Strange fight with mom and sister

[Depression = 72% of members]

                                   I was to be at their place at 6 oclock tonight for dinner.  It turned out that I finally found a riding instructor close by who was going to let me watch a lesson she was giving at 4:30.  I spent a lot of time on google map and had it all mapped out and figured I wouldnt have any problems getting back in time for dinner.  This was really important to me and since 4:30 was the only time she had open, I grab at it and went.

                                            I was really glad I did since Ive been so depressed lately, I really needed to do this for myself and Im glad I did.  I really like the lady and decided to schedule a lesson with her. I called my mother before I got there because I needed help with directions and she seemed very pleased that I was doing this.(She looked on line for me)       

                                         I stayed about a half hour and then noticed that it was starting to get dark so I had to leave as soon as I could since I was still unsure of my way back. I thought I had it all, the directions back but something happened at one turn where I had really gone wrong and by this time it was pitch black out side. I was lost.  I was really lost!  It turned out I drove about 15 minutes in the wrong direction and finally stopped at this church and got directions back the way I came and ended up on this side road going to the town I needed to go to but it was a back country road so it took for ever to get to my moms house for dinner.  I was a half hour late.

                                 I came into the house and all of a sudden by mother was grumbling about something under her breath to my sisterin the kitchen. yes,  they were talking about me.  Its just so rude. Im sitting at the table about 5 feet away.  When I came in I said I was sorry and that I had gotten lost.  Do you think that made any difference?

Finally I said what's wrong? and then my sister speaks for my mother since they are the same person. And I said if your upset with me why dont you just tell me honestly what the problem is instead of  talking about me behind my back in the kitchen?  Well,  my mother came forward and started ranting me out because I showed up late when I said I was going to be there at 6. I was going to spend some time painting with my Aunt who has demensia and I was really looking forward to this but I noticed when I got there she was all ready in bed. I was too late. It seemed they put her to bed a little early but Im not sure. It was around 6:30.

                          You see I painted with her earlier this week when I was there for dinner and she really enjoyed the attention. I told my mother I would do this again tonight because she really enjoyed it and I did too. Im an Art teacher.      Well,  I was late. I never thought I would be. I had everything mapped out really well but there was something about the darkness that totally through me  for a loop.  Like I said, I was really lost.

                                So Im trying to tell my mother this as she is yelling at me and trying to push this great big guilt trip on me. My Aunt was waiting for you all afternoon. This is all we talked about. bla bla bla. You said you were going to be here at 6.  I couldnt get a word in edge wize.  Then my sister joins in raising her voise really loud over mine.   Here we go again I thought. They are ganging up on me again over the most irrational reasoning. They were so mean! Just like it was the last time they ganged up on me.  Nor making sense. Not listening to a word I was saying. I was just a bad ,bad person because I wasnt there at 6. I didnt get lost on purpose. It was an accident.  They wouldnt listen.     

                       I thought arent they over blowing this a bit? I can come over anytime to paint with my Aunt. I even said,  Ill come over tomorrow!  I was telling them,  there is plenty of time for this.  It was ignored. My Aunt has demensia,  she cant remember one hour or day from the next and they know this.

             I got up from the table and went home.  I called my mother and she was still so mean. Telling me I was selfish and all I ever think about is my self.  If anyone knows what I do here, youd know what I do for them everything day.  Its not appreciated. At least now I dont think that it is, not after what my mom said to me. She said it was selfish of me to go out and find a bloody trainer... ... .I said, a what trainer? I caught her on that one. It was a put down just the same and Im really heart broken because she knows how much riding means to me and how serious I am about it. She has all ways supported me, and so now I feel so betrayed.

I allways help out when I go over to their house and everyday I work on this farm taking care of 16 cats, 2 dog, 6 other cats, and 5 horses,this goes on twice a day, plus working in the yard and barn and garage.   Oh it doesnt matter. My mother is out of her mind.    But wouldnt of any of you be affended by this? 


  Is this BPD?    I kept on explaining to her how I was lost with all its details, in the dark,   and she kept saying as if I had said nothing at all, the same rant:  "Well  you were suppose to be here at 6 and you werent.  She kept saying this over and over trying to drown out what I was trying to tell her, as if it had said nothing of importance at all.

Then I called my sister and told her how I felt. I said I was very hurt and then went on about how scary it was being lost in the dark and all thte stops I made and I was going the wrong way and finally got on a back road back to the town which took for ever. I didnt want to stop. I was trying to make it to there house as fast as I could. the whole time I telling this and feeling about how I do care about her and mom and how all the work I do here feels likek its never enough.  and the whole time she is just going:  "aa hah,  aa hah"  real shallow like until eventually she just hung up on me.   What is wrong with them?   

Is this controlling behavior because I for once when out on my own to do something really cool for myself. They couldnt be happy for me.  According to my drunk mom (yaa.  drunk on wine-she turns mean)  I was selfish and all I do is think about my self and she know this because she knows the way  I think. This is what she said.  Is this abusive or what?    I raised my voise to her and said this toxic and abusive of you to be talking to me this way and this has got to stop!    and then I hung up, or she did. I bet she did.  so cowardly.  I am so mad. 

[goingtostopthis]

                                   I was to be at their place at 6 oclock tonight for dinner.  It turned out that I finally found a riding instructor close by who was going to let me watch a lesson she was giving at 4:30.  I spent a lot of time on google map and had it all mapped out and figured I wouldnt have any problems getting back in time for dinner.  This was really important to me and since 4:30 was the only time she had open, I grab at it and went.

                                            I was really glad I did since Ive been so depressed lately, I really needed to do this for myself and Im glad I did.  I really like the lady and decided to schedule a lesson with her. I called my mother before I got there because I needed help with directions and she seemed very pleased that I was doing this.(She looked on line for me)       

                                         I stayed about a half hour and then noticed that it was starting to get dark so I had to leave as soon as I could since I was still unsure of my way back. I thought I had it all, the directions back but something happened at one turn where I had really gone wrong and by this time it was pitch black out side. I was lost.  I was really lost!  It turned out I drove about 15 minutes in the wrong direction and finally stopped at this church and got directions back the way I came and ended up on this side road going to the town I needed to go to but it was a back country road so it took for ever to get to my moms house for dinner.  I was a half hour late.

                                 I came into the house and all of a sudden by mother was grumbling about something under her breath to my sisterin the kitchen. yes,  they were talking about me.  Its just so rude. Im sitting at the table about 5 feet away.  When I came in I said I was sorry and that I had gotten lost.  Do you think that made any difference?

Finally I said what's wrong? and then my sister speaks for my mother since they are the same person. And I said if your upset with me why dont you just tell me honestly what the problem is instead of  talking about me behind my back in the kitchen?  Well,  my mother came forward and started ranting me out because I showed up late when I said I was going to be there at 6. I was going to spend some time painting with my Aunt who has demensia and I was really looking forward to this but I noticed when I got there she was all ready in bed. I was too late. It seemed they put her to bed a little early but Im not sure. It was around 6:30.

                          You see I painted with her earlier this week when I was there for dinner and she really enjoyed the attention. I told my mother I would do this again tonight because she really enjoyed it and I did too. Im an Art teacher.      Well,  I was late. I never thought I would be. I had everything mapped out really well but there was something about the darkness that totally through me  for a loop.  Like I said, I was really lost.

                                So Im trying to tell my mother this as she is yelling at me and trying to push this great big guilt trip on me. My Aunt was waiting for you all afternoon. This is all we talked about. bla bla bla. You said you were going to be here at 6.  I couldnt get a word in edge wize.  Then my sister joins in raising her voise really loud over mine.   Here we go again I thought. They are ganging up on me again over the most irrational reasoning. They were so mean! Just like it was the last time they ganged up on me.  Nor making sense. Not listening to a word I was saying. I was just a bad ,bad person because I wasnt there at 6. I didnt get lost on purpose. It was an accident.  They wouldnt listen.     

                       I thought arent they over blowing this a bit? I can come over anytime to paint with my Aunt. I even said,  Ill come over tomorrow!  I was telling them,  there is plenty of time for this.  It was ignored. My Aunt has demensia,  she cant remember one hour or day from the next and they know this.

             I got up from the table and went home.  I called my mother and she was still so mean. Telling me I was selfish and all I ever think about is my self.  If anyone knows what I do here, youd know what I do for them everything day.  Its not appreciated. At least now I dont think that it is, not after what my mom said to me. She said it was selfish of me to go out and find a bloody trainer... ... .I said, a what trainer? I caught her on that one. It was a put down just the same and Im really heart broken because she knows how much riding means to me and how serious I am about it. She has all ways supported me, and so now I feel so betrayed.

I allways help out when I go over to their house and everyday I work on this farm taking care of 16 cats, 2 dog, 6 other cats, and 5 horses,this goes on twice a day, plus working in the yard and barn and garage.   Oh it doesnt matter. My mother is out of her mind.    But wouldnt of any of you be affended by this? 


  Is this BPD?    I kept on explaining to her how I was lost with all its details, in the dark,   and she kept saying as if I had said nothing at all, the same rant:  "Well  you were suppose to be here at 6 and you werent.  She kept saying this over and over trying to drown out what I was trying to tell her, as if it had said nothing of importance at all.

Then I called my sister and told her how I felt. I said I was very hurt and then went on about how scary it was being lost in the dark and all thte stops I made and I was going the wrong way and finally got on a back road back to the town which took for ever. I didnt want to stop. I was trying to make it to there house as fast as I could. the whole time I telling this and feeling about how I do care about her and mom and how all the work I do here feels likek its never enough.  and the whole time she is just going:  "aa hah,  aa hah"  real shallow like until eventually she just hung up on me.   What is wrong with them?   

Is this controlling behavior because I for once when out on my own to do something really cool for myself. They couldnt be happy for me.  According to my drunk mom (yaa.  drunk on wine-she turns mean)  I was selfish and all I do is think about my self and she know this because she knows the way  I think. This is what she said.  Is this abusive or what?    I raised my voise to her and said this toxic and abusive of you to be talking to me this way and this has got to stop!    and then I hung up, or she did. I bet she did.  so cowardly.  I am so mad. 

[goingtostopthis]

   They are draining me.   I walked out. I set a boundary.   I am not selfish. I think the truth is that they are. I think its obvious.  My mother was acting like a child who needed to grow up and give me break., and maybe care about me a little more then  her painting Aunt who she proclaims she hates so much. no lie... .if she's cooped up in that house with that old lady with nothing to do but drink wine all day and regress... .well this is not my fault. My sister isnt doing scat to help my mother with her. Ya... my new discovery.  And what ever these circumstances are,  there is still NO EXCUSE  for the kind of BS and abuse that went on today all over me.         

[pessim-optimist]

Hello goingtostopthis,

What an evening... .How are you coping, are you feeling any better?

I want to offer you a bit of affirmation and a reality check here:

It's a wonderful thing you did something for yourself and went to the lesson. You have your own life and have a right to live it.

Ok, you got lost, you did your best to get back as soon as possible, you apologized. Mistakes happen, we all get lost sometimes, end of story.

You are absolutely right that you can paint with your aunt tomorrow or any other day.

Now, it seems that your mom or sister aren't able to behave in a rational, respectful, supportive and considerate manner. I am really sorry that they are failing you in this way, and it is something you will continue to grieve over... .

They really can't meet your needs for normal healthy human communication and understanding. We all have this basic need for love and acceptance. You can get this need met, but you will have to look for it elsewhere - in friends, perhaps a significant other.

As it comes to your mom and sister - you are standing up for yourself here, and even with them.  

What really helped me was reading that we can only control our own behavior, we can't change anyone else. It doesn't look like your mom or sister are interested in any change. However - if you change, the dynamic in the relationship will change, and they will have to adjust to it. Now, it often gets worse before it gets better, and they are likely to try to bully you into changing back (it's easier to get through when you know that's coming).

There is a really great piece of advice here that says "don't JADE" (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) - when we are in a heated conversation like you found yourself in this evening, JADEing only gives the other side power and prolongs the fight when they are not being rational and aren't able to hear you anyway. Walking away is safer for you, it protects you from more accusations and hurtful things that they might say. Furthermore - you know that you apologized and did your best - you don't need their approval for that to be true.  

How would you feel about walking away and not arguing with them or trying to explain?

[Linda Maria]

Hi goingtostopthis!  So sorry to hear about the awful fight with your mother and sister.  Having 2 of them ranting at you like that must be unimaginably horrible.  My situation with my uBPDsis has not been nearly so extreme, as I don't live with her, and once the penny dropped about what was going on, I went as NC as I could, and it helped me enormously.  The advice about not JADEing is spot on.  The mad things they accuse you of, the irrational and nasty things they say - don't waste your brain space on it.  My uBPDsis sent me loads of nasty letters last year accusing me of all these things.  I wrote back at first, explaining how I couldn't have said or done these things - a lot of them were easy to disprove.  But it just provoked more nasty letters.  So then I wrote very neutral letters, dealing with my Mum's estate, just routine stuff we needed to agree on - still got mad nasty letters, but never any answers on the proper issues that needed dealing with.  Then I wrote really nice letters, hoping she would see I was prepared to ignore all the nastiness so we could start afresh - still got mad nasty letters.  When I finally realised nothing I said or did made any difference at all - she either couldn't help herself, or found acting this way towards me extremely rewarding, I just stopped.  My letters were probably triggering her, so I stopped giving her ammunition.  She carried on writing mad stuff for a while, and sent awful letters to my solicitor, and told the awful stories to other people, but I just didn't react, and it did stop for the most part, except when there was more official stuff to do that she couldn't avoid.  Then it would start again.  It really is all about what YOU do - and the only thing you can do is focus on what is right for you - which is about protecting yourself and staying as clear of all this as you can.  Your situation makes it difficult to do that right now - but if you are able to walk away and just not react when they start with this s*"t, it may help.  If you're not still in the room to be shouted at, and if you give no reaction, there's no payoff for their behaviour.  I found this part relatively easy as I wasn't physically in proximity with uBPDsis, the thing that was hard for me to get my head round was the fact that other people still had to hear the awful lies about me.  I told myself that anyone who knew me at all wouldn't believe the lies - and guess what - they didn't.  The stuff they say is so weird and irrational that people who are more distant generally see through it straight away - they just find it hard to explain, and probably don't want to get involved.  Longer term I would like to help my sister, or find a way to help her, but although she has some good friends - I hesitate to approach them - not just because they may not fully believe me - they are not people I am close to - and they may well believe some of the stuff about me - but because it's a big thing to ask someone outside the family to get involved.  So that will be my challenge for the future.  But I wish you well - remember - it's all about you - don't get ground down by them, just keep looking forward.  Stay strong.  Best wishes.

[goingtostopthis]

*Thanks for your answers.   

                 I dont how I feel right now.  I keep having play backs in my head over the mean things my mother said to me. She was putting down the one main thing I love so much in my life. Riding Dressage.  I dont know how she could do that? Im really shocked. Telling me that I'm selfish and all I think about is myself, all because I got lost on my way home from meeting this instructor Im going to have.  I dont know this area? Ive been in this state for about a mouth. Im usaully really  good at finding new places but this one really threw me on the way home because it got dark! It was really scary!   Do you think she cared?  I know Im still really effected because I keep on explaining myself when I shouldnt have to. Is this what is meant by jading?

                             Im still really confused as to why this happened. Why were they so mean... .to me? Today both of them came over here and I couldnt help it, I wouldnt open the door, and with my sister I did but told her harshly to leave me alone!  Its makes me so angry , She was the one who hung up on me when I called, bleeding my heart out in pain over why she cant be nice to me, and how I do care about them, bla bla bla  and of course she hangs up on me.

                             I just spoke to my dad after sending him an email telling him as soon as I get a job and the means to follow, Im going to find my own place to lease and get out of here.  I got his attention, but not intentionally. He goes on being very partial about evey thing which I think as a good parent this is good,   but I all ways end up feeling like he doesnt completely believe me. I have no proof but I have this feeling when my sister gets her time to talk to him she lies about things. I got the impression as the grape vine goes that they were angry with me because I didnt call to tell them I was going to be late. If this is so,  then why didnt they say so when they were so busy yelling at me for: BEING LATE ?  You see the truth doesnt come out with them. It gets twisted around to all ways make them look like they havent done anything wrong and this way it all ways appears that Im the one who has the problem.

                             I try to tell my father that they are acting crazy(you know, serious crazy) and he all ways apeases to their side of things, oh my sister has it really  hard,  and my mother is under alot of pressure, etc. etc.  Oh! So that makes irrational and mean behavior all right?     He wont for the life of himself ever validate this to me.

It doesnt seem fair that he's all ways taken in by my sister's BS. She's the oldest so I guess that's why I feel disregarded. Im the youngest.

Who cares that I'm 53 years old.   I think yes,  I need to make some friends here and keep getting out and doing things for myself.  If my mother wants to slam me for this, just because I was late once, then good luck to her. Im going to get ready to see my counselor again soon and I might even find a group to go to. I think this would really help.       Thanks for your advise. I really appreciate  it.   

[Linda Maria]

Hi goingtostopthis!  I really feel for you - you sound like you are in a lot of pain with this right now.  I felt like this last year, everything went round and round in my head all the time, it nearly drove me mad.  I had constant headaches, all sorts of weird aches and pains, I was getting physically ill.  At some point I knew I had to stop things - my situation was different to yours, and not so bad because of the physical distance, but I had to sort out my Mum's estate, and I had to do it with my sister.  So I found a solicitor, so then the nasty letters started going to him, I still got the odd one, but it was much better.  I stopped dreading the postman coming and seeing her writing on the envelopes.  I also found work again, which kept me busy.  And I just made more effort to go out and catch up with people, and really just distract myself.  I had to be quite disciplined to not keep talking about it, and after a while I did feel better.  I realised that in fact, when I did talk to people who knew a bit about it, and maybe ended up talking a lot about it, afterwards I would feel bad again, it was like I was past the talking it out stage, and it wasn't helping any more.  Of course, every few weeks something would happen that would escalate things again and I would have to deal with more nightmares, but it became less of a daily occurrence, and I went longer and longer without thinking about it.  Also - doing exercise helped me, just going for a walk, or going swimming.  All simple things, but they all played a part.  I think your situation is more extreme, and more difficult than mine, but think of all the things you could do to take your mind off it, and keep you away from them.  Plan some things, some trips, some meet ups with people, whatever it is, then you have some positive things to look forward to as well as the other stuff that will keep going round your head.  You sound like you are still at that stage where you keep asking WHY?  Why be so mean, why not listen to you, what's the point in them being like this?  I didn't get any real peace until I stopped asking why, and started to accept (still haven't totally - still get bad days when I hear something she has said or done and it makes me mad) that this is an illness, and to at least some extent (I do believe) they can't help it, and there is no logical explanation, and most important, there isn't anything that I can do that will really help, and I can't allow myself to get used up in the process.  You really have to look after yourself.  Keep posting and venting, that really helps as well.  I so wish you well. 

[pessim-optimist]

It is really really painful to be in such a vulnerable position as you are right now, and it's understandable that you are just reeling from it all... . 

Linda Maria gave some really good advice on how to deal with it in the long run, and your plan to start again with the counselor as soon as you can will help too. Start little by little, do what you can at the moment, and as you get more independent, it will get better... .

I know Im still really effected because I keep on explaining myself when I shouldnt have to. Is this what is meant by jading?

Correct, that's what is meant by JADEing. It's a catchy accronym for the phrase "don't justify, argue, defend or explain" in situations when people are not rational and open to listening and hearing what you have to say. Here is a link to a workshop that explains how to protect yourself from these kinds of hurtful arguments: How to stop circular arguments

Im still really confused as to why this happened. Why were they so mean... .to me?

It is a painful 'why' - the short answer to it is that people w/BPD do and say painful things that don't make logical sense. There usually is some rhyme or reason behind these behaviors, but it often has nothing to do with you.

The first step you can do, is to learn to not engage and protect yourself from these behaviors, when you see them coming. These behaviors are like a dance - the disordered person has their part and they have learned over the years to expect you to dance your part. You can change the dynamic by not participating in that dance any more.

A word of caution here - any drastic changes will likely be met with drastic reactions aimed at getting you back into your old slot, so, before you make changes, make sure you read up on these things, you think it through and are ready for their aggressive reaction.

... .I got the impression as the grape vine goes that they were angry with me because I didnt call to tell them I was going to be late. If this is so,  then why didnt they say so when they were so busy yelling at me for: BEING LATE?

This is a completely separate issue that doesn't justify them being mean at all. Especially since they did not tell you that this was the reason. However, I have realized over time that sometimes I can learn even from situations where people aren't being rational. It IS a good point that if you are being late, letting someone know by calling them is courteous and a good idea. Lesson learned for regular life, however it may not work with your mom and sister next time, so if I was late again and called them and they would get upset, I wouldn't try to break my head over that one either... .

[goingtostopthis]

Hi goingtostopthis!  I really feel for you - you sound like you are in a lot of pain with this right now.  I felt like this last year, everything went round and round in my head all the time, it nearly drove me mad.  I had constant headaches, all sorts of weird aches and pains, I was getting physically ill.  At some point I knew I had to stop things - my situation was different to yours, and not so bad because of the physical distance, but I had to sort out my Mum's estate, and I had to do it with my sister.  So I found a solicitor, so then the nasty letters started going to him, I still got the odd one, but it was much better.  I stopped dreading the postman coming and seeing her writing on the envelopes.  I also found work again, which kept me busy.  And I just made more effort to go out and catch up with people, and really just distract myself.  I had to be quite disciplined to not keep talking about it, and after a while I did feel better.  I realised that in fact, when I did talk to people who knew a bit about it, and maybe ended up talking a lot about it, afterwards I would feel bad again, it was like I was past the talking it out stage, and it wasn't helping any more.  Of course, every few weeks something would happen that would escalate things again and I would have to deal with more nightmares, but it became less of a daily occurrence, and I went longer and longer without thinking about it.  Also - doing exercise helped me, just going for a walk, or going swimming.  All simple things, but they all played a part.  I think your situation is more extreme, and more difficult than mine, but think of all the things you could do to take your mind off it, and keep you away from them.  Plan some things, some trips, some meet ups with people, whatever it is, then you have some positive things to look forward to as well as the other stuff that will keep going round your head.  You sound like you are still at that stage where you keep asking WHY?  Why be so mean, why not listen to you, what's the point in them being like this?  I didn't get any real peace until I stopped asking why, and started to accept (still haven't totally - still get bad days when I hear something she has said or done and it makes me mad) that this is an illness, and to at least some extent (I do believe) they can't help it, and there is no logical explanation, and most important, there isn't anything that I can do that will really help, and I can't allow myself to get used up in the process.  You really have to look after yourself.  Keep posting and venting, that really helps as well.  I so wish you well. 

   Linda, Thank you for all your kind words.   I dont know how Ive been managing this but I have been. Yes, its interesting that you should mention it. I have a problem now of allowing them to be the focal point of my attention now in everthing I do and and every where I go.  My anger level has gone down considerably, I guess maybe because Im being good at self soothing.  Im still bothered by what goes on between them and father verses what goes on between me and my father. I know he was talking to them. He lets little clues slip out. I knew it when he started to lecture me for not calling them and telling them I was going to late. I know why I didnt do it. I didnt want to call because I knew my mother would start all this drama and possibly start freaking out and at the time I was freaking out enough for one person. I needed to stay calm and sort it out on my own with out their complications. I thought Id be 15 minutes late, but when it got longer I wanted to just keep going because I knew I was finally on the right road, I cant see with out my glasses, I would have had to pull over. 

               But you know what,  That wasnt issue at all!  My mother expressed no worry about me.  If she had said : Why didnt you call?  Im angry at you because you didnt call we were worried about you. OK...   I know, I should have called, drama and all.  I should have! If I had been later, I know I would have pulled over and called.  I just think her reaction was so strange.  I go over there for dinner all the time. I live right next door. I understand it was special for my Aunt to paint with me. Its really good therapy for her and me too actually. Ok, I was late. I got lost. I'll paint with her on Sunday night, 2 days later.<which I all ready have.  It was nice.  She has demenia. She doesnt remember one minute from the next. My mother made my being late (My Aunt was all ready in bed) The end of the world as we know it and put on this guilt trip on me,   telling me how disspointed she was... .and was looking forward to this all day... .  No,  Everything is in the moment with my Aunt. She has serious brain damage. Not to discard the importance of spending time with her at all! But for Pete's sake mother of mine. Get A Grip!

                                      What really angers me is the message I got that from my father,  this lecture of how I should have called, (you know a shaming little girl lecture) with him indicating to me that THIS  is what they were really mad about because they were worried about me. This is a lie! They said nothing like this of the sort to me. No...   I was being yelled at for being late and inconsiderate and being a selfish person who only thinks about her self. And every time I tried to explain to my mother that I got lost and I would have made it if this hadnt have happened and I was sorry,  I got ran over by both of them yelling at me and not listening to a word I said. 

                                        My father is lost.  When my sister was in her teens bullying me,  that was the time he should have stepped in and believed me and set my sister straight with her lies and pushing me around.                   , but Noo, my sister can do no wrong.  excuse my French, but this is such a crock of sheete.  The story all ways gets changed by her to cover up her problems so she can look good and justified in everything and I can look bad.


                     +This is where my parents have failed in parenting.  My mother's relationship with my sister isnt healthy.  The two have lived together I guess for 20 years.  Ya!  isnt that something. Co-dependancy. My father has a new wife in Califorina. They have not only ganged up on me but my brother too big time!  So at least in this respect Im not totally alone.  This late thing wasnt even my sister's issue,  but she joined in quick enough with my mom like two vicious rapid dogs.  I am not exagerating. It was unreal. 

                           I was wondering if maybe going to an Al anon meeting might help. My mother drinks too much wine and starts early in the morning quite often/ and my father told me never to talk to her about anything serious especially argue during the the evening time. This is when she flips.  Shes only done it 3 times so far, but that's enough and what I mean by this is her personality changes and she gets really mean and angry! This is not the mother I remember growing up with. Its a severe change and its scary. I dont know if this is a form of BPD yet. I dont know for sure, the same with my sister.  -Something is wrong with her, if you dissagree on something with her she comes at you, literally,  right up to your face and bombards you, you cant finish a sentence,  give that up.

     I think the more I seek help through as many avenues as possible, the clearer this picture will become. The more I keep striving forward reaching out to other people and doing things that I enjoy,  like you said, it will get better. I just wants things to settle down and have some predictability.  Im learning to be patient with myself and to calm down with I get over whelmed. I have so many things I need and want to do. Im taking care of 5 horses which isnt a small thing is it? Dont get me started on the cat count her and the two obnoxious dogs in the kitchen. Getting back into my art will help.  Im going to a picture spree on all the animals here. That should be fun.

[Linda Maria]

hi goingtostopthis!  Good to hear you sound very rational about the situation - you can see it very clearly.  Doesn't make it any easier I know.  I was very much where you are up to a few months ago - I have one brilliant friend who really understood, as she has an uNPD sister who put her through hell for a few years, so she totally gets it.  She was there for me big time.  I have other less close friends who have been told stories by my uBPDsis and rang me to try to work out what was going on.  Although they could see there was something that didn't stack up, they clearly felt uncomfortable, and afterwards I always felt bad - like I'd just been b___ing about my sister - but all I'd said was the truth about what she'd said and done.  But after that I would only talk to people who really understood.  I have a close family friend who also loves my sister - she has known us both all our lives, and she now gets the situation, but is clearly not comfortable talking about it, because she doesn't know what to do to help.  So we don't talk about it.  So it is complex - I've learned not to expect most people to understand, and to realise that most people don't want to know too much.  It's hard at first because you want to explain why their words and deeds don't make sense, how you couldn't have done what you've been accused of, and why would you etc. etc. but most people just cannot comprehend it, unless they've been through something similar.  I am sorry that it has affected your relationship with your dad - that is hard.  I imagine he has been so worn down by it that he just follows the line of least resistance, and doesn't want to get involved, take sides etc. but you do need support when you go through something like this.  That's why this board is so good - I've never needed to vent so much in my life!  Hang in there and keep posting and I wish you well.

[goingtostopthis]

Thanks Linda,


                  Things have calm down now a bit and I hope it stays like this. I still find myself observing my sister and wondering where she gets the logic for some of the things she does around here. She has been here helping out with my Aunts farm for the last two years and today she didnt know which way the outside faucet went to turn on the water. Same thing with feeding the older horses here.  She wrote out this detailed plan for friends to feed them when she left to come to Oklahoma to help me move. When I got here she had to have everything be done an exact way. She even went so far as to learn how to measure a horse to gage its weight so she would know how much to feed them.  I was impressed.  Yet,  we went to the feed store together because she has to pay and she didnt know what brand to buy or how often she needed to buy grain. This is something you just get to know by how much you buy and how long it takes for the horses to eat it all,by how much you feed them etc. .  I went to the feed store for my horses at my old home once a week.It was every Monday unless I bought more.  My sister didnt have a clue which was such a contradiction to the way she presented herself when I got here.  Like she knew it ALL and was on top of it All.  She didnt know what brand to buy?    I was nice and helpful to her but scratching my head when she wasnt looking. 

                        I guess she's been putting on some airs when I got here. Or setting up an illusionary intimidating self image of herself to me. Im getting used to this. Its bothering me less and less now.  I wonder about it though. I wonder about what the truth is with things here. My father has set her out to be such a martyr who deserves acculades for being the selfless mother Mary who has sacrificed herself with in the care of my Aunt,her farm and her finances.     

                        I cant prove this,but it looks like my mother has been the one taking care of my Aunt, doing everything from dressing her, taking her to the bathroom, bathing her, you know full care and that "is" tough!  When Im there my sister is all ways bussy doing something else, bossing my mom around for starters, and leaving a lot to do these mysterious errands all the time. Then when she comes over here to walk the dogs,  she takes a doggie bag with her to pick up after them when she is walking in the horse field. The horse field is huge! why?  I dont get this. There's horse manuer here and there, whats the difference. and the dogs will go in the trees and she'll still pick it up like she's at a Public Park.  There are at least 78 acres here.      Dont ask me,  but when she done she will sit on the couch in the living room where the dogs are on her phone or watching Dog TV.  Some times for up to an hour like she doesnt have anything else better to do.  Its like she doesnt want to go home. 

                  So the truth, the truth , the truth.   What's the truth.    I still dont think it's HER money she has in these two accounts.  Its my aunts, but shes living off it and of course she paid off a 30,000 credit card bill which was incurd to that amount way before my aunt became ill. And there was no legal will of any kind with her name on it.   Im not mad anymore. I dont feel anything. I just think its wierd how she emphasizes that it's "HER"... .money.   Like she has been working for it for the last 15 years, blood, sweat and tears money.  not that amount!  sorry.   She has no right to judge me anymore, I know this much.     She doesnt want to get a job, she wants to putzy around my Aunts church and feel that if it wasnt for her the congregation would be lost.  If it wasnt for her.  If it wasnt for her.   This is her complex.  She's HAD... .too do it all,  ohhh woe,... as she put her hand up to her fore head., everything is on her back.    >>  Its not.  She's created this reality, this story, more like it, on purpose.   She hasnt HAD... .to do anything. The church is for sell. She a minister through my Aunt who was, and Im sorry.  I just cant listen to her give a sermon,  Cant do it.  no,  nada,,  not happening.   My Aunt brained washed her into martyring herself. She used to be such a good artist, now all her art stuff sits on dusty shelves in this huge Morton building. I really have a issue over the fact that shes a minister in reference to how she has treated me.

[Linda Maria]

Hi goingtostopthis!  There are some echoes of your situation with things I noticed in my uBPDsis - and this was long before I ever thought about BPD.  My sis could never cope with living on her own, although she owns her own house not far from my Mum's house.  So since my father died 19 years ago, when she was still living with them, although she already had her house then, she continued to live at my Mum's off and on.  She lived there for the last 4 years, up till my Mum died last year, and the house was sold just 2 weeks ago.  I never had a problem about it, it was her choice.  But it used to annoy me that she made out to people that she had to live there because she was caring for my Mum.  She wasn't doing anything of the sort!  In fact she was a bit of a bully the last couple of years, and it's only since she turned on me I have realised it was probably quite unpleasant for my Mum a lot of the time.  My Mum used to come up to us for the weekend every 4 weeks or so (we're only an hour away) so I saw a fair bit of her, and we spoke most days.  So I was also a big part of her life, and I knew the truth.  But uBPDsis would go on about how difficult Mum was, and how she was trapped and had to do all this stuff, and it just wasn't true.  I always said to her, I can understand it's not easy living with Mum, why don't you move back to your house?  It's only a 10 minute drive away, you can still pop round most days to see her.  But she wouldn't.  Once my Mum died, the story escalated into how for the last 19 years since my Dad died, she had basically sacrificed her life and career to look after my Mum!  This was so far from the truth.  My Mum, until the last 18 months was very independent, she drove her car, her mind was fine, she managed very well.  My sis was in a couple of relationships, where she lived with the boyfriend, so for those years she wasn't around that much.  Then when it went wrong, she moved back to her house, but there would always be some problem - her heating didn't work etc. so then she would move in with my Mum, in fact the last time 4 years ago, she moved into my old bedroom which was a bit odd, but then she never left.  My Mum didn't mind her being there, but I did get sick of her pretending she lived at her own house to people who didn't know her so well, but with people who knew she lived there, she would always moan about my Mum.  She has always been weird about money as well - don't even get me started on that!  I think that's why she turned on me so badly after my Mum died - there was a substantial inheritance to be shared - even though the will was 50/50, so in fact it was very clear, there was never any chance of either of us screwing the other one over because we did it through a solicitor, she made it unbelievably hard, and in fact made several attempts to stop me getting an equal share of the money.  It ended up with her threatening to sue the solicitor because she said they were favouring me!  Because her plan didn't work, but it could never have worked, and she just couldn't accept it.  So it was all their fault of course!  So it is complex, because on one hand, I think she has BPD, and to some extent can't help the behaviour.  On the other hand, much of the stuff she has done has been very deliberate and calculated to damage me to the maximum and deprive me of a substantial part of my inheritance, but of course it could never work because solicitors aren't stupid, so she has made herself look really bad (but of course she can't see that because she thinks she is so much cleverer than the rest of us), she has wasted so much of both our time and money, and it's all been for nothing, unless all she ever wanted was me and my children out of her life, in which case she could have just told me that and saved us both a lot of trouble!  So while I think she has BPD - the scale of the malice and spite is quite scary.  But hey - what doesn't kill you makes you stronger!  I hope! 

[bubblegirl]

So the truth, the truth , the truth.   What's the truth.    I still dont think it's HER money she has in these two accounts.  Its my aunts, but shes living off it and of course she paid off a 30,000 credit card bill which was incurd to that amount way before my aunt became ill. And there was no legal will of any kind with her name on it.   Im not mad anymore. I dont feel anything. I just think its wierd how she emphasizes that it's "HER"... .money.   Like she has been working for it for the last 15 years, blood, sweat and tears money.  not that amount!  sorry. 

I just want to point out in case you're not aware: what you're describing sounds like it could be elder or dependent abuse.  I don't know what country you're in, but try googling that phrase and seeing what comes up in your local laws.  If your aunt qualifies as dependent or an elder, then you do have the choice to make an anonymous report to protect her. 

[goingtostopthis]

Hi goingtostopthis!  There are some echoes of your situation with things I noticed in my uBPDsis - and this was long before I ever thought about BPD.  My sis could never cope with living on her own, although she owns her own house not far from my Mum's house.  So since my father died 19 years ago, when she was still living with them, although she already had her house then, she continued to live at my Mum's off and on.  She lived there for the last 4 years, up till my Mum died last year, and the house was sold just 2 weeks ago.  I never had a problem about it, it was her choice.  But it used to annoy me that she made out to people that she had to live there because she was caring for my Mum.  She wasn't doing anything of the sort!  In fact she was a bit of a bully the last couple of years, and it's only since she turned on me I have realised it was probably quite unpleasant for my Mum a lot of the time.  My Mum used to come up to us for the weekend every 4 weeks or so (we're only an hour away) so I saw a fair bit of her, and we spoke most days.  So I was also a big part of her life, and I knew the truth.  But uBPDsis would go on about how difficult Mum was, and how she was trapped and had to do all this stuff, and it just wasn't true.  I always said to her, I can understand it's not easy living with Mum, why don't you move back to your house?  It's only a 10 minute drive away, you can still pop round most days to see her.  But she wouldn't.  Once my Mum died, the story escalated into how for the last 19 years since my Dad died, she had basically sacrificed her life and career to look after my Mum!  This was so far from the truth.  My Mum, until the last 18 months was very independent, she drove her car, her mind was fine, she managed very well.  My sis was in a couple of relationships, where she lived with the boyfriend, so for those years she wasn't around that much.  Then when it went wrong, she moved back to her house, but there would always be some problem - her heating didn't work etc. so then she would move in with my Mum, in fact the last time 4 years ago, she moved into my old bedroom which was a bit odd, but then she never left.  My Mum didn't mind her being there, but I did get sick of her pretending she lived at her own house to people who didn't know her so well, but with people who knew she lived there, she would always moan about my Mum.  She has always been weird about money as well - don't even get me started on that!  I think that's why she turned on me so badly after my Mum died - there was a substantial inheritance to be shared - even though the will was 50/50, so in fact it was very clear, there was never any chance of either of us screwing the other one over because we did it through a solicitor, she made it unbelievably hard, and in fact made several attempts to stop me getting an equal share of the money.  It ended up with her threatening to sue the solicitor because she said they were favouring me!  Because her plan didn't work, but it could never have worked, and she just couldn't accept it.  So it was all their fault of course!  So it is complex, because on one hand, I think she has BPD, and to some extent can't help the behaviour.  On the other hand, much of the stuff she has done has been very deliberate and calculated to damage me to the maximum and deprive me of a substantial part of my inheritance, but of course it could never work because solicitors aren't stupid, so she has made herself look really bad (but of course she can't see that because she thinks she is so much cleverer than the rest of us), she has wasted so much of both our time and money, and it's all been for nothing, unless all she ever wanted was me and my children out of her life, in which case she could have just told me that and saved us both a lot of trouble!  So while I think she has BPD - the scale of the malice and spite is quite scary.  But hey - what doesn't kill you makes you stronger!  I hope! 

                                  That is true, what doesnt kill you only makes you stronger. Im learning how to cope because I dont have any other choice at this time. I painted my bathroom blue. I didnt tell any of them. There's no reason why I should have to. I go in there and close the door and there I am in my little emotionally safe place. Everything I have in there, my pictures on the wall etc. have come to life in contrast to the walls. Its amazing how a change like that can have an effect on your feelings. It grounds me and gives my things which are an exstension of me, value.  My bedroom is next.  Ive decided,  iM going to paint the whole world from here after.  (  :   

              Its wild how the negative effects of my mom and sister have really effected my sense of personal value. Ive been doubtful at times wondering if it's just me doing this to myself in my head ,  but I know better now. No, its subtle and not so subtle things theyve been doing since the beginning. My strength comes in when I can identify these shadows in my head . What has happened is that Ive been so busy being on the defensive that its hard for me to function like I used to on my own before I moved here. Its hard for me to focus on a task for a long period of time. Its like i have an attention defecite. Like I never know when my sister is going to drive up here so there is all ways a part of me on the look out. Shes been nice since that last episode with my mom but Ill never trust her. 

   Its funny,  but she too, moved in with my mom after her divorse.   Her husband  blamed it out right on my mom. He yelled at her for interfering.  And she did!  He was right.  My sister could have worked it out but she had my mom supporting and interjecting hatefulness on him which made my sister feel totally justified.  And the two ganged up on him together like they have me and my brother.  This truth gives me strength. Im all right and a champion in my own right for taking on these two messed up ladies.  Yes,   messed up and my bathroom is blue so there!   

  I know Im on the right track as far as progress goes and adapting myself to living here. My sister still doesnt show any appreciation for all the work Ive done so far and the caring of these animals. Not one thank you. Of all the nights in the past when I would sit and talk with her on the phone comforting her when she was going out of her mind with all the cats and the horses she had to take care of by herself. Now that Im here,  who cares.  All ive gotten is the most f88k uped head of my life by her. She's a women of God whose controlling. lolololol 

                         Being strong is realizing,  so she doesnt care to thank you,  that's her problem.  Im renaming all the cats behind her back.    They have a reality with her and a REALITY with me, because I feed them now and see them 24/7.  I can tell them secrets and they will never tell.   and oh they tell me a lot about what the truth has been before ive gotten here.  Its ok, is what they say,  dont worry.  we thank you. ( :           

[goingtostopthis]

So the truth, the truth , the truth.   What's the truth.    I still dont think it's HER money she has in these two accounts.  Its my aunts, but shes living off it and of course she paid off a 30,000 credit card bill which was incurd to that amount way before my aunt became ill. And there was no legal will of any kind with her name on it.   Im not mad anymore. I dont feel anything. I just think its wierd how she emphasizes that it's "HER"... .money.   Like she has been working for it for the last 15 years, blood, sweat and tears money.  not that amount!  sorry. 

I just want to point out in case you're not aware: what you're describing sounds like it could be elder or dependent abuse.  I don't know what country you're in, but try googling that phrase and seeing what comes up in your local laws.  If your aunt qualifies as dependent or an elder, then you do have the choice to make an anonymous report to protect her. 

Bubblegirl,

                    I hear what youre saying. At this point Im not in the position to do any kind of reporting. I need more time.  I dont think there is anything I can do about this money thing. I think my sister has brain washed herself, and the thing is , I dont want to be misunderstood. I dont want this money and I certainly dont want this to become a sibling war over property. I dont have a leg to stand on anyways. They both (mom and sister) had the audacity to tell me that my Aunts word of mouth to me was worthless because she told everybody or anybody that they could have this place after she is gone. I think it was more like 2 other people. She was a minister and had a habit of giving away her money to all most anyone who was in debt or needed a new car or what ever. She really did want me to have part ownership of this place I remember. She bought an Oldenburg mare for me and told me I could have her, all I had to do was move up there. Well,   the mare was still here for awhile and even my mother after I asked told me I could still have her and that she was mine.  Two months before I made my big move here,  my sister sold her with out even asking me. I dont want to get started on this because my mother had reasurred me many times that, Oh shes all right, knowing full well how I was looking forward to training this horse for Dressage. She was my horse and they knew it but they didnt care, and Im the selfish one. This is to the extent of how they both think they can do what ever they F**-in want and I'll just have to go along with it because Im the youngest and how my needs or feelings dont really count.

               I am worried, putting myself aside, about what is going on with my mom in the way she is taking care of my Aunt. I realize Im just little insignificant voice on this forum and this probably wont be seen by many,  but I have to say that its looks to me like my mom is on the line to being abusive verbally and physically to my Aunt.

               I saw it. I was right there in the room and that wasnt the first time.   My mom keeps losing her temper with her. My Aunt wouldnt get on the bed in the right place so she could lay down and hit the pillows in the right place. She has demensia. She cant learn anymore and responds slowly, if at all. My mother grabbed! her ankles and whipped her over onto the bed. I thought I was dreaming, wishing I was. I was like: Mom! put your arms under neith her knees and pivot her over that way!  She totally ignored me and continued b___ing at her."Oh I cant believe this,  you are such a pain in the ass!"  and she just goes on and on and on like that to her.  When we eat dinner , my Aunt will want a drink of water, and my mother will get up grumbling under her breath, "oh you are such a pain in the ass. etc etc."  and she does it in such an ugly way,  mean! ya!  really mean like.< like my Aunt is "personally" affending her on purpose!  She's not there anymore, she doesnt know what she is doing! and my mother is a nurse? and doesnt know this?  The hatred I see coming from my mother to her is really too much for me to handle, and as we know she has turned this on me too.

               I cant tell this to my father. He will say, oh shes under ALOT of strain taking care of that women. TRUE,  she is,  and this is why Im here now, helping out in as many ways as I can.  I take over for my mom every time Im over for dinner. The last time, I had to tell her to leave the room,  but then she had to come back, and practically threw her across the bed by her ankles! I was so shocked! I was like: What the hell?  It doesnt matter if Im here or not. I have to take care of the animals at this farm. My sister is a liar. Im sorry. Im angry.  Im angry because the person in full care of my Aunt is not my sister, not one bit,  it's been my mother.   My sister has put on such a show to everyone as being the one who has had to do EVERYTHING! for my Aunt.  The only break my mother gets is when she takes my Aunt to this Old Folks Center for the 3 times a week. Now, they come to learn she's been sleeping there all day and so my sister decides ,  She's not going anymore.  Now my mother is going to have her 24/7.,no breaks.

   She isnt going to talk to the people there and have a change made, noo.  She wants to save HER  money.

                    I have an appointment with a therapist in December. Thank God!   What am I suppose to say when my mom tells me my Aunt has been hitting her. Oh she's the bad person... Bad Aunty Bad Aunty ... .My question now, that I have been seeing the things I have is"  What is my mom doing which is causing my Aunt to hit "her"?  This women needs to be in a home, but cant get Insurance because she owns all this property and my mom and sister refuse to sell it, so there's the story.  And Im suppose to come galloping in and save the whole frickin Day?

                         One thing for sure. Im going to keep a close on my mom and find out for sure, what exactly is my sister doing. Is she helping? like she says she does? I dont have a camera over there you know. I wish I did, a  camera with sound.  My mother is drinking all the time too, wine city... .   this is when she gets mean, or has at me when she has.  But never fear World, God or who ever is listening. If I see any more bad treatment like I did the other night towards my Aunt,  I "will" take action.  I dont care how this is going to be justified with in my family. Abuse is abuse, even if the abuser is being abused too.         

              Yes, we have a problem Houston.     

[goingtostopthis]

Thank you all for your help and your kind words.


                                                         I am so frustrated right now because I cant see this therapist until the 16th of this month and the fact of the matter is,  I need to see this person right now!  Its just the way it is,  when you make an appointment with a new person you have to wait for them to fit you in and its usually about a month. A lot of help that is when you need the help when you make the appointment.  

                                            I really do need reality checks and I really appreciate those of you who have helped me out in this department.  Everything has been such a struggle. I think a struggle against depression more then anything. Im not really sad,  I just have a hard time sometimes getting motivated to do anything. I guess thats depression. I find myself sitting in front of my computer on line just doing distractive stuff that comforts me in one way or another. Aside from this I do things in spurts  and when I get going I really do get things done. When I think about it I realize I really "have" been progressing very well.

                                       Ive been thinking about boudaries and I get confused as to what a boundary is. Early on there was a problem with my sister where , when she decided she wanted to do something where she needed my help or wanted to do something, she would just show up and expect me to just go along with no warning or pre planning.

It was really upsetting me so my father's wife got involved trying to be a mediator between us and suggested that my sister call me ahead of and set a day so I would know. So this has been working good so far, except today out of know where,  she comes over and wants me to drive 40 minutes with her to the landfill. She said she called me like 10 minutes before she came over,  but that's not planning ahead.

                                        I was busy working on my resume which I had to rewrite and submit on line.  I did not want to stop in the middle of this.  So,  would you say this planning ahead thing is a form of a boundary,  and would you say she tried to try me on breaking  this boundary today?    I told her no and explained my resume situation and she acted ok with it,  but I still walked away feeling uncomfortable and off center.