difficult questions to get to the heart of what's causing her this grief? She may not answer the questions immediately and she'll likely push you away when you ask her, but once the questions are out there, she'll think about them. Give her support and encouragement about her strengths and her importance in to the family. And I don't know how possible this is, but I'd probably keep her away from uPBDd for a while. She needs to be able to make sense of herself and her identity and it doesn't look like she's getting the mental space to do that with her father putting her down. I really feel for your daughter. I hope she can find some peace.

[Cmjo]

Incredible rant thank you, and great support and ideas.

I agree we are a good unit as a three, now as I write this they are dancing together to pop videos, and singing like She's on stage  really brings out her inner character, she is in heaven. Its complicated isnt it, but as she has had problems all her life its not easy. I cant get her to leave the house to go to the dentist, she gets violent and hysterical. Counselling I would have to lie to get her there.

Every time I try to calm things and boost her confidence her Dad comes along and tries to ruin everything, insisting he is doing out of love for her, that she has to do sport... .he took her to her old gymnastics school on Monday, it was his day to pick her up, he hadnt mentioned to me what he was planning, she was asleep in the car and he got the teacher to come out and beg her to come back to the class, I can imagine she was humiliated that she was forced into it like that, she did 3 years of gymnastics including tournaments but shes much taller now and said it wasnt for her anymore so I was helping her get into tennis. The next day, when she told her Dad she didnt want to do gymnastics again he raged, both my kids were crying and rang me, he unleashed a rant of swearing and smacked her, I was out of town about to go to a work meeting, it was just so worrying. Later that evening they had all calmed down, but there are often incidents like this. He cant express himself apart through raging, and he doesnt know how to listen to his children or talk about what they want, or whats actually best, just enforces his ideas, then defends himself as being severe to get results!

I feel I get closer to my kids every day that goes by. They know I am someone who likes to talk about and analyze feelings, they might not be that forthcoming but I try to touch on difficult subjects every now and then when we are one to one, sometimes they clam up, sometimes it pours out. Thanks again guys.