No treatment =No hope?

[Quietfire]

Is it possible to even have a relationship with someone (sibling, in my case) who 1. Doesn't believe they have BPD 2. Refuses to seek any sort of therapy, other than Medication therapy.

[Quietfire]

Is it even possible to have a relationship (sister in this case) with someone who 1. Doesn't believe that they have BPD or 2. Refuses to seek any sort of therapy txt other than Medication?

[Harri]

Hi Quietfire.  I believe it is possible to have a relationship with them even if they are not in treatment.  Some people are able to use the tools offered here quite well.  The question is, what kind of relationship do you want with them?  If you are okay having one where you need to be the emotionally mature one and be responsible for managing the emotions of the pwBPD, then sure it is possible.  I think a lot would depend on if the person is in-acting vs. out-acting, waif/queen/hermit/witch and high vs. low functioning.  There are so many variables to it.

Have you checked out the tools listed here?  Things like SET, JADE, setting boundaries, etc?

[pessim-optimist]

Hello Quietfire,



I am assuming that there has been enough relationship trouble you are dealing with that it caused you to ask this question... .These relationships are very frustrating, and stressful.

In general, the answer to your question is - yes, it is possible (of course it depends on your personal situation). A person w/BPD perceives the world around them differently and successful communication with them is often counter-intuitive.

But there are ways to change our approach that can make a difference toward the positive. Once we learn how we can protect ourselves from the negative effects of their behaviors, we can often relax enough to work on the ways how we can stay connected.

What are the things you struggle with most?

[enlighten me]

Hi quietfire

I would say its possible but you will need to maintain strong boundaries. My exgf and her brother have a fairly good relationship but he keeps his distance. He once stayed with us for a couple of months and couldnt wait to move out. As long as he keeps her at arms length theyre good. He told me that i was a brave man as he couldnt live with her full time.

[P.F.Change]

The others are right--we do have a lot of tools that can make navigating a relationship with someone who has BPD possible. You will not be able to change the other person, but you can learn ways to take care of your own needs and behaviors in a way that feels best to you. As the previous posters have suggested, it might help to start by looking at your Values and Boundaries. There are also communication techniques that can help keep things centered, such as TOOLS: S.E.T. - Support, Empathy and Truth that they mentioned above. You might also want to check out the rest of the Healing board Lessons.

I would also be interested to hear more from you about your relationship and the things you feel you are struggling with.

Wishing you peace,

PF

[Quietfire]

I guess I feel my struggle is that one of my sister's main 'theme' of arguments with me is thinking that I don't spend enough time/am not close enough with her or her family. So anytime that I have tried to set limits and boundaries with her, they are perceived as me trying to get away from her, that I hate her and her family etc. I just feel like it's a no win situation.

[enlighten me]

This I can understand as my ex is very clingy with her family. Her brother gets away with it as he does his own thing and doesnt do anything he doesnt want to. It comes across a little self centred but in all honesty it only came across that way because the ex kept on mentioning it.

[Harri]

I guess I feel my struggle is that one of my sister's main 'theme' of arguments with me is thinking that I don't spend enough time/am not close enough with her or her family. So anytime that I have tried to set limits and boundaries with her, they are perceived as me trying to get away from her, that I hate her and her family etc. I just feel like it's a no win situation.

Hi Quietfire.  I understand the feeling of this being a no win situation.  I felt the same with my parents until I realized that my parents, specifically my mother, would always see me as the bad guy.  I had spent my whole life trying to get her to see and hear me without setting her off and that was an impossible task.   

The thing is, it seems like you are defining 'winning' on getting your sister to hear, understand and accept your boundaries and limits without getting upset.  Have you ever been able to do that with her?  She is disordered and the disorder pretty much dictates that she will get upset with you especially when you first start changing the role you have always had when interacting with her.  So perhaps you need to redefine what it means to win.  Put the focus on you and your own well being by establishing boundaries.  You can't control her behavior or regulate how she will feel about things.  Boundaries are about changing your behavior and are not about trying to get her to change or hear and understand your point of view.  She is not capable of that, so set yourself free from those expectations and focus on you and what you need.  Does that make sense?

[P.F.Change]

So anytime that I have tried to set limits and boundaries with her, they are perceived as me trying to get away from her, that I hate her and her family etc.

You do not have the power to control your sister's perceptions. Therefore it makes sense to take care of what you can control--yourself and your boundaries--regardless of how she sees them. S.E.T. is a really good tool for communicating our boundaries and feelings--it allows us to validate what the other person is feeling while maintaining a different position for ourselves.

What can you do if your sister wants to argue about the time you spend with her or about your boundaries?

[Quietfire]

Harri (and PF Change) thank you so much for your responses. You are so right. I have thought (until now) that 'winning' is her hearing and understanding me. I do need to redefine this. I also need to accept that she will always see me as the 'bad guy'. Is that common with BPS? Do those with BPS tend to single out someone as the bad guy or is it just random? Anyway, that advice was a great help. I can only control my actions and behaviors. Let me ask you all this. The above situation is also compounded by my mother.  First, let me note that my mother either doesn't believe or doesn't want to believe that my sister has BPD, even though I've told her this and given her literature on it. She plays the role of the enabler/rescuer. She, at times, will set boundaries with my sister, but they do not last. For instance, my sister publicly humiliated her in a fit of rage once. My mother told her she was not going to stay there and let her humiliate her, and so left. My mom told me that she needed an apology from my sister. They didn't speak for some time. But, per script, my mom ended up calling her up, making amends, never speaking of the humiliating situation again. So, my mother is not a supporter of me having boundaries. She never fully expects my sister to give an inch (although she may claim that she expects it) and then expects myself-and my father-to basically let her walk all over us. So, the guilt from my mom does not help with me trying to enforce boundaries with my sister. And my sister, of course, believes that we should all be like my mother, and we (my dad and I) are the horrible people who hate her. Any advice regarding this dynamic?  Ty!

[Harri]

Hello Quietfire.  I am glad our words have helped you.  This board is wonderful for helping with advice, new perspectives and support.

Do those with BPS tend to single out someone as the bad guy or is it just random?

It is very common for a pwBPD to single one person out and use them as the scapegoat or 'paint them black'.  Some will alternate back and forth between painting black and painting white too.  When they do this, there is little you can do to change their mind.  Remember, it is not personal.  They are projecting their own feelings and perceptions of their self onto you because they can't handle seeing those aspects of their own self.  So don't take it personally and remember that when they are caught up in projections they can't even see you.  It is not about *you*.

Regarding your mother, again, you can't control her behavior either.  So establish your boundaries and know that you will not be able to count on your mom to support you.  It is sad when other family members choose to stay enmeshed and to enable the BPDs in our life, but we can't change that either.  Limits and boundaries will most likely have to be set with your mom as well. 

She never fully expects my sister to give an inch (although she may claim that she expects it) and then expects myself-and my father-to basically let her walk all over us. So, the guilt from my mom does not help with me trying to enforce boundaries with my sister. And my sister, of course, believes that we should all be like my mother, and we (my dad and I) are the horrible people who hate her. Any advice regarding this dynamic?  Ty!

Your mother gets to be in charge of her own behavior just like you and your father.  Set limits and boundaries that are for you and they can either accept them or not.  Same thing with your father.  Expect the guilt trips and triangulation and prepare for the games to begin!  Again, you are changing your role in your family... .things will be off balance for a bit.  Expect it.  It is actually a good sign because it means they are getting the message.  Unfortunately, the rest of the family will frantically try to restore things back to the old comfortable (no matter how crazy) state.  You can't stop that from happening either.  All   you can do is set boundaries and limits with consistency and consideration for yourself.  Being consistent is vital in terms of setting the limits. 

Have you had a chance to read the articles P.F.Change linked here?