Is it worth it to even ask her to loosen the financial noose?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Obviously, none of you can answer this perfectly because none of you know my uBPDexw personally, but I'm still here to see if I can gain some perspective.  I've been divorced for two years, and we had one 9 month recycle after the divorce.  I pay her a good amount of child support (more than the state calculations require) plus spousal support.  I agreed to those numbers for a few reasons.  First, I was afraid of her.  I was kicked out of my own house because of a b/s restraining order she got on me, and I lived in my car or on friends' couches before finally getting into a small apartment that my parents thankfully paid rent for.  The morning she filed that, she stole my credit card out of my pants and used it to retain an attorney for herself.  She said she did it because I was not "working with her" and she didn't trust what I might do, like try to kick her out and file for custody of the kids (which I did before when we nearly divorced two other times). I eventually appealed to the part of her that wants to be liked, and that is how we worked "amicably" to come to this settlment, but I know from lots of experience that if she feels threatened, she will lie, cheat, and steal.  And second, I just wanted to get away from her and get it over with as quickly as possible, and part of that meant trying to work amicably with her.  Anyway, I have enough money to pay my bills and sometimes do a few fun things.  But I am having a hard time getting out of debt.  I paid off her car, and she immediately traded it in and got another car with a car payment.  She got a puppy.  She has bought hundreds of dollars of new clothes for our kids and for herself.  She smokes again (expensive habit), etc.  Meanwhile, I have holes in my shoes.  I have two pairs of pants that I wear.  And she asks me to contribute by buying something simple like shoes or gloves for our kids.  I tell her that I cannot afford it.  I can't.  I just had to borrow money from my father for auto repairs and then I tore a hole in my tire, so I'm riding around on my spare.  I don't have money for new tires, and I won't until I do my tax return in February.  I'm budgeting very carefully and saving money so that I can buy birthday and Christmas gifts for our kids, but I'm otherwise on a very, very tight budget.

I asked her probably two months to loosesn the financial noose.  I tried to ask kindly.  She replied by telling me that I'm basically selfish because she's "just getting on her feet."  She still lives in her sister's house.  My kids hate it over there.  And most of her furniture is in my garage.  I told her kindly that she needs to get her things out of my garage, that I want my garage back, and she agreed... .but nothing has happened, of course.

So, she asked me today (actually, she had my daughter ask me) to get gloves for my daughter, now that mornings are getting cold.  I cannot afford to do anything until I get paid next.  And it makes me HATE her.  It's almost like we are still married... .she rapes me financially, taking advantage of my hard work, while she parites and humps other guys.  

My options don't seem like good ones:

1. Let it go and realize that in 5-6 years I won't have to pay her a red cent any more.  The downside is that in the meantime my kids are growing up and I cannot afford to do almost anything with them.

2. We have been getting along fairly well, friendly, lately, so I could try again to ask her.  I am fairly sure she would answer in the same way.  Is there a good way to ask that will not trigger her to think that I'm being selfish (which is obviously projection)?

3. Take her to court.  This likely means getting a lawyer, costing me a few thousand dollars that I do not have -which I would have to borrow from my parents.  It doesn't seem worth it... .to spend money in order try and recoup some money.

Is it even worth it?  Thoughts?  I have a very hard time letting go of this.  Every time something happens (blown tire, some other emergency) where I am completely unable to afford anything and completely thrown off financially, I am triggered and want to rip her face off.  Every time she asks me to contribute to a gift or to clothing for our children, I want to destroy her.  But legally fighting her just seems too daunting.  She is a snake, and I don't know that it would be worth it unless I was also fighting for custody and something like 75% parenting time (right now we have joint custody and 50/50 parenting time).

[OutOfEgypt]

Obviously, none of you can answer this perfectly because none of you know my uBPDexw personally, but I'm still here to see if I can gain some perspective.  I've been divorced for two years, and we had one 9 month recycle after the divorce.  I pay her a good amount of child support (more than the state calculations require) plus spousal support.  I agreed to those numbers for a few reasons.  First, I was afraid of her.  I was kicked out of my own house because of a b/s restraining order she got on me, and I lived in my car or on friends' couches before finally getting into a small apartment that my parents thankfully paid rent for.  The morning she filed that, she stole my credit card out of my pants and used it to retain an attorney for herself.  She said she did it because I was not "working with her" and she didn't trust what I might do, like try to kick her out and file for custody of the kids (which I did before when we nearly divorced two other times). I eventually appealed to the part of her that wants to be liked, and that is how we worked "amicably" to come to this settlment, but I know from lots of experience that if she feels threatened, she will lie, cheat, and steal.  And second, I just wanted to get away from her and get it over with as quickly as possible, and part of that meant trying to work amicably with her.  Anyway, I have enough money to pay my bills and sometimes do a few fun things.  But I am having a hard time getting out of debt.  I paid off her car, and she immediately traded it in and got another car with a car payment.  She got a puppy.  She has bought hundreds of dollars of new clothes for our kids and for herself.  She smokes again (expensive habit), etc.  Meanwhile, I have holes in my shoes.  I have two pairs of pants that I wear.  And she asks me to contribute by buying something simple like shoes or gloves for our kids.  I tell her that I cannot afford it.  I can't.  I just had to borrow money from my father for auto repairs and then I tore a hole in my tire, so I'm riding around on my spare.  I don't have money for new tires, and I won't until I do my tax return in February.  I'm budgeting very carefully and saving money so that I can buy birthday and Christmas gifts for our kids, but I'm otherwise on a very, very tight budget.

I asked her probably two months to loosesn the financial noose.  I tried to ask kindly.  She replied by telling me that I'm basically selfish because she's "just getting on her feet."  She still lives in her sister's house.  My kids hate it over there.  And most of her furniture is in my garage.  I told her kindly that she needs to get her things out of my garage, that I want my garage back, and she agreed... .but nothing has happened, of course.

So, she asked me today (actually, she had my daughter ask me) to get gloves for my daughter, now that mornings are getting cold.  I cannot afford to do anything until I get paid next.  And it makes me HATE her.  It's almost like we are still married... .she rapes me financially, taking advantage of my hard work, while she parites and humps other guys.  

My options don't seem like good ones:

1. Let it go and realize that in 5-6 years I won't have to pay her a red cent any more.  The downside is that in the meantime my kids are growing up and I cannot afford to do almost anything with them.

2. We have been getting along fairly well, friendly, lately, so I could try again to ask her.  I am fairly sure she would answer in the same way.  Is there a good way to ask that will not trigger her to think that I'm being selfish (which is obviously projection)?

3. Take her to court.  This likely means getting a lawyer, costing me a few thousand dollars that I do not have -which I would have to borrow from my parents.  It doesn't seem worth it... .to spend money in order try and recoup some money.

Is it even worth it?  Thoughts?  I have a very hard time letting go of this.  Every time something happens (blown tire, some other emergency) where I am completely unable to afford anything and completely thrown off financially, I am triggered and want to rip her face off.  Every time she asks me to contribute to a gift or to clothing for our children, I want to destroy her.  But legally fighting her just seems too daunting.  She is a snake, and I don't know that it would be worth it unless I was also fighting for custody and something like 75% parenting time (right now we have joint custody and 50/50 parenting time).

[ugghh]

Out, we probably need a few more details before we can give relevant advice.

1) Did you guys settle out of court or is your current situation the result of a trial?

2) What state do you live in?

3) What is the income differential between you and her?

4) What are the terms of your child support and spousal support?

What you seem to be relaying here is exactly the reason I sound like a broken record when I list items to do when divorcing a BPD.  Usually by the time you have decided to proceed with divorce, you are typically not in the right place to be making decisions affecting the rest of your life without the support of a counselor, good attorney and friends and family.  It's also why I say divorcing a BPD is rarely cheap or quick, so get yourself in the right mindset.

It appears that you have been around the boards for a while, however in reading your posts it seems like even though you are divorced you have not really disengaged from your X.  I would suggest that you re-read the lesson stickied on the Leaving board https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.0. Especially read Lesson 2 regarding 10 beliefs that get you stuck.  You seem to be stuck and frankly way too involved still with the X.

[scraps66]

I don't have a lot to add about what, specifically, to do, but it sounds to me that you are well beyond "asking."  Telling that two years post divorce she is still "getting back on her feet."  Frankly, the asking can be a trigger for a BP and it can also tip your hand about what you have planned and give her a heads up of where she can next obstruct progress. 

In your state, are there limits on when spousal support ends?

Why not file an amendment to support to bring down your monthly payment?  You can file that yourself and a Master may tell her to get to work, or give her an estimated income to work with and you'd be better off? 

[mywifecrazy]

Hello OOE,

Sorry to hear about your struggles. I agree that you need to disconnect from your X. You need to go NC (extreme LC as you have kids). It will help you get out of the FOG. Focus on you and your kids only. I would also limit the communication to e-mail. It will help you to disconnect.

As far as your financial obligations I would only do what was agreed upon in your settlement. Nothing more! If your struggling you might want to look into an amendment like was mentioned above. I'm no divorce expert but don't the courts look at earning potential? In other words if your X is healthy an not working don't the courts make a decision based on the fact that she should be working? Forgive me if you already posted but is your divorce finalized? Is there a property settlement (allimony) and custody settlement (child care) in place?

Hang in there brother. I pray for you often. Shoot me a private message if you need someone to vent with.

MWC... .

[OutOfEgypt]

I actually was advised with an experienced counselor (two actually).  They both suggested getting the divorce over with as quickly and as amicably as possible.  My T suggested I don't even try to get custody of the children because "I would lose," since she would obviously lie and do whatever she could to sabotage that.  Taking the more friendly approach would lessen her trigger to compete with me, and because of that I would wind up having the kids most of the time anyway -which is true.  Even though on paper it says I am to have them 50% of the time, I get them probably more like 60% of the time (for overnights) and I see them often during her week to have them because I pick them up from school when my ex works or help them with homework.  Or often they just *want* to stay with me.

I agree that I am *stuck*.  I may be stuck on belief 7, "If I say it louder I will be heard".  But it does go the same way every time.  She really doesn't give a flying rat's #$ about my situation.  I am always put into a position where I have to improve my situation on my own or by force (such as beginning the eviction process when she wouldn't leave me house after I ended our final recycle).  It is ALWAYS going to be a one-way partnership to any degree I need to partner with her.  The only time she did "help" was when I asked for help during the divorce (resulting in her dumping her nasty lawyer and us settling the matter without ever having to go to court).

I am stuck because it is WRONG and I feel compelled to ACT, but I do not know if acting is foolish or not.  I do not want to get myself into a situation where I am actually WORSE off.  I have heard horror stories of the amount of spousal support men have been ordered to pay by selfish women, and I don't want her to try to suck more out of me and have a judge actually give it!  I do not trust what a judge would do.  I would like to think a judge would see the truth, but I know that seldom happens.

I do make quite a bit more than her, but she makes good money with her job (when she has work) and has been able to party and pay off debt because she pays only a few hundred dollars a month in rent to her sister.  She gets her own bedroom there, while the kids hate it because they sleep on couches in the living room.  It is "temporary."  

There is a limit to the spousal and child support.  I believe I have 6 years left of spousal support, and the child support ends obviously as the children grow up.  Four-to-six more years for one child and more like 10-12 years for the other.

I WANT to do something... .but I am AFRAID of what she will do.  Since this board is public and publicly searchable, I would rather not share specifics about numbers or where I live.

[ForeverDad]

Since this board is public and publicly searchable, I would rather not share specifics about numbers or where I live.

Some of our boards are only viewable while logged on, such as this Family Law board, so the risk is low for the search-bots to index these less accessible boards.  But you are right that she could find out that you're here and then register and monitor you while lurking.  The odds are low but it could happen.

One thing you could do is share sensitive information only via PM (see message link on bar at top of page) with a long-time member who has extensive history here.  Another idea is to occasionally give slightly inaccurate details, such as mentioning kids ages a little younger or older, or not mentioning their birthdays until a couple months later, etc.

This is peer support, we can't claim to give legal advice, that's reserved for local family law attorneys and other professionals.  But we have "been there, done that" and have some ideas of what generally works and what generally doesn't work.  Our experience is hard-won and invaluable.  We're happy to be able to "pay it forward" just as others who were here when we arrived did for us.  Feel free to pick our brains for our thoughts, concerns, ideas, strategies, etc.