Trying to grasp that the love was not real

[antonio1213]

We had good times, but our bad times outweighed our good ones. I felt like a knight in shining armor helping her through her craziness. Her mother told my ex that it was amazing how well I handled "her daughter" and that I was "a keeper". My exBPDgf would hug me and tell me she loved me so much. All the time she would cry and tell me how much she loved me, how she couldn't live without me, how I was perfect for her in every way and she NEEDED me in her life. Every now and than she would cry during sex and just hug me telling me she loved me….all this up until the day she left. And the day she was leaving she had already split me to just being a burden on her. One day we are planning a camping trip, the next she brutally leaves me.

I guess deep down I knew that the relationship wasn't real but my brain pushed away my gut feelings. But I always thought her love for me was real. It seemed like such an intense love for me.

[myself]

Much of it may have been very real to her, she just can't handle it consistently. Intimacy is one of the main triggers here. Just as you can say the good/bad wasn't real, it's also often true that the good WAS real, as well as the bad. But when it's BPD/too many traits, the disorder rules the roost.

[Loveofhislife]

Antonio--I'm so sorry--it doesn't make sense, and it never will. Because of some ongoing legal issues, I've had to reproduce much of exBPDbf correspondence. I look forward to when I can delete it all. I was the love of his life; the best friend he ever had; he had never loved anyone so much; he couldn't live without me. Then, he left: no fight, no break up, no explanation. I have not heard the man's voice since he left on August 1. How could anyone's brain "understand" this? It seems that they can turn it on and turn it off, and love=need. I do believe he believed that he loved me. The Sunday prior to the Friday abandonment, I felt a distancing. Finally, I said, "I'm starting to think you never loved me--feels like you're just "enduring" me (he owed me a lot of money and was continuing to bleed me financially). I suppose he was entering the disassociation mode. He looked so confused; like he had no idea what I was talking about--I started wailing crying--he acted like he didn't even notice--then he reluctantly uttered, "well I think we have fun together." This from the person who couldn't live without me. He couldn't even remember. So sad... .some part of them did love us--and all of them needed us.

[Blimblam]

I wasn't in your relationship so I can't tell you what was real there.  

In my relationship the love was real. I struggled a lot with this because of my "if then" conditions on love for how I express it.  I was caught up in if she loves me how can she do this to me.  It took a lot of research on the disorder for me to figure that out for myself. Like stated intimacy is a huge trigger for the disorder as well as when they come into contact with their real self. Once their underlying truama is triggered they displace that into us and split themself.  The part of themself they are running away from becomes us and then we experience how the other parts of themself feel about this part of themself.  It's a transference of their hatred of their neglectful parent and of their inner parents hatred for a part of their inner child.  In many ways I don't think I'll ever find anyone that loved me as much as my ex it's just tragic on all accounts.

Loveofhislife

The "it doesn't make sense and it never will". I can really understand this sentiment and how you may feel that way right now. But please be aware that this is a projection of how you feel about your situation at the moment. For myself I actually do understand it. Often we project our very very understandable pain and confusion of our situation onto others and when I accepted the she didn't life me and it will never make sense line of thought it caused me harm. It simply was not true for my relationship and in my experience. It took me hundreds of hours of meditation hundreds of hours of contemplation a lot of posting and internet searches and a handful of psychology books, but I understand my ex. In fact I always knew it in my heart.

[Loveofhislife]

BlimBlam--thank you; and with some tears  :'( I must say that at some level, I always knew. It just hurts so much--I have three children who I love more than anything. One who I almost lost to a drug overdose. When my friends and family saw me with exbfBPD, many (including my older daughter) said, "Mom loves projects--she misses our brother." I loved exbf as I loved my children--caring, sacrificial love. Children rebel, but never have I had anyone "split" me. There have been many, unbelievable hard times, but love always found a way: until exbfBPD. He never told any of us goodbye or thank you or anything. He just left. No wonder we now question if it were ever love?

[peiper]

In my case I loved and adored her and she knew it. On the other side of the coin she was just using me to fill a void inside of her, that's why it was so easy to move on to someone else when we were still married, the next guy filled that void and I wasn't needed any longer. And as loveofhislife said, no fight no goodbye, but there was a lot of drama, all manufactured.Every time she split me the drama seemed to escalate. I think that was so she could justify to herself and her family what she was doing.

[evilpepsi]

Something to keep in mind here. When your entire life has hurt, when your every childhood memory cuts like a razor blade, when the ones that were supposed to love and protect you hurt you over a prolonged period, it's easy for someone to think that to be loved that someone must hurt them.

Its like entropy-all things running towards chaos. If chaos is all that you have known on the inside, how do you not project that onto those that you love?

Do I believe that they loved us? Yes. Are they capable of love? Yes. It seems like shutting down is a defense mechanism for them. The brain has learned to shut out the pain in order to survive. I have shut down emotionally in my life on several occasions. Imagine having to do it on a regular basis like they do... .

[Aussie JJ]

I'll chip in here, I've sort of asked these questions so much of myself along with everything else.  Before I go on I will make a few statements that wont sit well... . 

antonio, it was real, BB, it was real, peiper, it was real, songbook, it was real. 

I'll tell you something else, it was the closest thing you will ever get to a totally compatible partner and also also a totally incompatible partner mixed all into one.  polar opposites right... .Mine was real, she was a classmate, a friend, a lover, a source of comfort, a source of pain, our sons mother, our sons female role model (always will be as well) and finally a lesson.  The lesson wasn't something I learnt from her, it was something I learn about myself. 

I like BB learnt about the disorder, I learnt about 3 or 4 different models, dissociation model, objects relation, emotional maturity and impulse control how it effects it all, I can blend them together to get a 'complete' picture of my exBPDgf's thinking and what she is feeling using the theory. 

That wasn't the lesson.  The lesson I believe I got was learning about myself along with learning about BPD.  What my motivations were in the relationship and in those previously along with my motivations now that it has ended.  My main one is I have been a bit compliant and gone along with the flow to appease people at my own expense my whole life, I place others needs before my own.  I am the perfect match for a BPD in a developed relationship.  I give and give and give until I ultimately broke.  Now that isn't HER fault.  That is my pattern of behaviour, I own those actions and behaviours. 

So many people put down labels about their ex partners and say things like they are all leaches that move from one victim to the next, blood sucking partners that suck the life out of you.  This is sort of us processing our anger and it is acceptable however it comes at an expense.  It dehumanises the person who has those feelings, it dehumanises that person who we did love ourselves and just cant happen to understand.  All people, both those with mental illnesses and those without are entitled to feel safe, secure, loved and appreciated. 

Skip posted a link to two different images and asked the question, do you look at your ex as a monster, a source of pain and discomfort and pure evil.  Or do you look at your ex as a puzzle, one where we didn't know the missing piece.  I choose to believe that all of us are puzzles, we all have to figure out our missing pieces, I have many riddles and foibles that a mentally healthy person would be scratching there heads about, my ex idolised me all the same!  Take the good with the bad, she loved me regardless. 

The good comes with the bad in every person and every relationship.  I have learn't so much more from my experiences and about my motivations, I am starting to figure out my own puzzle. 

So, was it real... .  Yes damn straight it was.  While focusing on all of the name calling and finger pointing (it is healthy to an extent) we avoid the hard questions, those that we have to ask ourselves. 

What was your role in the relationship, I am figuring out mine.  Just as it is painful for someone with BPD to break down those defenses that baffle and puzzle us.  It is painful to examie ourselves, this is the ultimate lessons and it is one that we must learn ourselves. 

The only person you can change is yourself, the only person you can truelly understand is yourself.  Was it real to me, yes I loved her, in many ways I disregard the rest, it was real to me and that is what matters. 

Hope this adds up... .   


AJJ. 

[clydegriffith]

I have difficult fully understanding this. In retrospect, the lovebombing conducted by the BPDx from the start could not have been real to any normal person as you don't just run around telling people you're in love with them after you've known them for a week and deciding to have a child with that person after knowing them for a month. My belief is that at the time they were acting like that they really did feel that way. As ridiculous and out of the norm is it is, i think that's the case. The thing is that once the devaluation begins, they can turn on you at the drop of the dime and if they tell you they never loved you, etc, etc, then that is what they believe at the time they're telling you it. Just makes your head spin.

[Blimblam]

I have difficult fully understanding this. In retrospect, the lovebombing conducted by the BPDx from the start could not have been real to any normal person as you don't just run around telling people you're in love with them after you've known them for a week and deciding to have a child with that person after knowing them for a month. My belief is that at the time they were acting like that they really did feel that way. As ridiculous and out of the norm is it is, i think that's the case. The thing is that once the devaluation begins, they can turn on you at the drop of the dime and if they tell you they never loved you, etc, etc, then that is what they believe at the time they're telling you it. Just makes your head spin.

Love bombing sounds like it was a strike attack .  In retrospect it sure feels that way when they are some with you. It comes down to their unstable sense of self.  It is like their ego or seperate sense of self never fully formed it is like a mist or fog where a solid should be. So they use the acceptance and validation of an attachment to be able to see themself and give them identity.  They then seek to merge psyches to the core to connect as lovers and like a parent and child. They still maintain the mechanisms to elicit that form of attachment in others because they never really developed out of that phase so they just enstead got really good at it as that is how they learned to survive.

Without this validation and or attachment they don't feel like they exist.  Like they will be annihilated because then they confront the inner truama and shame they are constantly avoiding.  This drives them to seek out attachments.

[clydegriffith]

I have difficult fully understanding this. In retrospect, the lovebombing conducted by the BPDx from the start could not have been real to any normal person as you don't just run around telling people you're in love with them after you've known them for a week and deciding to have a child with that person after knowing them for a month. My belief is that at the time they were acting like that they really did feel that way. As ridiculous and out of the norm is it is, i think that's the case. The thing is that once the devaluation begins, they can turn on you at the drop of the dime and if they tell you they never loved you, etc, etc, then that is what they believe at the time they're telling you it. Just makes your head spin.

Love bombing sounds like it was a strike attack .  In retrospect it sure feels that way when they are some with you. It comes down to their unstable sense of self.  It is like their ego or seperate sense of self never fully formed it is like a mist or fog where a solid should be. So they use the acceptance and validation of an attachment to be able to see themself and give them identity.  They then seek to merge psyches to the core to connect as lovers and like a parent and child. They still maintain the mechanisms to elicit that form of attachment in others because they never really developed out of that phase so they just enstead got really good at it as that is how they learned to survive.

Without this validation and or attachment they don't feel like they exist.  Like they will be annihilated because then they confront the inner truama and shame they are constantly avoiding.  This drives them to seek out attachments.

This is true. I tell the BPDx that her entire sense of self centers around whoever she has reeled in as a victim at the present time and how many other guys she can get attention from. She used to tell me that all women keep other guys around in case things don't work out with the one they "really" want. In other words so she could be ready to jump from one person to another. This is not a healthy or normal way to go about your everyday life, especially when you have a bunch of young kids like the BPDx does.

[HappyNihilist]

antonio, it was real, BB, it was real, peiper, it was real, songbook, it was real.  

Yes, it was real.

It was real for those of us here. And it was real for the pwBPD. Just because it wasn't love in the same way you view love doesn't mean it wasn't real for them. But the most important thing to accept is that your feelings and experiences were real and valid, and nothing that anyone else could do can take that away from you.

I'll tell you something else, it was the closest thing you will ever get to a totally compatible partner and also also a totally incompatible partner mixed all into one.

This is something that kills both my exBPDbf and me, and we've talked about it a little since the breakup. We are so completely compatible (in both healthy and unhealthy ways) that we are destructive together.

A big part of my healing has been identifying those unhealthy compatibilities and being open to what they teach me about myself.

The lesson I believe I got was learning about myself along with learning about BPD.  What my motivations were in the relationship and in those previously along with my motivations now that it has ended.  My main one is I have been a bit compliant and gone along with the flow to appease people at my own expense my whole life, I place others needs before my own.  I am the perfect match for a BPD in a developed relationship.  I give and give and give until I ultimately broke.  Now that isn't HER fault.  That is my pattern of behaviour, I own those actions and behaviours.  

Exactly. If we are open to hearing the truths of ourselves, we will.

Our relationships are trying to tell us something very important about ourselves. It's up to us to listen.

So many people put down labels about their ex partners and say things like they are all leaches that move from one victim to the next, blood sucking partners that suck the life out of you.  This is sort of us processing our anger and it is acceptable however it comes at an expense.  It dehumanises the person who has those feelings, it dehumanises that person who we did love ourselves and just cant happen to understand.  All people, both those with mental illnesses and those without are entitled to feel safe, secure, loved and appreciated.  

Thank you for this.

This doesn't mean that we should feel obligated to try to "rescue" them, or to stay with them if we don't feel it's healthy. We have to take care of ourselves. But also, nobody can rescue another person, and it's really quite unfair and even insulting to think of a partner that way.

So, was it real... . Yes damn straight it was.  While focusing on all of the name calling and finger pointing (it is healthy to an extent) we avoid the hard questions, those that we have to ask ourselves.  

What was your role in the relationship, I am figuring out mine.  

Just as it is painful for someone with BPD to break down those defenses that baffle and puzzle us.  It is painful to examie ourselves, this is the ultimate lessons and it is one that we must learn ourselves.  

Thank you!

There's a strong tendency to get stuck in thought patterns like If only she would get help! or If only he could be more self-aware!. We try to tell them what's "wrong" with them, we try to push them towards "enlightenment," and then we feel frustrated because nothing changes.

We fail to recognize that it's really freaking hard to look at ourselves, learn about ourselves, and change things about our personality.

I have some news for everyone... .your ex has been telling you what's "broken" about you, too, all along. I don't mean the projections and splitting-black. They tell us these things in a different language -- one that we have to parse for ourselves once we're ready to do some hard work.

The only person you can change is yourself, the only person you can truelly understand is yourself.  Was it real to me, yes I loved her, in many ways I disregard the rest, it was real to me and that is what matters.  

[evilpepsi]

I could not agree more with that post! My ex is extremely smart like I am and we are both very stubborn and headstrong. Neither wanted to back down in a debate or intellectual conversations, and we had some deep talks. Both full of passion and sometimes that was just as bad as it was good.

It drove her crazy that I'm so based in logic and when we would argue and she strayed off topic, I would often tell her "that's not very effective communication doll. Stay on point. Argue the issue, not me... ."

[Deeno02]

It was real to be. A year and a half after my wife walked out and left me with 2 kids, I find her, or I should say she found me. I didnt persue. Why? I have low self esteem, realizing that now that Im out of this last r/s. As did she. Mother of 5, no job, husband walked out on her(I know why now) but we were both right for the low hanging fruit. I feel for it. Maybe she did love me, maybe she thought she did, maybe thats the only way she knows. Dont know. Fact is, I barely survived it. The pain and sadness was horrible and still leaves me a shell of what I once was.

Amazed how I was slowly, steadily eased out of the relationship. I saw it. Im not stupid. Thought I could make it go back to the good days, but there werent any good days left. She broke me up until the final "treat me special or lose me". Thats all she needed. I was done. New guy onboard the following week.

I miss her. I miss the good side of her. Those good side can be counted in hours a day, as there was always something wrong. Wrong with me, wrong with her, wrong with her kids, wrong with my kids, wrong with her ex, wrong with her toxic neighbor/BFF. Always something.

I was a bookmark. A thing used to hold her place until she could get back into her life again. Not good enough to be around her and her friends, not good enough to come out to her volleyball games and cheer her on. The constant adoration of being super mom. The superior ego of being a sought after volleyball coach, watching her as she got the freshman coach demoted so she could take his place. Saw it all. Just a place holder.

Damned if I did, damned if I didnt. Once was good enough to take her kids around for their schedules, then was accused of thinking that her and the kids were pains in the asses. Had the stupid love languages shoved in my face for doing things for her. Not that I didnt mind, its just that I did it so we could have time together. If she had one less thing to worry about, it was time we could spend together. But it ended up being used against me.

I couldnt win in this situation, deep down I knew that. Theres just the one thing she couldnt take from me at the time. That thing is that no matter what she said or did, I still loved her. As she pulled away, I still loved her. As she slowly cut me loose, I still loved her. Even as she said all those evil things to me and ripped the flowers from my hand, I still loved her. And as she left me standing in that gym, shattered, embarassed, shouting those evil things about me and my daughter for people to see and hear, I still loved her.

I dont anymore... I dont have the capacity anymore. Her final parting gift to me.

[AwakenedOne]

Possibly reading the actual definition of love from a dictionary, encyclopedia or a religious book might help help some with an understanding of the realness. I can't call what my ex had for me as love. She told me she loved me thousands of times though in our four year marriage.

[Aussie JJ]

Possibly reading the actual definition of love from a dictionary, encyclopedia or a religious book might help help some with an understanding of the realness. I can't call what my ex had for me as love. She told me she loved me thousands of times though in our four year marriage.

Good old wikipedia, very good point to raise though. 

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love

For me, she met my emotional needs as much as I met hers, I didn't understand all the stuff in between.  My definition of love is changing, it is no longer a word that is thrown about.  To me it is a commitment now, a commitment to love despite flaws and imperfections and to love those very same flaws and imperfections.  I love because of and despite of those issues.  Don't know if that adds up. 

Thoughts anyone... .

[Deeno02]

Possibly reading the actual definition of love from a dictionary, encyclopedia or a religious book might help help some with an understanding of the realness. I can't call what my ex had for me as love. She told me she loved me thousands of times though in our four year marriage.

Good old wikipedia, very good point to raise though. 

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love

For me, she met my emotional needs as much as I met hers, I didn't understand all the stuff in between.  My definition of love is changing, it is no longer a word that is thrown about.  To me it is a commitment now, a commitment to love despite flaws and imperfections and to love those very same flaws and imperfections.  I love because of and despite of those issues.  Don't know if that adds up. 

Thoughts anyone... .

Dont think I have the capacity anymore for a loving relationship.  Not now. Maybe never. In her eyes, i wasnt good enough and its amazing the repurcussions in my life because of that.

[downwhim]

My ex said "I loved you for the 8 years we were together and I love you now." This is a day before he broke up with me... .it is not love. Maybe in their delusional mind.

[HappyNihilist]

It drove her crazy that I'm so based in logic and when we would argue and she strayed off topic, I would often tell her "that's not very effective communication doll. Stay on point. Argue the issue, not me... ."

Well, to be fair to her, hearing that from my partner would irritate me, too.    

I couldnt win in this situation, deep down I knew that. Theres just the one thing she couldnt take from me at the time. That thing is that no matter what she said or did, I still loved her. As she pulled away, I still loved her. As she slowly cut me loose, I still loved her. Even as she said all those evil things to me and ripped the flowers from my hand, I still loved her. And as she left me standing in that gym, shattered, embarassed, shouting those evil things about me and my daughter for people to see and hear, I still loved her.

I dont anymore... I dont have the capacity anymore. Her final parting gift to me.

It's completely understandable to feel that way, Deeno. We all have our "breaking points," beyond which we just can't take the emotional strain of another person anymore.

But I hope you don't allow that to turn into this:

Dont think I have the capacity anymore for a loving relationship.  Not now. Maybe never. In her eyes, i wasnt good enough and its amazing the repurcussions in my life because of that.

I know how painful and invalidating it feels to have a r/s end like this. And I certainly support the idea of taking time to focus on yourself -- it's vital.

But please don't get trapped in thinking you are emotionally destroyed and lack the capacity of have a loving relationship. You are lovable -- you wouldn't have triggered your ex's fears so strongly if not. You are kind, compassionate, and tolerant. You have all of the capacity for a healthy, loving relationship inside you. No one else can take that away from you or make it less true.

It seems that we often get locked into this idea of love as a non-renewable resource. As if we are born with a certain amount of love available, already within us, and we dip from this finite well throughout our lives.

The truth is that we are infinitely capable of love, and we can and most likely will love all sorts of people during our journey. Sometimes this love is platonic, sometimes romantic. Sometimes we stay close for our whole lives, sometimes we drift apart. And sometimes we have to turn and walk away, because yes, sometimes we love people we can't have healthy relationships with.

I think one of the best expressions of love can be found in the movie Harold and Maude, particularly this scene:

HAROLD: But Maude, you don't understand. I love you. Do you hear me? I've never said that to anyone in my life before. You're the first. Maude. Please don't leave me.

MAUDE: Oh, Harold, don't upset yourself so.

HAROLD: It's true. I can't live without you.

MAUDE: (smiles warmly) "And this too shall pass away."

HAROLD: Never! Never! I'll never forget you. I wanted to marry you. Don't you understand! I love you. I love you!

MAUDE: Oh! That's wonderful, Harold. Go - and love some more.

Take all the time you need. Heal in whatever way(s) is best for you. And then... ."go - and love some more."  

[downwhim]

Websters definition of love "A feeling of strong or constant regard for and dedication to someone."

[Pingo]

I'll chip in here, I've sort of asked these questions so much of myself along with everything else.  Before I go on I will make a few statements that wont sit well... . 

antonio, it was real, BB, it was real, peiper, it was real, songbook, it was real. 

I'll tell you something else, it was the closest thing you will ever get to a totally compatible partner and also also a totally incompatible partner mixed all into one.  polar opposites right... .Mine was real, she was a classmate, a friend, a lover, a source of comfort, a source of pain, our sons mother, our sons female role model (always will be as well) and finally a lesson.  The lesson wasn't something I learnt from her, it was something I learn about myself. 

I like BB learnt about the disorder, I learnt about 3 or 4 different models, dissociation model, objects relation, emotional maturity and impulse control how it effects it all, I can blend them together to get a 'complete' picture of my exBPDgf's thinking and what she is feeling using the theory. 

That wasn't the lesson.  The lesson I believe I got was learning about myself along with learning about BPD.  What my motivations were in the relationship and in those previously along with my motivations now that it has ended.  My main one is I have been a bit compliant and gone along with the flow to appease people at my own expense my whole life, I place others needs before my own.  I am the perfect match for a BPD in a developed relationship.  I give and give and give until I ultimately broke.  Now that isn't HER fault.  That is my pattern of behaviour, I own those actions and behaviours. 

So many people put down labels about their ex partners and say things like they are all leaches that move from one victim to the next, blood sucking partners that suck the life out of you.  This is sort of us processing our anger and it is acceptable however it comes at an expense.  It dehumanises the person who has those feelings, it dehumanises that person who we did love ourselves and just cant happen to understand.  All people, both those with mental illnesses and those without are entitled to feel safe, secure, loved and appreciated. 

Skip posted a link to two different images and asked the question, do you look at your ex as a monster, a source of pain and discomfort and pure evil.  Or do you look at your ex as a puzzle, one where we didn't know the missing piece.  I choose to believe that all of us are puzzles, we all have to figure out our missing pieces, I have many riddles and foibles that a mentally healthy person would be scratching there heads about, my ex idolised me all the same!  Take the good with the bad, she loved me regardless. 

The good comes with the bad in every person and every relationship.  I have learn't so much more from my experiences and about my motivations, I am starting to figure out my own puzzle. 

So, was it real... .  Yes damn straight it was.  While focusing on all of the name calling and finger pointing (it is healthy to an extent) we avoid the hard questions, those that we have to ask ourselves. 

What was your role in the relationship, I am figuring out mine.  Just as it is painful for someone with BPD to break down those defenses that baffle and puzzle us.  It is painful to examie ourselves, this is the ultimate lessons and it is one that we must learn ourselves. 

The only person you can change is yourself, the only person you can truelly understand is yourself.  Was it real to me, yes I loved her, in many ways I disregard the rest, it was real to me and that is what matters. 

Hope this adds up... .   


AJJ. 

Wise words AJJ, thanks for this.