Does setting boundaries actually work?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Greetings everyone. I hope the Americans on here had a good thanksgiving free from too much family drama/BPD drama.

I was wondering about those of you who have set boundaries with your BPD person. Did you tell them you were setting a boundary and has it actually helped?

My parents divorced when I was a child and my dad was pretty darn absentee all my life. After many years I finally managed to let go of my anger towards him and now we have a pretty nice relationship. We have a lot in common and I generally don't feel stressed out interacting with him.

Unfortunately, my BPD mother still views him as the devil. She knows that I talk to him although I never discuss it with her. In last month I started writing down when I talked to my mom and whether or not she mentioned my dad (it's never in a positive context, only negative) because I was curious to see if she actually brings him up as often as I think she does. The answer is a resounding yes. Easily 9 out of 10 conversations with her involves some dig at him - sometimes it's a long rant and other times it's a comment about "that sperm donor, your father" or "the man formerly known as your father" etc. When this happens I tend to not say anything and do my best to change the topic as soon as I can. Today she called me to tell me that my enmeshed brother is so hurt by our dad and doesn't understand why my other brother and I have been willing to interact with him ("how he gets to have a relationship with you despite never being a parent or doing any of the work"

So lately I've been thinking about setting a boundary with her and asking her to avoid discussing my dad with me. I can't imagine that she will take it well but I feel like I really need to do this for my own peace of mind.

So what I was wondering is: those of you who have set boundaries, did you explicitly tell your BPD person that you were doing it and, if so, how did you go about it? What was the reaction - did things get worse? Did they get better? Generally, what was the fallout/result?

[K1313]

Greetings everyone. I hope the Americans on here had a good thanksgiving free from too much family drama/BPD drama.

I was wondering about those of you who have set boundaries with your BPD person. Did you tell them you were setting a boundary and has it actually helped?

My parents divorced when I was a child and my dad was pretty darn absentee all my life. After many years I finally managed to let go of my anger towards him and now we have a pretty nice relationship. We have a lot in common and I generally don't feel stressed out interacting with him.

Unfortunately, my BPD mother still views him as the devil. She knows that I talk to him although I never discuss it with her. In last month I started writing down when I talked to my mom and whether or not she mentioned my dad (it's never in a positive context, only negative) because I was curious to see if she actually brings him up as often as I think she does. The answer is a resounding yes. Easily 9 out of 10 conversations with her involves some dig at him - sometimes it's a long rant and other times it's a comment about "that sperm donor, your father" or "the man formerly known as your father" etc. When this happens I tend to not say anything and do my best to change the topic as soon as I can. Today she called me to tell me that my enmeshed brother is so hurt by our dad and doesn't understand why my other brother and I have been willing to interact with him ("how he gets to have a relationship with you despite never being a parent or doing any of the work"

So lately I've been thinking about setting a boundary with her and asking her to avoid discussing my dad with me. I can't imagine that she will take it well but I feel like I really need to do this for my own peace of mind.

So what I was wondering is: those of you who have set boundaries, did you explicitly tell your BPD person that you were doing it and, if so, how did you go about it? What was the reaction - did things get worse? Did they get better? Generally, what was the fallout/result?

[dotterof1]

 

I can understand your frustration and desire to set a boundary about that topic. To answer your question, yes, boundaries have definitely worked- for me at least.

The one thing to know is that when a boundary is set, the BPD person typically tries to cross them, over and over and over again. You have to stay firm. When you let them cross it, they learn what it takes to bring that boundary down. In my experience, setting the boundaries was very difficult. It took a lot of practice and she got worse for a while trying to get me to cave. Also, I didn't clearly say, "we will not discuss xyz" I kept avoiding the topic and when it was brought back up I let her know it made me feel uncomfortable. She insulted me and was upset at me. Like I said, she did all she could to get me to break, but I held my ground and now we seldom discuss my topic.

They work, but just know it is very difficult to get to that point.

[K1313]

Also, I didn't clearly say, "we will not discuss xyz" I kept avoiding the topic and when it was brought back up I let her know it made me feel uncomfortable. She insulted me and was upset at me. Like I said, she did all she could to get me to break, but I held my ground and now we seldom discuss my topic.

They work, but just know it is very difficult to get to that point.

Well I've been trying this tactic of avoiding the topic and it doesn't seem to be helping but perhaps that's because I've not been directly telling her it makes me uncomfortable.

Right now I'm leaning towards writing her a letter/email that starts off by validating her feelings ("I know you're angry and hurt over... ." and then dives into establishing the boundary I'm looking for.

I know that it's a big step to be doing this but sometimes I feel like such a baby for agonizing over this so much. The fallout from trying to deal with things directly with her can be really overwhelming. My partner and I have described her moods/reactions as like dealing with a tornado - once you see it coming all you can really do is hunker down and wait for it to pass.

[Seoulsister]

So what I was wondering is: those of you who have set boundaries, did you explicitly tell your BPD person that you were doing it and, if so, how did you go about it? What was the reaction - did things get worse? Did they get better? Generally, what was the fallout/result?

I have the same situation with my BPDm who speaks negatively about my dad. It's crazy because she filed for divorce and couldn't be talked out of it, but he's now the devil. She hates his current wife and stalks them on Facebook. This is going on 15 years now.

I refuse to speak about my dad with BPDm and remind her when she brings him up that we aren't going to talk about him--not his health, not his holiday attire in photos, not his wife, nothing. When this boundary was first enforced, she threw tantrums about it and tried to push it many times. I ended up hanging up when that happened. She will still find ways to try and broach the subject, but I can tell where she's headed 3 or 4 sentences into her fishing expedition, and I shut it down immediately.

Every time I tell her we won't discuss him and why it hurts me to hear these things, she says she doesn't understand why it upsets me.   She's in her own little world.

So yes, this boundary does work, though it's still being tested fairly often.

[Trollvaaken]

My T has told me to write a letter to my uBPD mum about how much I love her (etc... .), BUT how I wish she didn't discuss my father (they are still together because my dad is clueless and my mum worries she won't get as much money out of him as she would hope) nor her sex life with her lovers.

I'm not obliged to send it, but I will stress that just because I don't want to hear about dad, that doesn't mean I am on his side more than hers.

I don't know how to set up boundaries either since I never had boundaries in the past. I guess I should say it explicitly, or send that letter, as I have tried ignoring the issue when she discusses it, but it isn't always easy especially since she keeps prodding me about the very issue I don't want to discuss with her.

So, the take-away message seems to me: it works, but you have to constantly uphold them and deal with tantrums.

[jdtm]

Right now I'm leaning towards writing her a letter/email

Please, think twice about this.  Anything and everything you say in this letter or e-mail will be used against you, misinterpreted against you and totally misunderstood, with you of course, being in the wrong.  And, she will have proof (in her eyes).  At least, this was my experience ... .

[Pilate]

Boundaries work. However, boundaries are about you. If you are setting boundaries with the intention or mindset of getting the other person to change his/her behavior, then it is not going to work. Boundaries aren't about controlling or changing another person. Boundaries are about you and creating habits that represent your values.

If you value being treated respectfully and treating others with respect, then you might say to your mom the next time she starts in with negative comments about your dad, something like, "Mom, I value our time together, but I am uncomfortable when we start talking about my dad. If we can't change the subject, I'm going to have to take a break and call you back later (or leave and make arrangements for getting together another time)."

Then, you have to follow through on this boundary every. single. time. she brings up your dad. Be ready that your mom is going to push against any new behavior from you, so you need to be very prepared for her increased negative behavior and know this is normal. Escalation--extinction burst--is part of the pattern and process. You are not doing anything wrong. Boundaries are not to stop the person from doing what they are going to do. Boundaries are about helping you. Be aware: setting boundaries often feels very uncomfortable. I actually feel quite panicky and anxious because it seems like I am hurting the other person, but I have to realize I am responsible for my feelings and they are responsible for their feelings.

Setting new boundaries takes time. We set a boundary a year ago with my uNPD MIL about making plans. We value our family time and being able to prepare to welcome guests into our home.The boundary is we need to be asked in advance if a) she wants us to attend a function with/for her or b) she wants to stay with us for a visit. Guess what? She stayed in hotels for almost a year because she chose not to ask in advance to stay with us. Guess what? In the past two months, she has contacted us in advance (1-2 weeks, which is huge) to attend events and to stay with us.

Have you read the tools and workshops about boundaries, K1313? "Boundaries: Living Our Values" might be helpful for you, too: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0

Pilate

[K1313]

Right now I'm leaning towards writing her a letter/email

Please, think twice about this.  Anything and everything you say in this letter or e-mail will be used against you, misinterpreted against you and totally misunderstood, with you of course, being in the wrong.  And, she will have proof (in her eyes).  At least, this was my experience ... .

Interesting. I opted to write a letter because not only could I avoid her initial Waify rage, I could choose my words carefully -something that I struggle with once she's raging. Additionally, unlike a phone call (we live in different states so face to face was out) if she tries to claim I said something that I didn't, I have a copy of my exact words.

But I also didn't put anything extra personal in my letter. I can see how if you really, really opened up emotionally that kind of documentation could come back to bite you.

[Edgewood]

Hello, K1313,

I have found boundaries to be IMMENSELY beneficial to my happiness.  I can't explain the level of freedom I have experienced since realizing that I needed to do this.  As dotterof1 stated, you have to continually enforce them, but it's worth it.

One thing that I have learned about boundaries is not to try to explain to people (BPD or otherwise) why I am setting them.  I simply tell my loved one, "I don't want to hear about _____ anymore," or "I don't want you to do that in my home anymore," etc.  Explanations only work with people who actually WANT to understand you. 

Best of luck to you!

[Daliah]

But I also didn't put anything extra personal in my letter. I can see how if you really, really opened up emotionally that kind of documentation could come back to bite you.

I can tell you from experience that a very matter-of-factly worded letter describing a dynamic on the basis of things that happened and that may even have been acknowledged by the pwBPD previously can be misinterpreted and misused.

If it's not fully in their favour, someone with strong BPD traits is apparently going to construe criticism as an attack, and then all bets are off.

Depending on how intertwined one's social circle and support system are with the pwBPD's, that can be a real threat or at least a real problem, and it can lead to a loss of contact with far more people than originally intended. And it doesn't take a highly personal and emotional letter.

That's why I understand jdtm's caution.

[cleotokos]

K1313, boundaries are immensely helpful. I thought dotterof1's reply was great. I had a really hard time learning to set boundaries with my uBPDm. I still struggle. At first I felt very guilty, as of course she thinks other people's boundaries are just us being "mean" to her for no reason. But the payoff is incredible. Freedom, as somebody else mentioned.

[K1313]

But I also didn't put anything extra personal in my letter. I can see how if you really, really opened up emotionally that kind of documentation could come back to bite you.

I can tell you from experience that a very matter-of-factly worded letter describing a dynamic on the basis of things that happened and that may even have been acknowledged by the pwBPD previously can be misinterpreted and misused.

If it's not fully in their favour, someone with strong BPD traits is apparently going to construe criticism as an attack, and then all bets are off.

Depending on how intertwined one's social circle and support system are with the pwBPD's, that can be a real threat or at least a real problem, and it can lead to a loss of contact with far more people than originally intended. And it doesn't take a highly personal and emotional letter.

That's why I understand jdtm's caution.

I hear what you're saying and I do anticipate she will approach my brother (the one who is enmeshed) with it and likely create more conflict between him and me.

I once spent weeks carefully crafting a letter to my brother about something he did that had upset me and he wrote back angrily to tell me I was being "too diplomatic".   so I totally get that even the most carefully worded letter isn't protection from a rage or fallout.

I guess I should have been more clear: for me, the letter approach just gives me a little distance from her initial rage. Those rages take such a toll on me and so I needed the space a letter provides.

But you and jdtm are both making valid points. Didn't mean to imply that as long as your letter is emotionless then you're safe from BPD drama. It's just a matter of what approach worked for me. 

[Kitty45]

Hello!  I too have decided it was time to set some boundaries with my BPD mom and let me tell you, it is not easy.  Borderline Personality Disorder is such a tough thing for people who suffer from it to recognize.  Often they become very defensive, even when you make it very clear that it's a behavior you have an issue with and not the person.

My story is long and complex, I have a diagnosed BPD mom and a sister as well.  I have been no contact with my sister for a few years after a major blow up over the holidays.  I'm now embroiled in another episode with my mother.  Both really hate the idea of boundaries, and both get very upset when you say "You've crossed my line and it can't happen anymore".  

Since I clearly haven't done it right, I can offer little advice on how to set your personal boundaries without creating a lot of drama and crisis. But what advice I can offer is to get yourself a therapist.  Preferably one that has some experience with BPD.  It has helped me immensely in several ways; not the least of which is learning to engage without making it personal and becoming a sobbing puddle of emotional turmoil.  

As far as letter writing goes, I prefer it. This is the only way I address the behavior because this way I have solid proof of what I did and did not say.  All too often BPD sufferers will turn the things you said into something entirely different or deny they said something these most definitely did say.  I keep the messages so I don't lose my own sanity going around and around on the crazy carousel.

You must find a way to remember yourself and your own mental stability in all of this.  It is always okay for you to set boundaries and expectations, even when your family members don't understand or don't like it. You have a right to be treated with respect and with care.

My wisest best friend told me to think about how my mother talks to me and what the motivation is behind it.  Is she saying things that make me feel bad because she wants me to feel the same pain she does?  If so, then it's not her, it's BPD.  That's when you draw your line.  :)o not accept apologies without first discussing why the apology needed to happen. Forgiveness doesn't mean forgetting, don't go back once you've made progress.

BPD sufferers tend to think that an apology means the scoreboard gets reset, that everything goes back to just the way it was and they shouldn't have to change their behavior because you forgave them.  That's not how life works; you are a person with feelings and needs just like anyone else and you deserve to be treated with respect and in a manner consistent with your own guiding principles.  :)raw your lines, stick to them, keep it factual and about behavior, and above all; never let yourself believe you don't deserve to be loved.