What do I do here

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi, HH.  So good to hear you opened up about your own feelings.   

It is totally your right to do so!

You likely already know this, but her tools are your tools too.  You can use the same techniques to express yourself, and there are lots of other tips in the Lessons at the right of this page. 

Blessing to you for 2015!

c.

[Crumbling]

Hi, HH.  So good to hear you opened up about your own feelings.   

It is totally your right to do so!

You likely already know this, but her tools are your tools too.  You can use the same techniques to express yourself, and there are lots of other tips in the Lessons at the right of this page. 

Blessing to you for 2015!

c.

[hurthusband]

The tools on my wife rarely work.  She is so angry and sees through alot of it.

Last night she was angry I was not home earlier (i came home an hour early from work) and felt alone.  She wanted to take our son to the movies so I had gotten tickets and everything during the day.  The whole thing was a nightmare at theater.  It was one where they serve dinner and they kept messing things up.  She of course said I did not care about them or I would have asked how dinner was instead of just eating mine.  I mean she had already talked to the manager twice and i had talked with the waiter 3 times.  I just was terrified during whole movie.  At 9 pm she is demanding I take off work today... I took off work Wednesday.  Then she changes her mind cause last minute.  She has already called me asking if my mother is at work who happens to own this business.  Angry that she is not hear yet, but she has some stuff she is dealing with right now and I have already been on phone with her 30 minutes. 

Wife is pissed i worked 10 days after her parents died.  I have taken off many times in past 6 weeks to go to help her with parents in hospital and I have not worked a full regular week in 6 weeks.  I had already cut back by weeks 15% from a year ago going into this current period.  Meanwhile, she is upset if my mother does not contact her every day.  My mother is nervous about her too.  She keeps asking ALOT of my parents right now.  I am talking some serious things.  My mother spent the whole night with her the night before her mom died at hospice.  My mother is not mentally ideal health neither so my wife is upset when my mother messes up.  My mother is very nervous about my wife switching on her again.

Everyone sees my wife just drinking and taken pills while not really eating.  Everyone says stuff to me.  I have not accussed her of anything or said others see it, but I have let her know that her throat is probably sore from her throwing up and her stomach and mind have to feel bad from no nutrition and asked what I can do to help.

I am just so tired of it all.  I think part of reasons her friends abandoned her is she is soo needy.  I am exhausted.  I am terrified.  Its same pattern over and over and over.  I know it will keep happening over and over and over.  I am ready to say I am gone and its same reason everyone else left you.  You are too demanding and mean.  At same time, both parents died... .Honestly, if it wasnt for that fact I might.

I just am tired of fighting all her battles, fighting her, trying to do what I think is right which is apparantly never right.

I cannot really think things through now.  Nobody can feel bad anymore without her using the crutch her parents are both dead so its waaaay worse for her.  Honestly, I think the death of my parents and pain that would cause would be easier than the fear of living this life.  I would never want it to happen and I would face this fear and suffer than have that.  I really do want to just go to sleep and not wake up.  It is frustrating to hear my mother also complain about her life.  I do not say anything, but she will compare it to mine which is frustrating because I have dead in laws, crazy wife, and am broke.  She has siblings fighting over money and a daughter that fights her alot over grandchild, but my mom is trying to control her at same time.

To me her stresses over how much money she will have with is still enormous is not the same as mine which are trying to figure how to put food on the table tonight and not get pistol whipped by my wife.

We each have our problems though.  I cannot say that I feel worse than her.  There are people in the world who have it worse off than me too. 

I honestly would like to be in a mental hospital at this point for a bit, for the rest and peace, but it doesnt change leaving and finding things worse than when i left.

That is the hard part.  There is no way to get a break from this all.  I feel like im eating my own flesh to fuel my body to keep going.  Just a blackhole imploding, but not soon enough.  I want an end.  I do not have control over alot of this and I am getting blamed for it or looked to to solve it

[sweetheart]

hurthusband when I read your posts I feel concerned about the way you are feeling. Your situation sounds really awful and I can hear how much it is hurting you emotionally.

The only thing you really have any control over is you, you cannot control anything else going on around you unless it is coming directly from you.

You are seriously enmeshed in your wife's disorder in a way that is blinding you, overwhelming you, disabling you to the point of exhaustion and desperation. I am not telling you something you don't already know.

What can you do now, today that will help reduce the stress you are under? How can you start to disentangle yourself from your wife's chaos and begin meeting your own needs?

Taking care of you first is the only way that you will be able to start to alleviate some of the pressure you are under. 

[formflier]

I just am tired of fighting all her battles, fighting her, trying to do what I think is right which is apparantly never right.

Is there a requirement that you fight her battles?  What happens if you don't? 

You seem to have figured out that there is a finite about of energy that you can apply to this situation... .and you've used it up... .and you are tired.  Rightly so.

So... .you either need to get more energy... .or expend less energy.  Are there other choices?  I can't think of any.

Continuing to  expend more energy that you have... .or "maxing it out"... .will continue to leave you tired... .and in the situation you are in now.

So... .do you think you can get more energy?

Do you think you can reduce the amount of energy you choose to put into "her battles".

[hurthusband]

The problem is at this point is that I do not have the energy to even fight my own battles.  I am basically burned out.  She cannot fix some of the problems I have allowed her to get us into too.  So I have to fix them because they affect us both.

I let things get too deep

[formflier]

  So I have to fix them because they affect us both.

What happens if they don't get fixed?

[Crumbling]

   thanks for checking in... .sorry to hear nothing has gotten better.

"I let things get too deep."  This worries me, HH.  Is everyone safe?  Are you?

There is no one here on this site to fight with.  Just vent.  Share the crap being thrown at you, and get it off your back.  We just want to help, and if all you can do right now is grope around in the dark, then do that.  It's okay.  You know what is best for you, and we just want to help you find it.

Remember you are not alone, and you are strong.  And time can mend a lot, it just takes time to get there.

 , c.

[hurthusband]

  So I have to fix them because they affect us both.

What happens if they don't get fixed?

Bankruptcy, kids dont get help they need, no clothing, food, arguments between everyone else instead of just me and her

[formflier]

Bankruptcy, kids dont get help they need, no clothing, food, arguments between everyone else instead of just me and her

Ok... .there is some bad stuff on this list... .but it is all survivable. 

I'm not saying don't attempt to fix it... .or not worry about it... .but I hope you can see your way clear to understand that all of this is survivable... .and to understand that when you are setting priorities about where you "spend" your energy.

You only have so much energy... time... .etc etc to "spend"... .you need to do that wisely.

We can help you sort through your priorities... .

We won't set them for you... .but we will help you sort through them.

[Crumbling]

Do you have a 'time out' strategy?  Do you have a place where you can go to that is quiet and away from everything?  A man cave of some sort?  A buddy's place?  Do you get any reprieve from her presence and the pressure?  You need this for you.  Don't neglect it.  You said so yourself, the pressure is too much.  Keep your own air mask on, HH.  It's the only way to help her get hers on, or anyone else's.  Find that spot for you where you can breath.

Everyone sees my wife just drinking and taken pills while not really eating.  Everyone says stuff to me.  I have not accussed her of anything or said others see it, but I have let her know that her throat is probably sore from her throwing up and her stomach and mind have to feel bad from no nutrition and asked what I can do to help.

You have the right to inform everyone that you are not her keeper and you cannot change her behaviour, you know this, right?  Don't let them blame you for her behaviour.  These are choices she is making, not you. 

And second, what is so wrong with letting her know that other people are aware of her actions.  It may help her come to accept that she isn't doing all this just to herself, but to everyone around her as well.  HH, I know you fear devastating her, but I really think she feels like she's already at the bottom of the barrel, so showing her the truth would be one of the best tools you have for helping her climb back out.  Don't accuse her of anything, that's right.  She has no concept that she is hurting other people right now.  She is only thinking of her own pain.  But letting her know that 'sister saw what she did in the bathroom after supper" isn't an accusation, it's a fact.  One that may snap her into realizing she isn't alone.  But you know her better than me.

I am just so tired of it all.  I think part of reasons her friends abandoned her is she is soo needy.  I am exhausted.  I am terrified.  Its same pattern over and over and over.  I know it will keep happening over and over and over.  I am ready to say I am gone and its same reason everyone else left you.  You are too demanding and mean. 

I think more than fixing any of those things you listed in the earlier post, you're focus may be best spent on stopping the underlying cause of it all, her dysregulated behaviour.  You can't fix her behaviour, but you can get distance from the behaviour... .this is where the priority making FF suggested come into play... .what is your next step? 

At same time, both parents died... .Honestly, if it wasnt for that fact I might.

This may be the very 'straw that breaks her back' into getting help, or at least seeing she needs help.  It's normal behaviour to go a little emotionally unstable when tragic things happen to any person.  Rather than making her out to be a 'bad person' for needing therapy, you could present it to her like it's a common, acceptable practice to get help in tragic situations like hers.  Anything to get her the help she needs, because you cannot fix her.  You are not responsible for her actions.  We can help walk you through ' ractice conversations' if you want.

I just am tired of fighting all her battles, fighting her, trying to do what I think is right which is apparantly never right.

You must be doing something right, HH, you are still here.  You are still breathing and facing each day, and loving your kids.  And you do not have to do what is right for everyone else, just what is right for you.  You want to fix everyone and everything,and that's good, but that's because you are a man, and that's what men do when they care.  But you don't have to fix everything.  You just have to fix you, and everything else will follow.  Ask anyone here.  It's true.

I honestly would like to be in a mental hospital at this point for a bit, for the rest and peace, but it doesnt change leaving and finding things worse than when i left.

Sorry, love, but to me, it sound's like she should be in there, not you!  You are the stronger one, who can make things better while/if she is away.  You can get space from her criticizing you and focus on building yourself back up to loving you.  If your kids are ever put in physical danger, you can intervene... .it's your duty as a parent in fact to do so.  Don't forget that!

That is the hard part.  There is no way to get a break from this all.  I feel like im eating my own flesh to fuel my body to keep going.  Just a blackhole imploding, but not soon enough.  I want an end.  I do not have control over alot of this and I am getting blamed for it or looked to to solve it

... .Go to top and reread from first paragraph

 , my prayers are with you.  I hope something here helps you,

c.

[hurthusband]

another hard part with problems and a time out is I am self employed.  I do not work, we have NO money.  No unemployment, no nothing.  If i lose my business or go bankrupt, I lose everything... career and all then have nothing to support myself

The other part is how much slack to cut my wife in this situation. If it was anyone else, I would cut them some slack in a situation like this.  The hard part with a BPD is how much is too much

So bit of trying to figure what is realistic, what is not, and I am just so worn down that I cannot make the right decisions neither

[Crumbling]

Do I remember right that you work from home?  That's probably a tough set up for you to be productive in.  What about re-evaluating this set up?

Frankly, pouring yourself into your work is a good thing for you to do.  It gives you space for you, if your not doing it with her at your back, and it gives you something else to think about, which may give you a bit of space too.

Are you having a hard time working?  I know she keeps trying to talk you into not working, but she doesn't know what is best for her right now.  But you know what is best for you and your family.

It sounds like your wife is really hurting herself with her own destructive behaviours... .compassion is needed, yes, but if she is lashing out at you, then she isn't getting the compassion you set out to show anyway, so it's best not for you to try to give her that.  She does need to be watched, and kept as safe as possible, as do you and the kids.

So, what is realistic?  :)o you know what the right decision is?  For you, the kids?

[sweetheart]

Hello hurthusband,

Are the children of an age that they don't need full time supervision, teenagers or toddlers?

I can hear keeping yourself afloat financially is important to you and this is something you obviously don't want to let go. It sounds like the current work situation isn't ideal, like crumbling said is there a way this could be changed to your advantage, a way that helps you more?

What do you mean by 'cutting your wife slack in this situation' can you expand on this more?

Hurthusband you say you do not work that you are self-employed, do you mean that your business isn't up and running at the moment, how do you manage financially?

Sorry if it seems like I'm grilling you I'm just trying to get a more accurate overview so as to help you start to refocus your energy so that you are able to start cutting yourself some slack 

[sweetheart]

hurthusband just to say please don't put yourself under any pressure to answer my questions I dont want you to feel like you are undertaking a 'sweetheart special lifestyle test!' 

[hurthusband]

ah yes...

I am a self employed consultant.  I do work at a couple of locations most of the time, but I do work at home also

I am only going to make money when I am working.  Being self employed there is extra taxes, no guaranteed pay, and certainly no unemployment or medical benefits

It basically means taking off means no money at all.  It can only be done sparingly. 

As far as cutting her some slack.  If anyone lost two parents i would obviously be more understanding of them raging and not be hurt as much and tolerate it more because i know its not them

the problem here is that its hard to separate how much to allow

[formflier]

the problem here is that its hard to separate how much to allow

Who decides how much to allow? 

Can you give me an example of how "it" plays out when something is "allowed".

Can you give me an example of how "it" plays out when something is "not allowed"

[sweetheart]

Hello hurthusband,

It is very sad that your wife has lost two parents anyone would be floored by this. You can absolutely validate the underlying emotion and her grief but you do not have to put yourself in the way of any more than this. Grief does not mean allowing yourself to be emotionally used and abused.

Do you have a daily schedule/timetable for work that you set yourself. So say like between 10am and 4pm Mon - Fri you are 'at work' and cannot be disturbed. It sounds like setting some boundaries for yourself about work might be an important place for you to start prioritising things from. Just a thought. If the house is too difficult, could your car become your office ?

What do you need to start putting in place for yourself so that you are protected from your wife's dysregulations?

[Crumbling]

 

Okay, so you have an alternative work place to go, that's good.     I guess you need to be able to get into the right 'head space' to work as well, so I'm hoping that is something you are also able to do.  If you've got those things, then working steady, like Sweetheart says, sounds like a really healthy option.   

I don't know how to determine how much empathy is needed when a person has loss like hers, but I do know this,

if... .she is telling you that you need to be with her, to look after her, and not go to work... .

if... .her emotions and out bursts are attacking you, your life, your decisions... .

if... .she cannot see past what she is feeling right now, and is only drowning herself in 'woe-is-me parties' and can't pull herself out of them alone... .

if... .she is putting herself and/or your family at risk because of her need to numb... .

then, well, in my opinion, your cutting her way too much slack.   

I'm not saying tell her to get over it, or make life nasty, or anything heartless like that.  I just mean that there are acceptable forms of grieving and there are self destructive behaviours, and now's probably a good time for you to learn the difference.

Do you know if there is a grief support group in your area?  May be worth finding out, and talking to someone who has experience in the field.    Maybe now isn't the time to try to fix anything.  Maybe it's enough to just get to a place where things aren't getting worse.   Therapy, of any kind, for either, of you may be really helpful too.  If it's an option and she won't go, go yourself.  Take the kids, whatever.  I'm sure just finding someone to talk to, who can help you sort it all out, would help a lot.

good intentions still comin your way,

c.

[Grey Kitty]

The tools on my wife rarely work.  She is so angry and sees through alot of it.

The tools aren't there to help your wife or make her happy, and quite likely they won't. Especially at first. They are for YOU. Start with the basics.

Basic tool #1: Don't invalidate her (when you can avoid it). Don't JADE.

Basic tool #2: Enforce boundaries to protect yourself, your sanity, and your finances.

Don't let her drag you into circular arguments. Don't let her abuse you. Don't let her keep you from working (so you bring in needed money). Don't let her interfere with your sleep. Don't let her isolate you from all other people outside your family.

More advanced tools like S.E.T. and Validation won't work very well until you cover those.

[formflier]

 

Two extra points... .or nuances... .to through in here.

Hurt husband... .

Who decides whether or not you listen to "angry talk" from your wife?


For all... .

I have heard people use the phrase... .one invalidation is for several "validations".

In other words... .if you perfectly validate three or four "points" or issues... .and let one invalidation slip in.  It will most likely destroy the work that you have done... .might even create a negative.

Which is why you will see us focusing on not invalidating first... .then teach to validate.

In other words... ."stop the bleeding... " Then start repairing... .

[hurthusband]

The tools on my wife rarely work.  She is so angry and sees through alot of it.

The tools aren't there to help your wife or make her happy, and quite likely they won't. Especially at first. They are for YOU. Start with the basics.



More advanced tools like S.E.T. and Validation won't work very well until you cover those.

Great point.  I suppose I sort of expect her to react a certain way when those are applied, but I cannot expect that.  I REALLY work hard and careful craft everything I say in life to avoid invalidating her.  It is certainly an "eggshell" proposition and honestly impossible to avoid at all times because the chain of reasoning sometimes used to come to an invalidation by her is so obscenely out there that it would be a full time 3 person job to analyze everything before speaking.

I had been starting to set more boundaries (it is possibly a bit late to stave off the problems for not doing it earlier) but something like double parent death is a bit of a set back.

Usually i try and be at my other work space 8-3 at least.  I am basically working two jobs now because she does not work and the medical bills even with the top tier health insurance I can get is in excess of $25k a year.  That coupled with taxes is about half my income pre-expenses.

I do see change.  The episodes are growing increasingly less frequent and she is being kind more.  I believe a major problem though is me.  I have been conditioned to feel a certain fear/flight or fight response from the previous trauma of living with her.  Incidences that she might now handle in an acceptable manner have me terrified expecting the worst.  At same time, who knows what might happen.  The other problem is I am just fatigued from it all.  I hate the feelings of it all.  The panic from anticipating the blow up that may never happen or the slight sense she is blowing up.  It is like an exposed nerve at this point

So I have to give her credit and I think I need to validate the improvement and encourage it at same time, but I am worn out from it all.

Problems such as her running a red light and not paying the bill puts a warrant in my name because I am shown as owner of vehicle.  Credit Cards not being paid are on me cause its all in my name and none in her name.  Car on side of road from a DWI means my loss.  Leaving her to rot in jail over a DWI means kids are hurt by no mom.  She is still going to accumulate bills that will fall to me as husband... while the direct affects are not on me, there are plenty of peripheral damage and certainly damage between us.  No doubt we are were we are now because of her issues and my issues of allowing it but at this point, I cannot bail her out anymore and any damage is too much for me to handle even for myself.  I have allowed her to sink me too.  The only way out at this point is abandoning her and trying to salvage myself or both of us at same time pulling weight.  Abandoning her also means abandoning kids as not biological and its pretty heartless at this point in time.  I mean I still love her

[Grey Kitty]

I REALLY work hard and careful craft everything I say in life to avoid invalidating her.  It is certainly an "eggshell" proposition and honestly impossible to avoid at all times because the chain of reasoning sometimes used to come to an invalidation by her is so obscenely out there that it would be a full time 3 person job to analyze everything before speaking.

I had been starting to set more boundaries (it is possibly a bit late to stave off the problems for not doing it earlier) but something like double parent death is a bit of a set back.

That is a real problem. You can't solve it by not invalidating her.

As you said, you already try very hard to avoid invalidation. Sometimes you cannot. (Life's real consequences like running a red light are invalidating as one example.) You can avoid JADEing, and I bet you are good at that.

She can pull up her own hurt, anger, and dark feelings... .and write a story in her head where it is all your fault. She has the imagination and practice to do this any time she wants to, no matter what you did, said, didn't do, or didn't say.

In other words, she can pick a fight with you and/or start verbally abusing you any time she wants to.

Boundary enforcement is the tool that will save you. Enforce your boundary and disengage from the verbal/emotional abuse. Say goodbye and hang up. Change the subject. Leave the room if changing the subject doesn't work. Leave the house if that doesn't work.

[formflier]

The only way out at this point is abandoning her 

I don't believe this for a second... .

I can think of many alternatives...

What is an alternative for the financial issues of her accumulating debt in your name?  Once we solve that... .we'll come back and knock some others off the list... .

[Crumbling]

I'm so glad to hear you are seeing more acceptable behaviours in her, HH.  As those continue, your 'exposed nerve' will soon learn to relax, but in the meantime, the only tidbit of advice I have, is to perhaps find yourself a self-soothing mantra, or something. 

Some short phrase that you can repeat in your head over and over, when situations come up that make you feel exposed.  Something that helps you remember to stay focused.  For me, it has changed over the years.  I started with merely paying attention to my breathing, tho.  Just focusing on the in and out as I listened to my BPDh rage.  Now, I repeat, "that is him, but what about me". I repeat it until how I feel surfaces.

Just a self healing tool I use that may help you.

[hurthusband]

I actually fail at the JADE on occasion.  It is somewhat my fault because I should walk out sooner than I do.  I do not want to make her feel invalidated that I am not listening to her concerns but there is a point when she keeps recycling the same thing over and over and over and gets more and more and more upset so the boundary gets crossed slowly

The financial is a hard one.  The main thing that is sinking us right now is simply the medical.  All the therapy and meds for her BPD is coming in at about $2k a month.  Other than that is the credit card debt which is at minimum payments of about $1k a month.  Taxes is another big one being self employed.  mortgage/property tax etc is fine and food etc.  I have trimmed everything else pretty far down.  I figure I spend approximately $150 a month on myself on such things as gym membership, my meds, a subscription, clothing, etc. 

It is hard to calculate right now what she is spending because alot was paying for 2 funerals.  iTunes is a problem though.  She loves iTunes and it adds up.  Still $100 a month is not much in the grand scheme compared to other things. 

I will say one thing that GREATLY irked me and my wife yesterday.  My wife's BPD psychologist (not her psychatrist) which she sees 2 times a week for DBT said she would be at the funeral and wake because she cared so much.  Neither my wife nor myself would expect her to show up and understand ultimately its a client relationship, but it was kind of her (perhaps because we are spending so much with her and she said she is writing a book on my wife).  She no-showed to both.

One thing we all know here and I am sure the doctor had to know is that YOU NEVER, EVER tell a BPD you are doing to do something then not follow through.  I think that might be a seed that will hurt the trust my wife has in the therapist now.  If she had not said anything and not shown up that would have been fine, but sometimes I wonder if the therapist is all there.  My wife keeps saying that her therapist keeps telling her how she is the most amazing person and all of this other stuff which makes me either wonder

a. my wife is delusional and misinterpeted which is possible

b. the doc is crossing a line and possibly building her up too much while not pushing her enough

No way of me actually knowing because I am not the patient.  At same time there is a difference in my wife which was never there before.  It has to be better than her med doctor who only keeps pushing ampethatmines on her.  Right now she is taking Vyvance and adderall daily.  You would think with her irritability, inability to sleep currently, loss of job, and loss of two parents, she should be on an anti-depressant/anxiety med instead of just more and more amphetamines.

Although I would have also thought that somebody who just had heart surgery like my father in law would have been put on blood thinners and anti-biotics but he wasnt.  O wait... he almost died from blood clots and he died from infection... .

Doctors... .

[Rapt Reader]

This thread has reached its post limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are encouraged to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for understanding... .