I'm anxious: Time to start with new parent coordinator, and ex is nutty

[livednlearned]

Mine can make the recommendation for a psych eval and such.  They can basically make recommendations.  If the parties disagree, parties can use those in court.

You are all being very helpful.  Thank you.  Any thought you give me is helpful.

My ex is actually seeing a psychologist every 2 weeks and a psychiatrist every 4 - or SUPPOSED to be.  He's being treated for bipolar and anxiety, I believe.  I can't control what he does, ultimately, but I would certainly not want him to get any less treatment than he is now.  That would constitute a change in circumstance from when custody was decided, for one.

If the PC cannot ask him about his treatment, then it doesn't seem like there is much you can do right now except hang tight and see if the PC sees any point in ordering a psych eval. You could maybe subpoena his doctor's for records of his appointments. Even then, it wouldn't make sense to do that unless something happens, or in a year when your ex is supposed to report whether he is still in treatment.

You're in a hard spot because you agreed to something you don't want -- the PC not asking about ex's mental health.

[momtara]

Thanks.  She actually CAN ask him - she just can't talk to his docs.  And she can't talk about medication. She can ask if he's going regularly.  She could even ask him for documentation. 

My ex falsely believes she can't ask him anything about his treatment and appointments, and that's not true. 

[momtara]

I had some thoughts.  I am wondering if the PC would recommend that he stay in counseling and give more frequent reports.  She'd have to see his behavior over time, I imagine.  If at some point I tell her I want to go to court over this, she may seek out a compromise to avoid us going to court.

On another note, just seeing a PC will ramp things up.  My ex actually totaled his car last year just before our second appt with the PC.  She was aggressive and made him feel on edge.  Maybe this new one will have a gentler manner with him.  Hopefully not so gentle that she backs down like I did.  My one fear is that she's a mediator and will back down.  But she also has experience with high conflict couples.  She's not a dr. like the other one; she's a social worker.  I'll have to stress that it's best for the kids if he stays in counseling and addresses his anxieties.

[momtara]

Saw my T today.  He basically repeated everything that Livedandlearned and David already said.  You guys are smart.

Also said that what matters is his behavior now, not what he might do.  I still know, though, that when he gets triggered, things get worse.  Hate lying in wait for that.  But if he's truly sick, it will come out in front of the pc.

[david]

Focusing on behavior instead of worrying about what may happen took time to sink into my thick skull.

Back in 2007 I was not able to really help our two boys because I didn't know what I was doing. I was second guessing myself, believing ex's allegations to some degree, and generally very unsure. The thing that kept me focused was how best to help our kids grow and develop.

Slowly I began to realize ex was not going to hear what I was saying and change her ways. Finally, going to jail for two weeks gave me time to think I needed to change my way of communicating to ex to protect myself. That is when I built all my "safety walls" around me to protect myself from her. I wasn't that way with anyone else but I needed to do that since I was no good for our kids if I was locked up. I started recording. I was already communicating through email but I was more committed to email only communication after that.

I am not blaming myself but had I put up those protections beforehand I would not have been locked up. In order to help our kids I have to be safe from ex's behaviors.

Experience is a great teacher.

[livednlearned]

Focusing on behavior instead of worrying about what may happen took time to sink into my thick skull.

Me too

And when something did happen, it was totally out of the blue, and unrelated to what I was doing or worried about.

You cannot manage someone else's mental illness, that's what I learned. It isn't cause and effect like we think it is. It only seems that way.

[momtara]

True.  That's what mental illness is - doesn't follow reason.  Although I do know a lot of ex's triggers, and if I keep them to a minimum from my end, I notice that there are fewer outbursts.  But there are some I can't control, that come from other forces.  If my ex got laid off, like most, he'd be more erratic.

One thing I will say, though, is that all the professionals don't have to worry about my kids.  They'd feel bad about something happening, but to them, it wouldn't be the end of the world.  Maybe my ex hasn't done anything dangerous, but he gets erratic when triggered.  If most fathers in the world have a 1/10,000 chance of hurting their kids, I'd say he has a higher chance.  Maybe still low, maybe no sense in my fretting now, but he is mentally ill and should be watched.  So even if I shouldn't worry all the time, I am still going to worry, and I am still hoping this PC will see the value in asking for an extra report that he's seeing his counselors, or just making sure he's seeing them at all.

[livednlearned]

True.  That's what mental illness is - doesn't follow reason.  Although I do know a lot of ex's triggers, and if I keep them to a minimum from my end, I notice that there are fewer outbursts.  But there are some I can't control, that come from other forces.  If my ex got laid off, like most, he'd be more erratic.

One thing I will say, though, is that all the professionals don't have to worry about my kids.  They'd feel bad about something happening, but to them, it wouldn't be the end of the world.  Maybe my ex hasn't done anything dangerous, but he gets erratic when triggered.  If most fathers in the world have a 1/10,000 chance of hurting their kids, I'd say he has a higher chance.  Maybe still low, maybe no sense in my fretting now, but he is mentally ill and should be watched.  So even if I shouldn't worry all the time, I am still going to worry, and I am still hoping this PC will see the value in asking for an extra report that he's seeing his counselors, or just making sure he's seeing them at all.

I'm just going to push you a little on this, momtara. The thing that's dissonant with what you're saying above is that you sometimes don't treat him like he's seriously mentally ill. It's not just that you worry all the time, it's that sometimes you don't worry at all. You think about loosening the boundaries because you feel guilty for not doing so.

Your anxiety is sky high, and you don't trust what counselors/professionals/friends here are saying because we don't have to live with the consequences, but then in the next post, you want feedback about whether to give your ex more time, or have him over. The message is: "he's really dangerous and I'm so scared" followed by "he's great with the kids and I sometimes think about getting back together with him."

It's almost like you don't believe in the danger you are so worried about.

Does that make sense? I know that sounds so blunt, I'm really just trying to put in front of you what kind of impression you might be giving professionals, including lawyers and judges if it comes to that. That's why boundaries are so important. That's why david and FD and other old timers here talk about it over and over and over.

If I had to summarize my own pathology around this, I would say that I could not be trusted to do what was best for me and S13. Not before I got it through my thick skull that boundaries come first. I had to treat boundaries as the guiding light because left to my own devices, I would sabotage what I was working toward.

You can't get what you want if you are constantly reacting. You have to have a goal, a plan, a strategy, and then follow through with that plan. Might something trigger him? Yes. Could he be triggered by something delusional? Highly likely. It doesn't mean you seek to trigger him, and it doesn't mean you are aggressive with him. Part of it is learning to communicate in ways that are so neutral you become boring to him. You become predictable. And consistent. And unwavering. People with BPD will test your boundaries constantly, like a little kid almost. Until there is just nothing there to test anymore because you are so consistent, or until they find a new target. Having weak boundaries just keeps you in this eternal loop of hell where it feels like he has all this control and power to bully you. And that's going to end badly because he is getting something out of it, and will keep pressing to see how much more he can get. I don't know that you're anymore safer by staying engaged with him, and would argue that you could actually be making things more dangerous for yourself.

That might be the piece that you aren't hearing when professionals talk about this stuff. You believe you have some control over his behavior, and that's a very risky way to think.

[momtara]

I appreciate that.  I'm learning.  You've made that point before - that I go back and forth - and it's a good one.

I am largely no contact with him now, except for kids stuff, and largely by email.  That was an adjustment. 

The whole fact that I'm not in control of his moods is something I am learning too.

He's potentially dangerous.  That's how I feel.  It's true that there have been times that I felt it was less true.  I think he is most triggery when sensing abandonment.

There are some boundaries I still haven't set, because I *do* want to know what kind of mood he's in.  He still comes up to our apt to get the kids.  I could set a boundary and say I'm bringing them out to the car instead.  But I do want to have a little insight into his mood at the time he's getting them.  My T may not agree with that, but it's the way I'm keeping it, at least for now.  I think the benefit outweighs the risk.