Dealing with suicide attempt

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I divorced by BPD husband almost a year ago but have not been able to cut ties with him completely as we have an 11-year-old daughter together. He's been acting really awful lately attacking me and making up lies about me. At the same time he is hoping that we will end up back together even though I'm not giving him any false hopes. Plus he is living with a girlfriend.

Last night we got into it via text messages and I was trying to defend myself from his false accusations. He basically accused me of sleeping around even though I never dated anyone after our divorce. He finally said that he doesnt have anything else to fight for and he swallowed a lot of pills. He ended up at a hospital and the first thing I got from him when he woke up was accusations. He asked me if i'm happy now, told me that I probably wish he was successful in his attempt so I can go on with my life and ___ myself around. I dont know where his getting all this from. I dont want to be blamed for this, i know deep down he was very troubled all his life and it's not my fault. but I dont know how to deal with it. I think I should completely isolate myself from him. I'm obviously not good for him since I pushed him to take his own life. I don't know what to tell our daughter about it. she doesnt know. I'm afraind he will tell her he tried killing himself because I'm such a b___. He has talked badly about me before and I feel like this just giives him a tool to use against me.

[newlifeBPDfree]

I divorced by BPD husband almost a year ago but have not been able to cut ties with him completely as we have an 11-year-old daughter together. He's been acting really awful lately attacking me and making up lies about me. At the same time he is hoping that we will end up back together even though I'm not giving him any false hopes. Plus he is living with a girlfriend.

Last night we got into it via text messages and I was trying to defend myself from his false accusations. He basically accused me of sleeping around even though I never dated anyone after our divorce. He finally said that he doesnt have anything else to fight for and he swallowed a lot of pills. He ended up at a hospital and the first thing I got from him when he woke up was accusations. He asked me if i'm happy now, told me that I probably wish he was successful in his attempt so I can go on with my life and ___ myself around. I dont know where his getting all this from. I dont want to be blamed for this, i know deep down he was very troubled all his life and it's not my fault. but I dont know how to deal with it. I think I should completely isolate myself from him. I'm obviously not good for him since I pushed him to take his own life. I don't know what to tell our daughter about it. she doesnt know. I'm afraind he will tell her he tried killing himself because I'm such a b___. He has talked badly about me before and I feel like this just giives him a tool to use against me.

[Deeno02]

I divorced by BPD husband almost a year ago but have not been able to cut ties with him completely as we have an 11-year-old daughter together. He's been acting really awful lately attacking me and making up lies about me. At the same time he is hoping that we will end up back together even though I'm not giving him any false hopes. Plus he is living with a girlfriend.

Last night we got into it via text messages and I was trying to defend myself from his false accusations. He basically accused me of sleeping around even though I never dated anyone after our divorce. He finally said that he doesnt have anything else to fight for and he swallowed a lot of pills. He ended up at a hospital and the first thing I got from him when he woke up was accusations. He asked me if i'm happy now, told me that I probably wish he was successful in his attempt so I can go on with my life and ___ myself around. I dont know where his getting all this from. I dont want to be blamed for this, i know deep down he was very troubled all his life and it's not my fault. but I dont know how to deal with it. I think I should completely isolate myself from him. I'm obviously not good for him since I pushed him to take his own life. I don't know what to tell our daughter about it. she doesnt know. I'm afraind he will tell her he tried killing himself because I'm such a b___. He has talked badly about me before and I feel like this just giives him a tool to use against me.

Do you have a Therapist? If so, that would be a good place to start.

[newlifeBPDfree]

I did see one for a while but I have not had time to see her lately because he is so unpredictable and will cancel plans last minute to make my life harder. He used to have my daughter couple times a week and I had time to see a therapist but lately she's been with me every night. I just rush home from work every day and can't take time out to make any appointments for myself.

[Deeno02]

I did see one for a while but I have not had time to see her lately because he is so unpredictable and will cancel plans last minute to make my life harder. He used to have my daughter couple times a week and I had time to see a therapist but lately she's been with me every night. I just rush home from work every day and can't take time out to make any appointments for myself.

Perhaps you could call your T to see how the best way to tell your daughter what happened.

[OutOfEgypt]

My ex has talked badly about me, as well.  Kids are pretty smart, though.  I don't know how old your daughter is, but my eldest daughter has her mom pegged pretty well, even though she loves her.  There's nothing you can do about it.  He is throwing a temper tantrum and trying to get you to react.  See, getting you to even argue with him, for him, is the same thing as getting you back in.  He is lashing out at you because you are breaking away from him, and he is doing whatever he can to manipulate you... .and it sounds like it is working.  Listen to yourself... ."I'm afraid that... ."  "I was just trying to defend myself from... ."  Pointless.  Time to break out of the FOG.

It is literally pointless to try and defend yourself to them, and I"ll give you four big reasons (there are others) as to why:

1) Arguing and trying to defend yourself assumes that if you speak loud enough you will be heard (one of the 10 false beliefs that "keep us stuck" in the article on breaking up with a BPD person, found here:  https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality).  But you won't be heard, not really.  They aren't capable of putting themselves in your shoes and seeing how you feel.  They are only capable of being consumed with their own agitated, miserable, needy feelings and demanding that you revolve completely around them.

2) It gives them more ammunition to use against you.  My ex claimed to never have a good memory, but it was amazing the things she would pull out to use against me... .and her memory seemed to exaggerate and even invent things that I never said.  He loves that you argue with him.  He loves it.  He loves that you defend yourself to him, too.  It gives him more materials.

3) It is playing into his game.  His game is to keep you close and involve you in his temper tantrum and emotional storm.  His goal is to make sure he gets to hang onto you and prevent anyone else from ever remaining connected with you.  And the more you emotionally engage in his drama, the more you play into his game.  He loves it.  He gets to keep you around to blame, and he gets to keep you around to argue with him.  It's like you are his sick playmate.  And if you are looking for an emotionally healthy man to start dating, you aren't going to attract one (or keep one) who sees how emotionally invested you still are in your ex husband.  Sad but true.  Your future is literally on the line.

4) The more you engage in the drama, the more you look like you belong in it.  If one were to compare my Facebook to my ex wife's Facebook, one would see something very different.  I never talk about personal issues.  I never talk about my ex wife.  I never go on verbal rants with explicit cuss words, tearing someone up and down, for all of my FB friends to see.  But she does.  And she does it often.  Who looks like the fool?  She does.  I look like the adult, and she looks like the lunatic.  Sure, there are people who will believe her and get on her side, like we've all regressed back into middle-school, but who cares?  The people who are stable and mature can point out the kind of person she is, and the kind of person I am, a mile away.  Take the high road.  There is nothing to defend, so it isn't worth a syllable from your mouth.  The people of quality and character probably already know more than you think.  I was surprised to see how many people already had my ex pegged, and I hadn't told them anything about her.


How long ago was he hospitalized for attempting to commit suicide?  I'm pretty sure you could get a protective order from a judge, granting you emergency custody of your daughter.  Ask your attorney about that.

The bottom line is this... .you aren't going to keep him from blaming you or talking badly about you.  So, you are on a fools errand if you think any amount of explaining or worrying or walking on eggshells is going to get him to release you.  You need to release yourself and walk away.  That is something only YOU can do.  Stop playing into his game.  No more responding to texts unless it is about the kids.  :)ocument everything.  Get a restraining order if you need to.

[maxen]

hi newlife  

i'm so sorry to read about this, and i hope you're dealing with it as best you can. it certainly sounds as if your ex-h is having a florid episode. do you have friends or, as Deeno mentioned, a therapist for yourself, to talk this out with?

Last night we got into it via text messages and I was trying to defend myself from his false accusations.

there's a method that applies very well, don't JADE: don't Justify, Argue, Defend, or Explain. (there is a thread about it here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=205038.0;all.) when accusations are made, they're made out of a BPD's emotional imperatives, and do not always (or often) conform to the facts. there are communication skills that you can try to apply, about which we have a very useful workshop here: Communication tools (SET, PUVAS, DEARMAN). somewhat longer is this pdf, Validation and BPD.

I dont want to be blamed for this

by whom would you be blamed?

[newlifeBPDfree]

Thank you OutOfEgypt for such an extensive reply. I agree so much with all of your points. Especially point 3 strikes a cord with me. I have not been able to move on or even started thinking about dating yet because I'm so emotionally drained truing to deal with my ex on everyday basis.

My daughter is 11 and I'm pretty sure she has a general idea about his dad. Especially after he stormed into my apartment last wednesday and demanded some answers from me to his delusional accusations. I would not talk to him but my daughter got put in the middle and suffered a great deal of emotional pain. At one point my ex told her he hated her and that his dad sexually molested his sisters. I so wanted to call the police but she begged me not to. After that I really was considering getting an order of protection. I have sole custody over my daughter but he does not know that yet. He never showed up at court so he doesnt know what the final settlement was. I'm afraid for him to find out... .

He is in the hospital right now. It all happened last night. He just sent me a selfie from hospital bed asking me to swear on our daughter that I have not slep with anyone after our divorce. He said his life dependent on my answer. After that he started lashing out on me and told me I caused all of this and told me next time he will do it better so I can be rid of him so I can ___ myself around.

[OutOfEgypt]

When my ex attempted to commit suicide (with pills, also), someone from mental health department came in and told me they either needed to release her to a family member (me) or have her committed for a short amount of time.  I took her back in.  I should have let them take her. 

Is there a doctor or someone you can show the text messages to?  Can you report it to the police?  That is an awful thing to do to you.

Whatever happens... .I hope you know in the deepest part of you that it is not your fault.  He is desperate to blame you and hook you with guilt -manipulation.  It is unfair what he is doing to you and totally selfish.  Is there a caseworker or someone you can talk to to make sure his behavior is documented?  Does he have any family that can have him involuntarily admitted to a hospital for psychiatric help?

[OutOfEgypt]

I know doing such things (reporting to his doctor, to the police, etc.) seems unthinkable, and you likely are terrified of the repercussions.  I know and remember that feeling well.  But the choice is really a matter of your own freedom -for your sake and your daughter's.  Your daughter needs at least one stable parent, so the quicker you break away and do what you can to separate yourself from all of this the better off you and your daughter will be.

[newlifeBPDfree]

I know doing such things (reporting to his doctor, to the police, etc.) seems unthinkable, and you likely are terrified of the repercussions.  I know and remember that feeling well.  But the choice is really a matter of your own freedom -for your sake and your daughter's.  Your daughter needs at least one stable parent, so the quicker you break away and do what you can to separate yourself from all of this the better off you and your daughter will be.

i know that i need to take some drastic steps but i'm scared. I'm scared because I know he will use it against me and put poison in my daughters head. He just threatened that he was going to send my daughter selfies from his hospital bed and tell her what her mother did. I keep texting his girfriend who is supposed to be with him. I talk to his family too. They are in another state though.

[pallavirajsinghani]

It's ok to be afraid--because fear also leads to caution.  In your case, it is more than fear, it is terror and terror results in inaction--and inaction becomes a tacit permission for the behavior to continue.

Based on the above premise, my recommendations are as follows.  These are broad outlines.  Implementation of each specific recommendation should be done after you seek advice from the other members of the board here, from your friends, well-wishers and any other professional or quasi professional sources you can think of (including DV hotlines/Suicide prevention hotlines).

1)  Document everything.  Get a computer program that downloads all texts.  Do not address the emotional content of the texts.  Only address the factual content.  For example, if he blames you for his turmoil, do not reply.  However, if he asks whether he can have his jacket back, ask him, how would you like me to send it?  Address issues only once.

2) Regarding suicide: call 911 on him.  Remember that you have documentation that you are not making a base less call.  You actually have the recorded text to prove it.  You can call his family.  Record yourself making the call.  Note down the time, date etc.  Your call should be brief and factual:  "I am calling you as a courtesy.  Your son/brother just texted me that he is suicidal.  In order to save his life, I have called 911 to check on him".  That is all.  Keep your tone polite and courteous and to the point.  No discussion, no comments, no criticisms.  After you have said your piece, if they insist on getting details, give them his phone number and ask them to call him directly.  They will still insist on you staying on the phone.

Remember that by this time, all they want from you is to alleviate their anxiety.  When people make others as their anxiety alleviaters, their emotional soothers, their caretakers... .it is a terrible and difficult role... .unless one is a trained clinician, one cannot fulfill that role.  You are now being set up for failure because you have given them all the facts... .it is up to them to decide what to do with the facts.  Your duty, your obligation ends here.  Feel free to add genuine emotion,  "I am so sorry that he feels this way.  I hope that proper intervention will help." 

You will have to practice NOT accepting any responsibility either for his dysregulation or for his recovery.  For this is the harsh truth... .you are not God... .nor are you his mother.  Self-Sactrifice, laying your life down... .nothing is a cure.  The recovery and cure is within him and within him only... .with stringent long term and obstinate assistance from trained clinicians.

3)  You, like most others believe that involving the professionals is some how wrong.  Well, after losing one family member to suicide and first hand witnessing another one going through extremely psychotic, near suicide episode, I have become a 100% believer in involving the professional at each and every step of the way. 

It is now my belief that we are doing the mentally ill individuals extreme disservice by a) leading them on to thinking that we can help them  and b) by keeping the professional intervention away by covert or overt means.

4)  Professional intervention is not a stigma.  It is a relief... .perhaps to both the sufferer and those who love them.

5)  I used to believe that calling a person BPD sufferer is a stigma... that it labels them.  Until a very wise doctor commenting on this site changed my entire perspective.  He said that naming a condition is neither a stigma nor a label... .it is a DIAGNOSIS.  And when a diagnosis is made, recovery plan can follow.  He said that giving a condition a name also shows the path that needs to be travelled both by the sufferer and by the people who love them or need to be in constant contact with them.

6)  Your fear about him using this incident to bad mouth you, to spread lies... .again:  document, document, document.  Save all the selfies to your daughters, save all the texts to your daughters... .and start recording via a journal the negative effects on your children.  When the documentation become quite substantial and your journal quite extensive... .get a protective order against him for your children... .and yourself if needed.

The type of journaling helpful is not an emotional one:  It should be factual:  "8:32 AM... .my daughter came to me, showed me the selfie... .and cried and expressed her helpless ness and guilt in her inability to help her father.  She is distraught, is crying uncontrollably and is unable to concentrate on her homework."... .of course the selfie that he sent along with the guilt inducing and badmouthing of you is also saved in the computer folder for reference and as evidence.

I have a lot more... .yet, I think that I have given you enough to rethink your position regarding professional intervention.

God Bless... .for you alone may be weak... .you, as part of this entire board... .is quite a formidable entity... .you are stronger and bigger than you are... .for now you are withing the very loving and strong embrace of all who post here.

Pallavi

[pallavirajsinghani]

... .Oh and I neglected to mention the most important thing:

Whenever you doubt your ethics, your decency, your integrity, your ability to love and nurture, your empathy for a suffering human being... .just come here to get a reality check.

:-)

[Pingo]

1)  Document everything.  Get a computer program that downloads all texts.  Do not address the emotional content of the texts.  Only address the factual content.  For example, if he blames you for his turmoil, do not reply.  However, if he asks whether he can have his jacket back, ask him, how would you like me to send it?  Address issues only once.

I just wanted to say that if you have an android you can download free apps that backs up texts, phone logs, etc to your gmail account.  I use mine all the time, drop me a PM if you want to know which one I use.  It's very simple.

[SlyQQ]

sought of same posistion there is a case for telling your daughter if you think he will if you and it makes things very difficult for you depending on your daughters maturity you might be able to explain this is the very you cant be with her farther becauseit there was a very unhealthy dynamic happening all depends very much on actual situation on how to handle it p.s. my eight year old walked in on me discussing my xs latest suicide attempt with someone so be carefull

[OutOfEgypt]

I'm scared because I know he will use it against me and put poison in my daughters head. He just threatened that he was going to send my daughter selfies from his hospital bed and tell her what her mother did.

I understand.  I understand what that fear feels like, especially when you've lived under it for years.  We know they are capable of awful things.  But in reality, your ex husband is a grown child and he is throwing a temper tantrum.  And in the case of your daughter, she is not going to fall for it.  He's going to hurt your daughter by sending her selfies telling her what *you* did?  And what exactly might that be?  Your daughter is old enough to recognize irrationality and manipulation.  She is also old enough to recognize who is the stable, sane parent, and who is not.  She is not going to fall for it.  Besides, he is likely bluffing.  He's just trying to continue to control you.  These sound like what are known as "extinction bursts" -basically temper tantrums that arise when they realize they are losing their control over you.  Time to face these fears... .its a bunch of horse-crap.  I know it's hard, but you've gotta face them so that you can get your life back.  Unfortunately, he is not giving you much room to do this slowly.  He is right in your face, putting you on the chopping block to make these kinds of decisions.  He is used to paralyzing you with fear, paralyzing you into inaction.  Time to make a change.

If he follows through, that could be considered child abuse.  I know that you said you already have custody, but as others have commented, this kind of thing could be used for a protective order of some kind, keeping him away from you and your daughter.  

Think of the ways you probably fought back in the past... .arguing, defending, reasoning, warning, and worrying.  But now you will learn to fight by a) not playing his game anymore, and b) using adult tools and resources to handle and address their extremely childish and destructive behavior.  Your goals will become different.  Your goal will no longer be walking on eggshells to try and get him to let up.  Your goal will be you and your daughter's health, freedom, and safety.  

In my opinion, there are two approaches.  There is the detached, distanced professional approach.  You are detached, pleasant, but business-like in your dealings with your ex regarding your child.  Everything that doesn't have to do with the kids is ignored.  This is where I am right now with my ex.  But then there is the second approach, which is to pursue things to their extent.  If my ex ever goes off the deep end or does crazy things to hurt my kids, then the gloves come off, and everything I have been documenting and saving for years will be used to protect them.  No warnings.  No reasoning with her.  No arguing.  Just GAME OVER.

There has to be something you can do.  On the simpler scale, you are you daughter's mother, after all, so can't you monitor her cell phone?  Couldn't you block text messages from her father or do other things in order to protect her?  But I would seriously consider doing something with all of these threats.  Ask your lawyer.  Talk to the police.

[newlifeBPDfree]

sought of same posistion there is a case for telling your daughter

if you think he will if you and it makes things very difficult for you

depending on your daughters maturity you might be able to explain

this is the very you cant be with her farther becauseit there was a very unhealthy

dynamic happening all depends very much on actual situation on how to

handle it p.s. my eight year old walked in on me discussing my xs latest suicide attempt with someone so be carefull

He was actually very verbal about telling her what he did and why (your mom did that). But I think that she is old enough to understand there is more to the story than he is saying.

[newlifeBPDfree]

Thank you all for your responses and a wealth of knowledge and support. I took my daughter to the hospital to see him. I wasn't originally intending on seeing him, I just wanted my daughter to visit. But he wanted me there and asked my daughter to bring me from the waiting room. I assume he wanted me to see him all hooked up to the machines so he can deepen my guilt. Then he proceeded on telling me in front of my daughter and the nurse (because he is on 24 hour watch) that he did that because of me and how does that make me feel annd so on. I told him I was going to leaqve the room and to call me when my daughter was ready to leave. I did that and he sent her to get me again. Then he did a complete 180 turnaround and was crying telling me he wants me back and he wants to be family. I really feel lost because with him I either get heaven or hell. But theres too much hell for the heaven to count.

He also upset me because he scared my daughter telling her details about how his heart stopped several times. This morning she was crying before school worried that her dad might die because his heart might stop. I just asked him to spare her the deatils but i'm worried that his need for attention takes over and is stronger than the need to protect his daughter.

[OutOfEgypt]

I'm sorry you are going through this.

You may already be doing this, but these moments, as awful as they are, really do provide opportunities to teach your daughter.  I've had many teachable moments with my girls out of their mother's acting out.  These are opportunities to teach your daughter about what is appropriate and what is not, what is true and what is false.

Daughter:  Mommy, daddy wants you to come in there to see him, again.

You:  I know he does, honey, but whenever I go in there daddy does things to hurt the both of us by blaming me for what he is doing.  I'm really sorry.  In fact, he shouldn't be putting you in the middle of things that have to do with mommy and daddy at all.  I'm sorry he is doing that to you.

Daughter:  :)addy says you don't even care about him and that he did this because of you.

You:  Honey, you know that isn't true.  :)addy is just having a hard time right now, and that's something he'll have to find a way to handle just like any of us.  I do care about daddy, but that doesn't mean I can have a relationship with him.  In time, he will learn to accept that and things will get better.  How does it make you feel when he is telling you these things?

Daughter:  Bad.  It makes me sad.

You:  Me, too.  I don't like when he does things like this.  I don't like when he puts these things on us to make us feel bad for him.  It isn't right.

When my kids are pulled into garbage with their mom, I ask them how they feel about it.  I listen to them first.  I validate their feelings (and they are usually very astute at recognizing what is going on and recognizing the conflicting feelings they have), and then at the end I deliver some truth.  I don't bash their mom, but I tell the truth.  Maybe something like, "I know.  I'm sorry, honey.  That's how mommy is.  She was like that with me, too.  It doesn't feel very good, does it?"

These are also learning opportunities for you.  Look what happens every time you let him convince you to get close to him.  He destroys.  It is the same with my ex.  Whenever you get close, or allow them close, they hurt you and usually the kids, too.  He's intentionally scaring your daughter into feeling pity on him.  That is terrible.  

i'm worried that his need for attention takes over and is stronger than the need to protect his daughter.

Ya think?  Sounds like that ship sailed a while ago.  Sorry .  This is where love is hard... .to make hard decisions that will provoke his guilt-ploys and victim-playing all the more but will protect you and your daughter.  

I'm hoping to encourage you to take a big deep breath, step back, and look at what he's doing and how you play into it.  The insanity has to stop, and only you can stop it for the family, right?  Yet at the same time, I know how this feels, so don't beat yourself up about it.  You don't need that.  This is VERY HARD to get your head out of.

[SlyQQ]

Sorry to hear that my ex ended up texting my 12 yo step daughter with gruesome ways she would kill herself ( she would text me then her ) to make sure i was reading the texts it does a whole lot of damage ( she ended up with depression issues school refusal etc) an even though they can process it they cant it is hard enough as an adult. ( She left me by the by an the kids did not want to go she hit me with a violence order to try an get back door custody but was quashed ) It was very ugly they however will always love there farther/mother so the more forgiveness you can find the better it will be for them. good luck