Is everyone on here sure it's BPD? I'm battling.

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi there again,

I'm aware BPD is a very difficult diagnosis to reach for even experienced professionals in the mental health field. I've also read that pwBPD can outsmart even the best psychologists when faced with questions about their past history or traumatic events and tend to present their "false self" to clinicians in particular. Is this the case and how do we know as nons that it is in fact BPD our ex partners have... .especially if a professional diagnosis is so hard to get?

My ex went to see a psychiatrist during the time we were together but she insisted it was to do with her BDD (body dismorphic disorder) and the fact that she couldn't sleep for days on end. There was no recognition of anything else on her part other than those two issues. When she came out she seemed very pleased with herself that she'd been told he "didn't think she had any personality disorder" ... .but she was on a good day that particular day and quite calm. She then started telling me how the psychiatrist had told her how attractive and lovely she was? She was more concerned about what he thought of her and her looks than recognising any issues that needed to be addressed?

My point is (sorry for babbling) are we as nons assuming it's BPD to maybe help us get over the break up or reconcile in our minds that the awful things our exes have done to us are the result of this disorder and not simply because they're just a horrible and selfish person who knows exactly what they're doing?

I don't mean this to be an antagonistic thread, I'm just really struggling with not knowing if I've got this "diagnosis" of my ex correct. She has every trait I've ever read about though and I've now read a lot. She also has a history as a victim of sexual and emotional abuse and all this behaviour I'm reading about fits everything she's ever done. Some of her "acting out" behaviour was extreme to say the least.

I just wish I could trust my own judgement. I've never had a relationship like this (and I'm 44) and trying to make sense of it is messing with my head. I've come to the conclusion that yes, she does have this painful mental disorder but am I doing that more for me? Am I simply trying to make it easier for myself by labelling her even though I know she has all the traits and behaviours. If she hasn't had a diagnosis from a professional then is it right for me to assume her erratic and cruel behaviour could be BPD?

I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say. As you can tell, she was a master of "gaslighting" too. I struggle to have faith in my own instincts and intuition anymore... .

Have most other people on here had a confirmed diagnosis for their exes or are some of us in the same boat simply trying to make sense of things? 

[Butterfly44]

Hi there again,

I'm aware BPD is a very difficult diagnosis to reach for even experienced professionals in the mental health field. I've also read that pwBPD can outsmart even the best psychologists when faced with questions about their past history or traumatic events and tend to present their "false self" to clinicians in particular. Is this the case and how do we know as nons that it is in fact BPD our ex partners have... .especially if a professional diagnosis is so hard to get?

My ex went to see a psychiatrist during the time we were together but she insisted it was to do with her BDD (body dismorphic disorder) and the fact that she couldn't sleep for days on end. There was no recognition of anything else on her part other than those two issues. When she came out she seemed very pleased with herself that she'd been told he "didn't think she had any personality disorder" ... .but she was on a good day that particular day and quite calm. She then started telling me how the psychiatrist had told her how attractive and lovely she was? She was more concerned about what he thought of her and her looks than recognising any issues that needed to be addressed?

My point is (sorry for babbling) are we as nons assuming it's BPD to maybe help us get over the break up or reconcile in our minds that the awful things our exes have done to us are the result of this disorder and not simply because they're just a horrible and selfish person who knows exactly what they're doing?

I don't mean this to be an antagonistic thread, I'm just really struggling with not knowing if I've got this "diagnosis" of my ex correct. She has every trait I've ever read about though and I've now read a lot. She also has a history as a victim of sexual and emotional abuse and all this behaviour I'm reading about fits everything she's ever done. Some of her "acting out" behaviour was extreme to say the least.

I just wish I could trust my own judgement. I've never had a relationship like this (and I'm 44) and trying to make sense of it is messing with my head. I've come to the conclusion that yes, she does have this painful mental disorder but am I doing that more for me? Am I simply trying to make it easier for myself by labelling her even though I know she has all the traits and behaviours. If she hasn't had a diagnosis from a professional then is it right for me to assume her erratic and cruel behaviour could be BPD?

I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say. As you can tell, she was a master of "gaslighting" too. I struggle to have faith in my own instincts and intuition anymore... .

Have most other people on here had a confirmed diagnosis for their exes or are some of us in the same boat simply trying to make sense of things? 

[Blimblam]

No one here can be sure and we are not in a position to diagnose.

But as I read earlier "if the shoe fits"

[Chunk Palumbo]

There's certainly a possibility that some -- not just on here, but across the internet -- are misdiagnosing their partners with BPD. I wouldn't put it solely down to mental gymnastics; most people are not professional psychological health advisors.

In my case, I know the last ex has it (uBPD), due to the fact that she exhibits even stronger traits of another ex who was twice professionally diagnosed with it.

The thing is, you can raise your question til the cows come home and there'll be no true answer. Every case deals with individuals.

[MrConfusedWithItAll]

I made a list of the crazy I had to put up with so I knew there was something wrong.  I read about a fear of abandonment and knew my ex was an adoptee.  I read about all the symptoms and knew they applied. 

[Butterfly44]

Blimblam... .you've always come up with some great and very wise answers to my questions. I've found your posts very helpful, thank you. Remember when I was asking about the FB thing and her checking in on me? You said it was about "painting white" again. She still hasn't been in contact with me at all but I've stopped trying now. She was on FB again yesterday (reactivated her account) but then disappeared again very quickly. Do you think it's even possible that she could "paint me white" again after going to the extreme of having me arrested and then disappearing? Is it even possible that the reason she has cut me off is because she's ashamed to face me after what she did to me? If she has truly "painted me black" then why keep looking at what I'm doing. I'm still struggling with this concept of "splitting"? 

[Bak86]

I'm 90% sure my ex has BPD, there's always a little uncertainty. Does it matter? No. I know what happened, i know how she is. A BPD label doesn't matter. I know that she is unstable and i need her to stay away from me. I need healthy people in my life.

Yes it does help explain things. It sure does. But wether she's BPD or just a b___, it doesn't really matter. She can go screw herself.

[Butterfly44]

My ex was at the extreme end of all the traits I've read about. There were times when I felt I was going out with an alien. I can't even begin to explain some of the things that have happened or the way she used to get with me. I think I've lost all concept of what's normal this last two years. I keep asking myself if it was normal to wake me up at 4am whilst shoving a photo of her ex into my face and yelling about how stunning she was? And that was mild compared to some things she did. I just find it hard to believe I got caught up with a person with such an extreme personality disorder. First time I've ended up in counselling too as a result... .it's been a really rough ride and I know there's a long way to go. I did know she wasn't quite right from the start :-/

[Butterfly44]

Bak, you're right, it doesn't matter. She was vile to me in the end and I don't need that in my life from anyone. I think wanting someone like that in my life says more about me and that's what I need to address... .sad as that may be.

[Blimblam]

Blimblam... .you've always come up with some great and very wise answers to my questions. I've found your posts very helpful, thank you. Remember when I was asking about the FB thing and her checking in on me? You said it was about "painting white" again. She still hasn't been in contact with me at all but I've stopped trying now. She was on FB again yesterday (reactivated her account) but then disappeared again very quickly. Do you think it's even possible that she could "paint me white" again after going to the extreme of having me arrested and then disappearing? Is it even possible that the reason she has cut me off is because she's ashamed to face me after what she did to me? If she has truly "painted me black" then why keep looking at what I'm doing. I'm still struggling with this concept of "splitting"? 

In my experience it had to do with what's going on in their life.  At the same time my ex liked to leave sort of cryptic messages intended to read into on her social media. Some of it directed towards specific people while at the same time meaning something else to another.  For example after rejecting my ex she threw in my face a bunch of things that were special to us and did with other people. So it meant something special to them and hurt me. At the same time she might have shared that experience with a previous  ex and it had been long enough it meant something special to him.

The thing is as someone wisely mentioned to me on here, that reading into the tea leaves will drive you crazy and keep you attached trying to make sense of their world and find meaning to it.  It is meant to entice attachment and give her a sense of identity.  By looking at it you are choosing to remain in the fog.

[Aussie JJ]

BPD, NPD, person who abused me. 

Either way, forget the diagnosis, most psychologist do this and concentrate on reducing the harm that the behaviours cause for these people.  Forget the diangnosis, concentrate ont he harm that the behaviours have on you. 

Dont ask me to explain, I cant explain.  What are you willing to tollerate?  BPD or not, we all describe the same behaviours. 

[Butterfly44]

Thanks Blim; wise words as always,

As I've said before, I guess I just want to know that I mattered or that I still matter somewhere inside her head. She always said I was different but I suppose they say that all the time to people who started off being idolised. I still find it really difficult that she has completely cut me out of her life when we used to talk every day for hours for two years? What makes this lack of contact even harder is that it was me who was falsely arrested and treated really badly by her? I just don't know how she can live with herself and still make out to everyone around her that I'm this hideous person who deserves this kind of treatment? Part of me wonders if she's still refusing contact for the sake of the lies? I mean what would you say to people around you after having your partner arrested if you then got back in touch? It wouldn't really give credence to her stories about me if she suddenly started talking to me again. It seems to be all about how they appear in other people's eyes... .no matter how fake.

[Butterfly44]

Aussie, you're right. The behaviours fit completely and abuse is still abuse whatever a person's diagnosis or not. I know she was abusive and accused me of being the abuser. I know now about the manipulations and lies and the cheating. I know she "gaslighted" me and I know she 's told lie upon lie about me to anyone who will listen... .even semi strangers?

I think her biggest issue with me now is that she knows I know... .I'm not one of her sycophants and I started to suss her out. What other choice does she have now than to get rid of me; I'm seen as nothing but a threat to her "mask" now and that's more important than showing any "care" for me. It's sad.

[Blimblam]

I think it's important to realize it's not just a mask. Her emotions for you were authentic but if she had the disorder than when it is triggered and she devalues you she feels great shame about this because she does indeed care.  It is proof she does.

She cares and you were important to her.  But

Now you are a trigger for her pain and sadly you should leave her alone for her sake and your own.

At this point she is probably a trigger for your own pain and for this reason i recommend no contact and not looking at her social media. To give you space to heal.

[Butterfly44]

I'm a trigger for her pain Blimblam? As in if she stayed in contact with me, it would increase the shame of what she did and the pain she feels because of the way she treated me? You mean she does actually recognise what she's done and that's exactly why she's staying away? Contact with me will just trigger all the emotions she cannot deal with? If so, then yes... .that really is sad because I don't hate her at all; even after what she's done to me :-(

[Blimblam]

I'm a trigger for her pain Blimblam? As in if she stayed in contact with me, it would increase the shame of what she did and the pain she feels because of the way she treated me? You mean she does actually recognise what she's done and that's exactly why she's staying away? Contact with me will just trigger all the emotions she cannot deal with? If so, then yes... .that really is sad because I don't hate her at all; even after what she's done to me :-(

If you are painted black you are a trigger. If you remind her about the pain and the past it will trigger her. The fact she had to run away from you is proof she cares. It's a twisted existance. And it's sad. You are stuck to process this pain. It's your pain now. Your pain to feel and release yourself from and this is the journey you are on. Don't take my word. Look within for answers and solutions.

"All the kings horses and all the kings men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again"

You have to put yourself back together. No one can do it for you.

[tim_tom]

I think we all battle with this at times, my T is the one that told me it sounds like BPD, I'm running with it

[Butterfly44]

Thank you Blimblam for taking the time to respond. I know I have no choice but to walk away too. It makes it even harder in a way knowing she does care if that's what all this is about. Maybe one day she won't see me this way; who knows? But fingers crossed, I'll be in a better place and it won't matter so much as it does now. I know I can only move forwards; there's no going back. It is a very painful journey I'm on and yes, even seeing her pop up every now and then on FB triggers the most intense pain and hurt immediately. It really knocks me for six! The connection even in that tiny way has the most powerful effect and it's not in a good way; it makes my stomach turn and knot. It's almost as though it's proof she's alive and existing somewhere in that moment when I see her face on my screen again. It's also proof she hasn't quite yet broken that connection either and seemingly doesn't want to deep down. She has the ability to block me when she is online and she hasn't in nearly two months but as you say, I can't make that my concern anymore. I'm holding onto crumbs and I'm worth more than crumbs in anyone's life.

Thank you for your kind words and insight; it really helps.

[SickofMe]

A BPD label doesn't matter. I know that she is unstable and i need her to stay away from me. I need healthy people in my life.

I sorta want to stencil this on my living room wall.

The thing is, unless you are some sort of Buddhist master, it's just too difficult--emotionally, mentally, physically--to stay in a r/s with someone who is so unstable and has so little to offer in terms of a healthy partnership.  Most of us want that sort of connection, one that is grounded in love and security.  There is no safety and security in a r/s with someone who can't bond properly.

I also think it's important to realize that they aren't consciously flipping the switch from black to white, it helps with compassion.  Compassion feels better than hate and blame.

My ex used to have periods of time that he referred to as "curling up in the fetal position, under a blanket on the couch." We didn't live together, so I don't know if this was literal or figurative, but I do know these moods could last anywhere from a day or two to several weeks.

He also told me that what I was calling the Silent Treatment was not premeditated or punitive, that he would become overwhelmed by conflict/emotion and just go blank inside.  To tell the truth, I didn't really believe it at the time, but now I think he's probably dissociative and "went somewhere else" mentally when he was feeling too much stress.  And he couldn't handle much stress, at all.

Recently, he made contact with me and apologized for "being mean" (he totally blacked me, nothing subtle) and said that he felt being mad was easier than being heartbroken.  The thing is, I don't think someone can really choose being "angry."  I think his mind goes there bc it is safer there, less vulnerable.  They don't want to be vulnerable for real... .it's too scary.  Vulnerability and intimacy are two sides of the same coin.

As far as the psychiatrist goes... .I'd not worry too much about that.  Psychiatrists are just people like the rest of us, and can be manipulated, charmed, misled.  I think only a professional who develops a true therapeutic relationship with the client is qualified to diagnosis a personality disorder.  That doesn't happen in one 50 minute visit.  Or two, or three, or four... .unless the client is very self-aware and honest about what's going on.  Again, this is very difficult for a person with a personality disorder bc they are so heavily defended, psychologically, and are terrified of being vulnerable.  I can't think of anything more vulnerable than therapy (if it's done correctly, ha!) I think some people go to therapy to get a "get out of jail free card."  They aren't there for the right reasons, they are there to prove a point--"My T said I am healthy."

Nothing is easy or black and white when it comes to psychology.  The human mind is so complex and when it tries to understand itself (or another's mind) it's a pretty paradoxical.

I just wish I could trust my own judgement. I've never had a relationship like this (and I'm 44) and trying to make sense of it is messing with my head. I've come to the conclusion that yes, she does have this painful mental disorder but am I doing that more for me? Am I simply trying to make it easier for myself by labelling her even though I know she has all the traits and behaviours. If she hasn't had a diagnosis from a professional then is it right for me to assume her erratic and cruel behaviour could be BPD?

Nobody trusts their own judgment when they've been emotionally abused.  I say:  yeah, it's okay for you to use the BPD paradigm if it fits and helps you learn to take care of yourself.  No professional dx necessary.

[Butterfly44]

A BPD label doesn't matter. I know that she is unstable and i need her to stay away from me. I need healthy people in my life.

I sorta want to stencil this on my living room wall.

The thing is, unless you are some sort of Buddhist master, it's just too difficult--emotionally, mentally, physically--to stay in a r/s with someone who is so unstable and has so little to offer in terms of a healthy partnership.  Most of us want that sort of connection, one that is grounded in love and security.  There is no safety and security in a r/s with someone who can't bond properly.

I also think it's important to realize that they aren't consciously flipping the switch from black to white, it helps with compassion.  Compassion feels better than hate and blame.

My ex used to have periods of time that he referred to as "curling up in the fetal position, under a blanket on the couch." We didn't live together, so I don't know if this was literal or figurative, but I do know these moods could last anywhere from a day or two to several weeks.

He also told me that what I was calling the Silent Treatment was not premeditated or punitive, that he would become overwhelmed by conflict/emotion and just go blank inside.  To tell the truth, I didn't really believe it at the time, but now I think he's probably dissociative and "went somewhere else" mentally when he was feeling too much stress.  And he couldn't handle much stress, at all.

Recently, he made contact with me and apologized for "being mean" (he totally blacked me, nothing subtle) and said that he felt being mad was easier than being heartbroken.  The thing is, I don't think someone can really choose being "angry."  I think his mind goes there bc it is safer there, less vulnerable.  They don't want to be vulnerable for real... .it's too scary.  Vulnerability and intimacy are two sides of the same coin.

As far as the psychiatrist goes... .I'd not worry too much about that.  Psychiatrists are just people like the rest of us, and can be manipulated, charmed, misled.  I think only a professional who develops a true therapeutic relationship with the client is qualified to diagnosis a personality disorder.  That doesn't happen in one 50 minute visit.  Or two, or three, or four... .unless the client is very self-aware and honest about what's going on.  Again, this is very difficult for a person with a personality disorder bc they are so heavily defended, psychologically, and are terrified of being vulnerable.  I can't think of anything more vulnerable than therapy (if it's done correctly, ha!) I think some people go to therapy to get a "get out of jail free card."  They aren't there for the right reasons, they are there to prove a point--"My T said I am healthy."

Nothing is easy or black and white when it comes to psychology.  The human mind is so complex and when it tries to understand itself (or another's mind) it's a pretty paradoxical.

I just wish I could trust my own judgement. I've never had a relationship like this (and I'm 44) and trying to make sense of it is messing with my head. I've come to the conclusion that yes, she does have this painful mental disorder but am I doing that more for me? Am I simply trying to make it easier for myself by labelling her even though I know she has all the traits and behaviours. If she hasn't had a diagnosis from a professional then is it right for me to assume her erratic and cruel behaviour could be BPD?

Nobody trusts their own judgment when they've been emotionally abused.  I say:  yeah, it's okay for you to use the BPD paradigm if it fits and helps you learn to take care of yourself.  No professional dx necessary.

Wow... .thank you Sick. You have hit the nail on the head in so many areas here. My ex used to spend so much time in the fetal position and in front of me too; screaming and crying on the floor about how she couldn't cope and then it would turn into anger towards me and that's when the disasterous retaliations towards me would take place. I often stood there and just didn't know what to do or how to calm her down and admittedly (sadly) I sometimes got so frustrated that I would lash back and say horrible things but I just didn't know what was going on at the time with the vile and hurtful things she would say when she was in that state. I had no idea at the time it was a mental disorder she had and I've since beaten myself up because of my own reactions to the senseless and untrue things I was always being accused of. She would then come back to me and demand cuddles etc... .but I was often so hurt by the things she'd done and said that I couldn't then just hold her and tell her everything was going to be ok. She would hurt me too much and then would expect me to forget about the things she'd said and show her affection? Then the accusations, hatred and blame would start from her again. She just didn't seem to understand how damaging her comments were and how much they pushed me away? I can't just cuddle or placate someone with my love when they've just called me every hurtful name you could possibly imagine and told me how much better everyone else is than me?

She couldn't cope with any stress of any kind at all and blamed me for all the unhappy feelings she was having; they were all my fault according to her. I did my best not knowing then what I know now... .the more I look at things from a distance, the more I realise that given her traumatic past, she fits the BPD paradigm perfectly. It does help me when I read about the condition and can make a little more sense of her behaviour and perhaps why now she can only cut me out of her life as a means to protect herself. She had only ever had a relationship lasting a maximum of 4 months before me and I think after two years I really did get too close for comfort. We had only been living together for a very short period of time before she had me arrested and left... .I wanted to offer a normal way of life and I tried but I just don't think she could sustain it at all; I think it scared her too much... .very sad for us both really.

Thank you for your great response.

[going places]

www.buzzle.com/articles/sociopath-symptoms-of-a-sociopath.html

www.buzzle.com/articles/how-to-identify-and-deal-with-a-narcissistic-sociopath.html

www.narcissisticbehavior.net/the-effects-of-gaslighting-in-narcissistic-victim-syndrome/

I participate on another site that has zero, nothing to do with mental health... .and another member private messaged me after one of my comments to say she was familiar with what I was going thru and suggested this site and a couple of books.

I saw an advocate that recommended 'group meetings' where I found out that *I* was not alone, and *I* was being abused... .I always thought abuse was black eyes and busted lips. Several books were recommended, and I did my own research in medical books and college texts books dealing with psychology and physiological aspects of what he was doing to me and why.

I searched for 2 1/2 years trying to find answers: "WHY is this happening" "WHAT did I do wrong" "WHAT can I do to fix this?" " WHY am I not enough" and "WHY doesn't this make sense".

He drove me to the brink of destruction; I had become someone I did not know... .and I didn't know how to get back to who I was, and I didn't know how or when in the hell it happened.

If our relationship only lasted 8 months and was based upon sex and rock climbing then yeah, I'd say (for me) it would make more sense to look at it logically and say "Well, it was about the sex and rock climbing, and so, yeah, it was doomed from the start"

But after 25 years, 3 kids, etc... .I needed more answers.

And I thank God, someone out there had answers!

[Turkish]

With her current insurance company, my Ex would never be diagnosed even if they thought it fit. I have the same insurance and I asked them. My mother admitted to me a few months ago that one of her therapists over 20 years ago suggested in a roundabout way that she was BPD (which explains my mom's comment about my ex, "of course she's BPD" months before that. My mom's a registered nurse, but not a therapist). Thus I felt a little less guilty after I joined the FM board months ago to talk about my mom, because I started to put more of the puzzle together and started wondering.

I almost armchair diagnosed my Ex with BPD in year 1, though a few things didn't quite fit, or I dismissed them.

My Ex was diagnosed with depression in year 3 of our r/s. She accepts it, though I didn't need a profional dX to tell me what I knew already. She often told me she felt empty. The instantly triggered anger I already knew. At the end, she self diagnosed as having an unnamed attachment disorder. I withheld comment. Her cycle was going to therapy only when she felt bad, but making little overall progress. She refused to consider mood stabilizing meds which her T suggested.

All in all, would it matter much? We have members whose SOs have official diagnoses. Sometimes it doesn't matter, as the issues continue. An old family friend of mine recently came out as being diagnosed with BPD (and other things). She embraces her dX, but isn't in treatment for it. She embraces it as who she is. What works for me is that the communication tools, advice, and support here work for me. They helped reduce conflict. BPD or not, I know my Ex suffers from sometimes uncontrollable emotions which she hates about herself (shame). She often told me this. She has often severe social anxiety (again, I don't need a GAD dX to tell me this) which was sometimes embarrassing.

What works for me is that I found my way here (perhaps 5 years too late, but I'll never know if it would have mattered).

[peiper]

When mine moved back in, I think it was the third time we were walking up the drive. I was telling her that I'd been talking to a T and he believed she was probably BPD.It was like I'd been talking to a box of rocks. She already knew!

[Pingo]

I had wondered the same thing, my exh isn't diagnosed with BPD, this was my own suspicion.  I was so eager to find a label because I thought it would help me make sense out of the insane.  I'm an analytical type person, I am always searching for answers.  After several mths on here, I am still not sure, he definitely exhibits many of the traits and I find myself relating to many peoples' stories here.  He actually fits ALL the criteria for PPD so perhaps this is more likely.  In addition to the possibility of a PD, he has a diagnosed brain injury acquired 11 yrs ago which left him with many problems.  It was really difficult trying to sort out all this during the r/s.  I was always trying to understand why he was behaving the way he did.  He always blamed his brain injury and expected me to have patience of a saint and just accept and excuse the behaviour.

Skip said this on the thread 'is it BPD or me':

Yes, her issues could have been acute and not BPD traits at all - or it could have been a laundry list of other things.  When we encounter high conflict or destructive relationship behaviors it is important for us to know that the problems can be caused by a broad range of things that look a lot a like:

    immaturity,

    short term mental illness (e.g., depression),

    substance induced illness (e.g., alcoholism),

    a mood disorder (e.g., bipolar),

    an anxiety disorder (e.g., PTSD),

    a personality disorder (e.g., BPD, NPD, 8 others),

    a neurodevelopmental disorder (e.g., ADHD, Aspergers), or

    any combination of the above (i.e., co-morbidity).

How often is "any combination of the above?"   In an NIH study of 34,653 people*, of those that had clinical BPD,

    74% had another personalty disorder,

    75% also had a mood disorder, and

    74% also had an anxiety disorder.

Regardless, I find this website very helpful and also the books I've read on BPD.  What I wasn't expecting is the shock I felt once I started to read books on abuse.  Not BPD abuse, just abuse.  I had not realised how abused I was in the r/s.  I was really angry!  But it helped me get real about the hell I lived with.  So then I wondered am I making excuses for his abuse by labeling him BPD?  Like he made excuses b/c of his brain injury? It is really hard to accept that I allowed him to abuse me the way he did.

I don't have any more answers now 4 1/2 mths out.  I have stopped focusing on his label and I'm focused on me now.  The more I focus on me the less it matters what he is.  It is now irrelevant.

[Butterfly44]

Thanks for the great responses to the thread; it's interesting and helpful to hear others' views on the situation. I know there is something something going on and I think I knew all along but my own emotions and feeling sorry for her past and present difficulties (rescuing) kept me in the relationship and trying. I guess I thought I could make a difference but I couldn't. I've literally just found out she's gone back to the person she was with before me (a real kick in the teeth) That person is a complete doormat for her and she knows it so I'm not that surprised that she's gone back. She used to tell me stories of how this person worshipped the ground she walked on and would do absolutely anything for her and she would laugh about it. Whenever I didn't oblige to do anything she asked, this very same person was thrown in my face as being "saint like" and was used at every opportunity to hurt me. I was told all the time how she wished she'd never left them for me because I was nothing like them... .meaning I wouldn't put up with her constant derisory remarks and goading. I'm hurt she's gone back but I know it's not an equal relationship based on true love. It's purely because she's gone back to the easiest option and someone who is so besotted (and always has been) with her and will basically be submissive to her every demand. It makes me feel sick to be honest   

[Butterfly44]

I guess pwBPD really do have to be with someone who doesn't "trigger" them at all then? The more subservient someone is, the less the rages and tantrums are initiated? I know my ex wasn't in love with the person she's gone back to which makes me think that the less real feelings they have for a person, the easier it is for them to deal with their emotions because they're minimal? She also knows this person will never, ever leave her. She said I was her first real love (but then again that could have been a lie) but I did seem to trigger massive emotions in her that she just couldn't cope with.

Is going back to a much more subservient ex a BPD trait too? Or is it another case of recycling with her ex before me until she finds another new, weak target? Or are pwBPD happy just to be in a relationship where no real emotions are involved... .almost a friendship based relationship and not much else? Is this more comfortable for them in general?  

[guy4caligirl]

When mine moved back in, I think it was the third time we were walking up the drive. I was telling her that I'd been talking to a T and he believed she was probably BPD.It was like I'd been talking to a box of rocks. She already knew!

Piper

How would you approach the subject about my ex BPD ,she keeps texting me wanting help , and start throwing on me things like she though about that the other day or so when I mention something about her and she wants to give me ideas ,and so on ,I am on my day six NC hoping she wonders why am not in touch could that help me get her to put back under her grace ?

[Blimblam]

I guess pwBPD really do have to be with someone who doesn't "trigger" them at all then? The more subservient someone is, the less the rages and tantrums are initiated? I know my ex wasn't in love with the person she's gone back to which makes me think that the less real feelings they have for a person, the easier it is for them to deal with their emotions because they're minimal? She also knows this person will never, ever leave her. She said I was her first real love (but then again that could have been a lie) but I did seem to trigger massive emotions in her that she just couldn't cope with.

Is going back to a much more subservient ex a BPD trait too? Or is it another case of recycling with her ex before me until she finds another new, weak target? Or are pwBPD happy just to be in a relationship where no real emotions are involved... .almost a friendship based relationship and not much else? Is this more comfortable for them in general?  

Someone who doesn't trigger them ever is someone who probably doesn't trully love them. Who thinks of them as a replaceable commodity. Sort of how a pwBPD views us once the disorder triggers them into devaluing us.

[Butterfly44]

Hello Blimblam,

So basically you have two people who aren't really in love with each other so don't really trigger anything in each other. An apathetic approach from both sides... .Sounds wonderful   She always said to me that "they" never argued or ever had cross words. Oh and if they ever did, it was always to do with me and somehow my fault; despite having never met this person once.

[Blimblam]

Hello Blimblam,

So basically you have two people who aren't really in love with each other so don't really trigger anything in each other. An apathetic approach from both sides... .Sounds wonderful   She always said to me that "they" never argued or ever had cross words. Oh and if they ever did, it was always to do with me and somehow my fault; despite having never met this person once.

I can't really say for sure. But when you remain in contact with them when they have new attachments or are seeking them. They will complain about you because they think you are pathetic for chasing them when they treated you bad.  They will trash talk you to the new guy and he may or may not have been around long enough to go through the same cycle or he may just be a weasel of a guy who likes to take advantage of women when they are vulnerable. There is a lot of guys like that, it's a ll a game to them they are there to take they don't care who they hurt.

It's not necessarily about two people that can't love.  Love is a loaded expression and can mean a lot f different things.  A pwBPD wants to connect and to love but intimacy triggers the disorder so of they chase after a Person who doesn't view the pwBPD as a human being they never get close enought to trigger the disorder. Or if they do it doesn't hurt so bad because they havnt opened their heart to become vulnerable.

[Blimblam]

You have to remember the game being played.  We tend to view the pwBPD as this master puppet master but in the end the pwBPD always seems to lose. If you take a step back and look at things from the world of sales and marketing viewing things as commodities rather than having intrinsic value it paints a bigger picture of the world we are living in.  That whole success business world game is about winning the game.  People that view it as just a game and disconnect from their cares may be on the other end of the triangle. It's when they actually start to be human and caring that they get hurt.