Unintentional Abuse

[Depression = 72% of members]

Unintentional abuse, do you believe there is such a thing?

I've mentioned in a few threads of recent the strange realisation I am having with the concept that my non-ex partner was abusive towards me particularly in an emotional way. I truly don't think he meant to be that way but a somewhat warped upbringing had made him think this was normal.

I notice the similarities though with pwBPD, is it unintentional abuse due to their programming? Does all unintentional abuse stem from PDs or mental illness?

Can those who commit unintentional abuse ever recover and change their ways? For example I really don't know if my non-ex would go to therapy if I approached him and suggested he had a problem, he had quite the ego and I am sure he would disagree and patronise my thinking; HOWEVER I do wonder whether this new relationship with a BPDgf will perhaps give him a nasty bump down to Earth and make him reconsider.

So, is it possible, do you feel, for this type of abuser to get better? Could they be talked around? Or would they need a nasty shock to realise their faults?


EDIT - Additionally, can anyone recommend any good reading material on this type of topic?

[Springle]

Unintentional abuse, do you believe there is such a thing?

I've mentioned in a few threads of recent the strange realisation I am having with the concept that my non-ex partner was abusive towards me particularly in an emotional way. I truly don't think he meant to be that way but a somewhat warped upbringing had made him think this was normal.

I notice the similarities though with pwBPD, is it unintentional abuse due to their programming? Does all unintentional abuse stem from PDs or mental illness?

Can those who commit unintentional abuse ever recover and change their ways? For example I really don't know if my non-ex would go to therapy if I approached him and suggested he had a problem, he had quite the ego and I am sure he would disagree and patronise my thinking; HOWEVER I do wonder whether this new relationship with a BPDgf will perhaps give him a nasty bump down to Earth and make him reconsider.

So, is it possible, do you feel, for this type of abuser to get better? Could they be talked around? Or would they need a nasty shock to realise their faults?


EDIT - Additionally, can anyone recommend any good reading material on this type of topic?

[vortex of confusion]

There is some disagreement among psychologists as to whether or not unintenional abuse is really abuse.

I found a couple of links that might help:

www.projecteve.com/understanding-unintentional-abuse/

www.e-psychologist.org/index.iml?mdl=exam/show_article.mdl&Material_ID=4

[nullset]

I suspect most abuse is unintentional. People with PDs (other than antisocial PD) experience their problems as problems with the world and everyone else. But that doesn't excuse harmful behavior.

If your partner is doing something that is harmful enough to threaten your relationship, learn to set boundaries and communicate your needs (I recommend Marshall Rosenberg's Nonviolent Communication and the work of John Gottman). Your partner may or may not respond. If they don't you have to decide if you can accept their behavior for the rest of your life, or if you need to move on.

[Turkish]

I struggled with this. She could often keep herself under control, but behind closed doors, the fountain erupted. It wasn't just me, as I'd seen her treat family members horribly at times (I think this is a large part why they were sympathetic and still love me), and also our kids. Then she would calm down, and turn to waif, bemoaning the fact and admitting that she felt horribly for treating me that way, and that she hated that the kids saw it (I think she was exaggerating the latter part, or I may have just been dissociating the behaviors). So mine was aware, but aware enough that she often couldn't control it. Sometimes when I was holding her tightly in bed she'd say, "I'm such a b___ to you, but I'm your b___." 

For the record, I never called her that, nor even thought of her in those terms. Often after an episode, she was driven by shame. I know she didn't want to be like that, but often she couldn't control it at the time. Now parted, the kids are seeing it. As they grow, as much as she's trying to make an effort to control it, this will only get worse. I lived this childhood  :'(

[Blimblam]

I think the root of abuse is a disconnection with compassion.  I believe most people compartmentalize the part of themself held by fear pain and shame.  That part they can not process gets projected when they identify this part of themself in another and the abuse is their own self contempt projected outward. It is an attempt to control this part of themself by controlling another through manipulation.

I believe this to be universal and pds are just an extreme form of this.

[myself]

Abuse occurs when the abuser has lost self-control.

The original impulses may be disordered/unintentional.

At what point is the person choosing to not make a change?

[Turkish]

I think the root of abuse is a disconnection with compassion.  I believe most people compartmentalize the part of themself held by fear pain and shame.  That part they can not process gets projected when they identify this part of themself in another and the abuse is their own self contempt projected outward. It is an attempt to control this part of themself by controlling another through manipulation.

I believe this to be universal and pds are just an extreme form of this.

I asked her once how she felt during a rage, and if she was thinking about its impact on others. She replied, "I just want everyone else to feel my pain!"

Compassion. Empathy. Out the window when she was dysregulating. The year before The Great Detachment, I remember thinking, "there's something wrong with her, almost as if her parents didn't teach her basic morals." It was so much deeper than that, however. I started resenting her, by me seeing her how she really was, which my White Night had previously been denying. She felt my resentment, which started to drive her away.

[going places]

I am not a doctor, but 'unintentional abuse' is an oxymoron.

It's like saying "non-violent rape"

It's like saying "quiet explosion".

I personally cannot and will not make excuses for ex's choices.

Maybe it came from his upbringing, maybe from abuse, maybe ________ BUT when it's laid out clearly for him that his behavior is not only abnormal, but abusive AND he refuses to correct the behavior?

THAT becomes a 'choice'... .and 'choosing to abuse' is very, intentional.

Get better?

No.

Realize they are abusing?

Maybe, but they don't care because it serves them, so why rock the boat?

Get 'knocked down' a notch by someone else like them or worse?

I really doubt it... .

[Blimblam]

Abuse is not just done by people with BPD or PDs. When I hear unintentional

Abuse I think of self rightiousness. Someone that thinks they are helping you while they hold you in contempt and judge you. Or they are "just following orders."  Or scapegoating in general. In the end the abuser justifies it to themself, "I am right they are wrong." "I am here to help you," while I criticize you. It is all forms of scapegoating, if you look at the origin of the scape goat it is linked to a biblical passage of Lazarus the sacrificial goat and is linked to the iconic image of the devil with the goats head.  The thing is we all do it to some extent. It is difficult to become aware of it also. Every time I have confronted someone about it they are in such deep denial they will not acknowledge it either.  People that do it tend to bring it out in others and if you admit that you did it they will blame you then rally people against you.  It happens all the time. Often the manipulator doing the rallying decieves his or her supporters so they end up abusing you too thinking they are doing the right thing. 

[going places]

I am not a doctor, but 'unintentional abuse' is an oxymoron.

It's like saying "non-violent rape"

It's like saying "quiet explosion".

I personally cannot and will not make excuses for ex's choices.

Maybe it came from his upbringing, maybe from abuse, maybe ________ BUT when it's laid out clearly for him that his behavior is not only abnormal, but abusive AND he refuses to correct the behavior?

THAT becomes a 'choice'... .and 'choosing to abuse' is very, intentional.

Get better?

No.

Realize they are abusing?

Maybe, but they don't care because it serves them, so why rock the boat?

Get 'knocked down' a notch by someone else like them or worse?

I really doubt it... .

I cannot modify, so let me add that I will no longer make excuses for his choices.

I tried the whole "blame this or that" for his behavior.

I blamed MYSELF for a while.

I tried to excuse it saying his childhood was messed up (divorced parents, Sociopath/Narccisst Dad)

I tried all the excuses in the book (dang I must have looked like a power tool to people).

Now?

He is an Abuser. Period.

He chooses, to abuse... .he has done it so long, it's woven into the fabric of his being.

It is, who he is.

His arrogance and ego will not allow him to seek help, as he thinks everyone else in the world is wrong.

He knows it all.

God says "Pride goes before the fall".

Happy landing bro!

[Pingo]

I am not a doctor, but 'unintentional abuse' is an oxymoron.

It's like saying "non-violent rape"

It's like saying "quiet explosion".

I personally cannot and will not make excuses for ex's choices.

Maybe it came from his upbringing, maybe from abuse, maybe ________ BUT when it's laid out clearly for him that his behavior is not only abnormal, but abusive AND he refuses to correct the behavior?

THAT becomes a 'choice'... .and 'choosing to abuse' is very, intentional.

Get better?

No.

Realize they are abusing?

Maybe, but they don't care because it serves them, so why rock the boat?

Get 'knocked down' a notch by someone else like them or worse?

I really doubt it... .

I have to agree with this.  Many people grow up in miserable situations, many of us on here have.  But not everyone ends up being an abuser.  Like Blimblam mentioned, there is a sense of 'self righteousness'.  They wouldn't do it if they didn't feel they had a right.  Unless they are a psychopath lacking all empathy.  We all want to make sense of abuse.  We don't want to believe that the person is just that 'ugly' that they would be capable of abuse.  So we like to find ways to explain it, things to blame it on.  Believe that it couldn't possibly be 'intentional'.  I know, I've done it as well.  That's why it took me so long in the r/s to even realise he was abusing me.  I kept finding excuses for it.  In the end, whatever the reason, the fact is abuse is abuse.  And no one deserves it.  And from all I've read and learned about the abuser, until they are ready to stop blaming their past or you or whatever their excuse is, they will not change.  They have to be 100% accountable and responsible for their own healing.

[going places]

I am not a doctor, but 'unintentional abuse' is an oxymoron.

It's like saying "non-violent rape"

It's like saying "quiet explosion".

I personally cannot and will not make excuses for ex's choices.

Maybe it came from his upbringing, maybe from abuse, maybe ________ BUT when it's laid out clearly for him that his behavior is not only abnormal, but abusive AND he refuses to correct the behavior?

THAT becomes a 'choice'... .and 'choosing to abuse' is very, intentional.

Get better?

No.

Realize they are abusing?

Maybe, but they don't care because it serves them, so why rock the boat?

Get 'knocked down' a notch by someone else like them or worse?

I really doubt it... .

I have to agree with this.  Many people grow up in miserable situations, many of us on here have.  But not everyone ends up being an abuser.  Like Blimblam mentioned, there is a sense of 'self righteousness'.  They wouldn't do it if they didn't feel they had a right.  Unless they are a psychopath lacking all empathy.  We all want to make sense of abuse.  We don't want to believe that the person is just that 'ugly' that they would be capable of abuse.  So we like to find ways to explain it, things to blame it on.  Believe that it couldn't possibly be 'intentional'.  I know, I've done it as well.  That's why it took me so long in the r/s to even realise he was abusing me.  I kept finding excuses for it.  In the end, whatever the reason, the fact is abuse is abuse.  And no one deserves it.  And from all I've read and learned about the abuser, until they are ready to stop blaming their past or you or whatever their excuse is, they will not change.  They have to be 100% accountable and responsible for their own healing.

Spot on!