How do others deal with the lack of intimacy in a BPD marriage?

[bobcat2014]

Hello everyone,

My uBPDw and I have very little intimacy. Before the discovery of BPD, I always rationalized the reasons, excuses for her disinterest in sex and closeness. The communication tools I have learn here have helped out our marriage. But now the kids are out of the house, I figured things would be better in establishing closeness with less distractions and more privacy. Not happening and it actually got worse. She picked up more hours at work or has a crisis to solve for someone else. I really go out of my way to make things as quiet as possible in our home. Dishes, laundry, housework are done before she gets home while working 55 hours weekly and attending graduate courses. I dont get it. The duty sex I get rewarded with is cold and resentful. I feel guilty afterwards because I know she cant stand it and my needs seem selfish to her. Any ideas to share?

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[Ripped Heart]

Hi bobcat,

I'm really sorry to hear about the intimacy issues you are having and how this must be frustrating for you.

My situation has been similar to yours over the past several months, in the beginning it was several times a day to the point of me actually asking to slow things down because I was exhausted. I think she was getting it out of her system at the start because it soon slowed down and seemed like a big ask if I suggested anything, yet she states when she needs it and gets upset if you don't respond immediately. Like you too, it seems cold and resentful.

I've tried to address the intimacy issue but she gets angry or frustrated, so communication is out on that one. I've tried to be romantic but that hasn't worked either. The closer I get, the more she pulls away so it's just about finding that balance.

I had a similar issue with my ex-wife who was definitely cluster B personality where it was great in the beginning but faded as the months went on. What caught me off guard with that was she told our Therapist I was the one not showing intimacy despite many debates we had around it. I once told her that I didn't know many people who actually argued over intimacy. However, every single night she would want me to tickle her back so she could fall asleep just like her mother used to do when she was younger. If I stopped of fell asleep before she did, she would rage at me. To her that was the intimacy, to me there was no compromise on needs.

From what I've discovered around BPD and from the site is that once the fear sets in, they are afraid to get too close in case you abandon them and if they do get too close it can usually end up with some kind of anxiety. It's the push pull situation. I'm sure there are others on here who have had more success and I do feel for the situation you find yourself in right now. The question I have for you is why do you feel guilty for wanting something that is perfectly natural and normal?

[bobcat2014]

Ripped,

Thank you for the response. Your back rub example describes exactly what our cycle is, exactly. It is a trade off or barter system.

I always suspected the pressure I put on her for more intimacy was causing her anxiety.

[Mie]

My SO started to push me away about 4 years ago, when he cheated me. He blames me for not wanting to be intimate.

He also blames me for: not being able to have sex, not being able to love, not being able to express my emotions, totally lacking sex appeal, being the ugliest most repulsive woman he has ever seen in his life.

How do I deal with it? I guess I live in an illusion that when all the obstacles that make him dysregulate, are gone (like solving financial problems) , we can start building normal life and  intimacy again... .

[bobcat2014]

My SO started to push me away about 4 years ago, when he cheated me. He blames me for not wanting to be intimate.

He also blames me for: not being able to have sex, not being able to love, not being able to express my emotions, totally lacking sex appeal, being the ugliest most repulsive woman he has ever seen in his life.

How do I deal with it? I guess I live in an illusion that when all the obstacles that make him dysregulate, are gone (like solving financial problems) , we can start building normal life and  intimacy again... .

I have been married 20 years and never once felt like she was truly mine. It seems she could up and leave at any moment, and I would be to blame for all my faults and inability to make her happy.

[bobcat2014]

Mie,

My advise is to understand these folks are wired wrong from the factory. The fact that you are here helping others with advice and learning about BPD shows you to be a wonderful person. I am sorry someone could say that and make you feel that way.

[MissyM]

For me, this is the main problem in our relationship.  We have no intimacy, no emotional intimacy, no financial intimacy and no sexual intimacy.  I am not willing to have perfunctory sex.  We have started working with couple therapists out of California, and I have  friend that had BPD symptoms and her husband had NPD symptoms, who have totally healed their relationship with this approach.  I am going to give it time with them, if this works and I can get my needs met then I am in.  Otherwise, it will be the end for me.  I haven't told my dBPDh that but have been clear with the therapists.  Either he does the hard work it is going to take to build intimacy and so do I, or we are not going to be a couple.  It is a basic value that I hold, so if he decides he doesn't want to do the work to get there, then I have no choice but to move on.

[formflier]

My advise is to understand these folks are wired wrong from the factory. 

Hey... .little bit of "correction" here.  I think the above sentiment is close... .and I acknowledge that some people may be "wired" this way... .maybe. 

What I think is better to understand is that the traits are very persistent and will be resistant to change.  But they can change.

When I think of people "wired" a certain way... .that leads me to think that you can't change without a "rewire"... .or "new biology.

Again... doubtful if we will ever know exactly how much is biological and therefore "wired"... .

My personal opinion is that the bio component is on the low side and that a childhood in a highly "invalidating" environment is the main culprit.

Thoughts?

[Cat Familiar]

My H certainly had the highly invalidating environment as a child and his family has continued to be extremely invalidating to him as an adult.

Our sex life is nonexistent and he said some time ago that he couldn't be intimate with me because he didn't "trust" me. It has nothing to do with cheating or even flirting. What he doesn't trust is that I've been too damn honest with what I think and feel.

Now that I've discovered that he fits the criteria for BPD very well, I understand more about what he means. But I cannot erase past history. So I'm starting to rebuild bridges between us and reconnecting on an emotional, if not physical level.

I must take responsibility for my part in pushing away intimacy. With his abuse of drugs and prescription medicine, he has, at times, totally repulsed me. He is doing better about not going to excess, so that's helpful. I still have fears about what his habits are doing to him. And he still has fears about my judgment of his habits. So it's sort of a stalemate.

Since I have more ability to alter my thoughts and feelings, the burden is upon me if I truly want more intimacy. I'm not sure I want to be vulnerable like I was. Addicts are not attractive to me.   

[bobcat2014]

Flier,

I did not mean to spread disinformation. I can only help BPD is repairable.

[maxsterling]

I was going to post a similar topic, just didn't know how to phrase it. 

Intimacy in my r/s has been slowly declining, to the point we haven't had sex in over a month.  She is blaming anti-depressants and my lack of initiating, while I think her depression, poor self image, and poor attitude need to be considered.  Frankly, she's been in a bad mood for most of a month, and I haven't felt much like having sex with her.  Right now, I would prefer to have intimacy without sex, as I think we need to build back up from there.  The last time we tried to have sex was a complete disaster, with her blaming me for doing it wrong, not being aggressive enough, her having some kind of PTSD-type reaction that ended with her crying and punching and kicking the mattress, and me feeling ashamed and completely non-sexual.  Frankly, I am still recovering from that, and it may be awhile (a long while) before my self confidence returns in this area. 

I think her excuses involving the medication and my lack of initiative are just excuses she is making for herself rather than admit to herself some big issues she is facing right now.  Last night she made the comment "I wonder if when I am off the medicine I will feel like jumping your bones."  And right afterwards, she berated me for braking too hard at a red light.  Today, she emailed me an article about what women really want in the bedroom.  Seems like this is still an issue, and seems like she is still blaming me somehow.

[Crumbling]

This is the hardest part - dealing with the lack of intimacy.   It seems, to be BPD, is to fear intimacy, and to avoid it like mouldy leftovers pushed to the back of the fridge!

I wonder, what's more important, quality or quantity?  And by whose standards?  What's good for the goose isn't always good for the gander.  

Our sexual r/s fluctuates.  Some times are better than others.  The bad times do keep getting worse, but the good times are also getting better.  And the frequency is always diminishing.  In our honeymoon phases, which do creep back in now and then (you know, on the rare occasions when the stars align and when the all chips fall in the right places), those times looked different ten years ago then they do now, that's for sure!

[formflier]

 

A challenge that I'll put out there to all of us "nons"... .is to consider that just like we are the emotional leaders in our r/s... .we should also be the leaders in the intimate or sexual part of our r/s.

I've had many counselors say... .and read books about how sex is the "glue" that holds a marriage together.  And marriages that "glue" themselves together often... ."stick together"  (working the analogies as hard as I can here... .)

So... .the challenge that I will put out there for nons is to take the lead and "push appropriately" for more sex. 

Just like adding validation will help things work better... .more sex usually does as well. 

It doesn't always have to be mind blowing.  You don't always have to be "in the mood". 

This is something that you do for your r/s... .it's something you do for your partner... .and yeah... .you get benefit from it as well.

Rejection is tough... .in fact... one of my hardest BPD trait moments was when my wife tried to use sex to get me to give up my password to gmail (a boundary I had set... .she was having extinction burst).  Luckily I was able to stay cool and worked through it... and I honestly didn't and don't hold it against her or take it personally.

I encourage everyone to try and not put too many conditions on when they will have sex or allow their partner to have sex with them... .

Fire up the slow music!   

[maxsterling]

Last night, my wife apparently couldn't sleep.  So, at some point in the middle of the night, I awoke with her hands down my pants and trying to force me awake to have sex.  Of course, I was barely awake, exhausted, and I told her I was too tired, and fell back asleep.  She's my wife.  I feel a little violated here.  Why?

I really wish she would make time sometime other than the middle of the night to live in the present so that we can be intimate. 

[formflier]

 

Ahh... the middle of the night grope...

In my younger days this was common (I'm in my mid 40s now... )

I've done this and been the recipient of this... .probably wouldn't be resistant if it happened again... but seems like the older we get the more we value sleep.

Max,

My guess is you feel violated over lots of other issues... .and sex is an extension of that.

Most people say sex life is a barometer of what is going on in the rest of the r/s.

How was she acting today?  If you had gone ahead and had a romp with her... .do you think she would act differently today?

[maxsterling]

My guess is you feel violated over lots of other issues... .and sex is an extension of that.

Most people say sex life is a barometer of what is going on in the rest of the r/s.

How was she acting today?  If you had gone ahead and had a romp with her... .do you think she would act differently today?

Yes, definitely true.  This incident alone is not the issue, as I perhaps should feel happy that she is paying attention to me physically again. 

- it brings back painful memories of a previous r/s when I felt objectified and sex was often demanded, and if I refused I was ridiculed.

- I sometimes feel like I have been mistreated or emotionally ignored in this r/s, so for her to wake me in the middle of the night wanting sex feels like she wants sexual satisfaction without putting in the emotional effort.    I'm someone who needs a spiritual/emotional connection with sex. 

[Mie]

A challenge that I'll put out there to all of us "nons"... .is to consider that just like we are the emotional leaders in our r/s... .we should also be the leaders in the intimate or sexual part of our r/s.

That is a very good point, thank you!

Just recently I have taken leadership in some business/financial decisions because it's crucial. He has no choice but to listen to me, and (after an exhausting series of episodes) things are taking the right direction because of his great problem solving skills.

Why couldn't same happen with intimacy? How can I make him interested in tantric sex?   

[formflier]

Why couldn't same happen with intimacy? How can I make him interested in tantric sex?   

Sounds like he needs to think it is his idea... .

Tell him you need help figuring out which these books to use to spice up your sex life... .(have several to choose from... )... .see where it goes...

[ColdEthyl]

A challenge that I'll put out there to all of us "nons"... .is to consider that just like we are the emotional leaders in our r/s... .we should also be the leaders in the intimate or sexual part of our r/s.

I've had many counselors say... .and read books about how sex is the "glue" that holds a marriage together.  And marriages that "glue" themselves together often... ."stick together"  (working the analogies as hard as I can here... .)

So... .the challenge that I will put out there for nons is to take the lead and "push appropriately" for more sex. 

Just like adding validation will help things work better... .more sex usually does as well. 

It doesn't always have to be mind blowing.  You don't always have to be "in the mood". 

This is something that you do for your r/s... .it's something you do for your partner... .and yeah... .you get benefit from it as well.

Rejection is tough... .in fact... one of my hardest BPD trait moments was when my wife tried to use sex to get me to give up my password to gmail (a boundary I had set... .she was having extinction burst).  Luckily I was able to stay cool and worked through it... and I honestly didn't and don't hold it against her or take it personally.

I encourage everyone to try and not put too many conditions on when they will have sex or allow their partner to have sex with them... .

Fire up the slow music!   

I need to start doing this, thank you for this post! My dBPDh is suffering from ED, and whether it's mental or not I am not sure. However, that doesn't mean I don't like trying... .but he doesn't like "failing"

He says to me he wants me to be more aggressive and demand it of him, but there's been a lot of times I have initiated only to be rejected. The rejection really cuts into me, since I already feel insecure about 'being aggressive'

Talking about this situation never really goes well. Last night we talked about it some, and he usually says the same things over and over again. "A woman's body is always ready for sex. You can't understand what it's like for me" and... .

(If this is TMI I apologize, but it's what I don't know how to answer) "No matter what my tongue still works, and you can have it any time you want."

Yes that's true... .for the most part. There's still been a few times he declined but I'm not worried about that. I cannot figure how to say ummm... .yeah that's great and all (and it is) and I'm appreciative of that but... .I still miss the 'full menu'

When I bring up going to a doc to get checked out and possibly some pills, the conversation goes bad. "Oh, you would be ok with a medicated *bleep*" Yes... .I would.

I tell him every time if he had to take a pill that's fine. He doesn't choose for this to happen to him, so why would I think badly of him or be angry?

I'm not getting anywhere with this problem.

[maxsterling]

He says to me he wants me to be more aggressive and demand it of him, but there's been a lot of times I have initiated only to be rejected. The rejection really cuts into me, since I already feel insecure about 'being aggressive'

+ 1,000,000 here.  uggh.  I get the same thing.  She will say she wants me to be aggressive sometimes, or blame me for never initiating anything.  Yet I don't feel like initiating anything because not an hour goes by she is not complaining about some kind of pain or being tired or depressed.  If I felt depressed or tired or in pain, I would not want her to initiate with me.  I hesitate to initiate with her if I am getting mixed signals.  And then she will want me to be more aggressive in the act, saying it will help her get in the mood.  Meanwhile, she isn't doing much to touch me, and then it all feels mechanical, and sometimes she's not even smiling... .and UGH.  End result, is I feel completely self-conscious to the point my parts won't work, I don't want to discuss it because last time I hadn't gotten past the basic subject and she dysregulated to a huge and dangerous degree, and right now I think I would prefer closeness and intimacy in ways that don't feel so much like a chore.

So formflier - I see what you are saying.  But right now I just feel damaged and completely awkward in this area.  Other things I can "force" myself through and feel okay with.  But I don't know about sex.  I don't know if I can have sex if I am "not in the mood" simply for the point of being the emotional leader. 

[Crumbling]

Oh, my.  What a stinky kettle of fish we've opened up here with this topic! I'm going to share, just so you know you are not the only ones dealing with ED.

My BPDh has had ED since before I met him.  He says he has been this way his whole adult life, and it is because of an alignment issue in his back that blocks... .something... .I'm not sure what, I just know of the results, and it is NOT an easy road.

He takes pills.  He has taken different ones that have different effects.  He can obtain the end results without experiencing a total erection, so we have done it without the pills, too.

For us, this makes sex all about him.  It has been all about what he needs, what he wants, how he wants it, when he wants it and what works for him.  That means each time it is initiated by either of us, it's for him, his way.  I feel undesired, unattractive, and unwanted most of the time.  I feel like I'm just 'the means to an end'.  

When he takes the pill, he wants to get as much out of it as he can, and becomes... .unquenchable, and we feast.  My plans get changed around, where I am in my head doesn't matter, because he has ' repped' himself, we can't waste it, and away we go.  I hate that feeling of being the last one to be considered in the deal.  Now, he doesn't take anything unless I give the go-ahead.  This isn't ideal either, because we have no spontaneity, no in-the-moment passion.  I hate it.  Everything must be 'discussed' first.  So mechanical.

It has only been in the last little while that I've stepped back and said, no, I'm not interested in this type of love making anymore.  I've asked for things I've wanted, in spite of the fear of opening myself up and being vulnerable, and he either ignores my requests or rejects them.  So, I took things into my own hands, so to speak.    I no longer rely on him for sexual gratification.  This situation is again, not ideal.  Like CE said, I do still crave ''the full menu", but it removes him from being needed, which somehow, is helping the situation.

Max, you sound like a healthy male who is in touch with your emotions enough to need the connection to make the connection.  You do not need to hold guilt over not being 'en garde' at the drop of a hat, or pants, in this situation.  She likely dysregulated because she felt like it was her fault and couldn't handle it.  I know I personalize hubby's lack of response, a lot, and feel like I'm the one not doing my job right.  

I've also thought about what FF said, about the sex being a barometer for the rest of the r/s.  This makes sense.  I am looking to re-gain my own identity right now, and that is sure reflected in our sex lives!

Thanks for sharing, everyone.  What a tough, but important, topic!

Merry Saturday, all!

[formflier]

  I don't know if I can have sex if I am "not in the mood" simply for the point of being the emotional leader. 

Understand... .

How about a naked back rub... .with oil.  Or other things "less than" the full menu. 

The point seems to be that you are doing something physically for the other person... .not for you.  That you are giving of yourself and are trying to do things that please the other person.

The hope is that they will reciprocate... .not in a transactional kind of way... .but in a "i appreciate the effort you make for me... .so I will make an effort for you... ."  way.

[formflier]

 

Crumbling,

I'm thinking a "help me understand conversation" is needed with your hubby.  DO NOT ask WHY.

You "just" need help understanding how he wants to be communicated with so he can meet your need... .since you are obviously meeting his.

Don't suggest he doesn't want to.  Assume the best... .listen for things to validate.   My guess is there is a lot if insecurity to validate and work through on his part.

Ask him to help you with your... .umm... .  electrical connections... .   Explain to him what feels good... .etc etc.

Don't worry about TMI here... .none of this is vulgar... and sex is a HUGE part of a r/s. 

So... .I routinely "help" my wife in ways that she wants.  Honestly I don't get much out of it... .it can be arousing... .fun... .but it is definitely a "detour" from where I want to go... .if... .all I wanted was a pathway to my satisfaction.

She appreciates it... and usually doesn't have an issue doing whatever I want... ."when it is my turn".

Every once in a great while we can get satisfied at the same time... .but that has been an elusive goal for us... .so we don't focus on it much.

[Crumbling]

I appreciate the suggestion, FF, but my BPDh and I are so far from being that intimate right now ... .I'd settle for the back rub idea, at this point. 

This is hard to talk about.  It's harder still to understand.  I am starting to make a connection between his hang ups in everyday life, and what we face in the bedroom, tho, so that's a start.

[Crumbling]

As FF said:  "The point seems to be that you are doing something physically for the other person... .not for you.  That you are giving of yourself and are trying to do things that please the other person.  The hope is that they will reciprocate... .not in a transactional kind of way... .but in a "i appreciate the effort you make for me... .so I will make an effort for you... ."  way.  "

 "doing something physically for the other person, not for you."

I see where a pwBPD would have difficulty with this.  I also see why so many of us nons crave it.

Nice food for thought!

[ColdEthyl]

He says to me he wants me to be more aggressive and demand it of him, but there's been a lot of times I have initiated only to be rejected. The rejection really cuts into me, since I already feel insecure about 'being aggressive'

+ 1,000,000 here.  uggh.  I get the same thing.  She will say she wants me to be aggressive sometimes, or blame me for never initiating anything.  Yet I don't feel like initiating anything because not an hour goes by she is not complaining about some kind of pain or being tired or depressed.  If I felt depressed or tired or in pain, I would not want her to initiate with me.  I hesitate to initiate with her if I am getting mixed signals.  And then she will want me to be more aggressive in the act, saying it will help her get in the mood.  Meanwhile, she isn't doing much to touch me, and then it all feels mechanical, and sometimes she's not even smiling... .and UGH.  End result, is I feel completely self-conscious to the point my parts won't work, I don't want to discuss it because last time I hadn't gotten past the basic subject and she dysregulated to a huge and dangerous degree, and right now I think I would prefer closeness and intimacy in ways that don't feel so much like a chore.

So formflier - I see what you are saying.  But right now I just feel damaged and completely awkward in this area.  Other things I can "force" myself through and feel okay with.  But I don't know about sex.  I don't know if I can have sex if I am "not in the mood" simply for the point of being the emotional leader. 

I am so so there with you. It wasn't THAT long ago this used to be natural rofl

Yeah he does that, too. He spends so much time talking about being depressed, this hurt that hurts, how he hasn't showered that day... .when exactly am I supposed to be aggressive or initiate sex? How am I supposed to even WANT to? I tried explaining that... .ofc I got nowhere.

Sex isn't everything to me. I still love HIM and spending time with HIM, but I'm not dead either. Sometimes I think to myself, "Well... .is that it? At 34 your love life is over, never to see the light of day again?" That's depressing.

[formflier]

when exactly am I supposed to be aggressive or initiate sex? 

No time like right now!  Go for it!

So... seriously... .what if you asked him to go to take a shower... .or that you would go take one with him... .would he say no?

If he does say no... .any history of "scheduling" this kind of thing.

Here is the big point... .is that if there are things in the r/s that us "nons" are not happy with... .And I get it loud and clear from cold ethyl that she is not happy with her intimate life right now... .then it is up to us... ."the nons" to take charge of fixing it.

Listen... .even bigger general statement.  Waiting on a pwBPD traits to fix things in a r/s is not a good strategy.

Intimate issues are no different... .

[Crumbling]

"Waiting on a pwBPD traits to fix things in a r/s is not a good strategy. "  Here, here! 

That being said, you can help guide them and give them a safe place to attempt to make things better... .like setting someone up for success.

Here's how things unfolded in our home, when I applied FF's advice:

First, the set up:  he was home from work yesterday and we had a nice supper with friends.  I helped him be comfortable with this because I didn't tell him before hand (that always makes things worse because of his fretting and worrying), I didn't expect any help from him, and I made sure he realized that this may be our only visitors for the holidays, and so we should make it a good visit.  He enjoyed himself and was actually laughing out loud and telling jokes the way he used to.  It made my heart swell SSOO much to see him enjoying himself.

After they left, and we were both still glowing from the great visit, I attempted to have a 'help me understand' conversation (on FF's advice) with him about how he finds it difficult to give me what I request within our sex life.  I've not applied this technique before, so I was curious to see what would happen.

His first response was to pretend he didn't understand the question, so I gave a recent example of what I meant.  I assured him I just wanted to talk about it in an attempt to find common ground that would benefit us both.  Then he tried saying something that would make me feel sorry for him.  I validated his pain/suffering, but also stated that his response did not answer the question.  And we both stayed in our good mood though all this, and everything was said with the slightest of grins on our faces.  Like we had an inside joke we were sharing.  And we did!  We both recognized his natural BPD responses to my question, and I refused to let that lead me away from my goal of getting an answer out of him, or ruin our mood, and he kept trying something else. 

So then he changed the subject.  We both broke out laughing, I kissed him on the forehead and told him it was okay.  We could talk about it later.  Then we went about our evening.

He came over to me a little later and asked what I would want if I could have anything from him sexually.  It took me a while to answer, because all I could do was just grin, from ear to ear!  I didn't delve into all my deep dark desires.  Instead, I turned it back to validating him, thanking him for asking and hugging him close, stating how I know it's a hard thing for him to do, to consider my needs and how I appreciate his question.  I said it helps just to be asked.  So then he even asked me a second time.  Oh, the flow of validation was wonderful!  This is the first time in ten years he has asked me this question!

All I needed to do was look him in the eye with a huge smile and say, "you know what I want". 

And he did.  And he grinned.  Being a pwBPD, like clockwork, he immediately turned everything back around to him, and he told me something he wants sexually, that he has never asked for before.  With a little discussion, just to appease the disease, it was clear I knew what he wanted without him ever voicing it either.

We didn't say yes or no to either of our requests, but just both sort of enjoyed the validation we were feeling.  We again, went about our evening, doing this and that.  Later on, he was in the shower.  I applied FF's advice again, and joined him.  This lead to some nice intimacy without 'the full menu', and the evening moved on, each doing our own thing.

Then later, when we were in bed, and I didn't offer, but just started putting lotion on his legs, where he has eczema (a small detour from FF's advice, but from the same vein). 

And, well, the rest of the story is fully censored but be rest assured, it was a great ending to a great day!

Thank you so much, friends, for helping me through everything when I need it the most!

I'm here to say all the hard work is worth the gain.  Every single little crumb of it!

Blessings, all.  Merry Monday!

[formflier]

 

 

Did you have a disco ball going?

Nice work!

   

[hergestridge]

As FF said:  "The point seems to be that you are doing something physically for the other person... .not for you.  That you are giving of yourself and are trying to do things that please the other person.  The hope is that they will reciprocate... .not in a transactional kind of way... .but in a "i appreciate the effort you make for me... .so I will make an effort for you... ."  way.  "

 "doing something physically for the other person, not for you."

I see where a pwBPD would have difficulty with this.  I also see why so many of us nons crave it.

Nice food for thought!

I can also see where this can become difficult slash impossible. I had this discussion many times with my wife. She knows the fair/right thing to do is to reciprocate. But she won't do it, because it's "unfair" that she has to do it when she it doesn't give her immediate pleasure.

Just like when she agrees to help people with things, only to bail out once she finds out that it takes some effort and wasn't as much fun as she thought. She gets stuck in the "unfair" thinking again and eventually blames/devalues the person she intended to help out.

I think only therapy can help a pwBPD to understand reciprocity. From the outset they don't have a clue.