Mom Gave Me An Opening, I Whimped Out

[Turkish]

Ever since my mom admitted to me a few months ago that one of her therapists 20 years ago gave her a backhanded dX of BPD, I've found that I don't want to talk to her. No explicit reason. I've lived over two hours away for the past 14 years, and for 3 years before that, 700 miles way n another state.

I thought it had been 3 weeks since I called her. She said a month. (I just ckecked my phone log and it's been 3 weeks). I was updating her on her grandchildren and my uBPDx. I related recent issues which S4 has been praying to God that Mommy isn't so angry with him. My Ex downplays this, chuckles, and thinks it's cute. I think it's sad. He doesn't tell me this stuff, she does! I told my mom that I asked me ex to think like a 4 year old does. That no matter what she thinks, his feelings are real to him. My mom paused for a few beats and said, "I can't imagine how a 4 year old thinks." I knew she was giving me an opening to quiz her, but instead I "rescued" her and said, "I imagine that's hard, since you're 37 years removed from having to deal with a 4 year old." Change topic.

My mom made another comment like this over a month ago where she gave me an opening to question her when I brought up one of my BPDx's behaviors, but I changed the subject.  I didn't want to trigger my hermit-waif mom. Though fading in cognitive abilities due to her age, my mom is smart and analytical. I have a perfect opportunity to gain wisdom into the BPD mnd, but I find myself running. I question myself, "is it worth it?"

The engineer wants to analyze, and also bring insights back to the board. The little Turkey inside of me wants to continue the 40+ year pattern of stuffing his feelings. I just feel detached even more from her.

She updated me on her new neighbors in the forest. It sounds like they hit it off initially, but my thought was "how soon is she going to alienate them and cause problems?" Because that's the pattern. All I can do now is listen, I suppose.

[Blimblam]

Yes, all you can do is listen.

My mom likes to refer to it as ptsd and that she is in survivor mode. She tells me stories of the mess she's made. All I can do is listen. Finding that forgiveness inside is through pain.

Please do not call it BPD it triggers them.

[Turkish]

Yes, all you can do is listen.

My mom likes to refer to it as ptsd and that she is in survivor mode. She tells me stories of the mess she's made. All I can do is listen. Finding that forgiveness inside is through pain.

Please do not call it BPD it triggers them.

That's the thing, BB, I sense that she wants to talk about it! She's a registered nurse, and despite the decline in cognitive abilities, is very intelligent. I'm the closest thing she has to someone who understands it.

My dilemma is that I wish my Ex would get to this point, so I could talk to her about it. Now I have my mom, who does want to talk about it a bit, and I don't want to. I think the fact that I moved out of the house 26 years ago (to the day this coming Sunday, my birthday) and put distance between us added emotional distance as well. Do I want to go "back there," so to speak?

I think I will bite the bullet the next time she drops a hint like this. The last time, I was describing my Ex, and my mom said, "just like me, you mean." I ignored that probing comment as well. I've discussed my Ex at length with her, and my mom, as computer illiterate as she is, has an idea of what I do here. I'm just finding my empathy in regards to her depression and BPD issues is a bit lacking.

[Harri]

Hi Turkish.   

What do you think will happen if you do talk with your mother and she gets triggered?  You know her well enough to be able to anticipate any reactions so you can prepare.  Plus, with all the work you do here, you will be in a great position to get through it with minimal fall-out for *you* I think.  She gets to take care of herself.

I'm just finding my empathy in regards to her depression and BPD issues is a bit lacking.

Yeah, I get this.  But so what if your empathy bucket is a bit depleted?  I don't know you well Turkish, but I can't imagine you being anything other than respectful, understanding, tactful and earnest in your communications.  IMO, empathy is not always required or even desired.  If your mother is truly letting you know she is open to talk about herself in this way, maybe she has reached a point where she is able to do a bit of introspection.  My only concern for you would be that she tries to pull you into being her counselor.  Again, I do not know you well, but I have read some of your posts where you talk about being a rescuer.  You know how to not get caught up in that role so prepare for that too.   

The little Turkey inside of me wants to continue the 40+ year pattern of stuffing his feelings. I just feel detached even more from her.

Avoiding his feelings may be what Little Turkey wants, but as the adult Turkey, you get to decide what is best for him.  You know that it is not good to stuff Little Turkey (haha... .get it?).  Again, I have read a lot of your posts and you frequently mention being avoidant.  Do for Little Turkey what you would do for your son and daughter... .you would encourage them to express their feelings without judging or avoiding and you would validate, right? 

Now, I have another question for you.  It is a bit rude and challenging.  I ask out of concern for you and I may be way off the mark here but(!)... .  Are you really feeling detached or is it more of a numbness that allows you to continue to avoid dealing with emotions, difficult situations, or whatever it is you are avoiding?

[Turkish]

Hi Turkish.  

What do you think will happen if you do talk with your mother and she gets triggered?  You know her well enough to be able to anticipate any reactions so you can prepare.  Plus, with all the work you do here, you will be in a great position to get through it with minimal fall-out for *you* I think.  She gets to take care of herself.

Right. No being rude, but no rescuing either.

I'm just finding my empathy in regards to her depression and BPD issues is a bit lacking.

Yeah, I get this.  But so what if your empathy bucket is a bit depleted?  I don't know you well Turkish, but I can't imagine you being anything other than respectful, understanding, tactful and earnest in your communications.  IMO, empathy is not always required or even desired.  If your mother is truly letting you know she is open to talk about herself in this way, maybe she has reached a point where she is able to do a bit of introspection.  My only concern for you would be that she tries to pull you into being her counselor.  

Yes, you know? There was a point before this where I relished the need to understand. Now I'm just tired.

Now, I have another question for you.  It is a bit rude and challenging.  I ask out of concern for you and I may be way off the mark here but(!)... . Are you really feeling detached or is it more of a numbness that allows you to continue to avoid dealing with emotions, difficult situations, or whatever it is you are avoiding?

I'm not suicidal, if that's what you are getting at. And my months of severe, cyclical depression have pretty much gone (thankfully), if that's what you are trying to feel out.

I'm not sure about the detached and numb part. As for my mom, I think to myself, "would it really matter if I ever saw or contacted her again?" This is weird to me since being so long out of her house, I have no real reason to resent her. But I feel I do. My tolerance for people in pain seems to have flipped 180 degrees. The empathy I have left, I reserve for my little angel monsters. I've always been a bit like this, for as long as I can remember (back to 3 or 4). Always invalidated (and horribly bullied and ostracized by school peers), I just learned to detach as a kid. Coming home, it was the typical idealization/devaluation. Maybe I should just accept this is the way I'm wired. I have a few good decades long friends who are family to me. I am loyal. I don't abuse people. Yet underneath, I can also "split," as it were, my feelings. Sometimes I feel as if I can keep processing this yet make little progress. I don't feel shame, but perhaps a little guilty.

In other news, in order to fill my off time, I've started doing volunteer service in the community. I did a homeless outreach the other weekend, and I'm signing up for another one on Thanksgiving (since I don't want to sit across the table from my Ex, even though her family will invite me... .I'm letting her have the kids since it's my holiday this year, in exchange for the next two days). I spotted a guy sitting by himself at a small table, where most of the others were gathered in packs at the larger rounder tables. I thought, "Oh, goody, another Lone Wolf to talk to!" So I spend a while sitting talking to him, even if I only got one word in for each of his 500. He needed someone to listen to, and I'm good at that (says everybody except for my uBPDx).

The me 10 years ago would have been filled with so much anxiety that I wouldn't have been able to put myself out like this (not to the other Lone Wolf, but all of the people there). So I have made some progress, pwBPD and all.

I think in connecting, it helps me to not detach too much. I didn't know what I didn't know, and now I know this: that I can do it.

[Harri]

I'm not suicidal, if that's what you are getting at. And my months of severe, cyclical depression have pretty much gone (thankfully), if that's what you are trying to feel out.

You being suicidal never even entered my head.  I was simply questioning if you're truly 'detached' or if you are numb from doing a lifetime of avoidance.  I thought it was rude for me to ask it so directly as I am essentially questioning your own self-assessment and I did not want to invalidate that.

So, again, avoidance seems to be a theme in your posts here. 

I'm not sure about the detached and numb part. As for my mom, I think to myself, "would it really matter if I ever saw or contacted her again?" This is weird to me since being so long out of her house, I have no real reason to resent her. But I feel I do.

You feel you do resent her?  If yes, I would say it is not surprising at all given the childhood you had.  Just because you left the house a long time ago does not mean the wounds have healed... .especially if you use avoidance as a defense mechanism.

Maybe I should just accept this is the way I'm wired. I have a few good decades long friends who are family to me. I am loyal. I don't abuse people. Yet underneath, I can also "split," as it were, my feelings. Sometimes I feel as if I can keep processing this yet make little progress. I don't feel shame, but perhaps a little guilty.

You mean you think you are wired to avoid?  I believe our neural networks get shaped and formed by our perceptions and experiences so sure, you may be wired that way now.  I am not trying to pathologize you, but I am wondering why you would even post this if you truly felt your were destined to be avoidant and it is fine.  Or am I missing the point?  I have to admit that I am no longer sure what your question is.

In the meantime, I keep thinking back to your first post in this thread where you directly state that little Turkey wants to go back to his 40+ year pattern of stuffing his feelings.  If you think that is okay to do, why post this?  It seems to me there might be a bit of a disconnect.  Maybe it is at my end though and I just don't understand.

[Blimblam]

Let her make a mess with her neighbors. Let them have the drama. Don't get baited. In the best you can do is listen and not judge.

When she tells the drama of someone else you as an observer can gain many insights. But they speak in code.

Once you understand how to decipher the code you will see it everywhere.

Listen to her drama but don't try to solve it. You can't fix her. You can pay for crap now and then if she's in a tough spot but no expectations. Just listen and don't judge.