How do I love?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I was thinking yesterday about this here concept. How do I love? And why do I love that way? I do not know any brain-y-ack terms for any of this () but this is what I’m kicking around in my head…

I love fully and completely. I love from the middle of my being all throughout my entire being. I love with everything I have. I can’t love him that way. I learned this a long time ago. I can’t love him with my whole being all at once because he can’t deal with that from me. I never understood this until now…and I don’t know that I fully understand it even now.

He loves me in the best way he knows how, he loves me as much as he can love anyone. I don’t doubt that for a minute. His love is…childish…in a way. It’s a tool for him. A means to an end. He told me once…when I pressed the subject…that the highest form of love is sex…which I don’t buy. Not for a second. He does all this *stuff* FOR ME and expects ‘payment’ in the form of sex…and yes I’ve had this talk with him, too.

I want to love with everything in me. I want to express my love in many ways…I would like to have someone (him but it isn’t going to happen like that) that won’t get freaked out when I express my love to them. I want someone (again, it’s not going to be him) who can be content in my love even when I want to just be alone….I’d like to have someone who’s going to support my desire to experience this life to the fullest. Together or separately. And be content in our live together.

I’m thinking that this type of love isn’t in the cards for me. Which is ok. I’m ok with this thought. I believe that when I’m alone I’m not going to want anyone else close to me ever again. I don’t know that I can believe in anyone ever again, not really and truly. I have the idea that I’m going to spend the rest of my days alone. It’s sad but not really…It’s ok. Maybe I can learn to love myself like that? Maybe that’s the lesson in all of this for me.

I learned this term a long time ago “enmeshment” where one allows themselves to get enmeshed in another…I believe the idea was that one cannot become enmeshed in another because it’s an unhealthy way to love someone. I never quite understood that…why? Why can’t one love that fully and be healthy at the same time? I love many people and many things…and my love is limitless…lol, I told my kids when they were younger and grandbaby “My heart is full of love and there’s enough for everyone”

Just a thought rambling through my head…

“I love you. But not like I used to and I won’t love you like that again because I won’t let myself be hurt again by you.” Is what I’m thinking of telling him…strait to the point… and all stuff will hit the fan…

Thoughts?

[Danie14]

I was thinking yesterday about this here concept. How do I love? And why do I love that way? I do not know any brain-y-ack terms for any of this () but this is what I’m kicking around in my head…

I love fully and completely. I love from the middle of my being all throughout my entire being. I love with everything I have. I can’t love him that way. I learned this a long time ago. I can’t love him with my whole being all at once because he can’t deal with that from me. I never understood this until now…and I don’t know that I fully understand it even now.

He loves me in the best way he knows how, he loves me as much as he can love anyone. I don’t doubt that for a minute. His love is…childish…in a way. It’s a tool for him. A means to an end. He told me once…when I pressed the subject…that the highest form of love is sex…which I don’t buy. Not for a second. He does all this *stuff* FOR ME and expects ‘payment’ in the form of sex…and yes I’ve had this talk with him, too.

I want to love with everything in me. I want to express my love in many ways…I would like to have someone (him but it isn’t going to happen like that) that won’t get freaked out when I express my love to them. I want someone (again, it’s not going to be him) who can be content in my love even when I want to just be alone….I’d like to have someone who’s going to support my desire to experience this life to the fullest. Together or separately. And be content in our live together.

I’m thinking that this type of love isn’t in the cards for me. Which is ok. I’m ok with this thought. I believe that when I’m alone I’m not going to want anyone else close to me ever again. I don’t know that I can believe in anyone ever again, not really and truly. I have the idea that I’m going to spend the rest of my days alone. It’s sad but not really…It’s ok. Maybe I can learn to love myself like that? Maybe that’s the lesson in all of this for me.

I learned this term a long time ago “enmeshment” where one allows themselves to get enmeshed in another…I believe the idea was that one cannot become enmeshed in another because it’s an unhealthy way to love someone. I never quite understood that…why? Why can’t one love that fully and be healthy at the same time? I love many people and many things…and my love is limitless…lol, I told my kids when they were younger and grandbaby “My heart is full of love and there’s enough for everyone”

Just a thought rambling through my head…

“I love you. But not like I used to and I won’t love you like that again because I won’t let myself be hurt again by you.” Is what I’m thinking of telling him…strait to the point… and all stuff will hit the fan…

Thoughts?

[Danie14]

I tell ya wonders work in mysterious ways... .I was just looking around this website and stumbled on a "codependent and enmeshment" thread in the Workshops portion of the board. Good information which I will continue to read.

I've thought long about the codependent aspect of this here thing I'm dealing with... .and it confuses me some because I am but yet I'm not. I look at the check lists for self-diagnoses (only as an indicator not an actual diagnoses) and think... .Well, with my H I am this or that but not with other people... .can one be codependent with just one person? Or would the person be codependent with all others?

As far as the enmeshment goes... .no, I'm not talking about that type of things... .but a type of love where we can mutually respect each other's desires for whatever it is they desire... .not that we'd need to accept that desire but that we accept that they have it. Make sense?

Still just thinking on things... .

[Pingo]

Danie, if you have interest in leaning more about enmeshment (and differentiation), Harriet Lerner's books are very good.  I started reading her books before I left my r/s and it made a huge impact on me.  My favorites are "The dance of intimacy" and "The dance of anger".

I don't think many of us on these boards know how to love in a healthy way because we have never experienced it as many are from FOO with much pain and abuse.  I am so thankful to my children because they have taught me how to love in a healthier way (it's a work in progress).  My tendency is to be codependent and in romantic relationships I certainly am but for whatever reason I am much better at allowing my children to be their own persons and follow their own path... .I've had to learn how to do this, it didn't come naturally. 

[Danie14]

Thank you for the book recommendations. I'll look into getting them and reading.

This is what I don't really understand... .I wonder... .why is loving 'fully' from a deep place inside of one a bad thing? I'm pretty laid back, easy going... .all would be well in my world if I didn't feel this crappy feeling from my H... .that my H stirs inside of me... .

I personally think everyone's a little bit co-dependent in one way or another. I don't think it's something we chose to be it's just the way it is. Some take it to extremes and some don't go that far. Some (like me) let it get out of hand and learn to recognize it, learn from it, and deal with it. Probably a lot of us do that. I think this comes from the fact that we are social creatures and dependent on each other for survival. Now and in the past. It's better if we get along... .and... .really how far down that rabbit hole does one need to go to be termed 'co-dependent'? Maybe it's a spectrum like many other things.

I'm not part of the main-stream culture in the US, and the basis of my belief system is not quite the same as the majority. So I think sometimes it's hard for me to 'get it' in the sense that it's given. If that makes any sense. I'm not saying I'm special or anything just trying to help you all understand my perspective. Shouldn't we try to make the others in our lives feel comfortable? Shouldn't we try to meet their needs? While maintain our own needs?  I was taught that we are a all connected on a physical, spiritual, mental, and emotional level as well. There's a connection and what we do will ripple out to others. So everything we do we need to do in a thoughtful way, with wisdom kindness and understanding. It could just be a matter of semantics.

This is how I approached my marriage, my love for my H... .and... .it's like throwing pebbles into a bottomless pit. That's what it feels like anyway. The same respect I have for my children, to let them live, experience, learn and come to their own understandings... .well, I've applied that respect to my H as well... .and have never really and truly gotten that same respect back towards me from him.  I've tried to maintain my self through all of this stuff and have had hope... .so much hope... .that I've had to let go of... .accept... .I've learned a lot over they years about me and about life in general... .

sorry, rambling again... .but why is it unhealthy to love like that? To love with everything and that includes respecting their ideas, desires, wants while they respect yours?

[Pingo]

sorry, rambling again... .but why is it unhealthy to love like that? To love with everything and that includes respecting their ideas, desires, wants while they respect yours?

I don't think it's unhealthy to open our hearts and want to be giving like that.  "Respecting their ideas, desires, wants while they respect yours" is what is generally lacking in codependent r/ss. The giving is not reciprocal and not respectful perhaps.  I think it becomes unhealthy when we are giving to the detriment to ourselves or others.  There is a controlling aspect to codependency.  Because our self-worth/meaning is wrapped up in how we are relating to another.  I am still learning what all this means.  What I thought was me being very giving of myself with my ex was actually not doing him any favours because I was caretaking him in ways in which he could have being caring for himself.  I took 'giving' too far.  And at the expense of my own health.  For example, I got into debt trying to compensate for him putting off getting a job and contributing to the family.  He had many excuses and I allowed it.  It was unhealthy for both of us.  He didn't learn to stand on his own to feet and I have lost my financial security. It has been eye opening to see how much of my self esteem is dependent on other people. 

[Danie14]

I think it becomes unhealthy when we are giving to the detriment to ourselves or others.

Ok, I get that... .if it's constantly like that, but sometimes those we love need a bit more just because of the situation and what-not. But... it seems like there's always SOMETHING that makes him need a bit more... .and I'm a strong person, I know this. I'm kind and try to be tough (when needed)... .sometimes it feels like a big game... .like I'm playing a game and I don't like it. Sometimes I feel like I'm just a prop in his game.

I give when I need to I'd like to take when I need to. I'm a giver my nature and that's ok with me. I've learned how to recharge (my alone time) and that makes him crazy so sometimes I don't get to recharge as I'd like to or need to... .yes, it has been a process in learning myself and I'm sure there's still a lot left to learn... .it's good. I want to do this... .and I'm taken away from myself, from my own ponderings because he's got a need. So yes, I can see how that is co-dependent on my part. I could *demand* but... .sigh... .I'm still learning how to be tough when I need to be... .and, simply, I don't want to live my life in a position where I am made to *demand* someone (who claims to love me beyond life itself) respect my desire for my own solitude, my own alone time.

... .and that's another thing... .I don't want anyone to love me like that... .not because I don't think I deserve love... .but because it's insane. I want a healthy love... .and back to my original thought... .I don't' think there's anyone out there who can love me like that... .just simply and purely and healthy... .and I don't know if I could recognize that if it came up an bit me on my nose. I'm probably getting way ahead of myself here. I need to just get thru this first, and heal, before I start thinking about that type of stuff.

[Lucky Jim]

why is loving 'fully' from a deep place inside of one a bad thing?

Hi Danie14, No, I don't think it's a bad thing to love fully from a place of mutual respect and kindness, yet I am under the impression that your marriage falls outside this category.  Nothing wrong with spending time alone to recharge your batteries, and one's SO should be able to handle the time apart without complaint, yet I recognize that often it's extremely difficult to do in a r/s with a pwBPD.  I think the key is whether one can "be oneself" in a r/s.  I lost myself for a while there in my marriage to a  pwBPD and it was not fun.  Now I'm back on my path.

Lucky Jim