Fear of disapproval

[Depression = 72% of members]

I have had the most profound lightbulb moment this morning.

You could even say it was 'deLIGHTful' hahahaha.

I have been annoyed at the overwhelming number of people and organisations that haven't been listening to me.

Thinking on what I have been doing to contribute to this dynamic as I prepared to make a 4th phone call to chase something up that should have been taken care of (or at least I should have been notified about) I had this sudden picture of a celebrity chef well known for bad language and rude behaviour.

I thought about how hard people try to win his approval on his terms.

I also had this stray thought about Casanova - one of his quotes that I found intriguing is this: "Be the flame and not the moth."

This all came together in a bright flash: I am SCARED OF SHOWING DISAPPROVAL!

I thought about it.

Even further, I am unsure of my right to even be entitled to FEEL disapproving!

How wonderful to know that.

It doesn't stop my heart racing at the idea of disapproving someone out loud but it does make me curious as to what might happen if I did? Or rather what do I THINK might happen if I did?

What terrible punishment could someone possibly wreak on me?

Now I'm a large tall sturdy kind of person. They couldn't really knock me over easily.

I'm also a fairly tenacious kind of person. They couldn't talk me out of it.

They might withdraw a service or a benefit or reward of some kind but I could likely find those things elsewhere.

So really what do I have to lose?

Actually I have something to gain. Perhaps by showing disapproval, they might change their response and give me what I want!

now there's a reward indeed!

Hmmm. I gotta go now and ring the company and frown at them over the phone.

Wish me luck

Ziggiddy

[Ziggiddy]

I have had the most profound lightbulb moment this morning.

You could even say it was 'deLIGHTful' hahahaha.

I have been annoyed at the overwhelming number of people and organisations that haven't been listening to me.

Thinking on what I have been doing to contribute to this dynamic as I prepared to make a 4th phone call to chase something up that should have been taken care of (or at least I should have been notified about) I had this sudden picture of a celebrity chef well known for bad language and rude behaviour.

I thought about how hard people try to win his approval on his terms.

I also had this stray thought about Casanova - one of his quotes that I found intriguing is this: "Be the flame and not the moth."

This all came together in a bright flash: I am SCARED OF SHOWING DISAPPROVAL!

I thought about it.

Even further, I am unsure of my right to even be entitled to FEEL disapproving!

How wonderful to know that.

It doesn't stop my heart racing at the idea of disapproving someone out loud but it does make me curious as to what might happen if I did? Or rather what do I THINK might happen if I did?

What terrible punishment could someone possibly wreak on me?

Now I'm a large tall sturdy kind of person. They couldn't really knock me over easily.

I'm also a fairly tenacious kind of person. They couldn't talk me out of it.

They might withdraw a service or a benefit or reward of some kind but I could likely find those things elsewhere.

So really what do I have to lose?

Actually I have something to gain. Perhaps by showing disapproval, they might change their response and give me what I want!

now there's a reward indeed!

Hmmm. I gotta go now and ring the company and frown at them over the phone.

Wish me luck

Ziggiddy

[Inside]

Ziggiddy, I approve

That was fun, following your thought process…

Gosh, I fear that I disagree, and dare to show it a bit too much... .  Sometimes I’ll have a tinge of regret or anxiety over having ‘opened my mouth’ where most wouldn’t have.  But the reaction I’ll consistently receive is respect?  It’s weird; having expected ‘the worse,’ as in a hostile rebuttal, most back down, understand my concern ... .and we go from there.

... .actually, in several of my organizational pastimes I find myself most upset with those who refuse to get upset - so look out

I don’t think there’s any narcissism taking place ... .I really do hold back as best I can.  And I’m fully willing to negotiate…  Heck, seems if I were ‘that’ intolerant I’d never have passed my uBPDxgf’s litmus test

Well, if nothing else - welcome to the club!

[Tiepje3]

I have had the most profound lightbulb moment this morning.

You could even say it was 'deLIGHTful' hahahaha.

I have been annoyed at the overwhelming number of people and organisations that haven't been listening to me.

Thinking on what I have been doing to contribute to this dynamic as I prepared to make a 4th phone call to chase something up that should have been taken care of (or at least I should have been notified about) I had this sudden picture of a celebrity chef well known for bad language and rude behaviour.

I thought about how hard people try to win his approval on his terms.

I also had this stray thought about Casanova - one of his quotes that I found intriguing is this: "Be the flame and not the moth."

This all came together in a bright flash: I am SCARED OF SHOWING DISAPPROVAL!

I thought about it.

Even further, I am unsure of my right to even be entitled to FEEL disapproving!

How wonderful to know that.

It doesn't stop my heart racing at the idea of disapproving someone out loud but it does make me curious as to what might happen if I did? Or rather what do I THINK might happen if I did?

What terrible punishment could someone possibly wreak on me?

Now I'm a large tall sturdy kind of person. They couldn't really knock me over easily.

I'm also a fairly tenacious kind of person. They couldn't talk me out of it.

They might withdraw a service or a benefit or reward of some kind but I could likely find those things elsewhere.

So really what do I have to lose?

Actually I have something to gain. Perhaps by showing disapproval, they might change their response and give me what I want!

now there's a reward indeed!

Hmmm. I gotta go now and ring the company and frown at them over the phone.

Wish me luck

Ziggiddy

Nice timing! I've been dealing with the same thoughts. I lend a friend of mine money to buy paint and then sell it on the black market (he's a painter with connections blahblahbla) and I would get 25% intrest on my investment, which of course sounds good. He is the father of my son's girlfriend, so almost family. That was four months ago. He's been stringing me on now with all kinds of excuses and today I sent him a text (don't want to confront him... .yet) that he could at least propose to pay me back in instalments, as I am in a financially tight situation due to divorce issues.

While writing the text, I was shaking, scared, had this stomach ache and actually... .WHY? He's the one that took my money and has to pay it back. He's the one postponing that with all kinds of excuses. He's the so-called friend that doesn't give ___ about my dire financial situation. So why am I so upset.

So reading your post about 'fear of disapproval' is good timing. I think for me the root of the problem is that I always want to be liked by people and that's probably also the reason why I stayed with uBPD/NPDstbxh for so long. He would call me names and I just took it. He would rage at me and I just took it.

Don't know yet how to overcome this fear, but realising that that is a problem is a step in the right direction isn't it?

[Trollvaaken]

I am not big and sturdy like Ziggiddy.

I am constantly anxious and am always creating hierarchies where there are none (and in those hierarchies, I am never on top). I am worried about disapproving glances that strangers might give me. I will cross the street if someone is soliciting just because I find it hard to say "no, thank you."

When I was in high school, it was especially bad. I would talk for other people: I would begin talking on my own behalf, then belittling/reprimanding myself out loud by imitating my mother's voice, then I would defend myself and I would spend my days doing this. My uBPD mother would find it funny at times, sometimes she would add "I wouldn't say something that hurtful/I'm not even thinking that."

I don't feel entitled to disagree. If I want to criticize a person, I first look at myself, see a fault, and then because of one single thought, feel like I have a right to speak at all. I like to write and have been wanting to start a blog for a long time, but feel like I cannot even write an opinion because it could offend someone or because I am unworthy of speaking.

This isn't necessarily related to BPD, anyone can have anxiety. I hate to be all "mother-bashing", but my mother has this glare, I am not the only one who noticed it, and when she looks at you like that, it's like you regress to a child-like state. Plus, when I feel like I have been bad, it is my mother who is judging me in my head.

So basically, I feel like I cannot criticize anyone unless I myself am above reproach (which I usually am not).

[Ziggiddy]

Thanks for your replies, guys.

While writing the text, I was shaking, scared, had this stomach ache

I think for me the root of the problem is that I always want to be liked by people

I appreciate your honesty there, Tiepje3. I completely get that - your adrenalised response to that situation. It's not rational at all is it? more based in emotion.

I have read in some traumatology article that the response may well be rooted in having been punished in some deep way for daring to ask for what is our right.

I remember having that sensation in dealing with a business matter in which I was clearly  the wronged party. Fortunately it wasn't time-urgent and I stopped to really think about my response.

While I was shaking and my stomach was roiling, I tried to stop and think of other times this sensation had been provoked.

I had a clear memory of getting in trouble for something that wasn't really my fault - or rather had been strongly provoked by very unfair treatment I was getting.

I used a swear word - GASP! Worse, my dad heard it and yelled at me to come right there that instant.

I had completely forgotten how much adrenaline and nauseating fear I had felt when I got in trouble with my dad.

What was worse was that he wouldn't listen to my side! I had sworn and that was not on for girls so I copped the punishment. Regardless of the fact that my brother was recording over my favourite tape out of spite and karate chopping me to stop me from getting near enough to stop him.

I guess I put the punishment, the nausea, fear, pain and INJUSTICE all together and the resultant bundle came out under similar circumstances.

I reworked the memory then, giving myself permission to yell and swear at my brother as well as castigate my father  and then i gave myself a hug for being so brave and standing up to these huge dominant figures.

It's not solved but it's a mighty way better!

[Ziggiddy]

I am not big and sturdy like Ziggiddy.

I am constantly anxious and am always creating hierarchies where there are none (and in those hierarchies, I am never on top). I am worried about disapproving glances that strangers might give me. I will cross the street if someone is soliciting just because I find it hard to say "no, thank you."

When I was in high school, it was especially bad. I would talk for other people: I would begin talking on my own behalf, then belittling/reprimanding myself out loud by imitating my mother's voice, then I would defend myself and I would spend my days doing this. My uBPD mother would find it funny at times, sometimes she would add "I wouldn't say something that hurtful/I'm not even thinking that."

I don't feel entitled to disagree. If I want to criticize a person, I first look at myself, see a fault, and then because of one single thought, feel like I have a right to speak at all. I like to write and have been wanting to start a blog for a long time, but feel like I cannot even write an opinion because it could offend someone or because I am unworthy of speaking.

This isn't necessarily related to BPD, anyone can have anxiety. I hate to be all "mother-bashing", but my mother has this glare, I am not the only one who noticed it, and when she looks at you like that, it's like you regress to a child-like state. Plus, when I feel like I have been bad, it is my mother who is judging me in my head.

So basically, I feel like I cannot criticize anyone unless I myself am above reproach (which I usually am not).

Trollvaaken I believe that the degree to which we criticise ourselves is commensurate with the amount we were shamed as kids and the length of time it happened for.

The insidious the thing about that shame is that we take it upon ourselves - as you mentioned, it is your mother's voice and not your own.

It may be that you have significant grief for the child that you were - lonely neglected, criticised and shamed for being normal and doing normal things that your abnormal parent could not tolerate about themselves

You appear to have lost contact with that part of you that SO deserves to be loved and nurtured - mainly because you were not taught to believe that YOU were worth being loved and nurtured. Are you able to try and place the blame for awful growth-stunting parenting where it truly belongs? With your growth stunted parent?

It's not your fault. it's really not.

I am truly truly sorry that you didn't get the care that would have led you to an automatic understanding that you are very worthy of love and you have the RIGHT (not privilege) RIGHT to demand that you are treated with justice and respect.

I hope you can take the time to reflect on the kid you were and grieve for all that that kid lost or din't get.

Peace and blessings

Zig

[Trollvaaken]

In my case, I don't think it was my mothers reproaches that hurt me the most, but the idealisation. I was there to support my mother and make her laugh and I did my best to obey, but it was an unrealistic standard.