Why not able to see or accept thier own role?

[nightmoves]

So - at end of rope on this aspect or behavior.

It seems that my BPDw is CONSTANTLY... .finding some issue to unload on me about with anger, rage, blame, etc... .of which the issue actually emanated out of something SHE did.

Although I have gotten MUCH better at seeing the impending storm coming on MOST things... .it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to simply stand there and get pummeled when there is SUCH an OBVIOUS ENTIRE story to grasp. That INCLUDES her role.

It is almost like they HATE to see their role. HATE to look at things in a calm and rational manner. It has gotten SO BAD... .that she also is UNWILLING to listen or accept or even PROVE that what she is ranting about is NOT as she sees it.

It is almost like they WANT to believe even the MOST implausible reason behind something when the ACTUAL is EASILY there to be seen. AND the one that they WANT to believe is the one they see as YOU at fault and to blame.

WHY is this? DO they actually at times WANT... NEED... .DESIRE... .to hate you?

DO they NEED to paint you black SO BADLY ... .that they even conjure up the most preposterous thinly strung together reasons?

Things can be going along fine on any given day when all of a sudden she will walk up to me with some FURY about some issue that is YEARS gone by. Somehow that issue has gotten into her mind... .and it is like she is FURIOUS about it. Here is the CRAZY thing... .the issue has LONG ago been proven to either be no ones fault OR even if there was joint "fault"... .I (for my part) have DOZENS of times over the years... .talked about it... .expalined it... .apologized over it.

When this explodes ... .again... .over something that she somehow has yet to get over from 10 years ago... .I am

1. Shocked that here we go on this AGAIN?... .and after a great day

2. Stunned that she is acting as though we have not long ago figured this out

3. Refuses to see that LONG ago - HER ROLE in it.

I stand there an incredulously let about 30 minutes of hammering go by ... .at me... .and blame. Until I cannot take it anymore and I get logical and rational with her.

And (yet again) try to calm her down with logic and facts/reality.

She gets even ANGRIER.

I may not be explaning this clearly enough... .but a simply analogy.

Lets say that 10 years ago ... .she was FURIOUS over me coming back from an errand with news that the store was closed.

She would rage at me and call me an assortment of names and throw hate and blame.

AND does not BELIEVE me that the store was closed.

SHE WOULD NOT SIMPLY LET ME SHOW HER THE POSTED HOURS! THAT would stop the rage at me... .

Won't even LOOK at it.

AND... .the entire reason I was going ... .was that SHE forgot something... .

So IF I say ... .stop yelling at me... .I am not the one who needed the item or forgot it in the first place... .results in MAJOR RAGE.

I ramble here... .but WHAT IS IT that seems like a pwBPD... .REFUSES to EVER see things as they are. REFUSES to see their role. AND instead INSISTS on simply being FURIOUS at YOU?

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[enlighten me]

A lot of the time what they are raging about isn't the real issue. It could have been something minor from the day before that seems silly even to them but has got under their skin so they need to have a release.

One thing I have read on BPD sites is that when they are raging common sense and facts don't work and are fuel to the fire. Validation or walking away does work.

[waverider]

It is not unlike volcanic activity. The rocks and lava are the issues raining down on your head. They are not the driving force. That is deep inside and is the result of pressure building that needs a release.

Arguing the issues is like trying to stuff the rocks and lava back into the volcano. It just increases the pressure and it blows the side out of the mountain.

Their own conscious has little control of this, they are the mountain and the pressure is coming from deeper and needs to pass through and out.

I may not be explaning this clearly enough... .but a simply analogy.

Lets say that 10 years ago ... .she was FURIOUS over me coming back from an errand with news that the store was closed.

She would rage at me and call me an assortment of names and throw hate and blame.

AND does not BELIEVE me that the store was closed.

SHE WOULD NOT SIMPLY LET ME SHOW HER THE POSTED HOURS! THAT would stop the rage at me... .

Won't even LOOK at it.

AND... .the entire reason I was going ... .was that SHE forgot something... .

So IF I say ... .stop yelling at me... .I am not the one who needed the item or forgot it in the first place... .results in MAJOR RAGE.

Not having her immediate needs met leads to frustration and heightened emotion. She cannot regulate this, it has to come out. You defending yourself is like blocking her only regulation/venting method. She pushes harder, it is no longer about the store being closed it is now about you blocking her coping ,mechanism. This is why it can switch topics, as it is now about emotional release not the fact that the store is closed.

[formflier]

I stand there an incredulously let about 30 minutes of hammering go by ... .at me... .and blame.

30 minutes is way too long.  Do some thinking and reading of lessons about how you can let this go for a minute or two... .and then if lessons are not working... .move along to something else.

[Take2]

It is not unlike volcanic activity. The rocks and lava are the issues raining down on your head. They are not the driving force. That is deep inside and is the result of pressure building that needs a release.

Arguing the issues is like trying to stuff the rocks and lava back into the volcano. It just increases the pressure and it blows the side out of the mountain.

Their own conscious has little control of this, they are the mountain and the pressure is coming from deeper and needs to pass through and out.

I may not be explaning this clearly enough... .but a simply analogy.

Let say that 10 years ago ... .she was FURIOUS over me coming back from an errand with news that the store was closed.

She would rage at me and call me an assortment of names and throw hate and blame.

AND does not BELIEVE me that the store was closed.

SHE WOULD NOT SIMPLY LET ME SHOW HER THE POSTED HOURS! THAT would stop the rage at me... .

Won't even LOOK at it.

AND... .the entire reason I was going ... .was that SHE forgot something... .

So IF I say ... .stop yelling at me... .I am not the one who needed the item or forgot it in the first place... .results in MAJOR RAGE.

Not having her immediate needs met leads to frustration and heightened emotion. She cannot regulate this, it has to come out. You defending yourself is like blocking her only regulation/venting method. She pushes harder, it is no longer about the store being closed it is now about you blocking her coping ,mechanism. This is why it can switch topics, as it is now about emotional release not the fact that the store is closed.

Thank you Waverider... .  that's a really good analogy to keep it in perspective... .

[nightmoves]

Waverider... .thank you ... .brilliant.

[Sylvia76]

This sounds just like my story... .

When my uBPD boyfriend gets stressed about anything at all he finds something to give me a hard time about.

We are in the process of moving and he's choosing to pick on me or be critical of me about everything.

I am only allowed a small space in our current home for my clothes. When I iron my work clothes for the week I have nowhere to put them other than hanging in the basement.  If I put them in his closet he get upset that I'm "mushing" his things, he has given me a hard time for hanging them on door knobs in the past. I have nowhere to hang my work clothes... .yet last night he was furious with me for it because some of the cabinets Inside) down there are moldy and I'm hanging my clothes on the OUTSIDE of them.

We are moving in 3 days so 3 days isn't a huge deal... .

Now he won't speak to me because "I wasn't thinking".

I also got a tirade about not pushing my ex-husband harder to sign the divorce papers, the fact that he doesn't think I've done enough packing (my daughter and I have so little there I was able to pack in a day), whispering at the dinner table and more.

He doesn't see that he's unapproachable about subjects and he doesn't remember all the past times he gave me a hard time about the clothes (he created the situation where I have nowhere to put them).

Now he won't even speak to me to let me explain that and he thinks I need therapy to address my issue of not being able to stop talking when he does this to me.

Is there any way I can get him to accept responsibility or recognize his own actions?

[steev]

This thread evokes a lot of memories of "episodes" I have gone through with udpdw for over 20 years. Maybe we can have a thread here on absurd reasons for rages, seething anger, projections, and guilt foisted on us nons from our spousal entities. I have more than a few that will make for major head scratching and maybe some laughs.

Ok I digress. Through couples and personal therapy for the last 15 years that I have a handle what  causes such absurdities. Can't fix it, but know when it is coming, an acquired skill knowing how out of control they feel emotionally and when an opportunity comes along (me) they take it out on you. This gives them temporary relief that it isn't them, it is you pulling a stunt, like carrying a grocery bag the wrong way.

Ya, I know, BPD 101.

Here goes, what I really have not figured out, is why can't they feel ANY pain they are inflicting on you? Hugely damaging to you and the relationship. They preach lack of empathy from you, but they have NONE for you.

Sorry for not getting to the point in a brief manner, just need to show where I am coming from I guess.

[waverider]

Is there any way I can get him to accept responsibility or recognize his own actions?

Not without imposing your own boundaries and consequences. This level of domination can only be achieved with your cooperative submission. That is ultimately your choice.

Being afraid of conflict and not having the skills to deal with it are your biggest concern, as he will continue pushing if there is no resistance. You are teaching him this is OK.

[ColdEthyl]

Nightmoves I've had similar issues. If he's upset about one thing, it's not unusual for him to drag up some crap from months ago he was previously upset about. He's upset at one thing, and needs to just... .get it out. That sometimes takes the form of previous grievances. I listen, and I calmly say something like "Yes, I remember how upset that made you." or "It WAS total BS... .etc" and leave it at that. Don't bother saying anything like you don't do that thing anymore, or you haven't done it since. Waste of time.

[maxsterling]

Even worse is when he/she sees another person doing the same thing that he/she does to you, and gets upset at this other person, never acknowledging that he/she does the same thing. Right now my fiance is upset at her 13 year old cousin for being disobedient, the same way she was at 13.

[MissyM]

Even worse is when he/she sees another person doing the same thing that he/she does to you, and gets upset at this other person, never acknowledging that he/she does the same thing.

Oh, my dBPDh does this with the kids.  He is just indignant if they aren't respectful to him or become emotional and irrational.  Uhm, he behaves the same way but they are children and come out of it quickly.  He is getting better at recognizing this.  He will point something out and I just stay quiet, then he gets this look on his face of awareness and says he understands what they are going through.

[Moselle]

A lot of the time what they are raging about isn't the real issue. It could have been something minor from the day before that seems silly even to them but has got under their skin so they need to have a release.

One thing I have read on BPD sites is that when they are raging common sense and facts don't work and are fuel to the fire. Validation or walking away does work.

What I like about this is we are taking control of our life and in my experience this works. One addition is in the case where there is NPD as well. My SO has both and she throws the validation back in my face and calls it "fairy talk". What works for me in this case is to 'not invidate' ie bite my very able tongue, but also name the manipulation. If she's playing victim. I tell her to 'stop playing victim'. Or "I can see you are paying the guilt game" . It's best to withdraw after this and give them some time to calm down. If she tells me something like "Go and find some other woman" I thank her for the 'relationship advice' and ask her for any recommendations

It is easy as the non BPD spouse to play victim too. Some good questions to ask ourselves. Why am I standing here accepting this? What can I do to preserve my self esteem?

Remember it is a choice to accept what they are saying about us. I've tried repeating in my head INAAY. Its Not All About You. Also taking two deep breaths before I respond saying 'Let it go, Let it go". I find this gives me time to engage my brain before I respond in an emotional way.

[waverider]

Rather than think "How can I fix them" try" How can I avoid being affected by this behavior?'

Going back to the topic title it is about clearly demarking your own role. This is not the same as fairness or equal share. It is about what you are happy to do without creating resentment.