My wife claims low libido

[Proteus]

Help. My marriage has been going downhill for the last year. My wife with BPD is continuously claiming low libido. I regard myself as a regular man so have regular intimacy needs and regard sex once a week to 10 days to be normal. For the last year the frequency has dropped progressively and now it is like she is only able to function sexually once a month and even then with great effort but yet when we are in the moment she appears to be quite normal and passionate.

Can someone advise me? This is causing great problems in our marriage and I am afraid that we are heading for a painful breakup if the matter continues to deteriorate as it has been in recent months.

She totally denies that she has BPD and is unwell, yet she once admitted to me that she was diagnosed as having BPD.

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[sadeyes]

Many of us find sexual/intimacy issues with our spouses, but it could be a physical issue also. How old is your wife? Could she be facing some hormonal issues? This can start happening as young as 30's

[Proteus]

she is 37

she has been on antidepressants for years but this cant explain her low libido completely as in the beginning she was very exciting

[Haye]

Menopause or perimenopause can cause decrease in libido. So can many other things.

Is she going through a therapy for example? They could be digging out some stuff that is causing a change in her behaviour for a while. You wrote that you have sex, but it seems to come with great effort... .I'm sorry, but it doesn't sound too good to me. I hope you don't seem to her as to be pushing her to have sex? I mean even if you are not making an issue at all, anyone (BPD or not), can be very easily offended/hurt/feel to be blackmailed to have sex. Then again some cases i've read here the pwBPD has been deliberately witholding sex and using it as a very mean tool to achieve something.

It's a very complicated thing, relationships and sex life. Even without BPD in the mix... .Partner's lack of desire hurts most of people in a very deep level; one starts to feel unwanted and even rejected and that's really hard to deal with.  It's natural, but might make the more sensitive and (deep down caring) partner very upset. Being unable to meet your needs your wife might fear you'll end up dumping her, which could make her feel worse.

Talking to a family counselor might help, but it might also add to her feelings of being inadequate, wrong/bad/etc (which i've understood most BPD feel deep down).

[Grey Kitty]

Proteus,

First, hello and welcome! You will find a lot of great support here.

Second, I'd like to address the basic conflict. Many couples have a conflict that one partner has higher libido than the other. Please understand that this does not make either partner right or wrong. Both partners have valid needs and desires. Resolving this conflict in a way which feels reasonable and fair to both parties is tricky in any relationship. Especially because talking about sex is difficult for most of us, and so is asking directly for what we want.

In addition, if your partner's libido changes, it could be a bunch of things. Some medical/physical. Some relating to other conflicts in your relationship. (I have about zero desire for sex with my wife at times when I can barely have a civil conversation with her, for example.)

From a medical point of view, low libido isn't itself a problem. It is only a problem if it is causing distress to the person having the low libido.

So this is already complicated as it is... .and... .

Third, with BPD, this issue of your wife having lower libido than you do can become all kinds of toxic fights and control battles.

Are you willing to share the details when you try to initiate sex with your wife? Or any times where she tries to initiate sex (if she does)?

[Proteus]

some quick replies. She I believe really believes that she is not well psychically and at other times an array of unclear physical problems crops up, all contributing to her not having any libido. I however at times get the feeling that she is playing a very elaborate trick on me but I can never prove my point to her and I will have patience for long periods in the hope that I choose the right moment to try my luck so to speak. Its become more frequent that she disappoints me and refuses to make love and these days it often results in conflict. Sometimes it feels like I am in a big catch 22 situation like a bad dream from which I cant wake up.

And then when I behave good or if she is ready she will invite me to make love. Which is always good and fulfilling. The awful part is that she at times goes wacky on me and would become aggressive and very worked up if I just unconsciously am touching her. And she would say I cant stand being touched now. But yet when we are making love she cant stop saying how much she loves me touching her intimately, yet when I in normal times just have some physical contact with her she treats me as if I am radio-active waste.

[cult]

I have no answers but just want to share that I am in a similar situation with my uBPDw.  I feel I am making it worse by making it clear that I want sex way more often than she does. She tells me she feels pressured into being sexual when she doesn't really want to, but isn't willing to talk about it, work on it, etc.  We are newlyweds which makes it even more painful; I understand a dropoff after a certain amount of time but for us to be having this particular problem so early on is quite concerning to me. I agree with others that there are a lot of issues involved in this type of situation and that it is a very delicate topic in any relationship, particularly so when one partner is disordered and the other has  !

I feel your pain and we are far from alone, seems like high vs low desire issues are very common in most marriages and long term relationships.

Hang in there my friend.

[Grey Kitty]

Remember... .your partner owns their body, you don't. Even if you are married. It is NOT right to have sex with someone without their consent. I don't mean signing a release form here, or asking a legalistic question... .if they are expressing interest or participating eagerly, that is clear consent. If you are getting mixed messages (words, feelings, actions don't match), it is time to stop and ask some clarifying questions, if only "Are you enjoying this?"

This is a baseline ethical position. (Consent happens to be very important to me personally!) I don't see any indication that anybody in this thread has a problem living up to it.

Its become more frequent that she disappoints me and refuses to make love and these days it often results in conflict.

Your desire to make love is valid. So is her right to decline.

It is her body, and her right to do with it what she chooses, for her own reasons, no matter how good or bad her reasons are. She also has no obligation to tell you her reasons, or justify them to you. YOU have the obligation to honor her wishes with her body.

Thinking that she "owes" it to you is just going to send you down a toxic rabbit hole. I don't know if you are there, but climb back out of that one if you have gone down there.

... .However... .even if you get this right... .there still is conflict in this situation.

How you handle your end of the conflict will make a big difference in the situation, for better or for worse.

If you give us a description of how the conflict plays out, I'd be happy to offer suggestions on things you could do to improve the situation for yourself.

[Cat Familiar]

This is such a difficult issue. It's just a given that partners will have different needs for sex.

I can only speak from my perspective as a woman, but I'm guessing that for more women than men, when a relationship gets dysfunctional, desire extinguishes. From talking with my female friends, it seems that emotional harmony is more of a prerequisite for them than their husbands in order to want sex.

My uBPDh seems to be an exception to this rule. The problem for us is that both of us still harbor anger and mistrust and neither wants to initiate intimacy. I think it's likely that I'll have to make the first move to change this, but it's going to take me a while to forgive all the bad BPD acting out.

[Indyan]

I've read many topics about BPD and sex, and it's never simple.

My BPD was open to sex before you settled together (the first 3 months or so). Then it quickly went down to once a month, sometimes several days in a row, and then nothing for a few weeks.

If I tried to initiate intimacy (not only sex), he would reject me. I'm very respectful of people's body and would never insist or make a remark, but I didn't find the rejection normal in a loving couple.

He would be the one who decided when it was the moment for sex. He'd always say "we should make love more often... ." but back to nothingness again.

Now that he's been away for months, I find this sick 

[ColdEthyl]

Oh yes... .sex and BPD. One of my first posts here. When my dBPDh and I first got together, it was hot and heavy. Now, 5 years into the marriage it's trickled down to once a month, if not longer. He claims LOW T, but doesn't want to go to a doctor for it. I think it might be partially Low T, because when we do talk about it (very touchy subject, btw) his go-to argument is "Women cannot understand because your parts always work for sex"

With that being said, he has expressed how bad he feels about it, how he misses the physical relationship, so I believe what happens with BPDers is in play here, IE the self-hatred, self-esteem issues, and afraid to try due to 'failure'. No amount of me telling him what I think will change what HE thinks.

So currently we are at an impasse.

[workinprogress]

Remember... .your partner owns their body, you don't. Even if you are married. It is NOT right to have sex with someone without their consent. I don't mean signing a release form here, or asking a legalistic question... .if they are expressing interest or participating eagerly, that is clear consent. If you are getting mixed messages (words, feelings, actions don't match), it is time to stop and ask some clarifying questions, if only "Are you enjoying this?"

This is a baseline ethical position. (Consent happens to be very important to me personally!) I don't see any indication that anybody in this thread has a problem living up to it.

Its become more frequent that she disappoints me and refuses to make love and these days it often results in conflict.

Your desire to make love is valid. So is her right to decline.

It is her body, and her right to do with it what she chooses, for her own reasons, no matter how good or bad her reasons are. She also has no obligation to tell you her reasons, or justify them to you. YOU have the obligation to honor her wishes with her body.

Thinking that she "owes" it to you is just going to send you down a toxic rabbit hole. I don't know if you are there, but climb back out of that one if you have gone down there.

... .However... .even if you get this right... .there still is conflict in this situation.

How you handle your end of the conflict will make a big difference in the situation, for better or for worse.

If you give us a description of how the conflict plays out, I'd be happy to offer suggestions on things you could do to improve the situation for yourself.

So, if she refuses her body does he have the right to take his body and use it with someone else?

[vortex of confusion]

So, if she refuses her body does he have the right to take his body and use it with someone else?

No, not unless it is something that they both agree to do. Doing it without the partner's consent is wrong.

My situation was a little different. After we got married, my husband's interest in me sexually seemed to fall off the map. We had only been married a couple of days and I woke up to him looking at porn and taking care of himself. Since he was pleasuring himself, that was supposed to be okay. I never understood why he would choose to pleasure himself when he had a very eager new bride that was very willing and able to take care of his needs.

[Grey Kitty]

So, if she refuses her body does he have the right to take his body and use it with someone else?

No. Her choice not to consent sex with him doesn't give him ANY rights.

What you describe sounds to me like cheating when stated that way. He doesn't have the RIGHT to do that, although he does have the ABILITY to do that.

In addition, her choice not to grant consent doesn't take away any (other) rights he already has.

He does have the right to end the r/s, because he wants one that includes sex. (or more sex.)

He also has the right to try negotiating a non-monogamous relationship. This can work. It is difficult to manage. Starting it by cheating first, then trying to make everything right after is well ... .more difficult to manage.

[workinprogress]

I hope I didn't sound too challenging with my question.

These BPD's sure have a way of messing things up.

[mywifecrazy]

I hate to bring this up but when I read Low Libido my jaw dropped.

Is it possible that she has you painted black and is having an affair?

I hope it's not the case and I only mention it because that's what my uBPDxw used as an excuse with me. I knew something was wrong because we weren't being physical anymore. She gave me some BS story about how she just doesn't like being touched physically and I even witnessed her recoiling when my son then 12 would try to hug her... .An act? I don't know. She had me so convinced I even researched it online and found out that a lot of women actually go through this and the couples end up in a sexless marriage. In my case It was all lies, smoke and mirrors, manipulation by a master DECEIVER  . She even tried to convince me to go ahead and have sex outside of the marriage because of her... .LOW LIBIDO. I almost did it too but at the last minute I bailed out because all I could think about was that I was betraying her and the kids. I informed her that my love for her was based on more than sex and that I would just have to deal with it because I loved her. I even suggested that we go to counseling together. She told me she didn't want to go to counseling because I would find out how F¥CKED up she is. One of the many    I ignored in my 20yr r/s with her!

Imagine my surprise when I found her in bed with the neighbor! One of the first things I said to her when We had a chance to talk was... ."So, I guess you found your Libido huh" She still couldn't admit that it was all an elaborate scam on her part and kept to the lies as only a BPD can.

Sorry, I hope this is not your situation. I only share my story with you because you never know!

Good Luck,

MWC... . 

[workinprogress]

I hate to bring this up but when I read Low Libido my jaw dropped.

Is it possible that she has you painted black and is having an affair?

I hope it's not the case and I only mention it because that's what my uBPDxw used as an excuse with me. I knew something was wrong because we weren't being physical anymore. She gave me some BS story about how she just doesn't like being touched physically and I even witnessed her recoiling when my son then 12 would try to hug her... .An act? I don't know. She had me so convinced I even researched it online and found out that a lot of women actually go through this and the couples end up in a sexless marriage. In my case It was all lies, smoke and mirrors, manipulation by a master DECEIVER  . She even tried to convince me to go ahead and have sex outside of the marriage because of her... .LOW LIBIDO. I almost did it too but at the last minute I bailed out because all I could think about was that I was betraying her and the kids. I informed her that my love for her was based on more than sex and that I would just have to deal with it because I loved her. I even suggested that we go to counseling together. She told me she didn't want to go to counseling because I would find out how F¥CKED up she is. One of the many    I ignored in my 20yr r/s with her!

Imagine my surprise when I found her in bed with the neighbor! One of the first things I said to her when We had a chance to talk was... ."So, I guess you found your Libido huh" She still couldn't admit that it was all an elaborate scam on her part and kept to the lies as only a BPD can.

Sorry, I hope this is not your situation. I only share my story with you because you never know!

Good Luck,

MWC... . 

Mywifecrazy, I can't help but think of my situation when you told your story.  Soon after our sex life dried up I thought something was amiss.  I couldn't put my finger on it, but I really suspected someone else. 

I talked to her about our love life and she too, told me to get it somewhere else, and that money is what mattered.  Apparently, I didn't make enough money for her to have sex with me.

Then, I heard some stuff about her "jokingly" making sexual propositions to other guys.  It's funny, she would recoil when I touched her or she would get angry when I brought up sex.

Yet, she could openly "joke" about it with everyone else.

[Indyan]

My BPD was open to sex before you settled together (the first 3 months or so).

I meant "before WE settled down together" ... . 

[Indyan]

We had only been married a couple of days and I woke up to him looking at porn and taking care of himself. Since he was pleasuring himself, that was supposed to be okay. I never understood why he would choose to pleasure himself when he had a very eager new bride that was very willing and able to take care of his needs.

Oh lord, I'm sorry that you had to experience this, I would have felt rejected and disgusted   

[Moselle]

Then again some cases i've read here the pwBPD has been deliberately witholding sex and using it as a very mean tool to achieve something.

My wife is doing just this. In fact i just posted a thread today with this as the topic. What do I do? I'm trying to just ignore it. Her libido is just fine, so I'm not sure how long she will last, or if she will try someone else to satisfy it. I guess at the end of the day. It's her body and she chooses what she chooses.

Since I stopped the shouting and arguing by walking away, she has gone to silent treatment and with holding sex as her manipulations of choice.

[Grey Kitty]

Yup. Those games are unfair and SUCK.     

Those games don't change that it is her body and her right to do with it what she chooses, for her own reasons, good, bad, or none at all.

[Proteus]

Thanks everyone for your contributions to the thread I started. This is very hard for me. I dont even feel much to get into this discussion as I am trying so hard to please her in the hope that she will be intimate with me and allow lovemaking. The worst for me is the feeling of rejection and the fact that she has no remorse, its just the way things are and I have to get over it. And if I get emotional, angry of protest against her unfairness, I get punished for even longer. Now I am waiting on her to be ready to make love for a month. This is the longest period ever between lovemaking since we are together and I am really not sure how this will play out except that it will become even worse. I have started seeing a therapist who completely understands my BPD spouse's manipulativeness and control. Sometime I feel that I will go crazy with all this tension and I am starting to be very unhappy.

[vortex of confusion]

Thanks everyone for your contributions to the thread I started. This is very hard for me. I dont even feel much to get into this discussion as I am trying so hard to please her in the hope that she will be intimate with me and allow lovemaking.

Be careful with this! You need to try to stop focusing on pleasing her so much. I have been married for 16.5 years and I got into the pattern of trying to please my husband and take care of his needs in the hope that he would reciprocate. It created a pattern where I never felt like I could do enough. It created a pattern where I was putting all of my energy into pleasing him and was neglecting myself.

The worst for me is the feeling of rejection and the fact that she has no remorse, its just the way things are and I have to get over it. And if I get emotional, angry of protest against her unfairness, I get punished for even longer. Now I am waiting on her to be ready to make love for a month. This is the longest period ever between lovemaking since we are together and I am really not sure how this will play out except that it will become even worse. I have started seeing a therapist who completely understands my BPD spouse's manipulativeness and control. Sometime I feel that I will go crazy with all this tension and I am starting to be very unhappy.

I know how difficult it is to deal with those feelings of rejection. Even when you know that is how things are, it doesn't make it any easier to accept. It doesn't make it any easier to feel like the one person that you want and love is turning away from you. It really does a number on one's self esteem.

Is there any way that you can take the focus off of sex? Can you find other healthy things to do to work out those frustrations? I will go bake cookies or rearrange the house or find some other positive activity to occupy my mind. If you can go to a gym or take a walk or find some other physical activity, that sometimes help relieve some of the tension. Find ways to focus on you.

[MissyM]

Be careful with this! You need to try to stop focusing on pleasing her so much. I have been married for 16.5 years and I got into the pattern of trying to please my husband and take care of his needs in the hope that he would reciprocate. It created a pattern where I never felt like I could do enough. It created a pattern where I was putting all of my energy into pleasing him and was neglecting myself.

I 2nd this statement!  The more I did to try and please my dBPDh, the worse he treated me.  Once I started doing things to take care of myself and please myself, and then to meet him half way on things, the more he has come to respect me.

Is there any way that you can take the focus off of sex? Can you find other healthy things to do to work out those frustrations? I will go bake cookies or rearrange the house or find some other positive activity to occupy my mind. If you can go to a gym or take a walk or find some other physical activity, that sometimes help relieve some of the tension. Find ways to focus on you.

Exercise and friendships worked for me, too!  If the focus is too much on sex, my dBPDh has expressed that makes him feel pressured, then the worse it was.  Right now I am trying to keep the focus on being close and then proceeding to sex.  If we plan time to have sex, it just seems to be terrible sex. My dBPDh feels too much pressure from this, so for now sex has to be spontaneous and when we are feeling connected.

[Cat Familiar]

I'll admit to low libido and part of the problem with me, despite menopause, is that I just don't find my BPD husband attractive anymore. It's not that I find him physically unattractive, though he could minimize that beer belly if he didn't drink so much. It's rather that having watched the crazy, there's things I've seen that I can't unsee.

How do the rest of you get past this? Frankly whenever there is a hint of the dysregulated behavior, I'm so completely turned off by this man that the last thing I want to do is to have sex with him.

[Moselle]

It's rather that having watched the crazy, there's things I've seen that I can't unsee.

How do the rest of you get past this?

My desire for sex helps me to forgive and forget very quickly LOL.

It wasn't always that way. With a bit of understanding, I've developed some compassion for my wife about BPD/NPD. Once I understood the burning pain they experience I felt sorry for her in  a way. Not that I excuse the behaviour. I do not stand for abuse any more.  But I don't judge her for it.

Unfortunately mine has gone over to things like sex and silent treatment to punish me for perceived wrongs which I really have no response to.

It may be her efforts to get me to initiate divorce so she can get rid of this painful relationship and start with someone else. I can go years without sex too, so it's not going to work, and the silent treatment give me time to focus on me.

[Cat Familiar]

I do remember having a desire for sex--actually I think that's what got me into this mess in the first place.

Just a word of advice for those of you with female partners in menopause--it gets even more difficult. :'(  I was really surprised when it happened to me, though I'd heard about female desire going extinct, but I didn't believe it.

Thinking positively, perhaps a large part of loss of desire is that I've been so irritated by this man for so many years and the fact that he seems to have no clue as to how his BPD acting out impacts me. I've got a lot to forgive--nothing really horrific like cheating, but just constant daily irritation. I'm working on letting go of that with counseling--so maybe there's still hope, even with my diminished hormonal drive.

[Grey Kitty]

And my advice as a male who has a peri-menopausal / post-menopausal  partner: Expect changes in sex drive. Not necessarily down. Or up. Or consistent! There is a lot of variation, both between women and sometimes for the same woman over time.

[Shankz]

And my advice as a male who has a peri-menopausal / post-menopausal  partner: Expect changes in sex drive. Not necessarily down. Or up. Or consistent! There is a lot of variation, both between women and sometimes for the same woman over time.

i agree

[Cat Familiar]

Thanks, Grey Kitty and Shankz,

Once I get over my resentment, maybe there is hope for me after all.   

And I must say that using the tools I've found here, specifically SET and trying not to JADE, has really helped keep things more harmonious. Also my individual therapy has helped me to have compassion and realize my BPDh is really wounded and not merely an a$$hole.

I'm fortunate in that he's BPDlite. And I think I was fortunate growing up because my mom was full-on BPD, and from an early age I knew there was something wrong with her. The pwBPDlite are easy to miss and start doubting oneself, particularly if they're good at arguing, as my husband is.