Finding my own way

[Grey Kitty]

I've posted a lot about what's going on with my wife lately. I've worried and fretted a lot about what to do, and some about how she will react to what I do. I'm taking a break in this thread.

I'm remembering where I was a few years back. I had been abused verbally and emotionally. It was creeping up to physical abuse. I was torturing myself by trying to wrap my mind into the twisted places my wife was projecting onto me. And I hit my limit.

I stopped accepting abuse. Simple boundary enforcement.

I had realized that I loved my wife and always would. And that I was letting her control me and twist me in ways that would break me if I kept on going that way.

That I wasn't going to stay in an abusive relationship. I found real freedom when I let go of the conflict, and accepted that I was going to stop the abuse, and my wife would either accept the new relationship, or reject it. I would be OK either way.

This is "ancient history" in a way. I'm describing it because the resolve I found at that time is important. I'm on the verge of finding similar resolve in the next phase of my own growth:



I'm back looking at myself. (even re-read my diary from those years. That was tough!) I didn't fall back to accepting abuse. (Whew!)

I started doing something else back then--I started finding things in my life that were important to me, but did not belong to my wife. Over the last couple years, I did let most of those things fall away. (A big thank-you to this community for existing--It is one thing I've stayed connected to!)

I'm seeing this as part of a pattern running through as much of my life as I can remember.

I don't trust myself to make my own choices. I go and seek external validation for things I want to do. Not always from my wife. Often I decide by not deciding--I don't choose to do anything, and I end up doing what people around me choose.

I also distract myself and check out to avoid uncomfortable feelings. (Hmmm... .perhaps these feelings come up when I'm not making my own choices?  ) I would get lost in books as a kid, pretty much as soon as I was old enough to read non-picture-books. My social life at school was err... .unsatisfying. I didn't do much to improve it; Instead I checked out so I didn't have to experience it.

As I hit my teenage years, I discovered computers (Early '80s, not today's computers!). Programming computers. Playing computer games. Learned about building/fixing computers. Engaged in and even created an online community. Some of this was doing things that I valued and am very glad I did. Nearly all of it was enjoyable. And much of it worked to keep me from experiencing uncomfortable things in other parts of my life.

I was doing better in college. I was ready to come out of my shell socially and find people I liked and things I wanted to do with them. I met my now wife. We did the cocooning thing, and I pulled back from making my own choices.

Twenty years went by. I see that my first coping technique is still to check out from what I'm feeling. It isn't an one to change. When I stick around to engage with my feelings, the first ones I find are NOT pleasant ones.

I'm working on staying engaged. Letting myself take a break when I need it, but trying to stay engaged. I'm starting to find joyful feelings as well as sad, hurt, or angry ones.

Making my own choices is hard. I'm afraid of making wrong ones. I'm learning that I sometimes need to make a choice, and allow it to be wrong. And choose to fix things later if I need to.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Jessica84]

That is a wonderful description of your journey. Not to over-validate you  but you are very good at getting to the core of your own issues, and in doing so, helping people with theirs in this community. I've learned a lot reading your comments. We're all a bit of a mess here - it's so hard to separate our own issues from our loved ones since theirs often pose an "immediate" crisis, leaving ours on the backburner. Thanks for sharing your coping methods!

[Grey Kitty]

I just felt that it was as important as my much more active threads about the crap I'm currently dealing with regarding my wife... .and these issues would get lost there. That thread is still active too.

Jessica84, I'm glad that sharing helped you

And I have to add one thing... .which detracts from your image of me as this wonderful fully enlightened member here   

One other coping mechanism I have is to be overly analytical and thinking about things... .as a way to avoid sitting with difficult feelings.

[Jessica84]

One other coping mechanism I have is to be overly analytical and thinking about things... .as a way to avoid sitting with difficult feelings.

Not sure that is a coping mechanism. Logical minds like logical solutions. Nothing wrong with that. I do this too, to an extent. Knowing what you feel is a good thing. It can be happy, sad, confused. Let your heart speak to you. Look at this way, it's giving you important data. Don't act on the feelings right away, but learn from them. This is good input.

But when it is time for output and decisions need to be made, thinking is also a good thing. It's not a coping mechanism, it's a problem solver. Let the mind process the data your heart has given you.

There is one trap though. I've heard it called "paralysis by analysis". Ever analyze something so long you can't make a decision? That's your mind going into overdrive. Sometimes it could be your feelings surfacing back up to give you more input. I've done it many times. Carefully crafting each word, trying to predict with certain accuracy the outcome of each scenario, positioning myself to respond to whichever one occurs, cautiously calculating it all to death... .until I get so exhausted about the endless variables, possibilities, consequences and worrying about making the wrong decision that I end up doing... .nothing!

[jedimaster]

Wow.  Thanks so MUCH for posting!  When I first found this site I found a scary number of people who were just like my wife.  Rather comforting to find someone a lot like me, right down to the geeky hobbies and limited HS social life.  And the tendency to over-analyze and be too logical.  Gives me hope if you can do this, I can too.  Qapla!  Or may the Force be with you, depending on which galaxy you prefer (I like both!)

[Jessica84]

This may be off-topic, but it's got me thinking... .men all over this forum keep beating themselves up for being "too analytical". Women on the forum tend to blame themselves too, for being "too hysterical" and "overreacting" when their BPD male starts raging.

Let's be fair. We women are not an easy gender to understand as it is. Men are equally puzzling to us. We process and perceive things so differently. Add an emotional disorder to the equation, and the confusion and frustration is amplified.

Women are said to be more "emotional" and men more "logical". I think that is largely true and comes from early childhood and different gender expectations imposed on us. Girls are taught from a very early age that it's more acceptable to SHOW our emotions, so we learned to process them externally. If my brother skinned his knee and started howling and crying for our mother, he was told to "man up" even when he was a toddler! He learned early on it was NOT acceptable to show his emotions, so he started processing his feelings internally, which likely activated the logical side of his brain. If I did the same and started crying at the same age for the same reason, I was treated much more gently. I was never told to "woman up"! I was more free to express mine than my brother was, so I relied more on my emotional side. These behaviors and learned responses got reinforced in this way. We each had the same feelings, but the way we processed them was completely opposite. Of course, our brains may also be wired differently, but that's another story!

So to the men, don't be so hard on yourselves for being too over-thinking or analytical. Or for not being in touch enough with your emotions or feelings. You probably weren't allowed to display them so you learned to control them and used rationale to do so. It may not come as natural to you as adults, same as processing feelings your way isn't quite natural for us women.

Do I get a feeling, stop to identify it first, figure out what it wants me to do, then act on it? Not usually! But I'm learning.

Do you get a feeling and then react instantly? Or do you "check out" at first to think about how to properly express what it is you're feeling?

The fact that you are trying at all is an act of love in itself. You're doing your best and constantly trying to do better. We can't fix BPD, but not making things worse may mean doing something a bit unnatural for both genders dealing with a pwBPD. It's not easy. Here I am learning to be more rational in my responses (thinking first), and the men are learning to be more empathetic in theirs (feeling first). No wonder we feel off balance with all this! Be gentle with yourselves. 

[Grey Kitty]

Lucky me! This is my thread and I get to say what is on topic and what is off topic    And it was my original topic--making my own choices. Forum policy supports this, although probably more gently.

Jessica84, your last post got me thinking about my FOO's specific patterns. 

I spoke with my mother (in her '70s) for the first time after she had spent a month caregiving/caretaking my grandmother (her mother).

My grandmother's apartment isn't comfortable for my mom--the TV is up loud enough that she wears earplugs. My mom doesn't do well in heat, and the temperature is at 85 degrees for my grandmother. Her health is declining, and she's slowing down, gave up driving, but she's very independant. Still does her own cooking and cleaning, and laundry. My grandmother has also been pretty depressed the last couple decades since her husband died, and has become very isolated... .mostly because her family and social circle has almost entirely died.

To this day, she will not let my mother wash dishes, although she will let my mother dry dishes. And my mother complained about this (I've heard it before!) One time this trip, my mom walked across the street to the library and the grocery store for an hour and a half. She did tell my grandmother she was doing this ahead, but my grandmother either didn't quite hear, didn't quite comprehend, or forgot. So my grandmother couldn't find her... .went out and saw that the rental car was still there... .and started calling people worried that something had happened to my mom. Of course nobody knew anything. (My mom might not have taken her cell phone with her, but my grandmother probably wouldn't have called it) My mom came back on schedule, and eventually all the panic was smoothed away.

My mom's decision after this was that she would never walk out to do two errands at the same time for the rest of the visit.

I'm struck by how controlling my grandmother is. And also how little ability she has to understand that other people have different wants, needs, and desires than she does. A lack of empathy. (Something I could illustrate with other stories... .)

I'm struck with how little my mother does to stand up for herself in the face of this.

My mother just admitted to me that her mental health is stressed by a month of this. And that she knows she couldn't take more of it. (She was very grateful that my grandmother was unwilling to move into their house... .she realized that she would be driven nuts by the stress!) And when she does stubbornly stand up for herself, she puts herself into a box where she CAN'T do it. She doesn't say she won't do it.

She lives in a place w/o snow. My grandmother lives in a place with snow. Many years back, my mom lost control of her car in snowy conditions. She refuses to drive in snow. Consequently, she CAN'T visit my grandmother after October or before March. (And now my grandmother wants her to come back for a medical appointment... .and figured she would stay for a month again.)

Yes, this logic is WACKED! No, I don't try to debate it with her. I've done a little problem solving, showing her ideas that might be outside her "box."



My father is (apparently) an incredibly highly functioning alcoholic. He drinks a lot of beer spread out over the evening Pretty much every evening. I've seen him visibly drunk maybe one or two times. I’ve never seen him be violent, and don’t see personality changes when he drinks. This never interfered with his career. He is smart, socially awkward, kind and fairly quiet. I have one clear memory of him getting angry, and it was during a long car drive when I and my sister were squabbling in the back seat.

If my father opens his mouth to say anything, my mother will immediately tell him how wrong he is, with a awful scornful tone of voice. 99% of the time he then agrees that she is right, and listens while she invalidates him a couple more times. (Where is that head-banging smiley? Yes, my mother also complains that my father doesn't talk much, and apparently has no clue that she has contributed to it a lot.)

I suspect this has been going on my entire life, but I don’t remember it growing up. I’m pretty sure it got worse, but I could also have been unaware of it as a kid. Now it is so bad that listening to it makes me not want to spend much time with them. (I enjoy the company of either one of them apart much more.)

My mother has never aimed this at anyone except my father that I recall. Definitely never at me.



Back to MEEEEEEEE! That's my topic here... .and please keep your comments around me--I don't want to get distracted by sympathy or advice on relating with my FOO.


What model of how to live did I see?

I saw conflicts ignored, left simmering in the background, not resolved for years... .if ever.

I saw my dad check out to protect himself. By socially withdrawing. Self-medicating with alcohol... .in a way that didn't destroy his body or his life, unlike lower-functioning alcoholics. I saw him doing a few things he liked or cared about, but not looking very happy or fulfilled overall.

I saw my mom being abusive (verbal/emotional) and controlling toward my dad. He refused to budge on some things that really mattered. He tried to agree with her on small stuff... .and just got more abuse, rather than relief over it.

I saw my mom use arbitrary inflexible fearful refusals to do things as her only tool for standing up for herself.

I didn't see either of them admitting to having emotional needs which were not being met.

I saw big decisions that they had to make in life festering at a stalemate with no action for years.


I guess I shouldn't be surprised that I have to work really hard to access my feelings, or to make my own choices to live a life that matters for myself!

[Cat21]

Lucky me! This is my thread and I get to say what is on topic and what is off topic    And it was my original topic--making my own choices. Forum policy supports this, although probably more gently.

What model of how to live did I see?

I saw conflicts ignored, left simmering in the background, not resolved for years... .if ever.

I saw my dad check out to protect himself. By socially withdrawing.

I saw my mom being abusive (verbal/emotional) and controlling toward my dad.

I saw my mom use arbitrary inflexible fearful refusals to do things as her only tool for standing up for herself.

I didn't see either of them admitting to having emotional needs which were not being met.

I saw big decisions that they had to make in life festering at a stalemate with no action for years.


I guess I shouldn't be surprised that I have to work really hard to access my feelings, or to make my own choices to live a life that matters for myself!

Wow, grey kitty. I felt like you could be describing my parents. Although my dad isn't an alcoholic, he is clinically depressed and has been on a cocktail of antidepressants for 40 years. I adore my parents and have a close relationship with them, but my mom, too, has always been the controller. It's just been recently, with my T, that I've discovered how growing up with certain behaviors modeled for me has shaped the way I deal (or don't deal) with things. I'm glad I read this today; I have a T appointment in a few hours and we are going to talk about these very things!

Thanks for being so candid and sharing.

[Hope26]

Wow, thanks from me too, Grey Kitty, for a most interesting thread.  We are often so overwhelmed with what we're going through moment-to-moment that we don't stop to think about our own issues and responsibilities for being drawn into these relationships.  What you said about having observed controlling behavior that somebody in your FOO accepted as normal, in your case your parents' dynamic, particularly rang a bell with me.  And the lack of discussion or resolution of issues.  I saw my dad and mom with that same dynamic; in their case he was the controlling one and she was more or less the enabler.  My youngest sister, who by the time she grew up experienced a different family dynamic, once asked me why I put up with such controlling behavior in my spouse.  I had not even realized I was doing so.  It is still somewhat baffling to me that we are drawn into these situations long before we become consciously aware of what we are getting into, but history definitely seems to repeat itself.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm glad to hear that others have had similar issues with their parents.

I feel really weird about my r/s with them sometimes.

It is very good at the surface level of actions and logistics, etc. I like them. They like me.

I'm not open with them about the intimate details or existential questions in my life. I'm coming to trust my own judgment on this--I believe there is a very good reason I don't feel safe sharing these things.

I have had a complicated infidelity-ish crisis with my wife during 2009-2010. It didn't really end until 2011, when I found a lover and my wife found one. (we both consented these relationships) In the first six months of 2013 I finished a slow-motion long-distance breakup with my lover. My wife stayed involved with hers until he died fall 2013. I've never shared any of this with them. I'm not sure if my marriage will survive, and they don't even know there is any issue!

In addition, before this stuff started, my wife and I started addressing that she was emotionally and verbally abusive to me. Never said a word to my parents on that either.

I can offer some support to my parents on deeper emotional issues they may be dealing with, at least. I don't feel safe asking for the same from them.

[ziniztar]

GK, great topic

My father's way of asking me how I'm doing after the break-up:

"So... how are you handling the situation now, without a car?"

(I was sharing a car with dBPDxbf). It's all he asked.

My step mom's way of responding to me when extremely sad on the phone:

"Yeah... yeah... .it's something."

I get it. I love my parents to some degree. But emotional available? Nu-uh.

It makes my r/s with them icky, too, as I feel safe and at home (like old days), mainly about logistics, stuff, career, accomplishments.

But when it's about feelings or psychology, I feel a mixture of irritation, anger, hurt, shame. I can tell them all I learnt about patterns, partner choices, attachment theories and all... but all they can say is "It seems like you've got bad luck. You just need to run into a normal type of guy." Is there an emoticon showing a middle finger, too, somewhere? I'd like to insert that one here.  

GK, keep up the good inquiry work .

[Grey Kitty]

I did tell my parents that my wife and I are currently set to split. And that she was cheating on me with a guy last month.

I got good logistical support They have money if I get in a temporary bind in a dispute over joint assets... .and are storing many belongings, mine, hers, and joint. I asked them to not let her take things without hearing from me first.

It is a start on being more genuine with my parents, at least. I got a little emotional support. Still didn't share much of what I'm really feeling with them. My mom is going to mail me cookies today or tomorrow She'd told me she intended to do so earlier... .but has been busy... .not a big surprise. Still feels very loving.

The other issues I'm dealing with here may need to wait a while. With my marriage in a death spiral, I'm not going to have a lot of time for this work for a little bit.

[Grey Kitty]

Today's lesson, delivered by life to Grey Kitty:

When I'm feeling hurt or feeling loss, I would normally kinda hold it together in public. Until some person offers me one little bit of genuine kindness. Then I burst into tears.

The first time I noticed this was when I was laid off from a job 17 years ago. "You are paid through the end of the day, but we'll understand if you leave now." Needless to say, it was a shock. As I was going around and saying goodbye, it was the caring and empathy from coworkers did me in.

The first time I had it explained to me was by a meditation teacher, a decade later, who said that you cannot open up only to good feelings and stay closed off to bad ones at the same time. You can only open up or close down. What happens is that I opened up to engage with the kindness... .and the hurt is right there waiting when I did.

In my normal solo life, I don't cook much, and usually cook pretty simple stuff. I'll normally cook something more semi-elaborate once or twice a week... .and eat a lot of granola bars and peanut butter. Given the level of drama this month, I'm doing a bit less real cooking than I normally would have. I do like cooking things like eggs and potato hash in a cast iron skillet. Last week I found this yummy sounding article. So I spent about an hour preparing and cooking it for myself, complete with fried eggs. Dirtied lots of pans. Lots of effort into it. Actually put it on a plate and carried it over to the table.

My next action somehow just happend without any real thought on my part. I put my hands together and momentarily bowed to the plate of food in appreciation. (Namaste) It was something my wife and I would do when one of us had cooked food for us to share. Then I burst into tears. Because I had just put all that effort out simply as a kindness to myself.

This is the first time I've noticed this feeling from my own kindness to myself. 

Being this open is hard. And so worth it. I sure don't want to go back to checking out so much. Today I'm less worried about that than I was.

[waverider]

Theres a whole lot of Avoidant Personality Disorder stuff going on there, being covered up by trying to normalize it with a veneer of functionality.

This is a good topic and I am sure we see it in our backgrounds as well as that of out partners. maybe that is a factor that cements the initial bonding.

I still struggle with avoidance sometimes, though I see it for what it is and have to deliberately force myself past it, but as a default behavior it is still there.

Your example of cooking is a good one. putting no effort into cooking just for yourself is a good indicator of someone who feels they are not worth it.

[Grey Kitty]

waverider, do you have any suggestions as a starting place to address Avoidant Personality Disorder stuff? I'm not familiar with it.

[waverider]

waverider, do you have any suggestions as a starting place to address Avoidant Personality Disorder stuff? I'm not familiar with it.

Not really an expert on that one myself, it just rings a bell with me about how i was always trying to stay invisible and burying myself in side issues to stop me confronting important stuff. Creates a stunted personality growth.

TBH I think working through all the BPD issues gives you that self confidence and belief that not only exposes you to these traits in yourself but also how to deal with them. A lot of it is learned behavior I believe.

I think I might go study that one myself some more. Just to see where I came from. I used to get paralysed with fear of saying something stupid, and so say nothing. Now I say stupid things all the time and dont care, the result is I say too much ... and hey the sky doesn't fall in when you do.

Most of what we learn here applies across many of the personality disorders.

[Grey Kitty]

waverider, do you have any suggestions as a starting place to address Avoidant Personality Disorder stuff? I'm not familiar with it.

Not really an expert on that one myself, it just rings a bell with me about how i was always trying to stay invisible and burying myself in side issues to stop me confronting important stuff. Creates a stunted personality growth.

Yup. Been doin' that one. Thanks!

I had a fun, brief hopeful moment asking you for a magic bullet I could use to instantly work through all my problems... . 

For both of us, back to the HARD job of good mental health.

After my last post, I meditated this morning. I'd let my practice lapse quite a while ago. I'm looking forward to the fruits I know will come from resuming it.

[ziniztar]

2 things

1) When it comes to attachment issues, I've started examining when I adjust my behaviour. I've been alone for allmost 5 years so was able to set a baseline of who I am individually. I avoid painful, negative feelings in order to stay attached. Why the hell was my 1st reaction to dBPDxbf's cheating "oh, let's see how we can work this out". It also helps to compare how you would react to someone you're not or more healthy attached to. Would your reaction be the ssme towards them? I'd tell good friends I don't like certain behaviour of them but would not speak up to dBPDxbf. That's where you can see where your behaviour is off.

2) Sorrow has two enemies: positivity and hope.

I've been reluctant to accept and see the real issues simply because I became overly positive and hopeful of a better outcome in his therapy. It was also keeping me away of actually mourning for the loss of the r/s or the dream it was. It doesn't mean that if I let these feelings in now, I won't be able to reasses the situation next year - if I would really like that and he has actually done the work. But it is allowing me to get passed this right now, and open up to all potential outcomes, not just the one I'm idealising right now.

[Grey Kitty]

Another gentle lesson for myself today... .this time about my FOO.

Background: My mother knows that my favorite kind of cookies are oatmeal scotchies. (She's kinda fixed on it in fact. I do like other cookies, and my tastes have shifted a little toward less sweet over the last decade... .but it feels kinder and more loving not to even express this around her, especially because I do love them still.) In addition, my wife was spending more time with my parents in the time when I wasn't talking to her recently... .she and my mom had a discussion that a care package would be nice for me here in the boatyard... .my wife knowing that we were having huge fights, and my mom not yet aware. Within a day or two of when I told my parents what was going on, the cookies were mailed, and today I got the package. 

There were little sticky labels with notes on them on the two containers of cookies:

"Hope these boost your energy & spirits! Hugs, Mom & Dad"

"If they taste/look a bit different, I accidentally added extra sugar, & they 'melted' flat."

There were also two cans of Onion & Garlic Macadamias. (Another favorite of mine!) One had this note: "Tidying up helps ! I found these macadamias as a result."

My first thought (after eating a cookie!) was along the lines of 'You didn't have to minimize your gift to me by pointing out its flaws.'

My second thought was along the lines of 'Well, maybe you did have to do that. It is part of who you are and where you are at emotionally.'

I'm going to accept that, set it down, and hold the love in my heart... .and eat the cookies.

And continue to grow so I can give my love more freely than that. And cry some more Tears of Divine Intervention today.

[waverider]

My first thought (after eating a cookie!) was along the lines of 'You didn't have to minimize your gift to me by pointing out its flaws.'

I get this a lot, I think it is partly elicit reassurance and praise, which is often what gift giving is often all about.

At times it can make the whole thing into such a drama that it ruins the whole gesture. Given the time of year this is already in full force. Already apologizing to people for the fact that she can't afford xmas gifts as good as she would like. Even though they are going to be over the top anyway.

We have a lot of Birthdays running up to xmas too. It makes me hate this time of year.

[123Phoebe]

My first thought (after eating a cookie!) was along the lines of 'You didn't have to minimize your gift to me by pointing out its flaws.'

My second thought was along the lines of 'Well, maybe you did have to do that. It is part of who you are and where you are at emotionally.'

I'm going to accept that, set it down, and hold the love in my heart... .and eat the cookies.

Yum

[Grey Kitty]

Knowing why my mom does things like this with gifts isn't important to me today. I'm just working through how I feel about it. I've done a lot of that already... .moving along... .

Woo Hoo! This is my thread, and *I* get to choose where it is going for me! As I said earlier, this is a huge personal issue for me right now, and I'm having fun with it!

My latest thoughts are about getting up in the morning. With rare and short exceptions, I resisted doing it about as far back as I can remember.

• In highschool I slept in and was late to school enough times that I was actually suspended from school for three days!



• I remember being in a passive-aggressive fight with my parents on a camping trip, where I just wouldn't get out of my sleeping bag in the morning until everybody else was up. They even let the air out of my air mattress!



• Up until a couple years ago, my wife who was an earlier riser would often nag and harass me. My reaction was to put a pillow over my head and hope that the annoying buzzing noise will go away soon



• The change came when she stopped being abusive, and thought about catching more ants with honey than vinegar. Instead she started getting up and bringing me a cup of coffee. Her original expectation was that I would have some quiet time then get up on my own. Instead, our normal pattern became that she would come back to bed with her coffee, and we would snuggle, and I would slowly and gently wake up, and we usually had very good open conversations for an hour or two.



• Over the years, I cannot count the number of times I resolved to get up earlier, and failed.



• As an adult, I've asked my wife for help, which was an invitation for her to nag me, which she didn't really want. Unsurprisingly, no good results came from this!



• When I let go of trying to control my schedule, I would usually find myself staying up an hour or three later each night and getting up correspondingly later. Obviously this didn't fit well when I had a work or school schedule... .but there were summer break times where I did this. Interacting with people on other schedules is harder, but it did feel good in some ways.



• Unless I get significant physical activity. If I do that, my body likes a 24 hour day rather than the 26 hour one it liked as a couch potato or computer kumquat.



• The other side of this is (of course) staying up late. I generally felt energized late at night or late in my schedule, and could easily stay happily engaged in doing things, either social things if I'm hanging out with other people staying up late, or working on personal projects. Even in the last few years, I've pulled allnighters building things... .and been happy about it!

Something in me seems to have changed.

I went to my boat in this boatyard (EST). My wife went back to the left coast (PST) and started the whole cheating thing I've been writing so much about. Most of my friends and family, and support network are in that time zone.

• I soon drifted to a PST schedule in an EST life. I didn't try to fight it. Talking to people at 1am for me (10pm for them) was good for me. I don't remember bothering to set alarms for myself. I do not have a scheduled job. I am working on my boat, and cannot do many physical projects outside of daylight hours.



• As I started to get more energy for working on projects, I did start shifting a bit earlier.



• I finally set an alarm for 6:10am which is before first light. Physical work mostly prefers to wait for the dew to burn off, perhaps 10am, and this allowed me quiet and thoughtful time first.



• Looking at my diary, this stated about the time my wife started physically cheating, which was also about the time I went NC/LC and stopped talking to her



• In the last couple weeks I've been awakening early, almost always before first light and before my alarm.



• I'm experiencing the feeling of staying up too late for the first time ever. If I'm up past 10pm, I notice that I'm sleepy and fuzzy, instead of sharp and energized. I may still spend an hour at my computer like this before I decide to get ready for bed.



• This feeling that I WANT to go to sleep instead of being fuzzy is new. I've often felt I SHOULD go to sleep. I know that one. I've FELT sleepy. I know that one too.

I don't know if this change will still be with me tomorrow morning or not.

I do believe that listening to my own feelings and making my own choices is bearing fruit, and I like it. Maybe someday it will stop surprising me what I find. Or maybe not!

[waverider]

Do you find that spending your time of forums like this is another way to extend your day and avoiding going to bed.? Giving yourself a valid reason for staying up?

Going To Bed Avoidance Disorder 

I am pretty sure thats what I do. I always seem to quickly do "one last check" of all my internet interests before I head off to be. There is always something that needs replying too. Next thing you know midnight hour is upon me and I have stayed up later than I intended.

[Grey Kitty]

Do you find that spending your time of forums like this is another way to extend your day and avoiding going to bed.? Giving yourself a valid reason for staying up?

Going To Bed Avoidance Disorder 

Oh yeah, I've done that plenty!

Right now I'm amazed that was driving me to do this sort of stuff has somehow faded. I still wonder what will happen next!

[Grey Kitty]

If you missed my last thread about my marriage, I was ready to end it... .and my wife blinked instead, so we're trying to work things out now. We both have plenty of work still. But not on this thread. This one is still about me and my choices! 

So I find myself back in the boatyard alone after a roadtrip, and still haven't started working on boat projects yet. I've been back almost 48 hours now. I'm going to be gentle with myself, tonight.

I have some legitimate logistical things to be working on with my arrival. I also have a normal pattern of spending a few days in almost hibernation with depression and loneliness. So some of this is going on too.

And now that I'm back in contact with my wife, I'm a little more worried about losing my way, and following hers.

I also intend to start working on boatyard projects tomorrow. Momentum will become my friend again.

[ColdEthyl]

Thank you for sharing, Grey Kitty. There's not a person alive who isn't dealing with issues, and I'm glad you are staring at yours dead the face!

I can definitely relate to you on your high school/computer phases. My high school experiences left me lackluster in the social department, so I don't have friends now. What friends I did have were over the internet gaming, and I used that place as a place to hide. Don't get me wrong... .some of the best days of my life were laughing and playing a video game over the net with 10 other people. But, it was unhealthy.

I have wanted to go back to online gaming so much the past few years, because I miss my friends. But, I will not do it because it's an addiction for me. It wasn't unheard of for me to be playing 18 hours straight.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm going to accept that, set it down, and hold the love in my heart... .and eat the cookies.

It was a big batch of cookies, and I didn't take it on my road trip... .they lasted quite a while. Today I ate the last cookie. 

I guess there is something else I can thank my mother for--even though she is one of those people for whom, food is love... .even though from my perspective, she has a kinda wacky relationship with food, she still managed to raise me with a healthy attitude about food.

[ziniztar]

I guess there is something else I can thank my mother for--even though she is one of those people for whom, food is love... .even though from my perspective, she has a kinda wacky relationship with food, she still managed to raise me with a healthy attitude about food.

Yes, you can be thankful for that. My father's idea of self-care is eating cake, butter with marmelade in the middle of some white bread (pun intended), liters of "diet' soda and a whole bag of chips. Whenever we were on a vacation, they didn't listen to us when we wanted to play with other children from the other (cooler) camp site, but they did let us choose our own flavor of ultra sized candy bar. "Because we're on a vacation!"

 

I've always struggled with my weight as it's a way for me to be nice to myself when I feel bad. Luckily for me I've also used sports as a coping mechanism so I've never gotten ultraoverweight, but, it does go back and forth a lot. I lost 15 kilo's last year and gained 12 during my r/s with dBPDxbf (in the last few months... ).

I'm slowly seeing the different coping mechanisms I have: getting hammered (college), xtc (early work life), binge-eating (always), fitness (early work life), excessive "netflixing" (college + early work life), rigid diets (college), too much sex and/or lovers (college), excessive spending and getting into debt despite my fine salary for a 29 year old (early work life)... .all to exert some kind of control or create a numbness. I now allow myself 1 day and then have to get out and do healthier stuff.  

a good r/s with food means that you want to take good care of you, keep that up in other parts of your life as well. With me, there was always something present. If I was eating well and exercising I'd feel good about myself about that, but in hindsight I was drinking too much wine on a daily basis or overspending on clothes during those same months. When I wasn't doing that, I was overeating, or overworking, or overdating  . I'm now trying to keep everything at a moderate level and try to deal with the emotions when they arise.

[formflier]

 

Me too on the food thing... .my weight has been fluctuating.  Of course now... with holidays... .and plenty of good food... .I'm up.  Not back up to my all time high... but getting back up there.

Sigh... .if people just didn't cook so good... .

[Grey Kitty]

Here's a new thing I found... .this site can be too much of a good thing for me. I don't mean that there is anything bad here. I also know that I am contributing things which have made a real difference here. I've even heard from a few members how much I've helped them, and I'm not fishing for more.

I'm talking about how I've used this community in my life.

Last week I caught myself sitting down at my computer instead of more productive things that I would be working on if I was more true to my own values. I've done that a lot. Here's the kicker. I caught myself checking for new replies here... .responding to a few... .then going over to facebook for a bit... .then coming back and looking for more here.

I *KNOW* that I'm using facebook as a way to avoid more difficult but important things in my life. When I'm bouncing back and forth between here and there, I've just proven to myself that I can do the same thing with my time here. I'm very aware that more value comes of my time here than surfing facebook. So if I'm going to avoid stuff, this is a better place to do it.

I'm going to limit myself some. I'm spending a week at my father-in-law's place, with my wife, plus other friends and family members in this town, so I'll be occupied with holiday things. I won't have time to check in here several times a day.

When I return to my boat and start on projects, I will aim for a more healthy level for me here... .probably about the same as it will be this next week.

  Happy Holidays!