How to deal with my anger

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

You've said that as a child, your parents did not validate your feelings, they invalidated them instead.

This has a huge impact on a child : the child loses the confidence and trust in its own feelings, and "stuffs" them away, like you say.

The child becomes socially backhanded, has only few real friends through life, and focuses on logic and insight; all the while mistrusting and staying away from its own emotions.

I've just described how a lot of boys have been raised; hence the capacity of most men to be logical, direct and having troubles with emotions.

This is exactly how I was raised, there was no tolerance for uncomfortable emotions such as anger and hurt.  Suck it up "or I'll give you something to cry about" is what I heard.  Or I'd get a swat for expressing said feelings. Now, I am so damn uncomfortable with my own anger and hurt.  I've spent my life avoiding and repressing it!

VOC, your experience of finding your husband and everything he does annoying is exactly what I experienced in the last few months of my marriage.  All the things that I felt empathy and compassion about ended up driving me nuts in the end.  And I didn't trust his thoughtful gestures or words any longer.  I always saw something sinister in everything he did, good or bad.  I became numb and unfeeling towards him.  I didn't want to give him the attention and affection he seeked.  I think it was my way of detaching emotionally.  Maybe that's what you are doing?  Starting the process of detaching as you've made it pretty clear that is your objective?

[Pingo]

You've said that as a child, your parents did not validate your feelings, they invalidated them instead.

This has a huge impact on a child : the child loses the confidence and trust in its own feelings, and "stuffs" them away, like you say.

The child becomes socially backhanded, has only few real friends through life, and focuses on logic and insight; all the while mistrusting and staying away from its own emotions.

I've just described how a lot of boys have been raised; hence the capacity of most men to be logical, direct and having troubles with emotions.

This is exactly how I was raised, there was no tolerance for uncomfortable emotions such as anger and hurt.  Suck it up "or I'll give you something to cry about" is what I heard.  Or I'd get a swat for expressing said feelings. Now, I am so damn uncomfortable with my own anger and hurt.  I've spent my life avoiding and repressing it!

VOC, your experience of finding your husband and everything he does annoying is exactly what I experienced in the last few months of my marriage.  All the things that I felt empathy and compassion about ended up driving me nuts in the end.  And I didn't trust his thoughtful gestures or words any longer.  I always saw something sinister in everything he did, good or bad.  I became numb and unfeeling towards him.  I didn't want to give him the attention and affection he seeked.  I think it was my way of detaching emotionally.  Maybe that's what you are doing?  Starting the process of detaching as you've made it pretty clear that is your objective?

[vortex of confusion]

Maybe that's what you are doing?  Starting the process of detaching as you've made it pretty clear that is your objective?

Yes, I am in the process of detaching. Even if I wake up one day and decide that I will stay, I still need to detach and become unenmeshed. That is a healthy thing to do no matter what my state in life is. Untangling myself leads to lots and lots of anger. At myself. At him. At everyone.

[waverider]

All the things that I felt empathy and compassion about ended up driving me nuts in the end.  And I didn't trust his thoughtful gestures or words any longer.  I always saw something sinister in everything he did, good or bad.  I became numb and unfeeling towards him.  I didn't want to give him the attention and affection he seeked. 

This is a big problem to be aware of, once this sets it you start triggering them for real reasons of being invalidating, whilst you just don't care and justified in the way you react. It can viciously spiral from there.

You can almost pick the straw that broke the camels back (ie your patience). As you say even the good bits you no longer trust and seem empty to you.

[vortex of confusion]

All the things that I felt empathy and compassion about ended up driving me nuts in the end.  And I didn't trust his thoughtful gestures or words any longer.  I always saw something sinister in everything he did, good or bad.  I became numb and unfeeling towards him.  I didn't want to give him the attention and affection he seeked. 

This is a big problem to be aware of, once this sets it you start triggering them for real reasons of being invalidating, whilst you just don't care and justified in the way you react. It can viciously spiral from there.

I have to be very, very careful with that. I do find myself getting angry and being passive aggressive and making snide comments here and there. That is what I do NOT want to do. It is that whole self righteous thing where I do things when I am angry and make excuses for doing them. I think that is probably what is behind me wanting to get a better grip on my own anger. I don't want to make things any worse because my husband and I have 4 kids together. Like it or not, we are tied together for life!

You can almost pick the straw that broke the camels back (ie your patience). As you say even the good bits you no longer trust and seem empty to you.

I don't know that there was a single straw. For me, it happened so subtly over time and now I don't trust anything that he says or does and that feeds my anger.

[fromheeltoheal]

You can almost pick the straw that broke the camels back (ie your patience).

I don't know that there was a single straw.

For me there were so many straws the whole thing sucked.

[Grey Kitty]

I have to be very, very careful with that. I do find myself getting angry and being passive aggressive and making snide comments here and there. That is what I do NOT want to do. It is that whole self righteous thing where I do things when I am angry and make excuses for doing them. I think that is probably what is behind me wanting to get a better grip on my own anger.

You've kinda got this.

I'd suggest rather than controlling your anger, control your interactions with your H.

Try to be aware that you are feeling angry, and that you want to be passive aggressive or snippy.

Then give yourself a time out, so you don't act on it. (Or at least STOP acting on it once you start! )

Allowing yourself to feel the anger really helps. Reacting in a way that harms your marriage doesn't help...

You know... .your H has said things indicating he notices you are changing... .Most pwBPD are VERY perceptive of emotional stuff going on. They may read correctly that something is going on... .then miss-interpret the reasons completely and act in the worst possible way in response, but that doesn't mean they don't notice!

Telling him that you've been feeling really angry these days, and don't want to either talk to him about it now, OR take it out on him now might be worth considering.

[rockgirl]

As I read and respond and think and study, I find that I am becoming rather angry. It is like I am being drowned by 16.5 years of pent up emotion and it all wants to come out as anger. Has anybody else dealt with this? If so, what are some ways that I can deal with the anger without lashing out at anyone. I know that I have the right to be angry but I don't want my anger to consume me and I don't want to act on it in unhealthy ways. I can see where I am being passive/aggressive and sarcastic in response to my anger.

Maybe meditation, go for a walk and definitely get some help. You've been hurting a very long time and it's time to let it go, but in a healthy way that allows you to heal. These r/s take their toll and leave a lasting mark that makes us feel as though we are the ones with a disorder. You can't keep it in. I hope you find peace soon.

[Pingo]

All the things that I felt empathy and compassion about ended up driving me nuts in the end.  And I didn't trust his thoughtful gestures or words any longer.  I always saw something sinister in everything he did, good or bad.  I became numb and unfeeling towards him.  I didn't want to give him the attention and affection he seeked. 

This is a big problem to be aware of, once this sets it you start triggering them for real reasons of being invalidating, whilst you just don't care and justified in the way you react. It can viciously spiral from there.

This is very true, once I started calling him on his stuff and not being the totally validating person I had been he became way more possessive and out of control.  It did spiral for sure!  This is where contempt started to enter the r/s which spelled doom.

[DreamFlyer99]

My uBPDh would have tiny moments of clarity, like once he said "and when you tried to have boundaries I just made it harder." My jaw dropped. but then the next minute he'd be back to his old ways of trying to control. Hope I haven't already said this in this thread, but my T has said "You can have epiphanies all day long, but unless you act on them... ." I know for me that meant that I couldn't get too excited about his rare moments of clarity, but boy when I come to a new understanding I better act on it!

[maternal]

I went through a period where I wrote a lot of poetry and did a lot of journaling. I haven't been able to sit down and write anything at all in quite a while. When I think about writing something, all I want to write is "I HATE YOU". That is not good at all. It is actually quite scary. I am in a really down period right now and there is a lot of stuff going on around me. My husband's stuff, my family of origin has a bunch of drama going on right now, one of my daughter's has been facing a bit of a crisis, and I am just getting angrier and angrier because every time I think I have things  together, something else comes along and throws me off kilter. Instead of taking it all in stride and riding it out like usual, I am just angry.

In response directly to this sentiment, go on ahead and write it.  You have a right to be angry.  You have a right to all of your feelings  Write it over and over and over again and eventually the words will change.  Your brain will lead your hand toward the answer.  This technique has been used as a form of meditation by some. Writing the same word or short statement over and over again can lead to other words or statements that you're feeling and help you through those, too.  Try it. It may help lead you where you want to be.

You've been through a lot.  Own that.  Respect that. 

[flowerpath]

Hi, vortex.  I can identify with the anger that you experience.  So many deep thoughts have been expressed here that what I say may sound simplistic.  I do have a minimalist mindset.

When I first came here, I was so angry and I wanted to know how I could even forgive.  Waverider’s response that forgiveness is closely tied to resentment moved me to look closer at all that happened over the years and compare it to what I was learning about BPD.  I was able to categorize all of those hurtful behaviors into 7 out of 9 characteristics of BPD and make some sense of what seemed to be senseless.  I realized that like any other person who has a form of mental illness or any kind of disability, this is not a disorder that my uBPDh chose, and I was finally able to forgive the events of the past.

Then I found that I was angry with myself for the ways I had betrayed myself and gotten myself into this mess and stayed in this mess.   I considered how before we married, I did not heed the red flags that told me that something was amiss.  I thought about how I explained away the warnings of my family and friends.  I considered what experiences in my FOO shaped my thinking, what my thoughts had been about his behaviors, how I responded, and why I made the choices that I did. I thought about all of the reasons that I stayed, even before we had children.  I was able to pinpoint the reasoning behind all of my thoughts and choices, and instead of being angry, I was able to love and forgive myself instead.

I think that anger is justified and that it does take time to work through.  Now that I have been able to settle in my mind what the behaviors were and are about, understand why I've made the choices that I have, and forgive him and myself, I know that dwelling on the hurt of the past will take me nowhere good.  I feel that doing what I can to look after myself in the here and now and planning for the future is the best place to put my thoughts efforts.  Of course, that doesn't keep me from being angry at the present behavior from time to time.   

[waverider]

Hi, vortex.  I can identify with the anger that you experience.  So many deep thoughts have been expressed here that what I say may sound simplistic.  I do have a minimalist mindset.

When I first came here, I was so angry and I wanted to know how I could even forgive.  Waverider’s response that forgiveness is closely tied to resentment moved me to look closer at all that happened over the years and compare it to what I was learning about BPD.  I was able to categorize all of those hurtful behaviors into 7 out of 9 characteristics of BPD and make some sense of what seemed to be senseless.  I realized that like any other person who has a form of mental illness or any kind of disability, this is not a disorder that my uBPDh chose, and I was finally able to forgive the events of the past.

Then I found that I was angry with myself for the ways I had betrayed myself and gotten myself into this mess and stayed in this mess.   I considered how before we married, I did not heed the red flags that told me that something was amiss.  I thought about how I explained away the warnings of my family and friends.  I considered what experiences in my FOO shaped my thinking, what my thoughts had been about his behaviors, how I responded, and why I made the choices that I did. I thought about all of the reasons that I stayed, even before we had children.  I was able to pinpoint the reasoning behind all of my thoughts and choices, and instead of being angry, I was able to love and forgive myself instead.

I think that anger is justified and that it does take time to work through.  Now that I have been able to settle in my mind what the behaviors were and are about, understand why I've made the choices that I have, and forgive him and myself, I know that dwelling on the hurt of the past will take me nowhere good.  I feel that doing what I can to look after myself in the here and now and planning for the future is the best place to put my thoughts efforts.  Of course, that doesn't keep me from being angry at the present behavior from time to time.   

Anger is a normal emotion. It is only a bad thing when you cant keep it in perspective and it runs rampant causing collateral damage.

You wont be able to keep it in perspective until you allow yourself to acknowledge it.

Anger is a stubborn beast. It wont be denied, and sooner or later it will break out of the cage. Much better if you let it out for a bit of exercise now and again.

[Jack_50]

VOC,

Forgive me for bring a bit slow on this, but I've seen mixed signals now as to the reason for your anger.  You've said that you think it is anger at yourself for letting those things happen to you and not coming up for yourself; other times you said it was because of life throwing too many challenges at you; and in other messages it was clearly anger at your husband.

Is it possibly a combination of those 3? Accumulated anger from separate sources?

If you don't mind, I think it is important to get to the root of your anger(s).  Otherwise you'll end up firefighting at the wrong house.  As long as you haven't clearly identified the real cause (s), you cannot work on an effective solution.  For example: each one of the three sources mentioned before requires a totally different approach.

I also believe that from understanding comes resolution of anger.

Jack

[vortex of confusion]

VOC,

Forgive me for bring a bit slow on this, but I've seen mixed signals now as to the reason for your anger.  You've said that you think it is anger at yourself for letting those things happen to you and not coming up for yourself; other times you said it was because of life throwing too many challenges at you; and in other messages it was clearly anger at your husband.

Is it possibly a combination of those 3? Accumulated anger from separate sources?

If you don't mind, I think it is important to get to the root of your anger(s).  Otherwise you'll end up firefighting at the wrong house.  As long as you haven't clearly identified the real cause (s), you cannot work on an effective solution.  For example: each one of the three sources mentioned before requires a totally different approach.

I also believe that from understanding comes resolution of anger.

Thanks for pointing that out! Yes, I have been sending very mixed signals about the source of my anger. I am pretty sure that it is a mix of all three. Here lately, there has been a lot going on in my life. My grandma was in the hospital and is now in a nursing facility for rehab. I just found out that my aunt died. My husband is stepping up a little more but I am not putting a lot of stock in it. I have 4 daughters that can be very challenging at times. I work two part time jobs (one from home and the other not).

I am not sure what you mean when you say that each one of the three source requires a different approach. As I have been reading this thread and others as well as living my life on a daily basis, I don't think that there should be a different approach. I have recently been paying closer attention to how I deal with anger and how my kids deal with anger. Since kids tend to mimic the adults, I have been paying more attention to them and have been telling them (and reminding myself): "It is okay to be angry but it is NOT okay to be a jerk when you are angry. If something is making you angry, let's talk about it calmly and see if there is a way that we can make things better. Being angry is perfectly acceptable." And then we go on to talk about it. I try to help them figure out whether or not something can be done about the situation or not. I have been trying to do the same thing with myself.

It doesn't matter what the source of the anger is. It is okay for me to feel the anger. I can look at the sources of it and see if there is anything that I can do to change the situation but I can't sit around being a jerk to those around me. I have seen with myself and my kids that sometimes it is enough to acknowledge the anger. It is enough just to have somebody say, "You know what. I would be angry in your situation too." For me, I think the key to dealing my anger is being able to internally validate it instead of second guessing it or trying to deny it. I am trying to figure out how to validate my own anger and then figure out how to use it as a sign that I need to change something (or not) without being a jerk.

[Jack_50]

I am not sure what you mean when you say that each one of the three source requires a different approach. As I have been reading this thread and others as well as living my life on a daily basis, I don't think that there should be a different approach. I have recently been paying closer attention to how I deal with anger and how my kids deal with anger. Since kids tend to mimic the adults, I have been paying more attention to them and have been telling them (and reminding myself): "It is okay to be angry but it is NOT okay to be a jerk when you are angry. If something is making you angry, let's talk about it calmly and see if there is a way that we can make things better. Being angry is perfectly acceptable." And then we go on to talk about it. I try to help them figure out whether or not something can be done about the situation or not. I have been trying to do the same thing with myself.

It doesn't matter what the source of the anger is. It is okay for me to feel the anger. I can look at the sources of it and see if there is anything that I can do to change the situation but I can't sit around being a jerk to those around me. I have seen with myself and my kids that sometimes it is enough to acknowledge the anger. It is enough just to have somebody say, "You know what. I would be angry in your situation too." For me, I think the key to dealing my anger is being able to internally validate it instead of second guessing it or trying to deny it. I am trying to figure out how to validate my own anger and then figure out how to use it as a sign that I need to change something (or not) without being a jerk.

Allow me to correct my point : all three sources require a different solution.

The approach you use is the correct one in my view : in general, any feeling is always allowed; but not any action coming out of that feeling.  Your kids are learning an important life skill, and I commend you for it.

Concerning self-validation, again: the right approach.  Using self-validation, you basically become independent from others for an important emotional need, and avoid a lot of frustration there.  Let me know if you need more tips on applying it.

Now, about solutions: in my view, anger is fired up by frustration; and frustration comes from a repeatedly unmet need.  As soon as you get the need met, the frustration disappears and there's nothing left to keep the anger alive.

It is good to validate the anger, but as long as the source is not removed, the anger will not go away.  And that's how you end up with more than one of them eating at you in parallel.

As has been pointed out, staying angry is not healthy.  If you need more details to solve the 3 mentioned before, I'd be glad to help.

Jack

[vortex of confusion]

Concerning self-validation, again: the right approach.  Using self-validation, you basically become independent from others for an important emotional need, and avoid a lot of frustration there.  Let me know if you need more tips on applying it.

Now, about solutions: in my view, anger is fired up by frustration; and frustration comes from a repeatedly unmet need.  As soon as you get the need met, the frustration disappears and there's nothing left to keep the anger alive.

It is good to validate the anger, but as long as the source is not removed, the anger will not go away.  And that's how you end up with more than one of them eating at you in parallel.

As has been pointed out, staying angry is not healthy.  If you need more details to solve the 3 mentioned before, I'd be glad to help.

I am not sure that I understand what you are getting at. Frustration can come from all sorts of different sources and I don't think that it necessarily comes from repeatedly having an unmet need. I am thinking about how one day getting cut off in traffic is frustrating and makes me angry but the next day it doesn't. I react differently to the exact same event from one day to the next. There are a whole lot of factors at play.

I disagree with the notion that the source of the frustration has to be removed in order for the anger to go away. For example, let's say that my big toe frustrates me and makes me angry because I keep stubbing it. The way I am reading what you are saying is that, "My big toe is the source of my frustration and anger so it must go away in order for my anger to go away. I don't agree with that at all. Life is full of sources of frustration. They aren't all going to disappear. In my opinion, I feel like a person (more specifically me) should find ways to control him or herself without relying on external sources to change.

[fromheeltoheal]

I am not sure that I understand what you are getting at. Frustration can come from all sorts of different sources and I don't think that it necessarily comes from repeatedly having an unmet need. I am thinking about how one day getting cut off in traffic is frustrating and makes me angry but the next day it doesn't. I react differently to the exact same event from one day to the next. There are a whole lot of factors at play.

I disagree with the notion that the source of the frustration has to be removed in order for the anger to go away. For example, let's say that my big toe frustrates me and makes me angry because I keep stubbing it. The way I am reading what you are saying is that, "My big toe is the source of my frustration and anger so it must go away in order for my anger to go away. I don't agree with that at all. Life is full of sources of frustration. They aren't all going to disappear. In my opinion, I feel like a person (more specifically me) should find ways to control him or herself without relying on external sources to change.

One thing that helps is realizing anger is a secondary emotion; there's always something underneath it, be it a feeling of disrespect, rejection, condescension, patronization, whatever, and what they all have in common is a lack of love.  We feel that lack of love, it hurts, we say fck that no one's going to treat us that way, and we get pissed.  Not a bad option really, considering we could just conclude we're unlovable and live with that.  Anger is better.

The problem is when we get stuck in the anger and don't dig under it, feel whatever it was, process it, and grow and act accordingly.  Then the anger can come out in a lot of inappropriate directions and become chronic; I know people like that, I've been that guy.  So although anger gives us a feeling of strength and may feel better than the hurt underneath it, it wears on us, and it's better to stop, breath, be very honest with ourselves about what's really going on, live in those feelings until they're processed, and then get on with our bettered lives.  Sometimes, as in the case of my ex, there was a lot of digging to do and things revealed themselves over time, but the process is the same.

One man's opinion... .

[waverider]

I am not sure that I understand what you are getting at. Frustration can come from all sorts of different sources and I don't think that it necessarily comes from repeatedly having an unmet need. I am thinking about how one day getting cut off in traffic is frustrating and makes me angry but the next day it doesn't. I react differently to the exact same event from one day to the next. There are a whole lot of factors at play.

I disagree with the notion that the source of the frustration has to be removed in order for the anger to go away. For example, let's say that my big toe frustrates me and makes me angry because I keep stubbing it. The way I am reading what you are saying is that, "My big toe is the source of my frustration and anger so it must go away in order for my anger to go away. I don't agree with that at all. Life is full of sources of frustration. They aren't all going to disappear. In my opinion, I feel like a person (more specifically me) should find ways to control him or herself without relying on external sources to change.

One thing that helps is realizing anger is a secondary emotion; there's always something underneath it, be it a feeling of disrespect, rejection, condescension, patronization, whatever, and what they all have in common is a lack of love.  We feel that lack of love, it hurts, we say fck that no one's going to treat us that way, and we get pissed.  Not a bad option really, considering we could just conclude we're unlovable and live with that.  Anger is better.

Anger is an emotional reaction, that follows on the back of another emotion, as fromheeltoheal points out. As a result the real trigger for anger is often not always apparent and we can hang blame for it on the latest issue. At times even looking for new reasons to explain anger that already exists.  We bandwagon issues that otherwise be a problem eg "and another thing that gives me that drives me nuts is when... "etc

This makes resolving it difficult. pwBPD are the extreme examples of this, but we all do it to some extent.

Often it is a result of compounding triggers, hence the reason anger management is quite a difficult topic in itself.

[fromheeltoheal]

One thing that helps is realizing anger is a secondary emotion; there's always something underneath it, be it a feeling of disrespect, rejection, condescension, patronization, whatever, and what they all have in common is a lack of love.  We feel that lack of love, it hurts, we say fck that no one's going to treat us that way, and we get pissed.  Not a bad option really, considering we could just conclude we're unlovable and live with that.  Anger is better.

Anger is an emotional reaction, that follows on the back of another emotion, as fromheeltoheal points out. As a result the real trigger for anger is often not always apparent and we can hang blame for it on the latest issue. At times even looking for new reasons to explain anger that already exists.  We bandwagon issues that otherwise be a problem eg "and another thing that gives me that drives me nuts is when... "etc

This makes resolving it difficult. pwBPD are the extreme examples of this, but we all do it to some extent.

Often it is a result of compounding triggers, hence the reason anger management is quite a difficult topic in itself.

And also, I noticed that when I did start really digging under the anger around my ex and the relationship and started processing some of that, the floodgates opened and issues, and their anger, I'd been successfully repressing for years bubbled up.  Sucks to get pissed off about things that happened years ago, but hey, if it's in there it's gotta go, and fortunately I didn't go to jail as all that crap came up, but ultimately it turned out to be the biggest gift of the relationship, an emotional purge I didn't know I needed.

[Jack_50]

I am not sure that I understand what you are getting at. Frustration can come from all sorts of different sources and I don't think that it necessarily comes from repeatedly having an unmet need. I am thinking about how one day getting cut off in traffic is frustrating and makes me angry but the next day it doesn't. I react differently to the exact same event from one day to the next. There are a whole lot of factors at play.

You have trouble understanding because you need to dig deeper for the source, and connect it to your needs.

Getting cut off in traffic does bother you when you are already stressed, otherwise it does not. The source is your unmet need for  control of your life, and your need to be relaxed. If those needs are unmet, you will get frustrated by someone cutting you off.

And also : the frustration from being cut off will also appear when someone carelessly crosses the street right in front of your car.  The frustration is actually the same one as the one from being cut off, because in both cases it is linked to the same unmet need; it just gets activated by different circumstances.

I disagree with the notion that the source of the frustration has to be removed in order for the anger to go away. For example, let's say that my big toe frustrates me and makes me angry because I keep stubbing it. The way I am reading what you are saying is that, "My big toe is the source of my frustration and anger so it must go away in order for my anger to go away. I don't agree with that at all. Life is full of sources of frustration. They aren't all going to disappear. In my opinion, I feel like a person (more specifically me) should find ways to control him or herself without relying on external sources to change.

Same applies here as well: your toe is not the source of your frustration,  but your unmet need to live without pain.  By wearing protective shoes, or removing that sharp corner cabinet, you will not hurt yourself anymore, so you fulfill your need of a pain-free life, your frustration disappears and your anger "about the problematic furniture" too.

It takes some practice to get to the bottom of things,  but it will give you so much power over your life once you start to get the hang of it.

Jack

[vortex of confusion]

Same applies here as well: your toe is not the source of your frustration,  but your unmet need to live without pain.  By wearing protective shoes, or removing that sharp corner cabinet, you will not hurt yourself anymore, so you fulfill your need of a pain-free life, your frustration disappears and your anger "about the problematic furniture" too.

Why wear protective shoes or remove the cabinet? Why not be more mindful and pay more attention? Why not keep a light on or look for other options? Sometimes, there is pain in life no matter how you try to protect yourself or what precautions you take. That is part of life. It doesn't make sense to me to expect life to be pain free or easy or anything like that. For every thing you remove to keep you from being angry, there is going to be something else that could potentially make you angry. It doesn't make sense to me to go around manipulating and changing the environment in hopes that you will be less angry. Sure, that might help but it isn't always realistic.

Sure, a person may have a need to live without pain but that is a completely unrealistic expectation. Stuff happens. It isn't always possible to wear protective shoes or get rid of problematic things.

I don't think I am making myself very clear. For me, overanalyzing things and getting to the bottom of it is going to agitate me and make me even more angry than I already am. I know my tendencies to ruminate. Why can't I simply acknowledge my anger, deal with it, and move on. Why do I need to sit and psychoanalyze myself to find out the exact source of my anger? I am not an angry person. Even when I get angry, it isn't something that lasts very long. Sure, I occasionally remember something from childhood and it makes me mad. I usually get over it by thinking, "It was in the past. I can't change that no matter what happens. What I can do is make sure that I do not do those same things."

I am sure that I am contradicting myself. Whatever anger I was feeling when I started this thread has disappeared. I don't know how or when it disappeared but it did. The act of acknowledging it and sitting with it seemed to do the trick. Will I get angry again? I can almost guarantee that I will. People have moments of anger all of the time.

[fromheeltoheal]

For me, overanalyzing things and getting to the bottom of it is going to agitate me and make me even more angry than I already am.

So don't go to the bottom of it, go under it, to whatever's really going on underneath.  Anger is secondary.

Why do I need to sit and psychoanalyze myself to find out the exact source of my anger?

So you can process that feeling until it's resolved.  Otherwise we just get stuck in the anger, it can show up in inappropriate places, it's stressful and it will age us.

[Jack_50]

Why wear protective shoes or remove the cabinet? Why not be more mindful and pay more attention? Why not keep a light on or look for other options? Sometimes, there is pain in life no matter how you try to protect yourself or what precautions you take. That is part of life. It doesn't make sense to me to expect life to be pain free or easy or anything like that. For every thing you remove to keep you from being angry, there is going to be something else that could potentially make you angry. It doesn't make sense to me to go around manipulating and changing the environment in hopes that you will be less angry. Sure, that might help but it isn't always realistic.

Sure, a person may have a need to live without pain but that is a completely unrealistic expectation. Stuff happens. It isn't always possible to wear protective shoes or get rid of problematic things.

It seems that we're talking about different kinds of anger here.  I am talking about deep and long term anger that keeps resurfacing over and over again.  I had the impression that that was what you were mentioning when you started this thread.

Sure, we all get upset and hurt by everyday issues in life, and those are hard to avoid if you don't want to spend your life in a bunker.  But that was not the the topic I was focusing on.

In his context, the toe stubbing example (for me) was not about the hurt and self-blame you feel when stubbing yourself once, but about the frustration and anger that grows after hurting yourself for the 10th time. Looks like I have misunderstood you there.

I don't think I am making myself very clear. For me, overanalyzing things and getting to the bottom of it is going to agitate me and make me even more angry than I already am. I know my tendencies to ruminate. Why can't I simply acknowledge my anger, deal with it, and move on. Why do I need to sit and psychoanalyze myself to find out the exact source of my anger? I am not an angry person. Even when I get angry, it isn't something that lasts very long. Sure, I occasionally remember something from childhood and it makes me mad. I usually get over it by thinking, "It was in the past. I can't change that no matter what happens. What I can do is make sure that I do not do those same things."

I am sure that I am contradicting myself. Whatever anger I was feeling when I started this thread has disappeared. I don't know how or when it disappeared but it did. The act of acknowledging it and sitting with it seemed to do the trick. Will I get angry again? I can almost guarantee that I will. People have moments of anger all of the time.

You cannot analyse a situation when being angry.  First you need to get back to a calm state, like you say, and only then are you able to investigate further.  On that part I definitely agree with you.

But it becomes problematic if the analysis is left out.  The anger is not resolved, you've only covered it up.  With the next similar event, that same anger will come out of hiding again, with the frustration of the current event added to it.  In that sense, anger can only grow, until it is resolved.

To prove this point : can you tell us now with certainty that you are not angry anymore at your husband ?

And there are huge benefits to doing the analysis; the biggest one being that you get to know your needs, and in that way yourself.  Making it easier to know what to avoid and what to go for in the future.

And let's not forget that it will enable you to  resolve that slumbering internal  anger; and with that, removing an obstacle for happiness.

I understand you are currently overwhelmed;  so it is not the right time to start analysing. Once you've been able to slow down again, feel free to check it out.

Jack

[vortex of confusion]

To prove this point : can you tell us now with certainty that you are not angry anymore at your husband ?

In all honesty, I am not sure how to answer that because I am not sure if I am angry at him or if I am more angry at myself. He is who he is and I cannot change that just as my family of origin is who it is. Nothing that I say or do will ever change any of that. Being angry at them is a waste of time. It is like being angry at a cat for being a cat. If I cannot handle dealing with all of the things that come with having a cat, then maybe I shouldn't have a cat. Just like with my husband and others. If I am going to get angry at them for being who they are, then I need to reconsider how they fit into my life, if at all. So, the only place left is for me to be angry with myself because I am the only one that I can change. I am the only one that has any kind of control over who I am and how I react in any given situation.

I understand you are currently overwhelmed;  so it is not the right time to start analysing. Once you've been able to slow down again, feel free to check it out.

I don't think I am quite to a place where I can pinpoint or analyze anything. I have spent a whole lot of years analyzing things to death trying to figure out the magic formula to make my marriage better.

[waverider]

To prove this point : can you tell us now with certainty that you are not angry anymore at your husband ?

In all honesty, I am not sure how to answer that because I am not sure if I am angry at him or if I am more angry at myself. He is who he is and I cannot change that just as my family of origin is who it is. Nothing that I say or do will ever change any of that. Being angry at them is a waste of time. It is like being angry at a cat for being a cat. If I cannot handle dealing with all of the things that come with having a cat, then maybe I shouldn't have a cat. Just like with my husband and others. If I am going to get angry at them for being who they are, then I need to reconsider how they fit into my life, if at all. So, the only place left is for me to be angry with myself because I am the only one that I can change. I am the only one that has any kind of control over who I am and how I react in any given situation.

I understand you are currently overwhelmed;  so it is not the right time to start analysing. Once you've been able to slow down again, feel free to check it out.

I don't think I am quite to a place where I can pinpoint or analyze anything. I have spent a whole lot of years analyzing things to death trying to figure out the magic formula to make my marriage better.

To be honest most time I am angry is because I am angry at  "the situation" that I may be in at any one time. There is not always someone to blame, nor is there need to place blame. The need to place blame is often just an attempt to to sooth frustration. Understanding it is simply "the situation" which can be no more than a coincidence of unfavorable factors, helps.

Either way getting past it is a lot easier once you are capable of understanding the root cause of the frustration that is driving the anger.

[DreamFlyer99]

Something I've noticed about myself is that when presented with the same idea over time, I've seen my response to it change as I grew in understanding. For instance, I listen to Affirmations and Guided Imagery as a way to deal with trauma etc., and there's this one line I really stumbled over at first: "i will accept my sadness, release my anger, and forgive myself."

When I first heard the "forgive myself" one I thought WHAT DO I HAVE TO FORGIVE MYSELF FOR? THEY DID IT TO ME! but as I've learned more about how I let myself down I started saying Ah! I need to forgive myself for not keeping myself safe from it where I could. Clearly I couldn't do a lot as a small child to protect myself from my parents, but in my marriage I really let myself down.

So I wonder, what if you were to simply write down in your journal the situations that drive your anger, and then revisit that list in a month? I bet you'll see where your understanding changes over time.

AND THERE'S A MAGIC FORMULA FOR MARRIAGE? Dang girl! Don't we all wish! I kept trying to find one but I failed. I was the only one willing to participate fully, and it sounds like that's where you are too.

[vortex of confusion]

When I first heard the "forgive myself" one I thought WHAT DO I HAVE TO FORGIVE MYSELF FOR? THEY DID IT TO ME! but as I've learned more about how I let myself down I started saying Ah! I need to forgive myself for not keeping myself safe from it where I could. Clearly I couldn't do a lot as a small child to protect myself from my parents, but in my marriage I really let myself down.

I can relate to that. I think I have more anger towards myself than I do my spouse or anybody else. I have been reading some of my old blog posts and it makes me feel like such a friggin' fraud. I wrote stuff about micromessages, not trying to fix other people, take a long hard look at myself, detachment, and whole bunch of other stuff that is frequently discussed here. Most of it was in the context of parenting but a lot of it was about relationships in general. That was stuff from 2011 so it isn't that old. In so many of the posts, I talked about my husband in such positive terms. I even talked about my FOO in a very favorable light. Reading that stuff made me have a sick feeling in my stomach. Not sure why. I guess it is because I feel like a complete and utter fraud.

So I wonder, what if you were to simply write down in your journal the situations that drive your anger, and then revisit that list in a month? I bet you'll see where your understanding changes over time.

I have a couple of different journals. I have blogs, print notebooks, poetry, and all kinds of stuff that I have written over the years. I don't really see myself making much progress in anything. I just feel like a fraud. I feel really broken and it makes me angry that I don't know how to fix myself.

AND THERE'S A MAGIC FORMULA FOR MARRIAGE? Dang girl! Don't we all wish! I kept trying to find one but I failed. I was the only one willing to participate fully, and it sounds like that's where you are too.

Yep, that is where I am at too. Some days are better than others. I will think that he is going to step up to the plate only to have something set him/us back. If I look back at most of our relationship, I feel like I have always been the one in the driver's seat. That gets exhausting.

[fromheeltoheal]

Reading that stuff made me have a sick feeling in my stomach. Not sure why. I guess it is because I feel like a complete and utter fraud.

That's one option, another is you were in denial then, which is just a coping mechanism, and you've grown enough since then to see it now.  Better to celebrate these things than flog ourselves.

[formflier]

 

Thanks for your participation in this topic.

It's something that all of us need to think deeply about.

Some of you may want to continue this topic.  Please start a new thread to continue the discussion.  This thread will now be locked.

Formflier