totally unexpected, reconciling, don't know what to think

[SickofMe]

After a three-month breakup, with my ex *finally* (FINALLY!) initiated contact with me (I'd tried many times and would get very cold responses)... .I think I'm going back to him.

He says he was scared by my erratic behavior (it did happen, see thread:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=235473.msg12513392#msg12513392) and had decided more or less that I was unstable/psycho.  He said he felt like ripping the bandaid off was the best way to do it and he couldn't have a conversation with me because he wouldn't have been able to leave me, facing me.

So I guess I've been NC'd the whole time, when I thought it was a ST?

He has apologized profusely, has offered to make contact with anyone I want (my best friends and family) and "fall on his sword" regarding his hurting me, and told me that he has never experienced such heartache.  He says he felt that all of my upset was focused on his not loving me enough (WOW, isn't that what partners of BPD say?)

I believe that he means every bit of it.  I believe he wants to work things out with me.  I believe what he says about his perceptions (and I was in a really, really bad space when we broke up, only in part bc our r/s seemed to be so stagnant).

He and I both have hx of partners with PDs.  I made the comment to him that I think maybe it's worse being "almost normal" than being fully nuts.

I am pretty sure he is saying he was afraid I am BPD (he wouldn't use that terminology) and he was scared to death.

He has promised to take things slowly with me.  I told him I've become totally fried and paranoid.  He said he understands, and has said how sorry he is, over and over and over.

He has promised that he will never, ever go cold on me again, even if he wants to break up.  He is very avoidant and admits to that.

I've written here before that I am aware I have unstable personality traits and trauma hx.  I also work on myself really hard, all the time.  My T says "no way" to BPD but says yes to PTSD (or C-PTSD) and is treating me for that.

He and I have been talking endlessly and disclosing a lot to one another.  He has said he realizes he's been emotionally unavailable and that it's a lifelong pattern.  He says he wants to be honest and connect on a more intimate level.

Does anyone have any thoughts? 

[Caredverymuch]

After a three-month breakup, with my ex *finally* (FINALLY!) initiated contact with me (I'd tried many times and would get very cold responses)... .I think I'm going back to him.

He says he was scared by my erratic behavior (it did happen, see thread:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=235473.msg12513392#msg12513392) and had decided more or less that I was unstable/psycho.  He said he felt like ripping the bandaid off was the best way to do it and he couldn't have a conversation with me because he wouldn't have been able to leave me, facing me.

So I guess I've been NC'd the whole time, when I thought it was a ST?

He has apologized profusely, has offered to make contact with anyone I want (my best friends and family) and "fall on his sword" regarding his hurting me, and told me that he has never experienced such heartache.  He says he felt that all of my upset was focused on his not loving me enough (WOW, isn't that what partners of BPD say?)

I believe that he means every bit of it.  I believe he wants to work things out with me.  I believe what he says about his perceptions (and I was in a really, really bad space when we broke up, only in part bc our r/s seemed to be so stagnant).

He and I both have hx of partners with PDs.  I made the comment to him that I think maybe it's worse being "almost normal" than being fully nuts.

I am pretty sure he is saying he was afraid I am BPD (he wouldn't use that terminology) and he was scared to death.

He has promised to take things slowly with me.  I told him I've become totally fried and paranoid.  He said he understands, and has said how sorry he is, over and over and over.

He has promised that he will never, ever go cold on me again, even if he wants to break up.  He is very avoidant and admits to that.

I've written here before that I am aware I have unstable personality traits and trauma hx.  I also work on myself really hard, all the time.  My T says "no way" to BPD but says yes to PTSD (or C-PTSD) and is treating me for that.

He and I have been talking endlessly and disclosing a lot to one another.  He has said he realizes he's been emotionally unavailable and that it's a lifelong pattern.  He says he wants to be honest and connect on a more intimate level.

Does anyone have any thoughts? 

What have you learned here in regard to time frames of recycles as well as the words that will be used and the promises that will be made at that time?

You said you are working w a T who has identified  PTSD issues you are dealing with as well as past r/s partners with PDs.  Is there a correlation you might be able to see in that?

How would returning to this r/s help you and what do you believe you will gain? 

[SickofMe]

What have you learned here in regard to time frames of recycles as well as the words that will be used and the promises that will be made at that time?

I don't think I've read about this, didn't think it would happen in this case.

Are his comments stereotypical?

[Perfidy]

Always forward. Never backward. A slow, steady motion in one direction. Going back is exactly what the words imply. I wouldn't take my ex back even if she walked on her lips through broken glass to put a jeweled crown on my head. But that's just how I am. I won't ride the roller coaster. I won't be in an eternal tug of war. I will be stable and move slowly in one direction and have peace and happiness in my life. No one except me is responsible for my happiness. My self esteem is intact. I am not vulnerable. I have dated many other better women. Women are attracted to me. I look forward to the future and live in the present with the knowledge and wisdom from the past. I am the master of my mind, body and emotion, not the other way around. I will not suffer at my own hand.

[going places]

Please do not read this as "bitter, full of anger, etc."

Fact:

Aug 2011 I busted him 8 months deep into an affair with his co-worker.

(( This was after 20 years of no affairs (that I knew of), no fighting, no screaming, no nothing... .20 years of me pleasing him, making sure he was happy and had everything he wanted, his way... .I had ZERO no idea he was unhappy, or having an affair until he (being the glutton he is) dropped his mask, and I found out))

I begged him back. He ignored me. He said horrible, evil things to me, so I would go away.

I didn't go away.

He flipped the script, put it all on me (subtly, in a gaslighting kind of way)

Said he would move heaven and earth to show me he made "one mistake".

It was what *I* wanted to hear... .

He moved back in.

I tried, Lord, knows, I gave it my ALL + 4.

2 weeks he 'tried'... .then it was back to the same ole same ole.

NOW he blamed "my traumatic damage" as to why it didn't work.

6 months later, I found out things that were more horrifying than the affair.

I slipped into a depression that almost took my life.

He let me. He gas lit me like it was his job... .convinced me THIS WAS ALL my fault.

I believed him.

I filed for divorce in 2013.

We recycled 3 days before it was final.

NOTHING CHANGED (well, past the first 2 weeks).

April 2014, I filed for divorce again.

Listed the house for sale June 2014.

Divorce was final, 2014.

During this time, I researched until my eyes bled. I needed answers.

Medical books, Psych books (college text books) I saw an abuse advocate, went to weekly meetings, talked to my doctor... .found this site.

July 2014, I threw him out. The last time I saw him was July 17, 2014.

Aug 2014, I blocked him from everything EXCEPT email.

Sept 2014, I would ONLY discuss progress of the home sale with him, and nothing else.

Oct 2014, I started becoming ME again... .hopes, dreams, goals.

No longer can he manipulate me. When he tries (via email) I call him on it, and then do not respond to his tricks.

No longer can he hurt me. I took away his power.

He is a life long chronic liar and manipulator.

This, will never change.

This is a fact.

Once I took off the rose colored glasses, looked at facts, handled things logically, not emotionally, I could clearly see that EX's are EX's for a reason.

There is too much life to be lived. I will never again let an emotional vampire near my neck to suck the life out of me.

Never.

[SickofMe]

You said you are working w a T who has identified  PTSD issues you are dealing with as well as past r/s partners with PDs.  Is there a correlation you might be able to see in that?

How would returning to this r/s help you and what do you believe you will gain?

I am not sure, other than feeling like I want to give it a chance?  This r/s was very low-conflict with no real fighting, right up until the end when I went kinda crazy and he went cold.  So it's not like we've gone around and around.  He's never so much as raised his voice at me or been verbally abusive in any way--distant, though, and frustrating.

The thing that made me think BPD was how I was suddenly discarded and painted black.  He is proposing this was a different dynamic.  I think both of us have some unstable traits--I'm just not sure whose are whose and which are which?  We are both very "well-behaved."

He has agreed to see a relationship counselor with me... .I would NEVER have believed he'd do that... .but I also would never have believed I'd ask.

Going to go really slowly and observe myself and him over some time, before making any sort of formal commitment.

He has never cheated on me.

I have never cheated on him.

We have definitely had a push/pull dynamic, but have never lived together or been married.

I do think his behavior was cruel. 

He is astounded that I didn't realize he was hurt.

I just don't know.  I wonder if it is more difficult when the behavior is more subtle.  I would never tolerate overt craziness, what's been going on between us is much more nuanced.  I just want to be sure it wasn't my doing, and that I'm not in denial about my behavior.

[vortex of confusion]

I have been married to my husband for 16.5 years. I have heard the apologies and the whole "I know I am broken" speech time and time again. My husband is so good at telling me what I want to hear. He will do really well for a while and will then slip right back into old patterns. If I try to tell him that I am done, he throws a pity party and says stuff like, "I know I deserve it." There is no real admission of what all he has done. He can talk about his struggles all day long but when it comes to my struggles, I get crickets, OR he finds a way to turn it around.

How many chances have you given him? How many times have the two of you set about to "fix" things? I lost count on the number of times that I listened to my husband's pleadings and heart felt sentiments. They may be sincere in the moment but they are soon forgotten.

IF you want to try again, go in with your eyes wide open. Know what you will or won't accept and then stick with it. If you think you will get sucked in, don't walk, but run away as fast as you can. If I had it to do all over, I would have run like hell and never looked back.

[SickofMe]

How many chances have you given him? How many times have the two of you set about to "fix" things? I lost count on the number of times that I listened to my husband's pleadings and heart felt sentiments. They may be sincere in the moment but they are soon forgotten.

IF you want to try again, go in with your eyes wide open. Know what you will or won't accept and then stick with it. If you think you will get sucked in, don't walk, but run away as fast as you can. If I had it to do all over, I would have run like hell and never looked back.

This is the first time he's asked for a chance.  We broke up once before, briefly, and got back together but that was my doing.

I like what you say about know what you will or won't accept and then stick with it.  Maybe that's what the counseling could help with?  I am never really sure about my perceptions.  That is a sign of C-PTSD.  I'm a little fried.

[Pou]

I am a bit confused... .who has BPD?  both of you or just your partner... .i am trying to figure it out from your post.  My view is that if you two are aware of this PD issue, that is probably a good start to build something together.  Once you know there is a problem, you can start to fix it.  good luck!

[vortex of confusion]

I just don't know.  I wonder if it is more difficult when the behavior is more subtle.  I would never tolerate overt craziness, what's been going on between us is much more nuanced.  I just want to be sure it wasn't my doing, and that I'm not in denial about my behavior.

It is way more difficult to identify when things are more subtle. So many of the things that you have described remind me of things when my husband and I got together 18 years ago. I would venture to guess that your behavior had a part in things. I realize that my behavior has been a factor in what has transpired between my husband and I. A lot of what I contributed was me second guessing myself and trying to dismiss little things because it wasn't overt craziness. It wasn't something that I could put my finger on and say   . It was so subtle that I thought I had to be the crazy one. Given my family history, there is no way that I escaped without damage. If the two of you are dating and needing to see a therapist, what does that say about the health of the relationship moving forward? Is it worth it to you?

[going places]

How many chances have you given him? How many times have the two of you set about to "fix" things? I lost count on the number of times that I listened to my husband's pleadings and heart felt sentiments. They may be sincere in the moment but they are soon forgotten.

IF you want to try again, go in with your eyes wide open. Know what you will or won't accept and then stick with it. If you think you will get sucked in, don't walk, but run away as fast as you can. If I had it to do all over, I would have run like hell and never looked back.

This is the first time he's asked for a chance.  We broke up once before, briefly, and got back together but that was my doing.

I like what you say about know what you will or won't accept and then stick with it.  Maybe that's what the counseling could help with?  I am never really sure about my perceptions.  That is a sign of C-PTSD.  I'm a little fried.

That's how my ex kept me under his thumb the last 3 years.

He preyed on my PTSD and knew when and how to hit my triggers, and make himself look innocent.

When I took away all his powers, he emails me, TRYING to hit my triggers... .and because I took away his power, do not speak or see him... .it has given me space to walk out of the fog... .and realize just how destructive ANY relationship with him, is. And always will be.

I wish you peace.

[SickofMe]

I am a bit confused... .who has BPD?  both of you or just your partner... .i am trying to figure it out from your post.  My view is that if you two are aware of this PD issue, that is probably a good start to build something together.  Once you know there is a problem, you can start to fix it.  good luck!

That is sorta the question.  I think my ex (whose ex is definitely BPD or NPD, something weird) thought I'd suddenly revealed the depth of my craziness to him (after 2.5 years) bc I got drunk and screamed at him, twice in rapid succession.   I have never done this before in my life, and I'm 46.

I don't think I'm BPD (nor does my T), but I have some instability in my personality--that I work on, regularly.

I think both of us have issues.  I was really surprised he came back, and really surprised to hear his version of reality.  I think he's behaved abusively.  He said, what about intent?  I said, intent isn't the issue.

I guess we will see what happens.  I'm shocked and reeling, a little.

[Perfidy]

Check out some of the undecided board posts. They might be more helpful than the leavers. Kind of a biased crowed here,

[SickofMe]

If the two of you are dating and needing to see a therapist, what does that say about the health of the relationship moving forward? Is it worth it to you?

It is, if I'm just as big a problem as he is.  I really love him and until last summer, it was the happiest r/s I've been in, ever.

I don't think I'm as big a problem as he is.  I may have intimacy issues, but they are not as profound.  I think his unavailability is the issue and it pushed my trauma buttons after so much time.  But I also think his being willing to go to therapy is a sign, at least, that he recognizes that.

[SickofMe]

Check out some of the undecided board posts. They might be more helpful than the leavers. Kind of a biased crowed here,

Good idea.  I may try that!

[myself]

Going to go really slowly and observe myself and him over some time, before making any sort of formal commitment.

If you're going to take the chance, this is a good way to do it.

Many of us tried again. Or was it more that we weren't done yet?

If you're both really doing your best, and continue doing so, it could work.

If there was too much distrust, abuse, etc, it's probably best to just let it go.

Better than looking over your shoulder while he's grinning in your face.

[vortex of confusion]

I think both of us have issues.  I was really surprised he came back, and really surprised to hear his version of reality.  I think he's behaved abusively.  He said, what about intent?  I said, intent isn't the issue.

     

The focus on intent is a huge red flag. I have been getting the whole, "But I didn't mean to" speech for a long time. It doesn't make it hurt any less and it certainly doesn't mean that it is not abuse. I have been reading a lot of stories about abuse. It seems like one of the things that is often said is, "But I didn't mean to. I didn't intend to hit, hurt, whatever." If a person can hurt you and is more concerned about whether or not he meant to do it rather than the fact that it was done, then that isn't a good sign. When I accidentally hurt somebody, the first thing on my mind is "WOW, I am so sorry, what can I do to make this right." And then, I try to make my actions align with what I said. I don't get caught up in the whole, "But it was an accident, I didn't mean to, that wasn't my intent". It is a distraction so they don't have to change or take responsibility for their actions.

Yes, I am very biased! I have to agree that you should post to the undecided board to get more perspective. :-)

[SickofMe]

When I accidentally hurt somebody, the first thing on my mind is "WOW, I am so sorry, what can I do to make this right." And then, I try to make my actions align with what I said. I don't get caught up in the whole, "But it was an accident, I didn't mean to, that wasn't my intent". It is a distraction so they don't have to change or take responsibility for their actions.

He has said both of these things.  I believe he is struggling to take responsibility.  He has apologized and acknowledged his actions were wrong--incongruent and hurtful. He's never done that before, has always seemed highly defensive--would "get his lawyer on" (my characterization) when we'd disagree on something, and he'd usually make a very good (but un-empathic, very left-brained) argument.  BUT.  This was just not a big issue because we just didn't have much conflict.

It seems like what he is saying is that he thought he was doing one thing (ending the r/s and avoiding dragging it out) and didn't realize that I had no. f'ing. idea. what was happening.  I told him I think this was a mutual failure of empathy and I believe that is the case.  I didn't realize he was *hurt* bc he thought I found him inadequate (his interpretation, mine is much different).  I felt punished by his refusal to engage with me on an emotional level.

I think he is triggered by intimacy.  What I don't quite see, yet, is if I am, as well.

[Pou]

I am a bit confused... .who has BPD?  both of you or just your partner... .i am trying to figure it out from your post.  My view is that if you two are aware of this PD issue, that is probably a good start to build something together.  Once you know there is a problem, you can start to fix it.  good luck!

That is sorta the question.  I think my ex (whose ex is definitely BPD or NPD, something weird) thought I'd suddenly revealed the depth of my craziness to him (after 2.5 years) bc I got drunk and screamed at him, twice in rapid succession.   I have never done this before in my life, and I'm 46.

I don't think I'm BPD (nor does my T), but I have some instability in my personality--that I work on, regularly.

I think both of us have issues.  I was really surprised he came back, and really surprised to hear his version of reality.  I think he's behaved abusively.  He said, what about intent?  I said, intent isn't the issue.

I guess we will see what happens.  I'm shocked and reeling, a little.

sickofme, I have gone through a lot with my NPDw…. I am still suffering and need to handle that from day to day due to my circumstance.  But some part of me, some days, I am convinced that we are just wrong for each other.  My view of a relationship is loyalty and unconditional love.  My NPDw seems to throw my love acts and caring actions back at my face … I suspect, there is more than just NPD going on … but as many NPD do … they have extra marital affairs and since we no longer have intimacy (her choice and not mine), I suspect that is what is going on.  Yes, we are really not married … in spiritual terms, but we are married by a contract, of which she broke many terms specified on the contract.  When I get sick, she treats me like a liability and flat out says it to me …. so I don't get sick often and when I go see a doctor, I reluctant to share anything with her.  On top of that, I am considering not letting my future doctor revealing my medical record to her… I can not trust her.  My NPDw has sociopathic behaviors and I learned that from reading a very good book and shocked to learn it… no one wants to be with a NPD with sociopathic tendencies.  It is a horrible discovery.  Anyway … my point is that at some point, one has just to say … we are just not compatible ... I am not a NPD and I am not a sociopath and someone out there will be right for her ... just not me.  At that point, I would walk away with no regrets… I tried all I could in this relationship and after 7 years of full blown NPD from her ... it is pretty much done for me.  But with 3 kids, it is never that easy.  When my daughter tells me that happiest time for her is to have everyone in the family do activities together, how do you walk away?  not easy.  So before you get so deep into your relationship… just pause and read about everyone's experiences on this board… dealing with someone with PDs is destructive… do you want that?  good luck, regardless what you chose to do.