should I divorce him?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I am considering divorce at this time because I just cannot take the verbal abuse any longer. The one thing that keeps holding me back is the fact that I will not be there to defend or take care of my kids against my dBPDh. And you said it. I know how he makes me feel and I cannot imagine how a child would feel against that. And to make it worse his mother is a BPD so there is no help there.

Advice?

[survivalmode27]

I am considering divorce at this time because I just cannot take the verbal abuse any longer. The one thing that keeps holding me back is the fact that I will not be there to defend or take care of my kids against my dBPDh. And you said it. I know how he makes me feel and I cannot imagine how a child would feel against that. And to make it worse his mother is a BPD so there is no help there.

Advice?

[Matt]

How old are the kids?

[ForeverDad]

My husband has been a different person since our child was born.

That was my experience too.  Having a child is a big change for even a healthy marriage, when it is dysfunctional... .

In my case, my ex is hyper-vigilant due to her childhood experiences.  Before we had a child it was a "high maintenance" relationship, afterward, well, it was like she had to choose whom to love - and I lost.  Since I wasn't loved, I eventually became her scapegoat.  She had to focus her blame elsewhere, at first it was others, her coworkers, our friends, my family, and before long only I was left to get the focus of her dysfunction.

Are his rants, rages, demands and other misbehaviors directed at you alone?  I faced that.  I even called CPS twice asking for help before we separated.  When I mentioned the rants and rages, both times the ladies asked, "Is she raging at your child?"  I had to admit he was just exposed to it but still impacted.  I was told to call back if she started raging at him.  Apparently in my area being the target of rages is reportable and perhaps even actionable but being exposed to rages isn't.

I would highly recommend you start documenting the details of these incidents.  Now.  Do you use a journal, planner or calendar?  Use them.  Save them in safe places your spouse cannot access either physically or electronically.  It also would be good to have a voice recorder or other device that can record so that you have *proof* what you reported or stated is true.  (No, you don't shove it in his face, please don't trigger incidents.  I kept my digital recorder in my pocket.)  These days there are so many devices that can record, I saw one that is a 'pencam' that can connect to a computer to download files and it even writes.  Of course, just be very careful you are never the one yelling or screaming, if you report his poor behaviors then he will try to dig up some incident to claim you do it too.  My ex would regularly make false allegations - the agencies always referred to them passively as 'unsubstantiated' and not false - soon after she had been caught raging in an attempt to make me look as bad as or worse than her.

Without documentation of the dates and related details the court is likely to look at it all as "he-said, she-said" and call it hearsay.  Even if it isn't 'actionable' it can still influence a judge to limit his parenting time or at least not give him extra time.

Court considers the time during a divorce as one of heightened emotions that will soon subside and so is reluctant to act assertively.  Sadly, that's not so in our cases.  Your goal is to document to the court that his poor behaviors toward you and your child are evidence of a pervasive behavior pattern that is not caused by a divorce and that your child's exposure to it should be limited as much as possible.

[momtara]

That's a problem many of us come across.  In the end, sometimes it's better to leave.  Document everything so he can get as little time as possible, and read the tea leaves (if you can) about whether your state gives 50/50 custody to dads often. 

[survivalmode27]

We have a 4 year old and a 1 year old, both girls!

My husband is in therapy and the therapy lady has diagnosed him as a borderline/NP. She is trying to dismantle him. She told him to get on an antidepressant and agreed to do so. She has also warned me that it is going to take lots of time and not to expect results overnight. She knows that I am close to giving up, and states it is not healthy to be in an abusive relationship. Not for me or the kids. But she also believes that my support is going to be important to his recovery.

I have kept a journal off and on, I have thought about doing so again for charting his behaviors. And I have also thought about recording some of the rants. I just don't always know when they are coming and am not ready to record them. I guess I would have to do more research on devices.

I do believe in court the therapist would be able to attest to his behavior. But honestly I don't want to take him away from his children. He is a good dad and is loving with them for the most part. I am the target of his anger, not them. They are just both girls and I don't want them to grow up and think it is normal for a woman to be treated like this.

I fear that if I was not there for him to project on then he might start projecting to the children. I am just at a loss on which direction to go. I really want to be supportive and be there, and have a family together. But I am not only not getting what I need from a romantic relationship, but also taking a lot of gas lighting, projection, and pure negativity.

[ForeverDad]

I had to leave, as did so many others here.  It might be different in your case, your spouse is in some level of therapy, something my ex outright refused to do.  As yet you don't know whether or how much his therapy will help.  It shouldn't take long, though, to determine whether he's really making changes or just playing the game.  At that point you can decide what you will do.  Meanwhile, yes, get prepared for either outcome, do keep documenting.  Courts are quick to ignore the low-level "he-said, she-said" as hearsay and not actionable.  Keep a journal or planner updated.  I recorded, I missed a lot but did get some that almost literally saved me from wearing an orange jumpsuit.

However... .there is a huge impact for staying if he does not improve.  While you do want to protect your child, the fact is your child is seeing the conflict while you keep taking it as the target and that is so impactful.  If things don't change then your child will grow up not knowing what a healthy and functional relationship should be.  He or she would be at high risk of choose a spouse "just like mom" or "just like dad".  If your spouse doesn't improve then do you see the need to establish your own stable and calm home so he or she can know what home life and family is supposed to be, even if part of his life he will be away with his other parent?

I separated when our son was 3 years old.  Ex got majority time in the temp order until the divorce was final and I had equal time.  He was 6 years old and in kindergarten.  His teacher wouldn't allow her to even come to the classroom but was happy for me to volunteer a half day in class a couple times as long as I agreed not to tell ex.  Over the years I've become Legal Guardian and just a year ago gotten majority time during the school year.  During that time our GAL said "Your son will be okay because of you."  But it has still been an immense struggle for him as I wrote below on another thread.

My son is in 7th grade now but it hasn't been easy on him.  Most years the teachers would say he was bright but was struggling with schoolwork and behaviors.  Many courts seem to ignore the huge impact of their too-slow adjustments to orders in high conflict cases.

Frankly, I am sure it would have been worse for him if I had stayed longer, I just don't know how much worse.  I realized that Staying didn't work, my ex wasn't responding well, had become more and more oppositional and obstructive and I discerned I wasn't setting a good example for my son by staying.  I saw the need that something had to change for the better.  If my ex wasn't going to change, then I had to change and step up to being a strong positive parent.

A core aspect of that change can be summed up in how better boundaries were the answer.

[Matt]

You mention two huge aspects:  kids and therapy.

It's great that he is in therapy, and it sounds like he is taking it seriously.  One study I read said that when someone with BPD gets the right kind of therapy, and stays with it for at least five years, it's more than 80% likely he will achieve remission of the primary symptoms of BPD;  so he would still have BPD, but he wouldn't appear to have it.  He could live a normal life and maybe even have a good relationship.

That's long-term.  Short-term, you might consider a separation, to give him time to focus on his recovery, while you focus on any issues and challenges you may have, including raising the kids.  If he sees the kids regularly, and does well with them, great - they can benefit from having a relationship with both parents.  If he doesn't handle it well, then you can decide what to do based on that, like maybe the kids should spend less time with him.

I was married 12 years to a woman who was later diagnosed with BPD and other stuff.  We have kids who were 8 and 10 when we separated, plus stepkids (her biokids) 17 and 29 when we separated.  The separation was a bad experience for all the kids - they all acted out in different ways.  I got the younger kids into counseling and that helped.  I was also in counseling myself - no disorders but just dealing with all this was very stressful and I needed that help.