A dream

[Mr Hollande]

Yesterdays dream was of her and it's the first one I can remember having since the break up in May. She didn't appear in body. I had (for some reason) her phone in my hand and it was full of photos of different men and also the place I assume she now lived in with my replacement. I found myself walking empty streets looking for her while now and then receiving messages from her asking about where her phone was. I never replied to them. Just kept looking at the various photos. Eerie is not the word. Sad wouldn't cover it either. Empty most certainly. I woke up and couldn't go back to sleep.

[Infared]

I suggest that you go back to sleep... .get back into the dream and then take the phone and throw it in a lake... .or, if you would rather savor the experience you could find/invent a machine shop in your dream and put the phone in a vise and slowly squeeze the life out of it... .and then throw it into the toilet, to be sure. 

Seriously though, I have had a number of these dreams and they are always emotionally painful situations where I am frantically searching for her but she is never where I am and I can't quite find her. There is always an element of another man/men and her being smug about it. They are really painful, desperate dreams.  

One good influence they have for me is to reinforce total NC under any circumstances insulating me from the unlimited selfishness that pwBPD seem to thrive on. I try to use the dreams for something positive... .to fuel self-protection from further pain.

[Mr Hollande]

The good thing about this dream was that it didn't alter my resolve to keep her out of my life and stay NC. Painful and desperate is a good description. I guess what we look for in those dreams is not "her" but a part of ourselves that have been lost.

[Infared]

The good thing about this dream was that it didn't alter my resolve to keep her out of my life and stay NC. Painful and desperate is a good description. I guess what we look for in those dreams is not "her" but a part of ourselves that have been lost.

Hmmmmm... .good insight... .perhaps that is what we are looking for... .hmmm... .you can't repair or heal something until you know that it is missing or damaged... .

[Mr Hollande]

So I had another dream. It's been a while since the previous one.

I was most surprised as I saw her across the street. We don't even live in the same country so I could only assume she was here to visit me. As I contemplated how to react to that she looked at me but made no attempt to approach me. She had longer hair and she looked well but she also had the look of sadness on her face as she kept her distance.

A woman appeared who kept her back to me for the duration. She was holding a child by the hand. A girl maybe 7-8 years old. As my ex greeted the woman and child she kept looking at me with sadness. Then the three of them walked towards a little pathway and disappeared.

I woke up feeling sad. I wondered for a while who the woman who'd never shown her face was and I came to the conclusion that it was probably my ex in her previous incarnation. The one I'd been with. The one looking at me was who she is now. The child may or may not have been her as a little girl. I felt very sad and wished I hadn't had the dream.

[peiper]

Years ago I heard a former drunk give a talk. He spoke of having drinking dreams that were caused by him being so scared of going back to what had caused him so much pain and manifested in his subconscious when sleeping.

[Skip]

Do you think this has anything to do with grieving her loss?

I have read many of your posts and I often get the feeling you use anger to shield yourself from deeper feelings of hurt and loss and maybe guilt.  I know that when we do that, our subconscious will try to process it in our dreams.

You were pretty quick to get into another relationship which can also be, in part,  a shielding of ourselves from emotions we struggle to face.

All of this tend to make the hurt stay on.  I know you still have immense anger for a prior relationship a decade ago that feels (from your word) to still be an open wound.

Do you think you might be struggling to face the pain of grieving?

[Mr Hollande]

After BPD 1 I entered a very intense training course for a career job where I had no time for myself. I did it in a weakened state after my experiences with her. I had no idea my ex was BPD. I didn't even know what BPD was. Long story short, during training I ran a year long gauntlet and at the end of it I had scraped by to qualify for the job. After that I had all the time and opportunity in the world to create the life I wanted and I chose calm and solitude. I had a fatigue and an immense sadness inside. I also had anger and deep resentments but I was free and I was beyond the reach of those who'd hurt me. I think I mourned during that aftermath. Not for her or the loss of her but for myself. I often asked myself who that guy who'd been with her was. He wasn't someone I liked. Ten years passed and I met BPD 2. I still had no idea what BPD was. 5 years later here I am.

I did meet someone very quickly. I met two. The first one got very intense so I ended it. I feel bad about that. The second one is similar to me in that she has recently come out of a relationship. We've talked about things and I think she understands not to pressure me. I don't think I meant to be in relationship so fast but at the same time I did want to meet women and they seem to like me enough to want to want to stick around. So I'm in a relationship. It's alright.

The hurt is there. Sometimes it's gone and then it comes back. Then it goes again. I think that's natural.

Yes I have anger towards my ex. Both of them. More, much more, the recent one. There is grief too but anger is predominant. I aim for indifference over her. Forgiveness is impossible. I can't forgive someone who has willingly sought to injure me like she did. To forgive something like that would be perverse. I understand it's the way for some, most even, but not for me. It is impossible.

The various stages I think I go and will go through them ass over backwards. Like I have with most things in my life.

I don't think I live out events in dreams that anyone else doesn't.

[Skip]

'Holland, I don't want to think I'm telling you to take your anger away. Its yours. I don't want feel I'm second guessing the decisions you have made. It's not my place - and I have my own to deal with.

What I do want to do is give you perspective. I've seen thousands come through here. I'm trying to give you something to ponder - not defend - but to evaluate.  That's all.  Hopefully we all come here to be challenged - not simply validated.

Fair?

Have you read this:

Resentments are often justified - but are they helpful?  

So how does a little venting hurt us?  When we are resentful, we try to balance the wrongs we feel by demeaning the person that hurt us.  We bash them, feel disgust for them, feel hatred or look down in pity... .we may even wish them harm or lash out to hurt them or their reputation.

The problem for us is that we create a dysfunctional and false reality to sooth our pain.  And in doing so we cling to a futile need to be right or be superior, which overrides our capacity to heal and to make healthy changes in our lives... .usually because we don't know any other way to come to grips with the painful feelings of hurt, rejection, and abandonment.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=135831.0

[Mr Hollande]

Thanks. I'm reading and contemplating. While I do I have a question and I welcome anyone who think they have an answer.

How does one grieve someone that never existed?

[Suzn]

How does one grieve someone that never existed?

This is a very good question. It's not easy to come to the realization that the person we were with was not who we wanted or thought they were. The question then becomes why did I need the ideal of the person they were not?

A lot of us here are grieving the loss of what we never had. This generally goes back to childhood, it's a long journey to go back and shift through. What were we missing then that we needed now?

I found that grieving that which I never had meant I had to reconnect with that child inside, to foster a relationship and nurture it. To listen to and become that child's protector because it's that child that holds my core beliefs. I have grieved in increments, memories that hurt, as I found each one. This is an ongoing process and it takes time. My T has been very helpful going through and understanding this process.

I hope this is helpful.

[Rise]

Thanks. I'm reading and contemplating. While I do I have a question and I welcome anyone who think they have an answer.

How does one grieve someone that never existed?

We grieve in the same way we would grieve for anything else. Because when we grieve, it's not just about missing what was, but more importantly, what could have been. It's about losing hopes and dreams and future plans. It's about the times we are never going to have now that someone (or something) isn't there anymore. As much as grief is about losing a person or thing, it's just as much about a loss of potential. Just because your ex wasn't who you thought she was, doesn't mean your feelings weren't real. It doesn't mean you didn't lose anything.

You aren't grieving over physically losing your ex. You're grieving over the idea of what she meant to you. You're grieving over the potential you thought the relationship possessed. Mourn for what you've lost. Your hopes. Your dreams. What she and the relationship used to represent to you. Those things were very real, and so is their loss.

[Mr Hollande]

Thank you for taking the time Rise. Thank you Suzn too and please forgive me but as I can't relate to what you're saying I'll address Rise.

Everything you say is right but the day she ended it and I decided that it was final I think I tucked those feelings away somewhere. At the time anything else would have been too brutal to deal with. I just accepted that all of it had been for nothing and this was the end of the road. There would be no way back and I flicked a switch and started walking.

It's as if I look at the grief through a glass jar. I can see it but I can't feel it. I feel mostly numb to the loss. At least I think so. The anger is real but not the grief. When I'm not angry I'm numb.

Yeah, it's like looking at it through a glass window. I see it but something prevents me from wearing it.

[Rise]

Thank you for taking the time Rise. Thank you Suzn too and please forgive me but as I can't relate to what you're saying I'll address Rise.

Everything you say is right but the day she ended it and I decided that it was final I think I tucked those feelings away somewhere. At the time anything else would have been too brutal to deal with. I just accepted that all of it had been for nothing and this was the end of the road. There would be no way back and I flicked a switch and started walking.

It's as if I look at the grief through a glass jar. I can see it but I can't feel it. I feel mostly numb to the loss. At least I think so. The anger is real but not the grief. When I'm not angry I'm numb.

Yeah, it's like looking at it through a glass window. I see it but something prevents me from wearing it.

Hollande, I totally get that. By nature I'm way more comfortable being angry. Anger I can deal with. Being angry keeps me in control. I struggle with the other emotions. They leave me feeling... .vulnerable. Which is not something I feel comfortable with.  Is this how it is with you?

Regardless I think what you're saying is a big step. Admitting that you can see it, that means those vulnerable feelings are out there somewhere, even if you aren't ready to wear them yet. I'm no shrink, but maybe that's okay right now. It may be enough right now that you simply acknowledge that those feelings exist, even if you don't know how to deal with them right this second. You can get there if you give yourself a chance when you're ready.

[Skip]

It's as if I look at the grief through a glass jar. I can see it but I can't feel it. I feel mostly numb to the loss. At least I think so. The anger is real but not the grief. When I'm not angry I'm numb.

Yeah, it's like looking at it through a glass window. I see it but something prevents me from wearing it.

Maybe the hurt is too great.

I lost my 11 year old Golden Retriever before the Holidays. She was with me every day - even when I worked - we were buds. They told me she had an aggressive cancer and had 12-16 weeks. She lived 20. The sorrow was buried behind a numbness. It's surreal. The sorrow started to break through at week 28 and has grown.

My true feelings are not numbness. They are thankfulness and sorrow. It's taken time to connect to them. I'm still doing that.

So maybe it will just take time.  And Rise is right, just knowing that the real feelings are there and maybe too much - a little out of reach - is a step forward.

I read a POV article a while back that talked about how we try to avoid hurt.  Cover it up with anger, pills, new girlfriends, buy a car... .whatever.  We can hold at bay.  The author talked about how it catches up with you eventually - how burying one loss just delays the pain until another loss occurs -  then you suffer both together - or kick the can down the road again.

Anyway, a dog story and what I read at the airport.  

[Mr Hollande]

I think it was more a case that while the anger came (and remained) naturally, grieving the loss of those hopes (or illusions) seemed futile. I know what I am meant to be grieving but why? It was all a big hollow fantasy.