Detaching with and through loving kindness-- any tips?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi all,

Does anyone have any good tips or experiences with gaining detachment through (or perhaps with) loving kindness? That seems like the best way to go, if possible.

I'm doing the "heart" series on this guided meditation link, I'll let you all know if it is helpful: https://www.headspace.com

Any other tips?

[kc sunshine]

Hi all,

Does anyone have any good tips or experiences with gaining detachment through (or perhaps with) loving kindness? That seems like the best way to go, if possible.

I'm doing the "heart" series on this guided meditation link, I'll let you all know if it is helpful: https://www.headspace.com

Any other tips?

[vortex of confusion]

I definitely want to follow this thread.

I don't know if I have anything helpful to say but I am trying to work on the same thing. I am still with my spouse but am trying to find ways of detaching emotionally without resorting to demonizing him or turning him into some kind of a monster. So, I am trying to look for the good and the bad in him so that I can be more balanced in my view of things. A lot of that involves journaling and reading here and sharing as much as possible.

The key for me is to try to avoid self loathing. I am trying to love myself more so that I can in turn be more loving in the process of detaching.

[OutOfEgypt]

I guess I would need more info, but if it means what I assume it means, I detach with loving-kindness in a way.  

To me, this means coming to grips with reality:  I will never "teach her a lesson", nor is it my responsibility to do so.  I will never get through to her, so if I need to act to change things for my kids I need to just do it and follow through all the way.  Confront her directly will paint a target on mine and my children's backs, so I need to let go of most things and pick my battles.

And it means doing so in a way that is kind but with proper boundaries and an understanding of where my responsibility lies and what things I need to protect myself from.  My ex and I get along well, but I do not respond to personal conversation.  I do not "let her in" in that way.

We had our dog put down a month or so ago -the dog we had from when we first got married.  He was old and had cancer.  So, we had him put down together.  It was very sad.  Moments after he passed away, she broke down and sobbed.  We walked out, and she sobbed more.  I got her a drink of water, some tissues, rubbed her back for a minute, and waited.  A few minutes later, I told her, "I have to go.  I can drive you back home and you can come get your car later if you aren't okay to drive, but I have to get back to work."  She asked if I would follow her home.  I agreed, and then I rolled down my window as she got back home, gave her our dog's leash to keep for herself, said bye and left.

This goes against much of the conventional wisdom discussed here in the group, and I wouldn't recommend it for many people, but I do okay with it.  I have zero desire to be with her, I am not bothered one bit about her being with other people, and I keep things kind and cordial while keeping firm boundaries.  It took me a lot to get here, including lots of therapy.  I never thought I would be in this place, but I am, and I continue to improve.

[kc sunshine]

The key for me is to try to avoid self loathing. I am trying to love myself more so that I can in turn be more loving in the process of detaching.

Yes, I think that is totally key! The visualization that the headspace meditation runs you through starts with imagining yourself happy and at peace, then the next step is imagining someone else happy and at peace. I think it is no accident that it is in that order  

Even when I have been able to be in a state of loving kindness towards my ex, I still often find myself very angry at BPD as a "thing" (ridiculous I know). I suppose I can find good in it in the sense that those BPD responses and behaviors must have helped my ex survive some really tough times when she was most vulnerable (as a child to a mom with BPD too).  

[kc sunshine]

I guess I would need more info, but if it means what I assume it means, I detach with loving-kindness in a way.  

To me, this means coming to grips with reality:  I will never "teach her a lesson", nor is it my responsibility to do so.  I will never get through to her, so if I need to act to change things for my kids I need to just do it and follow through all the way.  Confront her directly will paint a target on mine and my children's backs, so I need to let go of most things and pick my battles.

And it means doing so in a way that is kind but with proper boundaries and an understanding of where my responsibility lies and what things I need to protect myself from.  My ex and I get along well, but I do not respond to personal conversation.  I do not "let her in" in that way.

We had our dog put down a month or so ago -the dog we had from when we first got married.  He was old and had cancer.  So, we had him put down together.  It was very sad.  Moments after he passed away, she broke down and sobbed.  We walked out, and she sobbed more.  I got her a drink of water, some tissues, rubbed her back for a minute, and waited.  A few minutes later, I told her, "I have to go.  I can drive you back home and you can come get your car later if you aren't okay to drive, but I have to get back to work."  She asked if I would follow her home.  I agreed, and then I rolled down my window as she got back home, gave her our dog's leash to keep for herself, said bye and left.

This goes against much of the conventional wisdom discussed here in the group, and I wouldn't recommend it for many people, but I do okay with it.  I have zero desire to be with her, I am not bothered one bit about her being with other people, and I keep things kind and cordial while keeping firm boundaries.  It took me a lot to get here, including lots of therapy.  I never thought I would be in this place, but I am, and I continue to improve.

Wow, that is a beautiful story Out of Egypt, something to strive for. Thanks for sharing it. Can you explain what you mean by " Confront her directly will paint a target on mine and my children's backs"?

[vortex of confusion]

Even when I have been able to be in a state of loving kindness towards my ex, I still often find myself very angry at BPD as a "thing" (ridiculous I know). I suppose I can find good in it in the sense that those BPD responses and behaviors must have helped my ex survive some really tough times when she was most vulnerable (as a child to a mom with BPD too).  

Part of being loving and kind is allowing myself to feel the anger. I have every right to be angry. Any normal person that has dealt with what I have would be angry. But, being angry does not mean that it is okay for me to lash out at my spouse or anybody else. If I lash out, I take responsibility and make amends if possible. I am angry at my husband and his behaviors. I am angry at myself and my own behaviors. I have lots of anger but I try to allow myself to feel the anger and find productive ways of dealing with it. If there is something in my behavior that makes me angry, I try to identify ways to change that. If there is something in my husband's behavior that makes me angry, then I try to understand why it makes ME angry. I see it as a sign that I haven't detached enough or there is more to work through.

When I say I look for the good, I try to remember what it was about my husband that attracted me to him in the first place. Sure BPD is heinous but underneath it all, there is a scared and wounded child. If I can see that scared and wounded child, I am not nearly as apt to react or behave in ways that are in-congruent with my value system. 

[Tater tot]

KC- I really like where you are coming from with this thread. I think you have to protect yourself. By protecting yourself I think it comes from understanding that your experience with your ex wasn't about you (both the good and the bad of the relationship) and that can be hard to grasp and accept. Then to accept that while your ex may have done horrible things, and those things should not be excused, you can't change what's happened. Your ex has a mental illness that causes her to act or react in very limited ways that will hurt those who care the most about her. It's not intentional, nor is it personal (as in about you, because nothing is or has been about you). Finally, (and this is my approach) How she treats you is a reflection on her, how you treat her, is a reflection on you. Walk away with your head high and your heart full, that you remained the kind hearted and geniune person that you are, that she didn't take that from you.

Your compaassion and kindness make me smile, as i'm sure it does to many people that know you.

[OutOfEgypt]

Can you explain what you mean by " Confront her directly will paint a target on mine and my children's backs"?

kc, I just mean that when, for example, she does something crappy to the kids or is neglectful of them in some way, it does nothing to confront her directly.  When I do, even if I try to do it kindly, she may talk to my kindly but she gets very defensive and takes it out on the kids.  For example, one time I confronted her because my youngest complains of eating only one meal a day over there.  My ex recently told me that she force-feeds my youngest, now, so that she won't run back to me and complain. 

These are people that cannot handle any blame or anything putting a spotlight on their ridiculous, hurtful, or neglectful behavior.  So, confronting them directly only provokes attack or other defensive behavior.  The best course, for me, is to encourage my kids, even encourage her, and intervene legally when I am ready to go all the way and follow through, if things don't improve.

[OutOfEgypt]

One would like to think so, but no.  My best friend's ex wife is likely BPD, as well, and he took the "I'm not going to let her get away with that"/"I'm not going to ever let her have control again" mentality for years.  At the risk of being simplistic, he's been unhappy, dealing with regular arguments, and constantly stressed or under threat from his ex wife for years.  He's recently started asking me how to handle things differently.  In my opinion, when you have to have some kind of interaction with them, a generally non-adversarial approach is best:  not an adversary, yet STILL my own person.  The more my ex feels the need to compete with me or protect herself from me, the more my kids suffer because of it, and the more stressed I am.

[Mr Hollande]

One would like to think so, but no.  My best friend's ex wife is likely BPD, as well, and he took the "I'm not going to let her get away with that"/"I'm not going to ever let her have control again" mentality for years.  At the risk of being simplistic, he's been unhappy, dealing with regular arguments, and constantly stressed or under threat from his ex wife for years.  He's recently started asking me how to handle things differently.  In my opinion, when you have to have some kind of interaction with them, a generally non-adversarial approach is best:  not an adversary, yet STILL my own person.  The more my ex feels the need to compete with me or protect herself from me, the more my kids suffer because of it, and the more stressed I am.

And in the middle are children whose only sin is being born with one monster parent. I don't have children myself and I don't know much about parenting. I don't have any interest in or understand them but kids becoming casualties of bad parents is just so appalling to me. It's heart breaking. I truly feel for you and your children.

[Deeno02]

I wouldnt piss on her face if it was on fire. I have no regard for her in any way, shape or form after her disgarding me like scraping dog doo of her shoe. I have never felt this much pain in my life and she deserves zero kindness. However, Im forced by the fact that by virtue of her coaching my son, I will have to have some type of interaction. The season is still some months down the road yet. Fortunately, I will be among a group of other parents, so getting attached one on one will be difficult for her to do as I can beat a hasty retreat. Plus, shes soo engrossed with the replacement now, Im not even on the radar, but as we all know, that could change in a heart beat.

I would love to hear your suggestions on how to handle these interactions if they arise. Remain aloof?, Pleasant?, Indifferent?, Friendly?,

[OutOfEgypt]

pleasantly indifferent and detached

[kc sunshine]

Pleasantly indifferent and detached-- that is wonderful! I'll have that attitude as my goal.

Also, I hope to become grateful for the good things we had (without longing to return) and to be able to wish for her peace and happiness. I'll work on both.

[tim_tom]

Hi all,

Does anyone have any good tips or experiences with gaining detachment through (or perhaps with) loving kindness? That seems like the best way to go, if possible.

I'm doing the "heart" series on this guided meditation link, I'll let you all know if it is helpful: https://www.headspace.com

Any other tips?

whatever way that makes sense for you to process it

the most important thing is the most basic ... .NC !

what is working for me is meeting other girls... .nothing serious but it's a stark reminder of 2 things I think we all forget

1) There are other women out there that would be interested in us

2) How crappy our BPD's were to be around

Who needs thier ___, I mean really

[Deeno02]

Hi all,

Does anyone have any good tips or experiences with gaining detachment through (or perhaps with) loving kindness? That seems like the best way to go, if possible.

I'm doing the "heart" series on this guided meditation link, I'll let you all know if it is helpful: https://www.headspace.com

Any other tips?

whatever way that makes sense for you to process it

the most important thing is the most basic ... .NC !

what is working for me is meeting other girls... .nothing serious but it's a stark reminder of 2 things I think we all forget

1) There are other women out there that would be interested in us

2) How crappy our BPD's were to be around

Who needs thier ___, I mean really

Well said... .

[Panda39]

Disclaimer... .I'm in a relationship with a man with a uBPDxw.  I am not in a direct relationship with a pwBPD but this topic resonated with me.

We had our dog put down a month or so ago -the dog we had from when we first got married.  He was old and had cancer.  So, we had him put down together.  It was very sad.  Moments after he passed away, she broke down and sobbed.  We walked out, and she sobbed more.  I got her a drink of water, some tissues, rubbed her back for a minute, and waited.  A few minutes later, I told her, "I have to go.  I can drive you back home and you can come get your car later if you aren't okay to drive, but I have to get back to work."  She asked if I would follow her home.  I agreed, and then I rolled down my window as she got back home, gave her our dog's leash to keep for herself, said bye and left.

I really liked this example.  You treated her with the common courtesy that you would probably give to an acquaintance (someone you are not emotionally invested in).  You kept an emotional aloofness by that I don't mean coldness just a distance and treated her as a human being that just lost someone she loved.  You also seemed to keep an emotional situation from escalating to full fledged exaggerated drama.  Very nicely done  

Me? I have a ways to go with my SO uBPDxw. I'm at a better place than I was earlier in my relationship but it is still a very mixed bag.

Lying is an extremely "hot button" for me even before going into the relationship with my honey.  So having this person in my life that lies constantly about anything and everything really triggers me.  I carry a lot of anger that will start to quiet and then just be re-triggered again by some crappy thing she says or does. I also have dehumanized her because of the many irrational and hurtful things she has done.

I do recognize that I can't control what she does that I can only control how I react and am getting better at letting go.  Over time I've also been able to see some patterns in her behaviors that have allowed me to expect certain behaviors from her so I'm not completely taken by surprise which also helps. I've come to expect certain lies that she recycles over and over so I don't get as upset about those anymore.

I have also had moments of mindfulness when I can have compassion for her, when I recognize she is mentally ill, that she is a mother, that she lost her husband, lost custody of her children, has lost her home (lives in a hotel now) but she is not the victim she portrays herself to be.  These things did not just happen to her in a vacuum.

So I guess for me it's a combination of working on my own anger... .letting it go and showing more compassion towards her as a flawed human being.

[OutOfEgypt]

I'm still learning this stuff, by the way, so here is one thing I want to really stress.  No amount of cordial, kind, but detached "niceness" is going to stop them from being how they are.  I was reminded of that this morning as I got text-bombed from my ex.  I got about a dozen messages telling me what a terrible, unbelievable person I am because when we talked the other day (something about the kids) she changed the subject and mentioned something about how it hurt her feelings when I "accused" her of doing something, three months ago.  Now, I didn't accuse her -I asked her- but that was enough for her to feel accused.  Anyway, she brought it up the other day and I said to her, "well, I'm sorry that hurt your feelings."  Probably 5 days ago.  This morning, I am bombarded with insults and accusations about what a terrible and fake person I am because the apology wasn't real.  I wasn't "sorry", I was "sorry that hurt her".  

And predictably, she's saying how she's "done" being nice to me and that I can just wait at the curb to pick up the kids on Sunday.  Childish.

I'm not going to reply to any of those messages.  Not one.  There are many things I want to say, but I won't.

The take-away lesson for me is that no matter how detached but friendly I can be with her, she is going to act out.  In fact, letting her get too close (close for her, by being friendly and talking about things other than our children) is likely part of what has triggered this garbage.  That... .and that she likely knows I have a girlfriend that I'm serious about.  I'm learning that being "nice" is fine... .but keep her out in all ways possible, and even then she's still going to act out.

[Panda39]

OutOfEgypt,

No amount of cordial, kind, but detached "niceness" is going to stop them from being how they are.

I actually thought about this after posting this morning.  That part of the interaction you had with your ex regarding the dog was her good behavior too.

You're right the person with BPD will always have BPD and act accordingly. But we don't have to act like they do, we can control our emotions and we can behave in a rational caring way or at least aspire to.    We can take the "high road" so to speak.

I'm learning that being "nice" is fine... .but keep her out in all ways possible, and even then she's still going to act out.

Yes, she will always act out it's the nature of untreated BPD and my SO and I live in very much the same way you do regarding his ex the less she knows about us and our lives the better because she is always trying to insert herself into it.  But being "nice" or showing compassion does not mean you relax your boundaries.  (I know as well as you give an inch and she will take 100 miles.   )

It's very hard to be kind to someone that has hurt you and continues to do so. 

I tried to be kind when I told my (alcoholic) ex when I wanted a divorce but when I did he wouldn't accept it he went looking for confrontation and I did my best (was not always successful) not to take the bait.  I knew my leaving was painful and I just tried in my own actions to not make it any worse.  Did that make the situation any less difficult or painful no, but I know that I treated my ex the best I could.  He was my husband for almost 20 years he deserved at the very least my consideration.

P.S. I want to support your decision not to respond to the "Text Bomb" totally the right move.  Don't feed the drama 

[kc sunshine]

I'm still learning this stuff, by the way, so here is one thing I want to really stress.  No amount of cordial, kind, but detached "niceness" is going to stop them from being how they are.  I was reminded of that this morning as I got text-bombed from my ex.  I got about a dozen messages telling me what a terrible, unbelievable person I am because when we talked the other day (something about the kids) she changed the subject and mentioned something about how it hurt her feelings when I "accused" her of doing something, three months ago.  Now, I didn't accuse her -I asked her- but that was enough for her to feel accused.  Anyway, she brought it up the other day and I said to her, "well, I'm sorry that hurt your feelings."  Probably 5 days ago.  This morning, I am bombarded with insults and accusations about what a terrible and fake person I am because the apology wasn't real.  I wasn't "sorry", I was "sorry that hurt her".  

Yes, I can totally imagine getting text bombs like that myself! The reality of being a trigger for her bad behavior was intense for me to come to terms with, and sometimes hard for me to wrap my mind around it. When I'm at my best, I think of it like an allergy-- she loves me but is allergic to me in the BPD trigger sense.

[Bee Girl]

I so appreciate the compassion in this way of dealing with the difficulty of detaching from a pwBPD. I am there, now. The only tip I can think to offer is to make sure the loving kindness is first and foremost to yourself, as well as your pwBPD. I completely understand the anger on these boards, I feel it myself sometimes, but I don't want to feed that anger, but acknowledge it as a catalyst to change, I guess. It's his anger that drove me out of my relationship, and it feels like it needs an antidote, of sorts, and loving kindness feels like a healing antidote. So is being grateful. Just put yourself first. 

[Lion Fire]

I've been practicing this for months with varying success... .some days I loathe her, others I see her as someone with a mental disorder and I get the odd moment of seeing her light, as God's child... .

I have had to deal with and accept that I don't feel ok about the dreadful things she said, that I still feel hurt and angry at times. I don't kid myself that I'm fine about the way things were but my true intentions are to get to a lasting place of peace and acceptance so that I can move on in my life. I believe this will free her up -even on an unconscious level. May we both be free... .

All I can say is fake it till you make it... .and stay NC if possible 

[kc sunshine]

Yes, it is soo much easier to be in a place of loving kindness when you are in NC! That alone is a good reason to be NC . It is mighty hard to stay lovingly kind in the middle of a blame attack. Any stories of people being able to keep in a lovingly kind mode when under attack? I guess the main thing then is just leave.

[tim_tom]

Yes, it is soo much easier to be in a place of loving kindness when you are in NC! That alone is a good reason to be NC . It is mighty hard to stay lovingly kind in the middle of a blame attack. Any stories of people being able to keep in a lovingly kind mode when under attack? I guess the main thing then is just leave.

No the main thing is to exorcise these emotional

vampires from your heart souls and minds.

It doesn't matter if you do it with kindness or hate , just put them in the rear view mirror and don't look back