She's cheating, unsure what to do next

[Nocheering]

My uBPDw has been cheating.  I have, in my mind, irrefutable evidence.  18 months ago, I inadvertently noticed on the cell phone bill she had 500+ text messages in a month.  I identified one of the number as that of a co-worker.  They were texting each other 20-30 times per day.  I calmly confronted her, she admitted she had been "flirtatious" but she had not "crossed the line."  I accepted that, and her promise that it would end.  I saw no evidence of anything for the next year.  Early this summer, she accepted a new job and with it, a company phone.  Now, she's back to the same behavior she showed 18 months ago:  texting at all hours, never leaving the phone unattended.  In addition, I have found receipts for unexplained hotel rooms, dinner reservations, and flight confirmations for him to fly to the same places she has been.  In my mind, the evidence is irrefutable.

My therapist tells me "she doesn't want to be married to you.  Kick her out."  I tend to agree.  A "shock and awe" confrontation (she has no idea that I am aware of the affair) and throwing her out would certainly wake her up and force her to be honest with her therapist about the depth of her problems. 

But, we have 17 and 14 year old children who would be absolutely crushed to have their mother leave the house.  I confided in my dearest and oldest friend who knows me well and said "you've always been about family.  I don't know how you should deal with her, but you've always put family at the front."

So, I'm torn.  My wife has not said "I love you" in over a year. During her rages, she tells me she's not attracted to me, has no respect for me, all the things that BP's say during their rages.

I know something has to happen.  I will confront her, that part I am sure of.  But, what happens next, I am less sure of.  Do I kick her out and hope she comes to her senses, so confront her, insist on more intensive therapy but keep the family unit intact?

[peiper]

First thing is go get tested for STD'S.

[ForeverDad]

We've had stories like this over the years, sometimes it's the wife, sometimes the husband.  But what never worked was getting promises to stop the pattern.  Promises mean little, it's the actions - or commitment - that count.  And with BPD change for the better is hard to accomplish.  Sorry.

First let me talk about the children.  They may know something, if not about infidelities then about the rants and rages.  Walls have ears and all that.  So what example are they seeing?  Is this the home environment you want to continue for them?  By that I mean, Do you want them to grow up and choose a spouse like mom or like dad?  Sadly the model they've seen isn't a very healthy one.  All I'm saying is that if you do separate, do it for the right reasons.  If they see you setting healthy boundaries in your life, they may choose to do similarly.

Next, about your choices... .

You're thinking of confronting her and kicking her out.  Around here we see things go south in an instant.  What if when you confront her then she ramps up the conflict, calls the police, claims you hit her, you get carted off to spend a weekend in jail based on her unsubstantiated claims and she gets you kicked out?  Think it can't happen?  It can.  It does.  Far too often.  Be aware, beware.

How involved is she with parenting?  Unless she's preoccupied with her adult relationships she could wage an all-out War for custody.  The children are older, nearly grown, so maybe not.  But it's still a possibility.  Prepare for that.

Just in case things do go south, make sure you life a super clean life from now on.  No outbursts, no indications you could be claimed to be out of control or raging.  Yes, confronting her as you're contemplating could get emotional but be very careful, you can't say or do anything that could make you appear to be an angry or abusive man.  Or be twisted and distorted into one.  Be a virtual saint, behave as though she could be recording you and trying to frame you for mischief.

Hope she comes to her senses... .you can't count on that.

Insist on more intensive therapy... .you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Keep the family unit intact... .a dysfunctional family?  Only if she gets into therapy and make real progress long term, not faking it for a few visits.

And yes, get tested.

[Nocheering]

Thank you, ForeverDad.  I appreciate your advice.  How best would you suggest I handle telling her I know about her affair? 

[catnap]

Thank you, ForeverDad.  I appreciate your advice.  How best would you suggest I handle telling her I know about her affair? 

   

As to the actual when to tell her. . .it needs to be in a safe environment for you.  False DV charges are a very real risk until she is out of the house.  Some have had their partners hurt themselves to add credibility to their lies. 

Consult with several attorneys. One of the questions is to ask if they have any experience in high conflict.  If they say yes, ask for a few examples.  Find out how divorce works where you live.  Does infidelity have any bearing on the outcome?  Should I confront her with the affair?  If so, when?  How can I do so safely to avoid possible false accusations of domestic violence? 

If you have not already done so, make copies of things you mentioned "receipts for unexplained hotel rooms, dinner reservations, and flight confirmations for him to fly to the same places she has been."  Put them in a safe place so your wife does not have access to.

 

[maxen]

hi Nocheering. first, i'm horribly sorry that you're experiencing this. it's the worst. please pay close attention to the advice you get from the longtimers above.

Find out how divorce works where you live.  :)oes infidelity have any bearing on the outcome?

for example, in NYS an action brought in adultery is hard to prove and has no bearing on division of assets, but can have bearing on custody.

[Nope]

If you are going to call her out on the cheating then you need to be prepared for what ever her reaction will be. And I don't just mean in the moment but also potentially three months later if she decides to abandon you before you can abandon her and she paints you completely black.

When my DH would find evidence of his BPD now ex wife cheating on him and would confront her on it she always made up hugely elaborate stories for how a used condom was in the trash in their home bathroom and then scream at him that he didn't trust her because he was psychologically damaged. Ever hear the Shaggy song, "Wasn't Me"? Yeah. Then, a few months after she did in fact get caught red handed she demanded a divorce. Not him. Her.

Many people here can tell you all about how their BPD person cleaned out all of the accounts, made wild accusations and caused all kinds of wreckage in their lives and their children's lives. I recommend the book "Splitting". I think it would do you a lot of good to read that cover to cover before you say one word to her.

[livednlearned]

I agree with Nope -- get a copy of Splitting by Bill Eddy. There is a digital version you can download to Kindle or your computer. Eddy also runs the www.highconflictinstitute.com so you can read some of his advice about PDs affect divorce and/or custody battles. He was a family therapist and marriage counselor for years before becoming a family law attorney. Study his stuff before you do anything else.

I'm sorry you have to go through this, and you must be in a lot of pain learning about the affair, not to mention the raging and abuse you experience. Unfortunately, both options in front of you are bad: staying or leaving. You have the pick the least worst one.

Everyone has to work it out on their own, but for what it's worth, I found that figuring out what is best for the kids is often not obvious. I've been out of my marriage for 4 years and now that I'm emotionally detached from N/BPDx and the abuse, I can see that staying had a far worse effect on my son than leaving did. These aren't healthy relationships, and without any idea about what the alternative looks like, kids are much more likely to replay the same kind of dynamic with friends and future partners. If you do what is healthy, at least you give them an alternative reality than the dysfunctional one they think is the only one.

Don't put your head in the sand at this point -- it's tempting, but it just makes it worse. She's already pulled the pin on the grenade so now you have to make a decision. For all you know, your wife may have consulted a lawyer and is preparing to do something herself. It's a small consolation that you discovered the affair without her knowing, but at least you have some advance warning and time to prepare your next move.

Whatever you do, don't tip your hand until you have all the information you need. No one comes out ahead if you blunder into the legal system without a good plan in place.

[mywifecrazy]

For all you know, your wife may have consulted a lawyer and is preparing to do something herself. It's a small consolation that you discovered the affair without her knowing, but at least you have some advance warning and time to prepare your next move.

Heed this warning. I was FLABBERGASTED to find out (after the fact) that my uBPDxw had contacted a lawyer when we were in marriage counseling trying to save the marriage. I was being sincere in counseling while she was using it as a smoke screen to keep me from protecting myself. She was so DEVIOUS!

Good Luck!

MWC... .

[Nocheering]

Thank you all for your advice.  I have been in contact with a lawyer and they are drawing up a separation agreement.  In our state, you must be separated for a year before the divorce becomes final.  I have also made adjustments to the bank accounts.  I plan to leave her enough to live on for a month (equivalent to her last paycheck).  I have a great team of a PI, attorney and therapist who have been of great assistance.  Waiting for final report from PI before I pull the trigger.  I already have, in my mind, irrefutable evidence of the affair.  Will see if the PI can add to that. 

I'm sure I will continue to read the trials and tribulations of others who share this dilemma.  I truly thank you for your support and advice.

[walksoftly]

Im so glad you came here for advice. I wished I had known about this forum when I found out my ex was cheating on me. I found out they both drafted a separation agreement together, planned to buy their own home, re-arranged the finances etc. My ex was trying to get me to purchase life insurance; a million dollar policy prior to the split. Very concerning.

My advice to you is to find a lawyer that deals with high conflict divorces.

Then, think about how a normal divorce would take place and try to prepare accordingly.

If your pay cheque is direct deposited have it redirected. Watch your savings.

[Waddams]

I would expose as little as possible to her about your knowledge of her affair.  If you have to put something in the paperwork, dont' put in any details you know.

I'd also not give her any advance warning of anything.  Perhaps set it up to not be there when she is served.  Maybe even be gone for the weekend with the kids.

I'd also advise to go ahead and create as much financial separation as possible, up to and including closing joint accounts, credit cards, etc.  This trick is somewhat dirty pool, but if you have joint debts, just pay them off using joint accounts at the outset of all this.  That way you can't get stuck with marital debt, she can't make off with joint assets, and the lawyers don't get to make off with it either.  You get a benefit from your money.

Have an escape plan ready for you and your kids.  Have overnight bags packed and ready.  Have all copies of every bit of documentation you need, or might need, both yours, joint, and hers.  Have copies of the kid's documentation (birth certs, passports, medical records, school records, etc.).  All that stuff will have a habit of disappearing quickly after she's served. Have duplicate credit/bank cards/check books hidden somewhere out of the house.  Definitely remove your passport, birth cert, SSN cards, etc.  Maybe even have a handy stash of emergency cash stored away.  Or buy some VISA gift cards (or similar) and stash them with everything else. 

Can you afford a 2nd residence?  Can you afford one big enough for your children and you?  If so, I'd be ready to move quickly.  Try to find one in the same school district.

If you have sentimental possessions, find a storage place for them and move them now.  If there are joint assets you want, move them now.  You can always hand them over later if they are disputed and you need to give them to her.

Invest in a voice recorder.  And then especially once she's served, always be recording, and go as low contact with her as you can. 

And find a good counselor for both you and your children.  You're going to need professional help in getting through this.

You're going to war.  It's time to switch mindsets from she's your wife to she's your rival.  Expect outlandish accusations, behavior, and acting out from her. 

And be willing to use her affair against her.  Not just in court, but there are other manipulations.  If her paramour is single, perhaps she'd be in a hurry to divorce you so she could be with him openly.  Be willing to let her, but understand you can use that.  If she's willing to be reasonable and divorce easily and fairly divide up everything and give in on somethings, then you can go along with a quick divorce.  If she's not willing to, you can drag it out and keep her tied down so she can't move on with this new guy. 

Above all, don't fall for any manipulations from her that she's just some poor woman and you have to be overly fair.  You don't.  You need to focus on setting up the best possible outcome for yourself so you can have the best post-divorce position to be there for your children.

[walksoftly]

sadly, its true.  Its an all out war. You have to be sophisticated in your actions and try to keep your emotions out of it. Prepare prepare prepare, that should be the go word. She has betrayed you, its already happening so defend yourself.

Im so sorry to hear this is happening to you its a terrible experience to go through. When I found out my emotions took over. She was already set up with her new life and her partner well before I found out. It was sociopathic. To this day I worry about the life insurance policy she demanded I take out on myself. Luckily I didnt sign up, I wonder what would have occurred if I did. I did nothing wrong, I was the best father and husband and I was treated like I was the one that cheated.

Try to get everything in your name. Stop sharing credit cards... cancel them. Stop sharing everything financially, stop the line of credits. Take her name off everything. Slowly remove any assets you have that are in the home. Prepare, Prepare,Prepare.

[ForeverDad]

War?  Could it really come to that?  When you were supposed to be married as the best of trusted friends and partners?  Sadly, yes, that's a heavy dose of reality.  You need to be prepared for literally anything.  Anything.  Remember how war was conducted in centuries past, all the armies marching in formation with rules of warfare, white flags and such?  Well, a high conflict divorce isn't like that, it's more like the terrorists of today.  People with BPD (and to a certain extent even the other acting-out PDs) have been called 'emotional terrorists'.  Beware.  An ounce of preparation is worth a pound of legal fees.

But repeat to yourself, you didn't do this, she did.  Even if she tries to guilt you over some of your faults - after all we all have some faults - and blame it all on you, an honest assessment would conclude that your issues are dwarfed by her issues.

Of course, you don't have to be mean about it, just protect yourself... .emotionally, legally and financially.  It has often been stated that a divorce, especially a high-conflict one, needs to unwind the marriage in as businesslike a manner as possible.  It is wise not to be too emotionally invested in the process, either wishing for the good times to be back or wishing to serve punishment.  In this situation you can't do or get either.  Just 'Let Go' and 'Move On'.  By protecting yourself you are protecting your parenting and by protecting your parenting you're protecting your children.

[livednlearned]

It doesn't have to be a war.

However, this will start one:

A "shock and awe" confrontation (she has no idea that I am aware of the affair) and throwing her out would certainly wake her up and force her to be honest with her therapist about the depth of her problems. 

She isn't going to face the depth of her problems if you do this. She will fight back and try to destroy you because people with BPD respond to shame in ways that are different from you and me.

You need to emotionally detach and recognize that this person does not have your interests at heart. At all. It won't become a war if you are very smart and well-prepared and stay a step ahead of her. Hold everything close to your chest. Don't tell her anything until you have a watertight plan in place.

That means don't try to get emotional justice from her. Deal with the relationship part of your marriage ending with a skilled therapist, and deal with the business end of your marriage with a good lawyer.

[Nocheering]

Thank you all for the advice.  Somehow, I don't see it going to war, but that's certainly a consideration.  18 months ago, I noticed her texting a guy 20-25 times a day.  I got myself a therapist, she said 'confront her,' let her know you're aware.  I did that, she readily admitted, said she was only flirtatious.  But, with the new job and a new company phone starting this summer, I believe she's back to old tricks.  Only this time, I have hotel receipts, flight receipts.  Have a PI who witnessed them having dinner together last week when she said she was shopping.

I've met with Atty, have another meeting this week.  Will meet with my therapist this week also.  At this point, unless advised otherwise, I plan to sit her down (kids out of house), tell her I'm aware of the affair and ask her to leave the house.  Now, am I idealistic and believe she will comply?  Possibly.  And, again, atty and therapist may have different suggestion.  I know I'm being idealistic when I say I want her to get intensive therapy and overcome this disorder.  On the other hand, she may say she wants to be with the other guy and she's happy to move out.  This is her 3rd marriage, she just walked away from the first two.  But there were no kids, no large sums of money involved.  And there are no large sums of money involved in this one either!

Will she scream about me having abused her of make charge of DV?  I don't see her doing that and it has NEVER happened.  But, I do need to prepare.

I have moved the money around to where she cannot get to it.  I do not plan to leave the house but, if she refuses to leave, I'll need my atty's advice on that.

[ForeverDad]

You need to emotionally detach... .  That means don't try to get emotional justice from her. Deal with the relationship part of your marriage ending with a skilled therapist, and deal with the business end of your marriage with a good lawyer.

Closure will have to be something you Gift Yourself.  This is not the end of a normal relationship with a reasonably normal spouse, so you won't get closure (or emotional justice) from your spouse.

Very important for us to get an idea of her patterns and outlook... .How involved with parenting is she?

A small subset of pwBPD discussed here are more focused on adult relationships rather than with parenting.  (Admittedly, this group could be a low proportion because they just wander away and are not as determined to be possessive, all-or-nothing parents.)  If so, then yes you might not have a custody war brewing if you approach this with care and insightful strategy.

Frankly, any private sit-down with her must be recorded* to protect yourself from overreactions such as false allegations.

* Quietly, nothing in her face, if all goes smoothly you can file it away as just-in-case insurance and she will never know.  For the smart perspective, always consider it as "recording myself" rather than "recording the spouse".  Handling it that way can avoid triggering emotional overreactions, confrontations and accusations.

In my case, I had a ton of recordings starting from a few months before separation.  I felt an urgent need to have proof I wasn't the one misbehaving and I was the target.  I only used one in 2006 in the DV case which proved I wasn't the aggressor.  I used a couple more before two CPS agents to defend myself from a child abuse allegation in 2007.  I used about 10 in my last court case in 2013 to help the court identify which parent was uncooperative, self-serving and manipulating the exchanges.

If I didn't have them I wouldn't have been able to prove why I called 911, that I didn't beat my son on the shins in a fit of rage and that I was the only one trying to make the exchanges work.

[Nocheering]

Forever Dad, she is very involved in parenting . . . In fact, her relationship with our 17-year daughter is the envy of friends and family.  They have never had the clashes that we so frequently hear about among others raising teenage daughters.  Our 14-year old son has some special needs and she has been pretty attentive to that.

The brief history:  married almost 18 years, she first raged at me about 3 months into the marriage.  Rages every 3 to 6 months after that.  Many of them over the most trivial matters but, as we're all aware, there's a grain of truth and she managed to make me feel responsible and guilty.  Starting 10 years into the marriage, she would talk of old boyfriends, how they would contact her, tell her I was a lucky guy to have her.  There are old e-mails inviting old boyfriends to come and visit her when she was out of town.  She would come home from work, tell me how lucky I was to have her or that some colleague was hitting on her.  Then 18 months ago, I discovered her "text message" affair with a colleague.  The last 18 months the verbal abuse has ramped up, telling me she's no longer attracted to me, can't stand to have sex with me, etc.  Yet, in between the rages and these outbursts, she's fairly calm and our sex life has decreased in frequency only minutely.  Now, within the last 10 days, I discover hard-core evidence of the affair.

Will she fight for the kids?  Yes, I believe so.  Can I prove intercourse between her and the guy?  No.  But I can prove lying, deception, and betrayal.  Instances of her texting me that she vows to be a better person then moments later e-mailing him her love for him.   

I do plan to record the conversation with the audio recorder on my phone in order to make sure there are no later complaints.

[ForeverDad]

So with the close relationship she has with your daughter she would likely be called a 'Golden Child'.  As a result she is more likely to have Narcissistic traits cultivated in her over the years.  Of course, traits don't mean a disorder, we all have traits, it's only when they are twisted to extremes that it indicates a disorder.  Just something to keep aware.

Divorce generally is about 3 things... .custody & parenting, division of marital assets & debts, and support (spousal support during the divorce and alimony post-divorce).  These days more and more states are viewing alimony to be somewhat short term to help the financially disadvantaged spouse adjust to single life and become financially self-sufficient.  That might include time to find a job, start a career or up to 2 years of training/education to become employable.

Custody & parenting... .Your daughter is nearly an adult, your son has another 3-4 years until he's an adult.  So custody issues would apply to your son.  Perhaps who pays for college tuition for both children could be up in the air too.  (Unless a parent is independently wealthy, we generally suggest our members to err on the side of fiscal caution and limit obligations to pay for state equivalent tuition rates.  For example, if your finances are limited and your order simply states you pay or you pay part and nothing more, your ex could encourage the children to attend expensive private or famous universities that are much more expensive than the local colleges or universities.  So the unwary parent could end up getting forced to pay 2-3 times as much just for not setting a common sense framework of parameters and limits.

So what about splitting finances or potential alimony?  This last might be something where infidelity may swing things your way a little.  A lot depends on whether your state is a fault or no fault state.

[livednlearned]

So what about splitting finances or potential alimony?  This last might be something where infidelity may swing things your way a little.  A lot depends on whether your state is a fault or no fault state.

My order says co-habitation nullifies alimony. Meaning, if I moved in with my boyfriend next week, N/BPDx would no longer have to pay alimony.

Divorce can sometimes create value conflicts in painful ways. For example, it could be good for you financially if she moved out and in with her paramour. But it would be hard for the kids to see mom with another guy right away, not to mention for you as well.

[Nocheering]

Livednlearned, thanks for the tip.  I appreciate it.  You are correct about her reaction.  I will have to reconsider "shock and awe."  You've given me more to think about.

[ForeverDad]

You know she's trying to keep it from you.  The question is whether the children know or suspect.  If she thinks they don't know then she may try very hard to keep them from knowing, potential leverage for you.

Consider long and hard if/when you let the children know about this.  Though they are older, they are still minors and court may not think well of a parent divulging adult matters to the children.  But it still happens all the time and probably any consequences are minor.  Likely she's accused you of being unfaithful when enraged and the children could have heard such accusations.

Be aware that they may very well have a loyalty to her and thus haven't told you or even told each other.  In these dysfunctional family environments lots of unhealthy secrets are kept.

This reminds me of what happened a few decades ago, my sibling was marrying a few years after divorce and the ex announced getting remarried the following week too.  Me being the family genealogist, I went and looked up my sibling's marriage application and was surprised to not only find sibling's ex listed as filing for a marriage certificate later the very same day, this was the ex's third marriage, one my sibling knew nothing about!  When sibling told the children, they asked why I had looked.  Clearly they knew all about that hushed up second marriage and annulment a few months later.  Ponder that, they clearly knew but didn't reveal the secret marriage and were defensive that it was discovered.  They had become enmeshed in the adult matters and secrets and they weren't even to their teens yet.

I'm not saying the children shouldn't or won't find out, but they mustn't be put in the middle where they feel they have to choose sides or are pressured or guilted to do so.  Yet a pwBPD will do just that, without compunction.  For that reason, one of your goals should be to have the court order that the children get counseling.  Counseling is a good thing - as long as the counselor is experienced, perceptive and not easily gullible.  Many counselors can be fooled, at least at first.  You need one who will withhold judgment until both parents can be assessed or enough time passes to reveal the parents' behavior patterns.

[Joe_CW]

This sounds very, very similar to my situation:  a discovered affair after 20 years of marriage; a 9-month separation; and a divorce about to be culminated.    

My wife left the marital home before I suspected an affair.  As soon as she left, fearing the worst I intuitively took action to protect my interests.  I contacted a marital attorney to learn how to react appropriately to the situation, secured important papers, changed insurance beneficiaries, opened a checking account in my own name, changed death beneficiaries on investment accounts, canceled joint credit accounts, secured valuable real property, and so on.  When I eventually learned unequivocally of an affair, I immediately moved to an apartment of my own, taking my children with me, and filed for divorce.

In my opinion, and based on my experience, if your wife has been diagnosed with or has displayed symptoms of BPD, and has commenced an affair, there is little point in attempting reconciliation.  According to my values, anyone who would behave in the manner you have described, and as my wife did, has shown themselves to be unworthy of trust and undeserving of any further consideration.  

I would urge you to consider not confronting your wife about the affair.  The evidence you have presented here would prove an affair to any rational person.  If you believe that she has behaved as you say, then you are no longer obligated to her in any way, other than by what the law demands.  Your only obligation now is to yourself, your children, and anyone else who depends on you.  Any forewarning you give her of your intentions will only provide her with ammunition to attack you.  My wife's outrageous, contemptuous, insensitive, self-absorbed behavior completely blindsided me:  I couldn't comprehend that someone I had been married to for twenty years could do the things she was doing.

Based on my own experience, strikingly similar to yours, the responses posted by others here are right on the money, and are valuable advice that you should take to heart and act upon without further delay.  

I am very sorry that you have to go through this.  For me, simply walking away was the only and best possible response.