We will never feel the agony a borderline feels

[Pingo]

This got me thinking. I question if they feel too. This thread made me start wondering if they do in fact feel or if they are just abusers themselves. Mine came from a highly dysfunctional family and was physically sexually emotionally abused as a child... .doesn't data show that there is a High probability that children who endured just abuse will grow up to be abusers themselves?  

By me saying I think my exgf has BPD that might be to generous of me... .maybe she doesn't have BPD... .maybe she is just an abuser and feels nothing. Thoughts?

I always felt like... .towards the end... .she treated me the way her father treated her. And all I wanted was for her to love me as much as I loved her. She took all that hate and anger towards her father out on me cuz she was to afraid to face him. I became the replacement for her father and she beat the sht out of me emotionally and mentally. Maybe that's all she is... .an abuser. Nothing More. I am giving her way to much credit saying she has BPD.

I went through this thought as well after we split.  I read Lundy Bancroft's book on abuse and I got so angry at my ex as it brought to the surface all the abuse I had suffered, abuse that I had denied, overlooked, rationalised, excused, etc.  Lundy Bancroft points out that most abusers do NOT have a mental illness.  I wondered, am I giving him this label to make myself feel better?  That the man I spent 4 yrs with and married is NOT a monster?  I think it was all the anger coming out of the injustice of it all.  Now, 5 mths out, I do accept that my ex has a mental illness.  It may not be BPD, I don't know.  But all I know is he is very troubled.  Does that change the abuse?  Nope.  It was still abuse. 

[Pingo]

Here are some snippets from articles on this site, which may help with our understandings:

The problem that I have with focusing too much on the disorder and understanding BPD is the fact that it makes it more difficult for me to detach emotionally. I find myself feeling like a real heel when I try to understand his agony or whatever it is that is going on in his mind. I can't help but say, "What about me? What about my perceptions? What about my feelings? What about my actions?" I am sure that he is living in his own personal hell. I am trying to get to a place where I am no longer worrying about that because worrying about it and thinking about it feels very invalidating to me. My struggles, while they may not be as horrific or as difficult as his, are still very real. My codependent/rescuer/protector tendencies go into overdrive when I think too much about his struggles.

That is very true Vortex, and I think that's why Skip is always trying to steer us from analysing our exes too much and looking at our own roles in the r/ss.  This is why I found it helpful to focus on the abuse and not the abuser.

[Deeno02]

Here are some snippets from articles on this site, which may help with our understandings:

The problem that I have with focusing too much on the disorder and understanding BPD is the fact that it makes it more difficult for me to detach emotionally. I find myself feeling like a real heel when I try to understand his agony or whatever it is that is going on in his mind. I can't help but say, "What about me? What about my perceptions? What about my feelings? What about my actions?" I am sure that he is living in his own personal hell. I am trying to get to a place where I am no longer worrying about that because worrying about it and thinking about it feels very invalidating to me. My struggles, while they may not be as horrific or as difficult as his, are still very real. My codependent/rescuer/protector tendencies go into overdrive when I think too much about his struggles.

To put it bluntly, I get why their jacked up. I don't care. She's someone else's problem. I have to focus now on the damage she caused me and my kids. Forgive me if I don't give a Sh*t about their struggles. Got my own now. However, I will go on record, as I said before, they feel nothing and they sure don't care either.

[willtimeheal]

The damage she did to me is something I will struggle with fir year to come. Feeling pity for her or trying to understand her will not help me at this point. My life is in turmoil and falling apart. It takes every ounce of strength to get up in the morning. I go between I love her and want her back to I hate her and hopes she rots in hell. All I know is I don't want to feel like this anymore. I am in therapy on meds and yet I still cry and am depressed. When do I see the silver lining?

[fromheeltoheal]

Here are some snippets from articles on this site, which may help with our understandings:

The problem that I have with focusing too much on the disorder and understanding BPD is the fact that it makes it more difficult for me to detach emotionally. I find myself feeling like a real heel when I try to understand his agony or whatever it is that is going on in his mind. I can't help but say, "What about me? What about my perceptions? What about my feelings? What about my actions?" I am sure that he is living in his own personal hell. I am trying to get to a place where I am no longer worrying about that because worrying about it and thinking about it feels very invalidating to me. My struggles, while they may not be as horrific or as difficult as his, are still very real. My codependent/rescuer/protector tendencies go into overdrive when I think too much about his struggles.

To put it bluntly, I get why their jacked up. I don't care. She's someone else's problem. I have to focus now on the damage she caused me and my kids. Forgive me if I don't give a Sh*t about their struggles. Got my own now. However, I will go on record, as I said before, they feel nothing and they sure don't care either.

Yes, as vortex says

"What about me? What about my perceptions? What about my feelings? What about my actions?"

Valid questions.  We all detach differently, and for me, I thought I was literally going insane in the relationship, caught up, enmeshed with, continuous chaos, wild mood swings, abuse, blame, rude behavior, insanity.  I fled because I just couldn't understand what the hell was going on, I certainly couldn't fix it, and my attempts made it worse.  So as I started learning about the disorder everything started to make sense, I suddenly understood why she does the things she does, and that helped a great deal.  It didn't make it OK, not by any stretch, but it suddenly made sense.

And what also made sense was I would never get my needs met there.  Borderlines are need-driven and meet those needs by using other people, and are also emotionally arrested, so even if they wanted to consider our needs and feelings they would have limited or no ability to do so.  Of course everyone's different, but my ex fit the descriptions to a T.

My struggles, while they may not be as horrific or as difficult as his, are still very real. My codependent/rescuer/protector tendencies go into overdrive when I think too much about his struggles.

 And therein lies the gift of these relationships: a relationship with a borderline shines a spotlight on areas that still need work, and the processing that comes out of that can result in a huge growth spurt moving forward.  We need validation, compassion and empathy coming out of these relationships, since we were usually getting the opposite in them, and as we get them externally we can re-remember how to give them to ourselves.  If the clinical side of the disorder doesn't help like it did me, best to let it go and focus on ourselves, a requirement for detachment, and maybe some day in the future we can look back and have compassion for our ex's struggles, once we've dealt with our own stuff and built a new life we love.  Take care of you!

[Caredverymuch]

Here are some snippets from articles on this site, which may help with our understandings:

The problem that I have with focusing too much on the disorder and understanding BPD is the fact that it makes it more difficult for me to detach emotionally. I find myself feeling like a real heel when I try to understand his agony or whatever it is that is going on in his mind. I can't help but say, "What about me? What about my perceptions? What about my feelings? What about my actions?" I am sure that he is living in his own personal hell. I am trying to get to a place where I am no longer worrying about that because worrying about it and thinking about it feels very invalidating to me. My struggles, while they may not be as horrific or as difficult as his, are still very real. My codependent/rescuer/protector tendencies go into overdrive when I think too much about his struggles.

To put it bluntly, I get why their jacked up. I don't care. She's someone else's problem. I have to focus now on the damage she caused me and my kids. Forgive me if I don't give a Sh*t about their struggles. Got my own now. However, I will go on record, as I said before, they feel nothing and they sure don't care either.

Yes, as vortex says "What about me? What about my perceptions? What about my feelings? What about my actions?"

Valid questions.  We all detach differently, and for me, I thought I was literally going insane in the relationship, caught up, enmeshed with, continuous chaos, wild mood swings, abuse, blame, rude behavior, insanity.  I fled because I just couldn't understand what the hell was going on, I certainly couldn't fix it, and my attempts made it worse.  So as I started learning about the disorder everything started to make sense, I suddenly understood why she does the things she does, and that helped a great deal.  It didn't make it OK, not by any stretch, but it suddenly made sense.

And what also made sense was I would never get my needs met there.  Borderlines are need-driven and meet those needs by using other people, and are also emotionally arrested, so even if they wanted to consider our needs and feelings they would have limited or no ability to do so.  Of course everyone's different, but my ex fit the descriptions to a T.

My struggles, while they may not be as horrific or as difficult as his, are still very real. My codependent/rescuer/protector tendencies go into overdrive when I think too much about his struggles.  And therein lies the gift of these relationships: a relationship with a borderline shines a spotlight on areas that still need work, and the processing that comes out of that can result in a huge growth spurt moving forward.  We need validation, compassion and empathy coming out of these relationships, since we were usually getting the opposite in them, and as we get them externally we can re-remember how to give them to ourselves.  If the clinical side of the disorder doesn't help like it did me, best to let it go and focus on ourselves, a requirement for detachment, and maybe some day in the future we can look back and have compassion for our ex's struggles, once we've dealt with our own stuff and built a new life we love.  Take care of you!

FHTH, excellent post! So true for myself and my past r/s w my ex.  As my T said early on when I asked why the immense chaos: "you had a need."

I couldn't be in a r/s like that without going further insane.  My happiness comes from fulfillment and intrinsic goodness.

Really good advice here FTHT. Thank you.

[fromheeltoheal]

Really good advice here FTHT. Thank you.

  You're welcome, as we all heal together.   

[bungenstein]

I am currently really hungover, and ever since my split I get really bad hangover anxiety. I wonder if this anxiety is similar to how a borderline feels, I wonder if its like they have a constant 24/7 hangover?

[Agent_of_Chaos]

I do agree the turmoil they have inside is relentless.  It has to take its toll mentally and psychically.  I saw my BPDxgf go from joy to utter despair in less than on a day on many occasions.  I have no doubt this is why many of them seek other coping mechanisms such as alcohol to ease the pain.  My ex lost everything due to her alcoholism and now she's living with her parents in AZ at 43 years old.  She's starting to drink again out there now  too and finds no comfort in AA or any structured program. 

I am struggling with all she put me through, but I would be lying if I said I had no compassion for her plight in life.  It would seem her road will be a turbulent one the rest of her life, very sad.

I think for most of us on this forum the need for closure and the heartbreak lingers.  People of our nature (usually co-dependents, or gentle and empathetic souls) seem to gravitate towards people that suffer from BPD.  Regardless of my own pain, I can't seem to turn my back.  I feel sorry for her and I don't want to be like everyone else that has just thrown her in the cold.  My situation wasn't as extreme as some.  She wasn't aggressive nor physically abusive.  She didn't have rages where she put me down.  She was just an emotional void... .sometimes.

These boards have armed me with the knowledge of WHY my relationship didn't work out. It is comforting out there knowing that there are others whom carry the same emotional turmoil, but it doesn't make it any easier.

Does anyone know if they gain any self worth through therapy?  Is there any chance that it therapy helps heal what they are feeling inside?

[willtimeheal]

I do agree the turmoil they have inside is relentless.  It has to take its toll mentally and psychically.  I saw my BPDxgf go from joy to utter despair in less than on a day on many occasions.  I have no doubt this is why many of them seek other coping mechanisms such as alcohol to ease the pain.  My ex lost everything due to her alcoholism and now she's living with her parents in AZ at 43 years old.  She's starting to drink again out there now  too and finds no comfort in AA or any structured program. 

I am struggling with all she put me through, but I would be lying if I said I had no compassion for her plight in life.  It would seem her road will be a turbulent one the rest of her life, very sad.

I think for most of us on this forum the need for closure and the heartbreak lingers.  People of our nature (usually co-dependents, or gentle and empathetic souls) seem to gravitate towards people that suffer from BPD.  Regardless of my own pain, I can't seem to turn my back.  I feel sorry for her and I don't want to be like everyone else that has just thrown her in the cold.  My situation wasn't as extreme as some.  She wasn't aggressive nor physically abusive.  She didn't have rages where she put me down.  She was just an emotional void... .sometimes.

These boards have armed me with the knowledge of WHY my relationship didn't work out. It is comforting out there knowing that there are others whom carry the same emotional turmoil, but it doesn't make it any easier.

Does anyone know if they gain any self worth through therapy?  Is there any chance that it therapy helps heal what they are feeling inside?

They rarely stay in therapy. They quit or find an excuse with the therapist.

[Caredverymuch]

I do agree the turmoil they have inside is relentless.  It has to take its toll mentally and psychically.  I saw my BPDxgf go from joy to utter despair in less than on a day on many occasions.  I have no doubt this is why many of them seek other coping mechanisms such as alcohol to ease the pain.  My ex lost everything due to her alcoholism and now she's living with her parents in AZ at 43 years old.  She's starting to drink again out there now  too and finds no comfort in AA or any structured program. 

I am struggling with all she put me through, but I would be lying if I said I had no compassion for her plight in life.  It would seem her road will be a turbulent one the rest of her life, very sad.

I think for most of us on this forum the need for closure and the heartbreak lingers.  People of our nature (usually co-dependents, or gentle and empathetic souls) seem to gravitate towards people that suffer from BPD.  Regardless of my own pain, I can't seem to turn my back.  I feel sorry for her and I don't want to be like everyone else that has just thrown her in the cold.  My situation wasn't as extreme as some.  She wasn't aggressive nor physically abusive.  She didn't have rages where she put me down.  She was just an emotional void... .sometimes.

These boards have armed me with the knowledge of WHY my relationship didn't work out. It is comforting out there knowing that there are others whom carry the same emotional turmoil, but it doesn't make it any easier.

Does anyone know if they gain any self worth through therapy?  Is there any chance that it therapy helps heal what they are feeling inside?

It's difficult to generalize about this and I would like to believe in successes.

I can tell you that my expBPD  sees several therapists per week as well as being on meds, for almost 2 yrs. He has been identified so I assume that his therapy focuses on DBT, although I have maintained NC so unsure.

That said, he still baits me to this day. And I am aware he does this to others.