A Scenario. Letting a BPDex Come Back.

[Algae]

I have a scenario I'd like to play out below.  Please note that by, 'Scenario', I don't mean 'Play Games'.  This is in no way, 'Playing mind Games'.  This is just a way to see if there is a way (if any) to still involve the BPDex into your life, without having a relationship.  Yes, Going N/C is still the best as it can hurt you to talk to or see them... but the scenario just points out all the options and what could happen with those options.  Plus, this scenario will mostly revolve around me, since I am curious at to what would happen.

Scenario:

    You've been split once again and it's about the 7th time.  They usually come back crying and wanting you back after they've had their fill of the outside life without you.

    So far they've just replaced you, and haven't talked to you ONCE since they cheated/broke up.  They have a record of doing this and have come back everytime.  Everytime they come back you ALWAYS give in, and you ALWAYS let them, and you resume the relationship... forgiving everything they did. (which is bad).

    When they come back (which they will), they usually try everything they can to get you back.  They make you gifts, talk to you for hours, cry to you... and agree with your anger and say that they're a horrible person and need help.

    This time if they come back, you plan on talking to them and showing your anger... showing your hate and showing your aggression.  You plan on showing how much you really don't care about losing them anymore.  You plan on basically treating them just like every other normal person you text, which means...

"Sometimes reading a text and not responding right away."

"Replying with just, Yep."

"Ignoring them all day, sometimes."

"Telling them youre going on a date or that you're busy."

"You NEVER text first"

    You plan on talking to them the exact same way you would if you just met a random person at college or work... that you find NO attraction in.  Which means they always text you first, and you almost never have time for them.

    You plan on keeping them in your life however and basically 'friendzoning' them and talking to them normally.



HOW WOULD they react?  You've just let your BPDex come back... but you've set STRONG boundaries with her and are not with her romantically.  Would they move on?  Or would they become a creepy BPD ex that continues to try to ruin my life when we just want to move on.

[rizi78]

I THINK THEY WOULD TRY MORE HARDER TO GET YOUR ATTENTION AFTER GETTING IGNORED BY YOU

[Blimblam]

Algae from my experience and others they will stay in contact but see other people at the same time if they have the opportunity.  They may or may not lie about.  I'm my experience if my ex sensed "weakness " or me hurting she would take pleasure in it and further hurt me intentionally. It seemed to me they will see if they can hurt you and if they can they will but it's about them avoiding shame.  The other issue is about expecting reciprocity.  What it really comes down to is if you have fully healed from past truama. And being honest with yourself that being friends with them is a form of recycle.

[myself]

Each of us is different. Every story's different. Every ex is, too.

I could be 'friends' with my ex if I wanted to share a minefield with her.

Is it "letting them come back" or not letting them go?

[peiper]

No way in hell would I give her the satisfaction. I'm worth much more than that.

[Infern0]

What would be the goal here?

Chances are she will cry and call you mean and things like that.  Then get bored and find someone else.

[KeepOnGoing]

Algae, why do this? It's like trying to outsmart a psychotic fox. Our BPDs are sick and disordered. If we don't HAVE to deal with them, why would we? Because we must NEED something from them. Or maybe we think we are somehow getting even? It then becomes a mind game after all, doesn't it.

[Skip]

Algae,

We need to let go of our own emotional immaturity. To an outsider looking in - many of us are operating at a not too impressive level.

So, in looking at your scenario,

1. what would happen if she did it to you? what would members say about her? how wold you react?

2. isn't this just more of the same drama and bad transactional dynamics (cycle of conflict)?

3. even if someone is desperate enough to accept this - as many of us know and have done  - the damage and resentment is inevitable?

4. BPD is characterized by severe rejection sensitivity - won't this really hurt?

5. is this who you want to be?

Skip

[Algae]

Algae,

We need to let go of our own emotional immaturity. To an outsider looking in - many of us are operating at a not too impressive level.

So, in looking at your scenario,

1. what would happen if she did it to you? what would members say about her? how wold you react?

2. isn't this just more of the same drama and bad transactional dynamics (cycle of conflict)?

3. even if someone is desperate enough to accept this - as many of us know and have done  - the damage and resentment is inevitable?

4. BPD is characterized by severe rejection sensitivity - won't this really hurt?

5. is this who you want to be?

Skip

Well I just figured it as like... .

I have many best friends that I talk to daily who I would NEVER EVER be with... ew.  But when I met them, it started out with them flirting with me or me flirting with them and sometimes doing stuff.

I just figured if I could treat my BPD ex of 4 years as a normal person and show her that I don't care for her and show her that Im not bothered then... she'd cut the crap... and stop trying to make me jealous and stop with the mind games, and start being a normal human being.

I could be wrong ofc.  I'm just writing on here to see if its right or wrong.

[Blimblam]

Algae

How long have you been no contact?

With my first uBPD ex who was rather low functioning. It's wasn't untill I let to that I was attractive to other women and then i was attractive to her too. Untill I reached that point she didn't respect me.  At that point her actions couldn't hurt me anymore.  The fact she couldn't hurt me made me attractive to her.  She was no longer in control of me and she wanted that back.  At that point I realized what a mess it would be to go down that path again.

[Caredverymuch]

I have a scenario I'd like to play out below.  Please note that by, 'Scenario', I don't mean 'Play Games'.  This is in no way, 'Playing mind Games'.  This is just a way to see if there is a way (if any) to still involve the BPDex into your life, without having a relationship.  Yes, Going N/C is still the best as it can hurt you to talk to or see them... but the scenario just points out all the options and what could happen with those options.  Plus, this scenario will mostly revolve around me, since I am curious at to what would happen.

I understand your conversation points but I must point out the most important issue. Tactics used as in the Venus/Mars concept are not realistic to a BPD r/s.  This is a disorder so, each scenario you have suggested would be met with very different response, governed by the disorder:

You've been split once again and it's about the 7th time.  They usually come back crying and wanting you back after they've had their fill of the outside life without you.

    So far they've just replaced you, and haven't talked to you ONCE since they cheated/broke up.  They have a record of doing this and have come back everytime.  Everytime they come back you ALWAYS give in, and you ALWAYS let them, and you resume the relationship... forgiving everything they did.

Our boundaries were too weak or we merely misunderstood the disorder. If we allowed a 7th recycle, we are recyclable. We are a back up source of need based supply to alleviate abandonment fear bought on by engulfment of their present or new partner.  If we had stronger, none negotiable boundaries from the get go, they may tended to have done a bit better in the r/s and we would not be in a position of allowing ourselves to be recycled.

When they come back (which they will), they usually try everything they can to get you back.  They make you gifts, talk to you for hours, cry to you... and agree with your anger and say that they're a horrible person and need help

Abandonment fear, baiting, projections to keep back up supply.

This time if they come back, you plan on talking to them and showing your anger... showing your hate and showing your aggression.  You plan on showing how much you really don't care about losing them anymore.  You plan on basically treating them just like every other normal person.

They are not just like any other normal person.  Their disorder is rooted in trauma.

Sometimes reading a text and not responding right away."  

Possible abandonment trigger igniting temporary baiting

Replying with just, Yep."  

Supply source still intact. No further action needed. I got a reaction.

Ignoring them all day, sometimes.

Split black

Telling them youre going on a date or that you're busy.

Split black,  possibly replaced, dissociated.

You NEVER text first"

 

No supply source left here. Time to move on.

You plan on keeping them in your life however and basically 'friendzoning' them and talking to them normally.

   

Not possible in the context you propose.  

HOW WOULD they react?  You've just let your BPDex come back... but you've set STRONG boundaries with her and are not with her romantically.  Would they move on?

We didn't have strong boundaries to begin with, which is why we got to this place in the r/s. Partners with strong boundaries who provide consistency and predictability actually are better for BPDs, even thought they may resist intially.  Unfortunately, if we are in a place of allowing a 7th recycle (as I did), we were not one of those partners and cannot just become one now.  

I really do understand your topic. Before I knew my ex was BPD, which was after he left me, I dabbled in the  same thoughts.  Nothing about the BPD breakup is alienable to a normal situation.

[Algae]

Very good reply.  

So then theres basically no way to help them at all, and all we can do is dub them a lost cause?  A broken human that has to live the remainer of their life hurting even more people with no fix or anything  ?  And anyone who dates a BPD... it will basically be set it stone that it will fail?

[Skip]

I was commenting mostly on this sentence.

This time if they come back, you plan on talking to them and showing your anger... showing your hate and showing your aggression.  

If you take this out and make this a controlled contact (vs no contact) that can take a lot of the anxiety of NC away.

The key is not start a drama over how she wronged you or a long list of rules or how you don't care.  Just - lets be friends and lets agree not talk about the old relationship . Simple.

"You NEVER text first"

Good practice.

If she does any button pushing - ignore it.  If she makes demands - politely decline or don't respond.

It will slowly dissolve to nothing.

[Algae]

^ thats strange I guess someone else edited my post

Anyway

It's just hard to understand . 

I mean hear me out... .I don't really want to help her (white knight syndrome)... I'm just trying to comprehend it all.

When someone has Cancer, you give them Chemo.  When someone has epilepsy, you give anti-seizure meds.  When someone is overly Aggressive, you send them to Anger managment.

When someone has anything... theres a way to usually make it subside a little.  Not with BPD?

[Blimblam]

Algae,

She may or may not find the help she needs to improve her life. I think most of us here in our rs with our ex felt like they completed us in someway and formed our identity based on the 2 of us as 1.  So when they leave we feel like something is missing we can find many things to fill this void to make up our identity but when it is a so in a relationship this gives that other person control over us. It gives whoever controls the substance we use to fill this void control over us.  

I found myself bargaining about some sort of hypothetical situation with me ex to keep her in my life but really it's me bargaining with myself to have the object it used to make me feel whole back in my life.  But unless I can control that object I don't feel I have control over myself.  For this reason a rs with my ex is not possible for me. Not unless I find something else to fill that void to feel whole.

Here is a link to the shel Silverstein story the missing piece. I remember a poster when I was in kindergarten. "Everything I ever needed to know in life i knew in kindergarten."  

www.youtu.be/MCmZ2jrQooE

[Caredverymuch]

Hi Algae,

^ thats strange I guess someone else edited my post

The software guys fixed this.   

And, I apologize for the formatting errors here.  My PC is in the shop and using a foreign computer to me.

They are not a lost cause. They have a serious disorder. Which is so difficult to understand and depersonalize.

Techniques that members on the staying board utilize are far different than the scenario you offered.  A r/s with a pBPD is not like a r/s with a non.  In truth, I am not strong enough as many partners are.

When my ex left me, I wanted to do so much of what you posted.  Badly.  I really thought this would show him. Would allow me to take that upper hand.  How dare he do this to me.  Again. The next time he tries,  I WILL be the person to set the tone. And I will give him the same exact treatment he gave me. I was right there in that thinking.

Then, I did some of those things.  Thinking, of course he will respond accordingly. Absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that.

I was wrong on every count.  More learning here.

Reading the efforts on the staying board showed me how disillusioned I was.  

But I sure get where you are coming from in asking algae and none of this is easy.

[Skip]

When someone has anything... theres a way to usually make it subside a little.  Not with BPD?

BPD is not a death sentence.  And most people that have made progress have strong family support and a structured environment.  But thats typically not the ex boyfriend.

As an ex-BF you can help reduce the abandonment anxiety as I mentioned above - for both of you.  It's an OK mature thing to do.

She may test it or try to manipulate it or sabotage it - it happens.  Best case, it will be a pressure release that allows things t expire in time.

[Algae]

Hi Algae,

^ thats strange I guess someone else edited my post

They are not a lost cause. They have a serious disorder. Which is so difficult to understand and depersonalize.

Well its hard to understand because, pretty much every disorder or illness can be handled in a way that suppresses it.  Like i stated in a post above.  But all i've heard from these boards or read about BPD is basically, "Oh well... get away, move on."

Like there's nothing in life that can fix them, ever.

Cancer --> Chemo

Anger --> Anger Managment

Epilepsy --> Anti-Sieze meds

Depression --> anti- Depressants

BPD --> ? Ignore them and move on/push them away?

When someone has anything... theres a way to usually make it subside a little.  Not with BPD?

BPD is not a death sentence.  And most people that have made progress have strong family support and a structured environment.  But thats typically not the ex boyfriend.

As an ex-BF you can help reduce the abandonment anxiety as I mentioned above - for both of you.  It's an OK mature thing to do.

She may test it or try to manipulate it or sabotage it - it happens.  Best case, it will be a pressure release that allows things t expire in time.

I guess I understand a bit

[Skip]

But all i've heard from these boards or read about BPD is basically, "Oh well... get away, move on."

Like there's nothing in life that can fix them, ever.

Algae,

We have a parenting board here with many success stories.  We have a Staying board with family successes.  We have technical reprints showing cure rates in the 80+ range.

You're posting on the Leaving Board.  These are the failed relationships.  And there are a lot of codependent types here (who as a whole, tend to be blamers) and a lot of depressed people (who tend to have cognitive distortions).  You're not going to Learn about recovery here  

This is a place to learn extraction and detachment.

[Waifed]

My psych who has been in practice over 40 years told me that I needed to run from the relationship. He said their was no possible positive outcome. This is a website for many differing situations and some can not get away from their BPD due to their circumstances. From everything I have read over the past 13 months improvement is negligible for the vast majority of pwBPD, and the "successes"/cures are based on improving enough to not meet the minimum criteria for BPD. I believe if there were no politics or people's situation/hope to consider the overwhelming consensus would be that most pwBPD don't recover often at all and when they improve it is negligible. It takes a person who is willing to give up most of themselves to be in any lasting relationship with a pwBPD. Why would you want to sacrifice your life to be with someone who isn't truly capable of meeting your needs?  It is heartbreaking to see people who look healthy but are emotionally stunted. Of course I am referring to those with more serious BPD traits.

To answer your question, I think a pwBPD would agree to the terms to get you back in their lives until they secured a new source of "love". Any recycled relationship would likely be doomed because the triggers are already there. Theyare looking for the "love" of their lives and know already that a recycled relationship doesn't offer that.

[Aussie0zborn]

I'm sorry but I won't even read your scenario. As you said in the introduction, NC is the best way to go and any contact can hurt you. This being the case, why even bother with possible scenarios? After what a non-BPD person with a BPD partner has been through, how would it improve the quality of a non's life?

As consumers, we look for value for money. If we don't get value for our money, we generally want the supplier to "make good". This means not only replacing the product but throwing in a little bonus to make up for any inconvenience caused. So after the "inconvenience" of a BPD relationship how will get back your time and effort as well as some added value to compensate your loss by maintaining a friendship? You can't. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and move on. Other times, therapy is  a good idea to keep us away from dreaming up these scenarios where everything is just rosy and we get a sense of satisfaction that we are now in control. I don't believe you can control any situation that involves a person with BPD and I question any motive wanting such control.

[Skip]

What would be the goal here?

Is it "letting them come back" or not letting them go?

why even bother with possible scenarios?

These are really good questions, Algae.

Is it to fix her?

As for the part where I do want her to message me back... Well I do want her to message me back.  Not to get her back.  But I'm just so furious that anyone telling me "just move on", can get the hell back (Im not a rude person x_x I'm just super stressed at the moment)  Because I want this girl to KNOW what she did wrong... and to realize that she needs total help and to KNOW what she lost.  I want her to get help.

Is it to ease your separation anxiety (or hers)?

Is it the belief that her relationship with you is the "real one" as she returns to you after all her "adventures"?

But, you mention the odds cant be good for a rebound relationship.

But i don't really see this as a rebound relationship.  Wouldnt a rebound relationship involve her leaving me, and hiding the pain by getting with someone else?  That's the complete opposite of what she did.

She basically cheated on me (for the 6th time), and hooked up with someone else while still being with me, and dumping me to the curb just to be with a random guy she met.

Something else?

[peiper]

Algae

How long have you been no contact?

With my first uBPD ex who was rather low functioning. It's wasn't untill I let to that I was attractive to other women and then i was attractive to her too. Untill I reached that point she didn't respect me.  At that point her actions couldn't hurt me anymore.  The fact she couldn't hurt me made me attractive to her.  She was no longer in control of me and she wanted that back.  At that point I realized what a mess it would be to go down that path again.

Amen Skip,  well said

[patientandclear]

The key is not start a drama over how she wronged you or a long list of rules or how you don't care.  Just - lets be friends and lets agree not talk about the old relationship . Simple.

"You NEVER text first"

Good practice.

If she does any button pushing - ignore it.  If she makes demands - politely decline or don't respond.

It will slowly dissolve to nothing.

I don't understand the basis for this assurance. It certainly was not my experience. I offered a drama-free reconnection as friends. My ex found this delightful and used me as a pseudo-partner but with no obligations for a protracted period. It did not dissolve to nothing. We all have read hundreds of stories of pwBPD triangulating, which requires a third party (or activity or place) to be available as a rescuing contrast to the persecutor or a persecuting contrast to the rescuer. A friendly ex is very useful for that. I hope no one will go this route thinking it will dissolve to nothing. That post r/s friendship was the most ethically and emotionally challenging chapter in my life so far. Please don't undertake something like that thinking it will be no big thing.

I'm wondering, Skip, why you say never texting first is a good practice? I did it actually, as a way to make sure I wasn't engulfing and as a guard against rejection, which I couldn't take after having felt so rejected and replaced by this guy before I really understood BPD. It "worked" in the sense that we achieved a balance that allowed us to communicate without either of us feeling uncomfortable, for quite a while. But it seems like a coping mechanism, rather than a "good practice." Can you share your thoughts on that point?

[FoolishMan]

Algae,

We need to let go of our own emotional immaturity. To an outsider looking in - many of us are operating at a not too impressive level.

So, in looking at your scenario,

1. what would happen if she did it to you? what would members say about her? how wold you react?

2. isn't this just more of the same drama and bad transactional dynamics (cycle of conflict)?

3. even if someone is desperate enough to accept this - as many of us know and have done  - the damage and resentment is inevitable?

4. BPD is characterized by severe rejection sensitivity - won't this really hurt?

5. is this who you want to be?

Skip

Well I just figured it as like... .

I have many best friends that I talk to daily who I would NEVER EVER be with... ew.  But when I met them, it started out with them flirting with me or me flirting with them and sometimes doing stuff.

I just figured if I could treat my BPD ex of 4 years as a normal person and show her that I don't care for her and show her that Im not bothered then... she'd cut the crap... and stop trying to make me jealous and stop with the mind games, and start being a normal human being.

I could be wrong ofc.  I'm just writing on here to see if its right or wrong.

Do you expect to 'cure' her of her mental illness with this manipulation tactics you propose? I honestly don't understand why you'd want to do this... .

[FoolishMan]

Very good reply.  

So then theres basically no way to help them at all, and all we can do is dub them a lost cause?  A broken human that has to live the remainer of their life hurting even more people with no fix or anything  ?  And anyone who dates a BPD... it will basically be set it stone that it will fail?

Why not leave her to live her life as she wants? Haven't you read much on this site? Your scenario is absurd and would cause pain for both of you... .to what purpose?

[strikeforce]

I cant understand people that would take their BPD back 7 times or more, twice was enough for me.

I'm not judging anyone and I don't mean to come across as cold but insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result.

The whole situation is a wake up call to look hard at ourselves.

[Skip]

I cant understand people that would take their BPD back 7 times or more, twice was enough for me.

38% of the Leaver's in this poll had 6+ breakups.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=120215.0

When its into these high numbers it becomes a conditioned normalcy.  The rules are out the window.  No one knows where the horizon is anymore.

[Aussie0zborn]

Haven't you read much on this site? Your scenario is absurd and would cause pain for both of you... .to what purpose?

Just as well I didn't waste my time reading the scenario. I didn't read it because the introduction to the scenario was absurd in itself.

Wake up to yourself, man. Pull yourself together and stop dreaming. Get over this nonsense of you having to prove that she was wrong and you were right. It's not going to happen. Get a therapist. Read all the resources here and do what's best for you and that is NO contact. Further interaction is not the key to your happiness.