How to deal with my anger

[vortex of confusion]

As I read and respond and think and study, I find that I am becoming rather angry. It is like I am being drowned by 16.5 years of pent up emotion and it all wants to come out as anger. Has anybody else dealt with this? If so, what are some ways that I can deal with the anger without lashing out at anyone. I know that I have the right to be angry but I don't want my anger to consume me and I don't want to act on it in unhealthy ways. I can see where I am being passive/aggressive and sarcastic in response to my anger.

[BuildingFromScratch]

Poetry has helped me get out my anger. The lame punching a pillow thing can help. Talking to yourself out loud, as if you are talking to the person who wronged you can help A LOT. Exercise. Really, I'm not the best at this myself, but that's what's helped me!

[waverider]

I know, you feel cheated out of some good years of your life that you can't get back.

The anger lessens once you start to realize this was your choice, your own failings to do anything about it is what you got you there.

The biggest driver behind anger is resentment, as you start to cope better the resentment lessons more to periods of frustration which do not create the simmering anger.

That is not a criticism of you, we all did this.

Once you get your life back on track it will be of a quality you never had before

[Ihope2]

Anger and rage are very explosive, energy-laden emotions, unlike sadness and melancholy which tend to sap our energy.

Giving physical expression via some type of sport or physical activity sounds like the best thing, if possible just to loosen the grip of these powerful emotions.

Of course, getting to the bottom of the origins of these feelings is important, otherwise they remain with us.

[fromheeltoheal]

Anger is a normal, healthy response to abuse, and is a stage of grieving, so first off don't make yourself wrong for it, it doesn't sound like you are, and you're right, we don't want to do something that we'll regret later because we let it loose in the wrong direction.  I was extremely angry for a while too, and if the wrong person had said the wrong thing at that time I'd probably be in jail, but on the other hand, some people need to be lashed out at, part of reestablishment of boundaries.  What works best for me is getting my diet, sleep and exercise in line, everything goes better when those three are where they need to be, and then just enjoying the process; I've learned in the last year that as I work through anger my perceptions of things change, my mind finds a way to see things differently and better, and lately I'm really enjoying that.

It is like I am being drowned by 16.5 years of pent up emotion and it all wants to come out as anger.

I know that I have the right to be angry but I don't want my anger to consume me and I don't want to act on it in unhealthy ways.

You might also try reframing some of that.  Instead of being drowned by or consumed by anger, maybe anger is what pain leaving feels like?  Try that on and see if it takes some of the energy out of it and feels better.  Take care of you!

[vortex of confusion]

Poetry has helped me get out my anger. The lame punching a pillow thing can help. Talking to yourself out loud, as if you are talking to the person who wronged you can help A LOT. Exercise. Really, I'm not the best at this myself, but that's what's helped me!

I went through a period where I wrote a lot of poetry and did a lot of journaling. I haven't been able to sit down and write anything at all in quite a while. When I think about writing something, all I want to write is "I HATE YOU". That is not good at all. It is actually quite scary. I am in a really down period right now and there is a lot of stuff going on around me. My husband's stuff, my family of origin has a bunch of drama going on right now, one of my daughter's has been facing a bit of a crisis, and I am just getting angrier and angrier because every time I think I have things  together, something else comes along and throws me off kilter. Instead of taking it all in stride and riding it out like usual, I am just angry.

[vortex of confusion]

I know, you feel cheated out of some good years of your life that you can't get back.

The anger lessens once you start to realize this was your choice, your own failings to do anything about it is what you got you there.

The biggest driver behind anger is resentment, as you start to cope better the resentment lessons more to periods of frustration which do not create the simmering anger.

That is not a criticism of you, we all did this.

Once you get your life back on track it will be of a quality you never had before

Thanks for the reminder and encouragement. I think part of the anger is stemming from the fact that I have made these choices and have nobody to blame but myself. I am angry at myself and my partner and my family of origin. And yes, there are a lot of resentments.

[BuildingFromScratch]

Poetry has helped me get out my anger. The lame punching a pillow thing can help. Talking to yourself out loud, as if you are talking to the person who wronged you can help A LOT. Exercise. Really, I'm not the best at this myself, but that's what's helped me!

I went through a period where I wrote a lot of poetry and did a lot of journaling. I haven't been able to sit down and write anything at all in quite a while. When I think about writing something, all I want to write is "I HATE YOU". That is not good at all. It is actually quite scary. I am in a really down period right now and there is a lot of stuff going on around me. My husband's stuff, my family of origin has a bunch of drama going on right now, one of my daughter's has been facing a bit of a crisis, and I am just getting angrier and angrier because every time I think I have things  together, something else comes along and throws me off kilter. Instead of taking it all in stride and riding it out like usual, I am just angry.

It sounds like you're not very comfortable with your anger. I think most of us here aren't. Anger is a good thing, it is reasserting our own value. It is saying "I DESERVED BETTER". Hate on the other hand is unresolved anger/pain. It paints someone or something as black and causes us to hide from our unresolved issues.  I'm not above any of those issues though, I struggle with both myself. I think as long as you find productive ways to express it, you should. It is truly an outrage how they treated us, and how we let ourselves get treated.

[DreamFlyer99]

Vortex--

Oh my goodness-- passive-aggressive and sarcastic, that's me too! All the years I didn't realize that was my anger. I have fought the "passive-aggressive" title, but I guess that's really what sarcasm is about.

All the stuff you're feeling is so normal! It really sucks to realize that you are the one who wasn't protecting yourself. I've just had to see that in a really big way myself. The childhood trauma left my poor little girl feeling so alone, and then I constantly abandoned her again and again when I let myself put up with my uBPDh's rages at me. This is the moment when we realize it sucks to be us.

The awesome part of that is that we are recognizing something new, it's a point of growth (painful thought it is.)

I've been the worst person to judge my feelings. I've told myself it's wrong to be angry, it's wrong to feel resentful, etc. etc. But i'm finally learning to just feel the feelings and know they will pass, and that gives them so much less power to hurt. I'm finally learning to "sit with my feelings." Just let 'em wash over me like a wave and grieve 'em.

Something that has been helpful for me is to get these affirmations and guided imagery cds that are done by Belleruth Naperstek (they have them on iTunes and i'm sure elsewhere.) I've loaded them onto my phone and play them with headphones before I go to sleep. The cd for Trauma I played like 3 times a day for a while--I would lay down and relax and listen. It started getting some important realizations into my head and my heart. Worth checking out! They really helped with the process of learning to just recognize and feel those feelings. And start to heal.

Most important to remember--all you're talking about here is so stinkin' normal! We don't have to like it, but it's normal.

[waverider]

The first step is to know where your anger belongs, this comes as you consolidate on your own values and boundaries. It stops the anger lashing out at side issues and spreading like a cancer.

Feelings are real, it is important to be able see them for what they are, understand their origins and channel them in a way that doesn't create collateral damage.

[vortex of confusion]

It sounds like you're not very comfortable with your anger. I think most of us here aren't. Anger is a good thing, it is reasserting our own value. It is saying "I DESERVED BETTER". Hate on the other hand is unresolved anger/pain. It paints someone or something as black and causes us to hide from our unresolved issues.  I'm not above any of those issues though, I struggle with both myself. I think as long as you find productive ways to express it, you should. It is truly an outrage how they treated us, and how we let ourselves get treated.

You are spot on about me not being comfortable with my anger. Growing up, I only saw anger as a very scary thing. When people got angry, bad things happened and I would get scared and hide. I witnessed way too many instances of anger turning people into monsters because they didn't know how to channel that anger appropriately. I try to keep from being angry as much as possible because I am afraid of becoming a monster.

It is interesting that you bring up hate being unresolved anger and pain. I will never ever forget being a kid and getting in fights with my sisters or even getting annoyed with my siblings (2 sisters and a brother). Whenever I would try to talk to my mother about it, she would always say, "You can't hate your sister." And then she would proceed to tell me all of the reasons that I should be grateful for my sister. She would lay on this guilt trip about how my sister almost died when she was a baby, blah, blah, blah. As a result, letting myself be angry or even express feelings of hatred is something that I don't usually do. All of my anger and pain through out my childhood and my marriage have been buried. I have that running dialog from my mother running through my head as to why it is not okay to be mad or upset or angry or even have fleeting feelings of hatred.

[vortex of confusion]

Oh my goodness-- passive-aggressive and sarcastic, that's me too! All the years I didn't realize that was my anger. I have fought the "passive-aggressive" title, but I guess that's really what sarcasm is about.

I forget what it was that I read that made that light bulb go off. It may have been one of the books on emotional and verbal abuse. Passive agressiveness and sarcasm are all little pieces that add up to abuse. When I first read that book on verbal/emotional abuse, I honestly thought that I was the one that was abusive because of my tendency to be sarcastic or passive aggressive. I had to chronicle different events and think about our entire relationship. I think that is when it dawned on me that I am surrounded by a lot of people that don't know how to handle direct communication. If I say, "I need X." they will hem and haw and screw around or say no. However, if I act like a jerk and get sarcastic and passive aggressive, they will respond. My mother and my husband are both really bad about ignoring me unless I start acting like them.

All the stuff you're feeling is so normal! It really sucks to realize that you are the one who wasn't protecting yourself. I've just had to see that in a really big way myself. The childhood trauma left my poor little girl feeling so alone, and then I constantly abandoned her again and again when I let myself put up with my uBPDh's rages at me. This is the moment when we realize it sucks to be us.

I had to take a deep breath and read this snippet several times. It makes so much sense. It is like being that little girl that is wanting and expecting somebody somewhere in the universe to protect them. Only, I am not a little girl anymore and it is my job to protect myself. The problem is that when I was a kid and would try to protect myself, all hell would break loose. It was easier to get small and quiet and become invisible until it stopped. I have repeated that same pattern with my husband. It was easier to be quiet and let things go than it was to protect myself. When I try to stand up for myself, it becomes a fight and I hate fighting.

I've been the worst person to judge my feelings. I've told myself it's wrong to be angry, it's wrong to feel resentful, etc. etc. But i'm finally learning to just feel the feelings and know they will pass, and that gives them so much less power to hurt. I'm finally learning to "sit with my feelings." Just let 'em wash over me like a wave and grieve 'em.

Thank you so much for this! I can really, really relate to being judgmental towards myself about my own feelings. It is difficult for me to feel the feelings without repressing them or talking myself out of them. Just the fact that I am openly admitting to being angry is a big step for me. I have talked myself out of being angry so many times.

Most important to remember--all you're talking about here is so stinkin' normal! We don't have to like it, but it's normal.

Thank you, thank you, thank you! This, more than anything, means a lot. I have felt so abnormal and so crazy for so long because of my feelings.

[DreamFlyer99]

Oh my friend Vortex,

I feel like you and I have so much the same brains in many ways. Accepting ourselves and our feelings is so hard when we've been stomped on as small children. And we carried those same "survival skills" into our marriages, but they didn't work any better in marriage than in childhood because we didn't realize that "surviving" isn't actually what we want--we want to thrive! We need to thrive! We've repeated our childhoods but they looked different enough that we didn't catch on right away. (Okay, you definitely win this round--me, 30 plus years to catch on! )

But we're getting there, one realization at a time. A year ago I couldn't see that i'm the one who's allowed the abuse. Now I see it as the sad truth it is. I'm not abandoning myself any more, but it takes practice. You're getting there. I'm getting there.

[Ziggiddy]

I can identify with your anger there, Vortex. It can be difficult to know what to do with it. Let me assure you that like all your other emotions it is not likely to consume you although it may feel like that as you stand before it. I mean just for a moment compare it with the emotion of happiness - do you feel any concern over the idea of being consumed with happiness? Probably not! I think feeling a nervousness about emotion is quite natural when emotional systems weren't laid down in a meaningful way at the start. That causes a need to check them against a yardstick.

What would be the worst case scenario of you fully feeling your anger? Are you afraid f something? How do you feel about your sense of self control?

Is it possible to reassure yourself that feeling your anger will not result in backlash?

I know I struggled with feeling angry and it took me quite some time to identify that I always got punished for being angry growing up. Actually it would be more accurate to say I was shamed for it. I would get a huge adrenaline rush if I even tried in later years to assert about something that made me angry.

It might be worth your while to check your memory for times you have expressed anger before and work out what the consequences were.

As far as expressing it healthily,you may wish to thump at pillows or yell at people in your mind. Occasionally out loud. Definitely more useful to imagine it than to carry it out which obviously I'm not endorsing!) Also writing  aletter that you don't intend to send may give you some release.

I also do this great great exercise where I am the prosecutor of a legal case and i am bringing the case against whoever I am angry at to trial. this helps me name the causes of my emotions and puts me in the position of requiring the 'defendant' to be quiet for long enough for me to have my say without being shouted down.

Anyway i think you are making terrific progress by identifying your anger and preparing yourself to move in to that phase of your healing. Well done!

Ziggiddy

[vortex of confusion]

DreamFlyer: It's interesting that my marriage started out so very different than anything I experienced in childhood. My husband didn't seem to be addicted to drama like my family of origin. He seemed so safe. His family of origin seemed so normal. I really thought that my relationship with him would allow me to thrive rather than just survive. I think that is one of the things that has me so angry. I am angry at myself because I was so wrong. There have been so many times when my husband and his behavior remind me of my mother.

Ziggidy: The worst case scenario of me fully feeling my anger is that I lash out and hurt somebody else. I don't want to do that. I was actually talking to my brother about this the other day. We were raised by two people that tend to act on whatever it is they are feeling. I feel like I was programmed to think feeling equals actions, which is really an extension of feeling equals facts. If you feel something, it must be true therefore you must act on it. I have fought that for years.

I feel like I have quite a bit of self control unless I am backed into a corner. When I feel backed in a corner, I tend to come out fighting.

I am not sure that I can reassure myself that being angry will not result in any backlash. My history is full of times when I was told that it was NOT okay for me to be angry. Or, the few times that I actually did get angry, I behaved in ways that were not good.

With my husband, when I get angry, he acts like I have no reason to be angry and then he gets defensive and upset and I know he lacks self control so I don't want to do anything to set him off. It is very much like what happened when I was a kid. If my husband or family of origin isn't around, I think I can handle my anger and have lots of self control. When it is just me and the kids, I am able to say stuff like, "I need some space because I am angry right now." I can tell my kids that I am angry and need space and they seem to respect that without asking a bunch of questions or telling me that I shouldn't be angry. If I tell my husband that I am angry, I feel like he pushes my buttons.

Right now, my way of dealing with big emotions is to go sit on my front porch and smoke cigarettes. I have quit smoking several times but can't seem to stay quit. I have often laughed that I will be able to quit smoking when people quit pi$$ing me off. I know that is not healthy.

[DreamFlyer99]

I think feeling a nervousness about emotion is quite natural when emotional systems weren't laid down in a meaningful way at the start. That causes a need to check them against a yardstick.

I know I struggled with feeling angry and it took me quite some time to identify that I always got punished for being angry growing up. Actually it would be more accurate to say I was shamed for it.Ziggiddy

THAT is perfectly said! My problem exactly! When we didn't learn what to do with our emotions in those formative years we end up making up rules on how to handle them and how great of rules can a 5 year old come up with? So some of us then end up worrying about too big/not big enough? about our emotions. (MEEEE!)

And the shame... .oh the shame! I remember the rush of shame at the realization I HAD MADE A MISTAKE when I was in kindergarten. HOLY. Somebody shoulda loved that little girl and told her everybody makes mistakes, but by 5 I already "knew" I should not be imperfect, and that if I ever stepped out of line I would be made to feel horrible in my soul about it.   

It's interesting that my marriage started out so very different than anything I experienced in childhood. My husband didn't seem to be addicted to drama like my family of origin. He seemed so safe. His family of origin seemed so normal. I really thought that my relationship with him would allow me to thrive rather than just survive. I think that is one of the things that has me so angry. I am angry at myself because I was so wrong. There have been so many times when my husband and his behavior remind me of my mother.

Right now, my way of dealing with big emotions is to go sit on my front porch and smoke cigarettes. I have quit smoking several times but can't seem to stay quit. I have often laughed that I will be able to quit smoking when people quit pi$$ing me off. I know that is not healthy.

Doesn't it say something to you and me that we thought our spouse's families were normal? Shows how ABnormal OURS were! Bahahaha!

I'm pretty sure I believed that my h would support me and love me and allow me to heal from my Poo FOO, because he had issues with his family too so he should understand, right? I interpreted things based on how I would do them, know what I mean? I knew I was loving and he sure talked and looked loving (especially in that dating and early marriage time.) So I was too naïve to recognize that people can look very much one way and feel very much another, or however all that worked. i'd imagine you did something similar, believing he would think the way you thought.

I think anger at ourselves for not seeing this coming is pretty reasonable. It has really made me mad at myself to realize that I was the only person who could have protected me and my sad/terrified little child girl inside, but I was too blind to see it. It was like when a lock is stuck and you try to force it, and usually something just breaks--the lock or the key. My marriage was like that, I kept trying to force it to "work," but that left out the variables of my husband's way of thinking AND any self-awareness and self-preservation. THAT pissed me off bigtime! Here I was so angry at what he was doing to me, but I was actually the one who was letting me down. And I had to get through that anger to see that "okay, the self-awareness and self-preservation starts NOW."

So do like Zig says, pace the floor, argue your case loudly--but for YOU, not at the person themselves. It's an exercise to get our words out that we would uselessly throw at them. They don't care what we think, not really! So why waste our breath? Or our energy? Use it for something that will help you.

When you can say to your kids "I'm angry and need some space" and they get it that you need time to process what you're feeling, AWESOME! you have taught your kids something that you were not taught and your husband does not understand! BE PROUD OF THAT. But don't bother telling him you're angry and need some space--like you have pointed out before, that's just something he can now use against you. Simply act out your boundary and tell him you're going for a walk, or out for coffee, and do it.

That's been one of my therapist's main refrains for me-- "Live your boundaries." I too would try to explain, but it was useless and pointless and only led to another skirmish my h was determined to "win" (because everyone knows a marriage should be a competition, right?   ) You know you need some space, so take some space. He does NOT get it like your children do, so save your energy for you.

I have lived in that place where it seemed the Name of the Game was "Button Pushing." Why give them the satisfaction of getting to play the game when we don't want to?

Vortex, you are learning, you are changing your brain as you go, beginning to recognize the lies you were believing and changing the script in your brain that allowed you to live them out, even though they were scorching your soul.

My drug of choice is pretty much chocolate and possibly more chocolate. We are in process. I have thought at times about smoking because it keeps people from eating, but knowing me I would just end up a fat smoker.

I'm amazed by how much of a triggered response I can have to my husband showing me one facial expression and saying only one word. I can go back to doubting if I am doing the right thing. I can feel guilt in half a heartbeat. We have to learn to gently detach our emotions from them and their emotions. Again, a process.

[vortex of confusion]

THAT is perfectly said! My problem exactly! When we didn't learn what to do with our emotions in those formative years we end up making up rules on how to handle them and how great of rules can a 5 year old come up with? So some of us then end up worrying about too big/not big enough? about our emotions. (MEEEE!)

And the shame... .oh the shame! I remember the rush of shame at the realization I HAD MADE A MISTAKE when I was in kindergarten. HOLY. Somebody shoulda loved that little girl and told her everybody makes mistakes, but by 5 I already "knew" I should not be imperfect, and that if I ever stepped out of line I would be made to feel horrible in my soul about it.   

Oh man, that is so true. Even as an adult, I am having to deal with a lot of this crap from my family of origin. My grandmother is in the hospital right now and there is all kinds of drama around it. My mother has put a password on grandma's hospital account so that nobody but her and my dad can get any information. My mother only gives people the information that she wants them to hear. My oldest sister is a raging b***h. I have been no contact with her for about a year now. I saw her at the hospital and she said that I tried to have her thrown in jail. Nope, I did no such thing. She is the one that called the cops on ME because I wouldn't let her in my house and I didn't want to talk to her. She acted like she was the victim and that everybody was withholding information from her. It doesn't matter what I say or do with my FOO, people are going to make stuff up. I can tell the truth all day long and people are going to make stuff up and be accusatory. And, God forbid I have an emotion and share it with somebody. If I shared anything with anybody, it would later come back and bite me in the butt. I learned early on that I had to be perfect, I had to walk on eggshells, I had to find a way to please everybody and make everybody happy, and I couldn't be sad. I have taken that into adulthood. Every time I try to step out of it, my FOO and my husband will suck me right back in.

Doesn't it say something to you and me that we thought our spouse's families were normal? Shows how ABnormal OURS were! Bahahaha!

If only I had known then what I know now! That is quite hilarious. I hadn't really thought about it like that but that is so unbelievably true. I don't know if I could handle somebody that was normal any more. I feel like I am broken beyond repair some days and that fuels my anger.

I'm pretty sure I believed that my h would support me and love me and allow me to heal from my Poo FOO, because he had issues with his family too so he should understand, right? I interpreted things based on how I would do them, know what I mean? I knew I was loving and he sure talked and looked loving (especially in that dating and early marriage time.) So I was too naïve to recognize that people can look very much one way and feel very much another, or however all that worked. i'd imagine you did something similar, believing he would think the way you thought.

Oh my, yes, I know exactly what you mean. My husband came from a small town in the midwest and lived a very sheltered life. His family wasn't horrible but he was also the youngest and often times felt ignored by his family because he brother was the golden child. It was like we were saving each other. We could get married and leave our familial ties and start our own family and do everything different. I had no way of knowing that he was addicted to porn or that he was so set in his ways that he would stay checked out most of the time. In the early days, it didn't matter as much because I had other things that I could do and there were no children involved. With the birth of each child, things gradually declined.

I think anger at ourselves for not seeing this coming is pretty reasonable. It has really made me mad at myself to realize that I was the only person who could have protected me and my sad/terrified little child girl inside, but I was too blind to see it. It was like when a lock is stuck and you try to force it, and usually something just breaks--the lock or the key. My marriage was like that, I kept trying to force it to "work," but that left out the variables of my husband's way of thinking AND any self-awareness and self-preservation. THAT pissed me off bigtime! Here I was so angry at what he was doing to me, but I was actually the one who was letting me down. And I had to get through that anger to see that "okay, the self-awareness and self-preservation starts NOW."

That is so true. I am still living with my husband and I find that everything he does these days annoys me. I have been trying to force myself to overlook this and that thinking that things would be better if I would learn to be more forgiving or overlook more things or be more accepting. He is being pretty good these days and that is making me even more angry because I know it is an act. It is the same pattern that he has had for years. It is the same pattern that my FOO has had my entire life. Crap will hit the fan and things will get ugly or uncomfortable or dramatic. Once things blow over, everybody is so nice and wonderful and it is like nothing bad every happened. People will be on guard for a while but then once everybody relaxes and lets things go again it is WHABAMMMM! Something else comes up.

I think what makes me the most angry is that there are times when I feel like my husband and I could stay married forever if I could just find it in me to let everything go. If I could accept that he is in a 12 step program and is making slow progress, then everything would be okay. If I could somehow find a way to be the good little wife that follows her husband's lead and takes whatever is given, then we could stay together. It makes me angry that I feel like it is my fault. I don't think he will ever leave me. He may lie, cheat, be a jerk, or whatever but he will never leave. I think it is going to take some major doings on my part for us to go our separate ways. He can talk about it abstractly but whenever I start to get even remotely real I can tell he is bristling and is going to fight me. I don't want that at all.

So do like Zig says, pace the floor, argue your case loudly--but for YOU, not at the person themselves. It's an exercise to get our words out that we would uselessly throw at them. They don't care what we think, not really! So why waste our breath? Or our energy? Use it for something that will help you.

I need to find another place to argue my case. I used to blog a lot but I feel like all of my writing energy has dried up. Writing here helps but I still feel tied up in knots some days.

When you can say to your kids "I'm angry and need some space" and they get it that you need time to process what you're feeling, AWESOME! you have taught your kids something that you were not taught and your husband does not understand! BE PROUD OF THAT. But don't bother telling him you're angry and need some space--like you have pointed out before, that's just something he can now use against you. Simply act out your boundary and tell him you're going for a walk, or out for coffee, and do it.

I can have all sorts of conversations with my daughters. They are really awesome young ladies but they are picking up stuff because of things between me and him. If I don't tell him, then he is going to freak out. It is easier to give him some kind of tidbit than it is to have him nag or badger me. I met him to do the switcheroo with the kids so I could go to work. I was tired and cold and hungry and just feeling bleh. He kept asking if I was okay. I told him that I was cold and tired. Then, he asked me again in email. Ugh! And I read on some of the boards how partners are doing this and that and I see myself. I see myself being distant and cold and behaving in ways that I don't like and that makes me angry.

Today, I had a bit of an epiphany. Yes, I love my husband and I likely always will. However, I keep asking myself: "Who do I love more? Me or him?" I shouldn't have to think about that. I should be able to say that I love myself more than I love him or my family or anybody else. I can't do that yet because it feels too selfish. Every time I have tried to love myself or take care of myself, I have been made to feel selfish or horrible.

I have lived in that place where it seemed the Name of the Game was "Button Pushing." Why give them the satisfaction of getting to play the game when we don't want to?

I know. I feel like I have gotten to a place where him walking into a room pushes my buttons.

Vortex, you are learning, you are changing your brain as you go, beginning to recognize the lies you were believing and changing the script in your brain that allowed you to live them out, even though they were scorching your soul.

My brain has a lot of changing to do. I am trying to heal from a dysfunctional family as well as a dysfunctional marriage. I have certainly learned how to find the fun in dysFUNctional.

My drug of choice is pretty much chocolate and possibly more chocolate. We are in process. I have thought at times about smoking because it keeps people from eating, but knowing me I would just end up a fat smoker.

Yep, that is exactly what I have become. . .a fat smoker!

I'm amazed by how much of a triggered response I can have to my husband showing me one facial expression and saying only one word. I can go back to doubting if I am doing the right thing. I can feel guilt in half a heartbeat. We have to learn to gently detach our emotions from them and their emotions. Again, a process.

Like I said, I get annoyed by everything he does these days. I don't know if he is being sincere, putting on an act, or what. I walk around in a constant state of doubt. When I add the crap with my FOO to his crap, I don't know which way is up some days.

[Grey Kitty]

I missed most of this... .but want to get back to feelings of anger, from a couple different perspectives.

First, feeling angry is very different than REACTING to that anger in a rage aimed at another person. VOC, given your history, I'd say that you are much more at risk of stuffing your anger. Only when you've stuffed so much you can't possibly stuff any more are you at risk of blowing up.

Which brings me to the better and healthier approach.

Try to stay with your feelings. You have reasons to feel angry, and the anger is telling you something that you need to know about.

It is OK to write "I hate my husband" for three pages in your journal if you feel like doing that. (Just make sure he doesn't read it!  )

My take on feelings like these, from a meditation teacher of mine: When we aren't ready to cope with the feelings, we find a way to keep ourselves protected from them, until we are ready to experience them more.

For 16 years, you weren't ready to feel anger at how you were treated. So you found ways to stuff those feelings and not experience them. It was what you needed to do at the time. Today you are in a different place. Perhaps you have more capacity to feel the anger. Or perhaps there is more anger, and you have less capacity to stuff it successfully. Either way, you are ready.

Try to be with those feelings. No need to act on them, at least for right now. Try to be interested in them, just to see what feeling angry is really like. (And don't be too surprised if when you take this sort of interest, the anger may go away for a while. It will probably return later!)

[DreamFlyer99]

Beautifully said, Grey Kitty.

[vortex of confusion]

First, feeling angry is very different than REACTING to that anger in a rage aimed at another person. VOC, given your history, I'd say that you are much more at risk of stuffing your anger. Only when you've stuffed so much you can't possibly stuff any more are you at risk of blowing up.

Yes, I am the master of stuffing my feelings. I am usually a pretty bubbly and happy person. My daughter came to work with me the other day and watched me interact with people. She told me that I am really good with people and that I have a way of setting people at ease. I can look back and see the times when I have blown up. I remember talking to a counselor when I was in high school. The analogy she used was that of filling up a trash can. If you don't periodically take out the trash, it is going to overflow and you are going to have a mess on your hands.

Try to stay with your feelings. You have reasons to feel angry, and the anger is telling you something that you need to know about.

It is OK to write "I hate my husband" for three pages in your journal if you feel like doing that. (Just make sure he doesn't read it!  )

I have such a hard time staying with my feelings. My inclination is to run from them or bury them because I see feelings as nothing but trouble. Feelings alert me to things that I don't want to see. I forget which thread it was and who said it but it caused a bit of a light bulb to go off. With non's feelings tend to follow facts. My husband (or other people) don't have time for me or act like I am there for their use repeatedly, so I feel rejected. Instead of sitting with the feeling of rejection, I talk myself out of it and try to find ways to put a positive spin on it so that I no longer feel rejected. Same way with anger. When I get angry, I tend to try to see the other person's point of view and understand why he/she may have done what he/she did. When I do that, the anger tends to dissipate. In the process, I end up denying my own feelings and telling myself that I have no right to feel whatever feeling it is. I think part of that comes from growing up around people that always had it worse. And then I married somebody that has the same tendency. If I am not feeling well, it seems that he has something that makes him feel worse. I think it goes back to that little saying, "Be grateful for what you have, somebody else has it ten times worse."

My take on feelings like these, from a meditation teacher of mine: When we aren't ready to cope with the feelings, we find a way to keep ourselves protected from them, until we are ready to experience them more.

For 16 years, you weren't ready to feel anger at how you were treated. So you found ways to stuff those feelings and not experience them. It was what you needed to do at the time. Today you are in a different place. Perhaps you have more capacity to feel the anger. Or perhaps there is more anger, and you have less capacity to stuff it successfully. Either way, you are ready.

I don't know if I am ready or if I have backed myself into a corner where I don't have any other choice but to deal with this stuff.

Try to be with those feelings. No need to act on them, at least for right now. Try to be interested in them, just to see what feeling angry is really like. (And don't be too surprised if when you take this sort of interest, the anger may go away for a while. It will probably return later!)

I have definitely been doing a better job of sitting with the anger rather than acting on it. I realize that part of the problem with me and anger is that I was raised to act on anger rather that sit with it. I have example after example of times when people around me got angry and created all sorts of problems. Sitting with it is definitely something new for me.

[waverider]

Anger leads to blocking of insight, this means the anger often spills out into collateral damage or at the best to areas where you cant defend your reason to be angry. Hence the ensuing guilt. Insight is easier to keep focused when you acknowledge and accept your anger before it has too much momentum. To blow a vent is a safety device, dont be afraid to use it.

To admit your anger when it is growing is to keep insight and keep the anger where it is based. The damage that may ensue is far easier to contain and then repair as necessary. Any lessons to be learned from cause and effect is also easier learned for all concerned without distractions.

Dysfunctional FOOs display lack of insight and so often hold themselves up as the benchmark of what is right and "normal'. Growing up in this environment teaches you to either be the same, or to bury anything that might be seen as straying from their abnormal.

[Grey Kitty]

Believe me, I wasn't suggesting you sit with your feelings because it is easy!

I have such a hard time staying with my feelings. My inclination is to run from them or bury them because I see feelings as nothing but trouble. Feelings alert me to things that I don't want to see. I forget which thread it was and who said it but it caused a bit of a light bulb to go off. With non's feelings tend to follow facts.

I've found that my feelings often remind me of things I don't want to see. I see that as a good thing, not a bad thing. Because they often are things I should be paying more attention to.

For instance, I'm NOT normally a jealous guy. A few years back I noticed that I had been feeling jealous in regard to one guy my wife was spending time with for several years before that. I successfully stuffed those feelings, or just reacted to them at the time. We had a few minor fights over this.

Somewhat later, my wife admits to having some kind of obsession with this guy, and having a fantasy life where she wrote in her head something like a romance novel with him and her starring in it. This was at worst an emotional affair only... .but proves that my feelings were guiding me well.

[vortex of confusion]

Anger leads to blocking of insight, this means the anger often spills out into collateral damage or at the best to areas where you cant defend your reason to be angry. Hence the ensuing guilt. Insight is easier to keep focused when you acknowledge and accept your anger before it has too much momentum. To blow a vent is a safety device, dont be afraid to use it.

I am going to have read and reread everything that you wrote. I am really big on insight and being logical. I can see so many instances where I let my anger spill over into areas of my life where it didn't need to be because I was trying to block it, deny it, or simply ignore that it was there.

Dysfunctional FOOs display lack of insight and so often hold themselves up as the benchmark of what is right and "normal'. Growing up in this environment teaches you to either be the same, or to bury anything that might be seen as straying from their abnormal.

THIS! This explains so much. I have tried so hard to be different than them. I have tried to be self-reflective. I have tried to admit my flaws. I have tried to NOT be angry. When I am like them, I get crap for bad behavior but, when I try to be different, they accuse me of trying to be better them, arrogant, or who knows what. No matter what I do with regard to my family of origin it seems like a losing proposition. And that makes me feel sad and angry and helpless and confused. Part of me wants to say that I don't care what they think but the truth is that I do. I would love nothing more than to fit in. What makes it even odder is that I was cast into the role of the golden child to a degree. Everybody tried to protect me while at the same time using me to tell tales and triangulate. I used to listen to all of the crap and run and tell tales. If I shared what others told me, I was a trouble making gossip. If I kept things to myself, I was being secretive or was plotting. It was and is a mess.

[vortex of confusion]

I've found that my feelings often remind me of things I don't want to see. I see that as a good thing, not a bad thing. Because they often are things I should be paying more attention to.

If I see those things, then I will have to deal with them and that sometimes feels way too overwhelming. Denial is a very powerful thing and I am working so hard to see things and address them and stop living in denial.

For instance, I'm NOT normally a jealous guy. A few years back I noticed that I had been feeling jealous in regard to one guy my wife was spending time with for several years before that. I successfully stuffed those feelings, or just reacted to them at the time. We had a few minor fights over this.

Thank you for this example. I know that there have been a lot of times that I have had feelings that seemed weird, unexplainable, or out of the ordinary for me. Sometimes, it is with my FOO and sometimes it is with my spouse and sometimes it is with friends. Instead of paying attention to those feelings and what they may be telling me to look at or think about more closely, I tend to stuff them. As a result, I allow myself to be treated in ways that I don't think are that great. And then, I find that I get angry and don't know what to do with the anger. I get angry because I feel like I deserve better. A really wise person recently told me that saying I deserve better is too outwardly focused because I am expecting other people to treat me in certain ways. Well, if I don't stand up for myself and pay more attention to the red flags that my feelings and insight are trying to alert me to, then I am simply perpetuating a cycle where I put myself into undesirable situations and then get angry.

[DreamFlyer99]

Well, if I don't stand up for myself and pay more attention to the red flags that my feelings and insight are trying to alert me to, then I am simply perpetuating a cycle where I put myself into undesirable situations and then get angry.

HEY! GET OUTTA MY BRAIN!

[Jack_50]

Hello VOC,

In my view it is pretty straightforward what is the matter with you.

You've said that as a child, your parents did not validate your feelings, they invalidated them instead.

This has a huge impact on a child : the child loses the confidence and trust in its own feelings, and "stuffs" them away, like you say.

The child becomes socially backhanded, has only few real friends through life, and focuses on logic and insight; all the while mistrusting and staying away from its own emotions.

I've just described how a lot of boys have been raised; hence the capacity of most men to be logical, direct and having troubles with emotions.

Been there myself... .

The anger you are feeling are your suppressed emotions from your lifetime.  One cannot suppress his/her feelings all the time and go free.  Those feelings are an important part of you as a person, so you have basically been denying a big part of yourself.  Your emotional half is ready to go on the barricades to finally demand recognition for its existence, and you're still trying to keep a lid on it.  After all these years, the pressure inside of you has become enormous.

And to make it worse, you've been around people who have invalidated your feelings time and again, and that has reinforced your belief that emotions are bad and should be suppressed.


They were WRONG, ALL OF THEM!




(please read the previous sentence 20 times, so it will start to dawn)





And if you can accept that fact, you're ready for a way out of this.



Jack

[vortex of confusion]

You've said that as a child, your parents did not validate your feelings, they invalidated them instead.

In all honesty, I don't think the childhood stuff was as hurtful as the stuff that happened in my marriage. Even though my family didn't always validate my feelings, I had friends and other people that did. I have lots of fond memories of having really long talks with my grandma as a kid. She would listen to me and validate my feelings and explain how childish my mother is. And, as a kid, my siblings and I would have times when we validated each other. Even though my FOO was completely dysfunctional and messed up, I still had outlets. As an adult in my marriage, all of those outlets disappeared. Being isolated mixed with the invalidation from my husband did way more damage than some of what I suffered as a child. As a child, people could see that my family was screwed up so I didn't have to pretend. People knew what I was dealing with for the most part so it was a lot easier to cope with. As an adult, nobody really knows what kind of stuff I have had to deal with from my husband because he projects an air of righteousness. He is the good little Catholic boy from a good family and I am the heathen from a dysfunctional family. That has been really tough to deal with and makes me angry because I feel like I am getting punished for being real.

This has a huge impact on a child : the child loses the confidence and trust in its own feelings, and "stuffs" them away, like you say.

The child becomes socially backhanded, has only few real friends through life, and focuses on logic and insight; all the while mistrusting and staying away from its own emotions.

I have never seen a problem with only having a few real friends. I don't need a lot and never really have. Even though my dad is messed up in a lot of ways, one of the things that I did get from him is that I can know something and feel something without having to have other people validate it or back it up. The truth is the truth whether other people can see it or not. My dad and my siblings tried to protect me from a lot of stuff when I was a kid. I attribute a lot of the feelings that I have now to stuff that I have experienced during my 16.5 year marriage to my husband. In college, I went to counseling and dealt with a lot of the stuff from childhood. In the couple year relationship that I had before I met my husband, I think I was pretty good with my emotions. I feel like I could share them with that guy. I have spent a lot of time talking to people online and one of the things that is missing from my relationship with my husband is the ability to share with him. It wasn't that way in the very beginning but over the years I programmed myself to shut down because of the way my husband acted when I tried to share things with him. In 16.5 years of marriage, I don't think he has ever really comforted me. I have been left to deal with everything alone. It wasn't that way when I was a kid because I did have friends and siblings and even school counselors that I could and would reach out and talk to. I never had a problem reaching out to other people until my marriage.

I've just described how a lot of boys have been raised; hence the capacity of most men to be logical, direct and having troubles with emotions.

I have to laugh at this because I have often said that I should have been a boy. Maybe it was because I spent so much time with my dad as a kid. I hung around all kinds of male dominated places as a kid. I always felt safe when I was running the roads with my dad as a kid.

And to make it worse, you've been around people who have invalidated your feelings time and again, and that has reinforced your belief that emotions are bad and should be suppressed.

I actually think the invalidation of my husband has taken more of a toll on me than anything else. In the last several years, he is the one that I have been around most. Up until a year or two ago, the only people that I was around were my husband and my kids. That is a far cry from how I grew up. I grew up getting out and about a lot. My parents had a family business and I was always helping out, talking to customers, and making friends with people. They were more of acquaintances but it was fun to talk to and listen to other people. That exposure to all of those people helped me keep a little bit of a grasp on reality. And when certain family members were in a good place, we would validate each other like crazy.

They were WRONG, ALL OF THEM!

The one that I need to accept as being wrong is my husband. He is the one that has done the absolute most damage to psyche. In a lot of ways, I was the golden child growing up. I was the baby of the family. Everybody protected me and took me under their wing at different times. I may have limited or no contact with my siblings now but when we were growing up, we tried to support each other as best we could. I have lots of memories of hanging out with different siblings while validating each other and talking about the craziness of our lives.

[Grey Kitty]

Some people had an abusive childhood, and do have deep emotional wounds from that... .and probably picked a partner who ultimately cut more deeply in very similar places.

Some of us didn't have that in our childhoods. I didn't get any of that from my parents. Looking back, I did get some from the other kids I went to school with. I too found that I was in a marriage that slowly crept into abusive territory and slowly went deeper in there.

There is no need to force that kind of history on yourself. I still don't find it. Recently I have noticed some of the patterns in my life I want to change do go back to examples I did (or didn't) get as a child, so perhaps you will find something there someday. Still, it wasn't the sort of abuse that many experienced as a child.

VOC, I do see one glaring opportunity in this last post: You had lots of other people providing good validating support as a child, which allowed you to cope better then. Through random events and choices you have made over the last 16+ years you don't have that today. It is past time to change that.

Look for good people in your life and put more time and energy into those new relationships.

Look back at people who were supportive before, who you are not in much contact with, and work on re-kindling those relationships if you can.

[Jack_50]

Hello VOC,

Thank you for the clarifications.   It appears that we've had a similar childhoods.

You estimate that your marriage has had a more negative impact on you than your childhood.  Very valid point.

As a side note : looking at your childhood will help to understand why you are who you are today, and why you accept some things and others not.  Basically, how you got here.

Now, for your current situation : I understand that your husband is the emotional one in your relationship; you seem to be more down to earth about things.

You also indicate that your biggest issue is that he "punished" you for sharing things (emotions), and he never comforts you.  As a result, you have stopped trying to share feelings with him long ago.

You basically feel unsupported, like living with a stranger.  No connection, no closeness.  Just 2 people living under the same roof.

The things is, all humans need to share their feelings, and problems always arise when the 2 partners are not in sync about this: each one has his/her own subjects to share and not share about, each one shares in different ways, each one needs to share different amounts,  etc.

You said it wasn't that way in the beginning of your marriage.  Was there a defined point in time when he changed his reaction to your attempts? Or did it grow gradually?

Jack

[vortex of confusion]

As a side note : looking at your childhood will help to understand why you are who you are today, and why you accept some things and others not.  Basically, how you got here.

I have been looking at my childhood and dealing with that craziness since I was a child. I feel like I am pretty aware of where I came from and am able to see the good and the bad from my childhood.

Now, for your current situation : I understand that your husband is the emotional one in your relationship; you seem to be more down to earth about things.

Being down to earth is one of my strengths. I can sit back and feel stuff and identify identify the source pretty easily. In identifying the source, it makes it easier for me to decide whether or not to act on what I am feeling. One of the counselors that I saw when I was in college boiled everything down to making choices, which was very helpful for me. If I don't like something, what can I do to change it. I don't like my own anger so I want to change it. I don't know that my husband is the emotional one. He is the one that shares the most but that sharing doesn't necessarily have anything to do with his emotions. A lot of times, his emotional responses are completely inappropriate and do NOT fit the situation. Really, I am not really concerned about talking about him or his emotions in this thread. Yes, looking at different pieces of my life can help me figure myself out but there are times that I think people look outside themselves too much. That is one of the things that I have allowed myself to do in my relationship with my husband. I consider myself to be a very strong person and I have very rich internal dialogue and am very self aware. No matter what my husband or family of origin does or has done, how I respond to anger is MY choice. It is up to ME to find ways to deal with my anger and everything else in a way that is in line with MY values. That is another source of anger for me. I think it is ridiculous that grown adults, like my husband more specifically, sit around making poor choices while blaming parents or spouses or other external events. Yes, those external circumstances can cause me to have all kinds of crazy thoughts and feelings and I have done some stupid stuff as a result.

However, I feel that my actions are my responsibility and mine alone.

The things is, all humans need to share their feelings, and problems always arise when the 2 partners are not in sync about this: each one has his/her own subjects to share and not share about, each one shares in different ways, each one needs to share different amounts,  etc.

I am aware of all of that. If you look at Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, you can see that physiological needs are at the base. From there is a need for safety. After that is the need for loving and belonging. Above that are esteem, which is then followed by self-actualization.

I have never ever thought that one person could completely meet another person's needs. We are complex and dynamic beings. People grow and change. There are so many different types of relationships that can meet a person's needs. I guess I am wondering what this has to do with my anger. I am aware of a person's needs. Sure, maybe my anger comes from unmet needs with my husband. I don't think so. I think it has more to do with me knowing what I know and being who I am yet allowing myself to get into the position that I am. I know better. I have read and studied and been looking at some of this stuff for years yet I have gone down the rabbit hole so to speak. 

You said it wasn't that way in the beginning of your marriage.  Was there a defined point in time when he changed his reaction to your attempts? Or did it grow gradually?

I honestly have no idea when his reaction changed. I have been with my husband for 16.5 years. I don't know if he changed or if I did or if it was a little of both. Really, I don't think his reaction is what feeds my anger. I know from experience that you can't share everything with your partner. Some things are best NOT shared. If somebody didn't want to listen to me growing up, I would find somebody that did. I can be pretty precocious at times. If I am not happy with something, I will find a way to change it even if it takes me years to figure it out. I have been working on myself and my marriage for 16.5 years. I spent all that time taking the wrong approach because I didn't have the right information. Given my profession, it makes me angry at myself for being so stupid. My husband is who he is. I don't think that he has really changed that much during our marriage. Yes, I have some anger towards him and my FOO but I think most of my anger is at myself.