Real improvement

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi all,

An update

I haven't been here since this summer. At that time my I was on the receiving end of some fierce silent treatment from my uBPDxbf of 1,5 years. We were regularly attending the same dance classes.

Since then lots has happened and lots have changed. When deciding to post an update I wasn't even sure where to post this, but as I am still feeling undecided, I am still on this board.

I ended up assisting the classes and he ended up joining a performance team that I am also a part of. Of course he had to finally start to both greet me and interact with me. At the time it felt slow but looking back I realise it all happened quite quickly. It was like he melted towards me and once he had we met to talk things over.

I have had T and have a different approach but it turned out he had also been in T for 1,5 years initially to help with the breakup from me. He has always had a lot of insight to his issues but now he had reached a whole other level of understanding. He talked specifically about his attachment style, his push pull, and his emotional immaturity and sensitivity. He took all the blame and has apologised, which he has done before so that was not new to me. What was new was his calmness and non-reactiveness, so much less easily triggered. He said he was absolutely stunned as to how he could have ever thought so badly of me. And yes I know, the BPD idealisation but we have been on and off before so I can definitely say there is something different about his appreciation of me this time.

What has really helped is the social circle we now have in common, something we never had before. It also makes me feel more safe. He has seen me around other people and that has helped him form a more balanced view of me, seeing how other people relate to me.

He declared that he wanted to be friends and we have tried to be friends though he talks about the possibility of getting back together. I will not consider it until some conditions are discussed and met but even the friendship itself seems hard for him to cope with obviously because he still has feelings for me. He admits to feeling jealous seeing me dance with other men but won't go any further than that. There's still some push pull and I have told him we need to find a solution to this if we are going to remain friends. He is open to that.

During the very first private conversation we had I asked him why he so adamantly had refused any form of  communication and why he had been so angry for so long. At first he said because I hadn't left him alone, but when I interjected that for 4 months after breaking up I had not tried to contact him, he said that he had just wanted to be loved for who he is, that he had felt abandoned. I asked what he had wanted for me to have done then when he wanted two conflicting things at the same time. He had no answer. Since then we have never again spoken about the silent treatment. I believe he no longer has any idea why.

He feels T helped him deal with a lot of anger and I see that. He feels he was helped to understand why he feels the way he feels but still lacks a lot of the tools. Reconnecting with me has brought up a lot of stuff that hadn't been dealt with and he has now booked an appointment with a T who specialises in  attachment disorders.

I feel happy for him and in all the 6 years I have known him I have never had this experience of him. I can talk to him as I do to other people. I no longer have to tiptoe around him.

[mitti]

Hi all,

An update

I haven't been here since this summer. At that time my I was on the receiving end of some fierce silent treatment from my uBPDxbf of 1,5 years. We were regularly attending the same dance classes.

Since then lots has happened and lots have changed. When deciding to post an update I wasn't even sure where to post this, but as I am still feeling undecided, I am still on this board.

I ended up assisting the classes and he ended up joining a performance team that I am also a part of. Of course he had to finally start to both greet me and interact with me. At the time it felt slow but looking back I realise it all happened quite quickly. It was like he melted towards me and once he had we met to talk things over.

I have had T and have a different approach but it turned out he had also been in T for 1,5 years initially to help with the breakup from me. He has always had a lot of insight to his issues but now he had reached a whole other level of understanding. He talked specifically about his attachment style, his push pull, and his emotional immaturity and sensitivity. He took all the blame and has apologised, which he has done before so that was not new to me. What was new was his calmness and non-reactiveness, so much less easily triggered. He said he was absolutely stunned as to how he could have ever thought so badly of me. And yes I know, the BPD idealisation but we have been on and off before so I can definitely say there is something different about his appreciation of me this time.

What has really helped is the social circle we now have in common, something we never had before. It also makes me feel more safe. He has seen me around other people and that has helped him form a more balanced view of me, seeing how other people relate to me.

He declared that he wanted to be friends and we have tried to be friends though he talks about the possibility of getting back together. I will not consider it until some conditions are discussed and met but even the friendship itself seems hard for him to cope with obviously because he still has feelings for me. He admits to feeling jealous seeing me dance with other men but won't go any further than that. There's still some push pull and I have told him we need to find a solution to this if we are going to remain friends. He is open to that.

During the very first private conversation we had I asked him why he so adamantly had refused any form of  communication and why he had been so angry for so long. At first he said because I hadn't left him alone, but when I interjected that for 4 months after breaking up I had not tried to contact him, he said that he had just wanted to be loved for who he is, that he had felt abandoned. I asked what he had wanted for me to have done then when he wanted two conflicting things at the same time. He had no answer. Since then we have never again spoken about the silent treatment. I believe he no longer has any idea why.

He feels T helped him deal with a lot of anger and I see that. He feels he was helped to understand why he feels the way he feels but still lacks a lot of the tools. Reconnecting with me has brought up a lot of stuff that hadn't been dealt with and he has now booked an appointment with a T who specialises in  attachment disorders.

I feel happy for him and in all the 6 years I have known him I have never had this experience of him. I can talk to him as I do to other people. I no longer have to tiptoe around him.

[ReluctantSurvivor]

Thank you for sharing.  It is heart warming to hear that a pwBPD has grown to get past their disorder in any capacity. 

[Pou]

Hi all,

An update

I haven't been here since this summer. At that time my I was on the receiving end of some fierce silent treatment from my uBPDxbf of 1,5 years. We were regularly attending the same dance classes.

Since then lots has happened and lots have changed. When deciding to post an update I wasn't even sure where to post this, but as I am still feeling undecided, I am still on this board.

I ended up assisting the classes and he ended up joining a performance team that I am also a part of. Of course he had to finally start to both greet me and interact with me. At the time it felt slow but looking back I realise it all happened quite quickly. It was like he melted towards me and once he had we met to talk things over.

I have had T and have a different approach but it turned out he had also been in T for 1,5 years initially to help with the breakup from me. He has always had a lot of insight to his issues but now he had reached a whole other level of understanding. He talked specifically about his attachment style, his push pull, and his emotional immaturity and sensitivity. He took all the blame and has apologised, which he has done before so that was not new to me. What was new was his calmness and non-reactiveness, so much less easily triggered. He said he was absolutely stunned as to how he could have ever thought so badly of me. And yes I know, the BPD idealisation but we have been on and off before so I can definitely say there is something different about his appreciation of me this time.

What has really helped is the social circle we now have in common, something we never had before. It also makes me feel more safe. He has seen me around other people and that has helped him form a more balanced view of me, seeing how other people relate to me.

He declared that he wanted to be friends and we have tried to be friends though he talks about the possibility of getting back together. I will not consider it until some conditions are discussed and met but even the friendship itself seems hard for him to cope with obviously because he still has feelings for me. He admits to feeling jealous seeing me dance with other men but won't go any further than that. There's still some push pull and I have told him we need to find a solution to this if we are going to remain friends. He is open to that.

During the very first private conversation we had I asked him why he so adamantly had refused any form of  communication and why he had been so angry for so long. At first he said because I hadn't left him alone, but when I interjected that for 4 months after breaking up I had not tried to contact him, he said that he had just wanted to be loved for who he is, that he had felt abandoned. I asked what he had wanted for me to have done then when he wanted two conflicting things at the same time. He had no answer. Since then we have never again spoken about the silent treatment. I believe he no longer has any idea why.

He feels T helped him deal with a lot of anger and I see that. He feels he was helped to understand why he feels the way he feels but still lacks a lot of the tools. Reconnecting with me has brought up a lot of stuff that hadn't been dealt with and he has now booked an appointment with a T who specialises in  attachment disorders.

I feel happy for him and in all the 6 years I have known him I have never had this experience of him. I can talk to him as I do to other people. I no longer have to tiptoe around him.

sounds great! thank you for sharing.  But be honest with you, I think PD is a character trait and I don't think therapy can help… I know that many will disagree with me, but I really believe it.  I am a scientist and being through a few PDs with different type of relationships… I come to the conclusion that it is a character flaw and therefore no therapy can cure it.  So my view is that your bf may in the short term say exactly what he knows that everyone else expects him to say and act … but once he falls back into that comfort and charms you back into his life, things will change.  This is just my two cents … and if you recall the fable about a scorpion and a frog... that is pretty much how I feel about the PDs.  I wish you well and don't let my view determine how you engage in your relationship... just want to share it so you got all angles covered.

[Perdita]

It is nice to hear that he is working so hard on himself.  I think this will need to be a life long process and I sure hope that he keeps it up.  BTW, how old is he? 

[KateCat]

Mitti, this says so much about you and the maturity you've achieved. (Because of all your hard and honest self-work, you may not even need any of the natural warnings people will give you that he may not be capable of great change himself.)

Nice work!

[mitti]

Thank you ReluctantSurvivor, Pou, Perdita and KateCat. I appreciate your responses and feedback.

Yes, he has made a lot of progress. I always used to think he was better equipped than a lot of pwBPDs on these boards, simply because he was - most of the time - open to actually having a PD such as BPD. Nowadays we don't even mention BPD, as it feels pointless. We talk about his attachment disorder and he understands how it works and what the triggers are. He also realises that he still has a way to go. Whether it will be a lifelong process or not I am not sure. I have spoken to a lot of professionals who say that it is absolutely possible to heal and be 'cured' from BPD so long as the person is willing to accept there even is something that needs dealing with to begin with. That gives me hope for him. What I don't know is if I will be there with him.

I think PD is a character trait and I don't think therapy can help… I know that many will disagree with me, but I really believe it.  I am a scientist and being through a few PDs with different type of relationships… I come to the conclusion that it is a character flaw and therefore no therapy can cure it.  So my view is that your bf may in the short term say exactly what he knows that everyone else expects him to say and act … but once he falls back into that comfort and charms you back into his life, things will change.  This is just my two cents … and if you recall the fable about a scorpion and a frog... that is pretty much how I feel about the PDs.

Hi Pou,

Thanks for your input. From what I've read the generally accepted idea used to be that BPD was incurable but that is no longer the case and there is a lot of new research into what BPD even is and underlying causes and triggers etc. I feel reluctant to label it a character flaw. The way I see it we have all developed some 'faulty programming' and are therefore all of us somewhat emotionally sensitive in one area or another. We all have baggage that affects us. There is no sharp divide between those of us with a PD and those without, we are all 'sick' by degrees. I know that a lot of people have experiences of that sort of manipulation that you describe. I feel sure that he really is trying to do things differently but time will tell. He is not really trying to win me back, we are just trying to be friends for now. If and when he is, I will have to find some way forward to minimize the risk of falling back into old patterns, for him and me both.

It is nice to hear that he is working so hard on himself.  I think this will need to be a life long process and I sure hope that he keeps it up.  BTW, how old is he?  

He is 50 years old. He seems very dedicated for now. He realizes that 1,5 years was not enough. But it was a start and now he feels he needs a T who actually specializes in attachment disorders. That in itself I find very promising and he has not asked me to help him either but organized it himself. He has booked it himself and he has only told me about his appointments.

Because of all your hard and honest self-work, you may not even need any of the natural warnings people will give you that he may not be capable of great change himself

Thank you KateCat. I really do hope so. For now, the change that I have seen in him so far, feels amazing. I was never able to talk to him the way I can for the most part now. There is still some push and pull. That was the one side to his disordered behaviour that I always found the hardest to deal with. It would leave me with debilitating anxiety. These days I manage a lot better and the ups and downs are nowhere near as extreme and he communicates with me through them and actually tells me 'not to worry, he will come back' and he does. We will see.

[Pou]

Thank you ReluctantSurvivor, Pou, Perdita and KateCat. I appreciate your responses and feedback.

Hi Pou,

Thanks for your input. From what I've read the generally accepted idea used to be that BPD was incurable but that is no longer the case and there is a lot of new research into what BPD even is and underlying causes and triggers etc. I feel reluctant to label it a character flaw. The way I see it we have all developed some 'faulty programming' and are therefore all of us somewhat emotionally sensitive in one area or another. We all have baggage that affects us. There is no sharp divide between those of us with a PD and those without, we are all 'sick' by degrees. I know that a lot of people have experiences of that sort of manipulation that you describe. I feel sure that he really is trying to do things differently but time will tell. He is not really trying to win me back, we are just trying to be friends for now. If and when he is, I will have to find some way forward to minimize the risk of falling back into old patterns, for him and me both.

Mitti, I wish you luck.  I suppose there are different severities of PD and not everyone falls into the case of having an absolute character flaw.  My view is that if a PD is stuck to see no wrong with his or her behaviors … however they are able to see that society won't accept them unless they act certain way … just to get what they want to get to.  Then anyone gets close to them can be exposed to such danger.  Again, I wish you luck and he is lucky to have you not giving up on him … but at the sometime do look out for yourself (as you seem to have it all together). 

[ziniztar]

Hi Mitti,

I understand what you're saying...

dBPDxbf was in therapy for 2 years.

Things got harder and harder.

A few weeks ago he had to quit therapy because he was stuck.

I decided to leave him last week because this really wasn't good enough for me, anymore.

I can only wait and see how this year will play out for him, and me.

I know me, I know I stay attached for a long time without having to see someone.

I know that if he does some of the work he has to, I'd be willing to give him another chance... but things really have to change and it won't change overnight.

It's good to read so much has changed for you guys.

PS: winning you back is not the way forward, even though it is very validating. He tried to win me back after he cheated and did everything to not loose me. Even though it felt like I was entitled to some form of make-up behavior, it wasn't healthy. It didn't cure the underlying issue of the avoidant attachment disorder that hurts me the most. I think becoming friends is a good way forward. Building the attachment slowly, without the expectation that belongs to a r/s.

I can only wait and see how things progress when he's experiencing that I left him for now, but still want him in my life. He can use it in a good way if he wants to. He can also choose to replace me rapidly. I'll find the answer to the question whether I want to give it a go or not, soon enough in those behaviours... .

[Perdita]

He is 50 years old. He seems very dedicated for now. He realizes that 1,5 years was not enough. But it was a start and now he feels he needs a T who actually specializes in attachment disorders. That in itself I find very promising and he has not asked me to help him either but organized it himself. He has booked it himself and he has only told me about his appointments.

That's very encouraging that he is willing to change at that age.  Most people are already set in their 30s and stubborn about change.  I hope he continues with this journey of self-discovery.  Best of luck to you both.

[mitti]

Mitti, I wish you luck.  I suppose there are different severities of PD and not everyone falls into the case of having an absolute character flaw.  My view is that if a PD is stuck to see no wrong with his or her behaviors … however they are able to see that society won't accept them unless they act certain way … just to get what they want to get to.  Then anyone gets close to them can be exposed to such danger.  Again, I wish you luck and he is lucky to have you not giving up on him … but at the sometime do look out for yourself (as you seem to have it all together). 

Thank you Pou,

Yes, I agree. And I think comorbidity is very common and plus a diagnosis is too categorical and too rigid to ever truly be able describe a PD, of course it has to be in order to see the patterns. It seems, as you say, from reading posts on these boards, that a lot of people with a PD are not willing to see anything wrong with their behaviours and unless they do, I agree, T won't do a lot of good.

I also think he is very lucky to have me  and at least for now he thinks so also.

[mitti]

Hi Mitti,

I understand what you're saying...

dBPDxbf was in therapy for 2 years.

Things got harder and harder.

A few weeks ago he had to quit therapy because he was stuck.

I decided to leave him last week because this really wasn't good enough for me, anymore.

I can only wait and see how this year will play out for him, and me.

I know me, I know I stay attached for a long time without having to see someone.

I know that if he does some of the work he has to, I'd be willing to give him another chance... but things really have to change and it won't change overnight.

It's good to read so much has changed for you guys.

PS: winning you back is not the way forward, even though it is very validating. He tried to win me back after he cheated and did everything to not loose me. Even though it felt like I was entitled to some form of make-up behavior, it wasn't healthy. It didn't cure the underlying issue of the avoidant attachment disorder that hurts me the most. I think becoming friends is a good way forward. Building the attachment slowly, without the expectation that belongs to a r/s.

I can only wait and see how things progress when he's experiencing that I left him for now, but still want him in my life. He can use it in a good way if he wants to. He can also choose to replace me rapidly. I'll find the answer to the question whether I want to give it a go or not, soon enough in those behaviours... .

Hi ziniztar,

So you felt that while your xbf was in T things got harder? What kind of T was it?

I know what it feels like to stay attached with little reward. I have found it very difficult to detach emotionally from my xbf this time apart though I did everything I was 'supposed' to to get that done - new interests, new hobbies, dating, new friends, travel etc. I found it depressing it should feel so hard. If we can't make it this time, I have decided to leave the country. Seems drastic but I could never go through this 1 year apart again and then the extra 6 months of silent treatment.

I see what you mean about winning somebody back. I had another ex many years ago that tried that after cheating. Between my uBPDxbf and me there has never been any cheating so that makes it easier. I would actually like to be won back, I mean for him to make a real effort. He has before and it felt good. I like to see some physical evidence of the value I hold to him - that 'actions-speak-louder-than-words' thing you know

[mitti]

That's very encouraging that he is willing to change at that age.  Most people are already set in their 30s and stubborn about change.  I hope he continues with this journey of self-discovery.  Best of luck to you both.

I know, it's kind of crazy to hear him talk now, for him also. He says he feels kind of amazed that he would realize at 50 that he has been so emotionally immature his whole life and to start to become ready for a real r/s at 50.

Thank you

[Pou]

Mitti, I wish you luck.  I suppose there are different severities of PD and not everyone falls into the case of having an absolute character flaw.  My view is that if a PD is stuck to see no wrong with his or her behaviors … however they are able to see that society won't accept them unless they act certain way … just to get what they want to get to.  Then anyone gets close to them can be exposed to such danger.  Again, I wish you luck and he is lucky to have you not giving up on him … but at the sometime do look out for yourself (as you seem to have it all together). 

Thank you Pou,

Yes, I agree. And I think comorbidity is very common and plus a diagnosis is too categorical and too rigid to ever truly be able describe a PD, of course it has to be in order to see the patterns. It seems, as you say, from reading posts on these boards, that a lot of people with a PD are not willing to see anything wrong with their behaviours and unless they do, I agree, T won't do a lot of good.

I also think he is very lucky to have me  and at least for now he thinks so also.

Mitti, in my opinion, the reason why making dealing a PD individual is so difficult is that they can turn on the charm and say and do whatever they will just to get to their goal... .  It is also clear that these PDs are doing that for the hunt and not because they experience the genuine emotions that you and I can and seeing that as an asset in building a long term relationship.  PD charms the target in and then tears it down ... .and then builds it up and then tears it down ... .at the point when they feel confident that the NONs won't leave, they become abusive ... .and that is the phase becomes unbearable.  why do PDs do it?  i don't know... .the best way I can understand it is simply from the fable of scorpion and a frog... .as frog try to understand why scorpion would sting him in the middle of crossing the river together, which leading to dooming both of them ... .mr. scorpion says to the frog "... .I can't help it, because I am a scorpion.".   That is where the character flaw sets in and predominates everything else.  People with beautiful heart deserve love, deserve companionship and seek for them ... .however, our naive view in believing world is filled with the like-minded people are also our flaw in stepping into traps... .sometimes again and again ... .I am an old dog and this would be my last parade with a PD.  I have to slug through this one ... .got three beautiful kids and waking up everyday hoping the best ... .going to sleep disappointed everyday.  I wish you luck and please don't get to the point where you have kids together and then discover that you fell for the "charm"... .  i think it is true that 99% of people on this board want their PD relationship to work out ... but sometimes, getting to acknowledging that it is not possible ... may be the best transformation.  I wish you well and keep engaging your bf, but keep your eye open while your heart is also open ... .NONs do not deserve the abuse that PDs put out ... .best luck to you and I sincerely hope that your bf is on the lighter end of PD spectrum. 

[mitti]

Thank you Pou for your encouragement,

From what it seems my ex is on a lighter end in some respects. He has been very dependable and consistent in our contact since we got back to talking in August. He is still a little back and forth with some decisions and definitely when it comes to what he wants between us. What is good is that he is totally committed to T and has gone out of his way to find a T that specializes in attachment disorders which he fully accepts is his core issue. For me the biggest relief is that I can talk to him as I would any normal person. I no longer have to consider every word, sentence construction, tone of voice, before speaking and I can joke freely. This is good bc it means I can be myself, great relief.