Having a hard time with all this in my life right now.

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

 I been battling for months now with my ex girlfriend about our 5 month old daughter. I was only dating her for two months and she had got pregnant and it was all downhill from there. I tried so hard to make things work out between us but she lives about 45-hour away and she never would drive to see me because she states that she was pregnant and could not risk the chance of getting in an accident (Bull Crap) and the only way i would see her is by driving to her house and it got old really fast. I was always by her side from the beginning of this pregnancy and I got little respect from her or her mother and or family whatsoever.

She is a School teacher and instantly became so paranoid she would lose her career because she was having a baby and not married and demanded i buy her an engagement ring because it would save her reputation. I could not just go and buy a ring for a woman whom i hardly seen and only have been with for 2 months (who would) I said to her " Let's get closer to each other " but she still was so scared that she basically pushed me far far away and her demands got even worse because she anted a $10,000 ring and then wanted me to buy a new house because she said that because of my job (Firefighter) I am forced to live in Indiana and if she makes a sacrifice to be with me she won't live in my house because it's my house and it's my rules and so on.

I was also puzzled by how she handled this amongst her friends and family as she was always hiding her belly by wearing scarfs and did not tell any of her friends or family except her mom,dad and sister.

I was at every doctor visit basically I went to birthing classes and her mom was always there trying to be the boss on everything. She has baby on 7-21-14 and I get notified by a freaking text message saying " Water broke on way to Hospital " I get there as soon as i can only to be told "Get out" as I went to the room.

The following day in my opinion was the final draw for me. She says they need you to sign VAP (Birth certificate) I go there and her last name was that of my daughters which totally killed me and I was always wondering was this my kid or not? I was advised by attorney to not sign birth certificate if my name was not on it so I didn't and requested a DNA test.

I filed in IN asap and for paternity and she filed in IL (Her home) and I agreed to take case to IL. I had to wait 3 months for DNA test because her lawyer refused me to have one and then i finally got it and child is mine (Which I thought but was not sure) I get one hour a week to see my daughter I put her under my insurance from birth (advised to by lawyer) and this is how I get to be a father?

She wants me to pay her $900 a month which includes her insurance for my daughter. I pay $60.00 extra a month and she pays $480 why she would put her on hers is ridiculous. I would also only get 2 hours every other weekend (supervised)

I am not agreeing to this proposal and I hope this is standard tactics.

[ynguns2]

 I been battling for months now with my ex girlfriend about our 5 month old daughter. I was only dating her for two months and she had got pregnant and it was all downhill from there. I tried so hard to make things work out between us but she lives about 45-hour away and she never would drive to see me because she states that she was pregnant and could not risk the chance of getting in an accident (Bull Crap) and the only way i would see her is by driving to her house and it got old really fast. I was always by her side from the beginning of this pregnancy and I got little respect from her or her mother and or family whatsoever.

She is a School teacher and instantly became so paranoid she would lose her career because she was having a baby and not married and demanded i buy her an engagement ring because it would save her reputation. I could not just go and buy a ring for a woman whom i hardly seen and only have been with for 2 months (who would) I said to her " Let's get closer to each other " but she still was so scared that she basically pushed me far far away and her demands got even worse because she anted a $10,000 ring and then wanted me to buy a new house because she said that because of my job (Firefighter) I am forced to live in Indiana and if she makes a sacrifice to be with me she won't live in my house because it's my house and it's my rules and so on.

I was also puzzled by how she handled this amongst her friends and family as she was always hiding her belly by wearing scarfs and did not tell any of her friends or family except her mom,dad and sister.

I was at every doctor visit basically I went to birthing classes and her mom was always there trying to be the boss on everything. She has baby on 7-21-14 and I get notified by a freaking text message saying " Water broke on way to Hospital " I get there as soon as i can only to be told "Get out" as I went to the room.

The following day in my opinion was the final draw for me. She says they need you to sign VAP (Birth certificate) I go there and her last name was that of my daughters which totally killed me and I was always wondering was this my kid or not? I was advised by attorney to not sign birth certificate if my name was not on it so I didn't and requested a DNA test.

I filed in IN asap and for paternity and she filed in IL (Her home) and I agreed to take case to IL. I had to wait 3 months for DNA test because her lawyer refused me to have one and then i finally got it and child is mine (Which I thought but was not sure) I get one hour a week to see my daughter I put her under my insurance from birth (advised to by lawyer) and this is how I get to be a father?

She wants me to pay her $900 a month which includes her insurance for my daughter. I pay $60.00 extra a month and she pays $480 why she would put her on hers is ridiculous. I would also only get 2 hours every other weekend (supervised)

I am not agreeing to this proposal and I hope this is standard tactics.

[livednlearned]

Why supervised? That seems ridiculous.

Also, $900 a month seems high. Is that what the state guidelines suggest?

What is your ideal scenario? What kind of parenting schedule would you like with your daughter?

[ForeverDad]

Supervision is ridiculous unless (1) it is temporary while initial allegations are being investigated or (2) you are found to be a risk to the child of child abuse, child neglect or child endangerment.  Never submit to supervised visits unless ordered by court or so advised by your attorney for very good reason.

Same with her demands for money, leave it to the court or CS agencies to determine support.  However, once ordered, be prepared to pay retroactive child support back to the date of filing.

Also, the courts are very likely to tell her the parent with the cheaper health insurance is the one who provides coverage unless perhaps there is some overriding medical reason.

That said, she and her mother are very likely to make endless allegations and perhaps even frame you for abuse or neglect.  So if you aren't supervised in the future, try to figure out how to protect yourself from attempts to restrict your parenting?  Me, I eventually had 3 recorders just in case I left one behind, one had dead batteries or one was full.  Even so, it sure felt like I had repeated close calls.  And lots of time I visited with family and friends so I had witnesses that nothing bad happened on my watch while they were there.

When my then stbEx had raged at our preschooler's pediatrician's staff and they promptly "withdrew services" she realized she looked very bad with the pending divorce.  So within a week, after my next weekend with my son, I found out that she had made an allegation that I had raged at my son and beat him on his shins.  Since he parroted mother's story the hospital did refer it to CPS but noted his shins had normal bruises for an active boy of his age.  Turned out son later said he though he got it when playing on the monkey bars.  At a park with his mother!

So my ex felt the Need to make me look worse than her.  It didn't work, none of her allegations worked but (1) it didn't stop her from trying again and again and (2) the agencies investigated each one.  Be aware.  Beware.

Very likely you will need a Custody Evaluation by a real expert, not just anyone she wants.  It can cost from $5K to $10K and take a few months.  The evaluator must be an expert that is well regarded for being perceptive and experienced.  You don't want just anyone who might be gullible and even default to mothers even when issues are apparent.  Needless to say, your life needs to be squeaky clean and though it will be an uphill struggle, in time the courts and professionals will figure out which parent is the problem.  They may not limit her parenting but you will gradually get more support from the professionals.

[momtara]

Don't agree to anything supervised.  It may look bad for the future.  If you're not a drug addict, mentally ill, abusive, etc., there's no reason for it.  (Of course, I'm not a lawyer.)

She's how far away from you?  Not 45 hours unless she's in Alaska.  

I think a court would grant you more than an hour if you stick to it, but start documenting everything, and record phone calls with her, in case they do start making up stuff.

[Pou]

I agree with others here, you should get more time and no supervised visits.  Also you should get the child's last name changed to yours if you are paying any money to raise her.  Sorry to hear that you are in your situation.  I wish you well and things work out in the end. 

[ForeverDad]

There might be some states where an unmarried mother is firmly in charge, GA comes to mind, but I believe most states do grant fathers at least reasonable if not minimal parenting time.  In my area the latest schedule for children under 3 years old was cut up in little but frequent pieces with the "primary parent" getting the lion's share of time, so the county or state in your case may have their own published guideline schedules.  Sadly, that may be all they are, guidelines and not that enforceable.  However, it is at least something to press for, not from ex but from the court.  The ex will not be reasonable nor cooperative, as you've already found out, but court will at least take most of the emotional posturing out of the equation.  In other words, what the court orders will almost certainly be far better than what ex and her mother are demanding.

In my area a typical alternate weekend parent gets alternate weekends and and evening or overnight in between.  For children under 3 years old it was alternate weekends and two evenings or overnights in between.  The new 3 year old schedule shortened the weekend but added a visit in between.

So the point is that courts recognize frequent visits by the other parent are important for children under 3 years old, more so than for older children.  Her demands to limit you to one hour supervised per week are downright outrageous and unbalanced.  Court will let her keep her perceptions,, it is not there to change her, it will only try to set the ground rules - and lots of them will still default to her favor.  She will demand 99%, you should ask for what you want, not what you hope to walk out with.  Why?  The judge could decide to "split the difference" so neither of you feel you've won.  If she demands 99% and you ask for 50%, you might walk out with a standard non-primary schedule (in addition to letting the court know you want to be as involved as possible with your child).  If she demands 99% and you timidly ask for 80% you might get just a little.

Here are some major items you need to press for in court, while stressing to the court that she has been obstructing, uncooperative and unreasonable.  And be prepared for her to make vile allegations and make you out to be Mr Evil Personified.  Understand too that likely no one there will stand up for you except you yourself.

• No supervision, however she may force the issue though and if so then try to get you BOTH ordered to take psych evals, not just you



• Looking to the future, you almost surely will need a Custody Evaluation, be sure it is done by a respected professional whose work is well respected, it is worth the extra money to get it done right and not by an inexperienced person who might have Mother-Is-Best preconceptions or who can be fooled, conned or manipulated



• Frequent and meaningful parenting time (none of this "one hour" posturing)



• Overnights (if she opposes overnight using excuses such as breastfeeding, that's fine, she can express her milk, refrigerate or freeze it and send it over during the exchange)



• Holiday and other events schedule



• As a firefighter, you probably have a non-standard schedule, courts usually accommodate the schedule of first responders and emergency workers, don't hesitate to seek a parenting schedule from the court that accommodates you



• If the exchanges present a risk of confrontations, heightened conflict or manipulations, have them in a public place or at the local police station



• From the very first day in court state that you want to be a very involved parent, do not let her paint you as a horrible person or a disinterested father who is only trying to avoid child support

I had a son, it was scary enough with all my ex's allegations, so scary it even (sadly) made me thankful we had a son and not a daughter.  Even so, she still alleged I had been perverted with our child in the worst ways possible, so be very, very careful.  I found out that there is nothing too low for a disordered person to allege during a custody struggle.

[livednlearned]

I found out that there is nothing too low for a disordered person to allege during a custody struggle.

Take this advice to heart. You become a target, and if one accusation doesn't work, there will be another, and another, and another.

Record and document everything.

[momtara]

Yeah, Foreverdad has good advice.  Don't ask for 25 percent and end up getting 11.  Ask for more than what you want.  My exH asked to be the primary custodian of the kids even though he had sent me emails saying he couldn't take care of them.  It was just for negotiation. 

[ynguns2]

Hi all and thank you very much. I had a good meeting with lawyer yesterday. She is off on her estimate of support and he says that her terms are ridiculous and not even a judge would agree to this crap. She wants me to have a letter written from my doctor ( therapist ) saying I am in sound mind and my lawyer said " absolutely not " and if the court asks for one I will request her to get a psychological eval also. She called ladt night and said " I will put your last name on our daughter if you give me sole custody "  I will not agree to this and I asked her " why? " does she feel this is in her best interest and what benefits will daughter get that she would not by us having " joint kegal decision making " ?  She says I live a state away and I need to be clooser to her and in case of emergencies. I live 38 miles away roughly 45 min and even though it is a different state it is still only 45 min apart. She then asks me " what did you give up? " I was shocked by this because what I have already given up is time spent with my daughter, I dont see her enough and this is by her terms and I missed her growing and her crying and smiling so when she says this one may think she has serious issues. I am not a therapist but she has something going on in her head and this is fact.

[momtara]

"She wants me to have a letter written from my doctor ( therapist ) saying I am in sound mind"

Sometimes we get so tired of dealing with our BPD exes that we are ready to agree to anything just for a moment of peace.  Your lawyer is a bit removed and has a better perspective.  You are starting this early so you will have plenty of time to see your daughter grow up and as long as you stick to your guns and negotiate right and set firm boundaries, you should get decent time.  45 minutes away is not at all far.  Don't unnecessarily antagonize your ex, but you don't have to give in to her whims.  What you do now will affect you for life, and your daughter.  Seems like you are on the right road.

[livednlearned]

Do you regularly ask for visitation with your D? It might be a good idea to start documenting those requests. BPD will say no, of course. But sometimes the documentation goes a long way, more so than just saying "I wanted to see my D but BPD mom would not allow it." Your L can go to the hearing and say, "My client asked one day/date, day/date, day/date and on and on, and BPD mom repeatedly refused to let the child's father spend time with her dad. She cannot share parenting time without the court being involved."

You want to document how difficult she is so that the judge gets it right away, and doesn't make you show evidence for a couple of years before you get what you think is best.

[ForeverDad]

You have to understand that your ex's perceptions are unrealistic and overly entitled.  Yes, as mother she feels she is in charge and to a large degree she is, but she is not a dictator nor judge.

However, we have found that trying to reason with someone who isn't listening is like peeing into the wind, nothing good comes of it.  Yes, you do need to try, if only to have documentation that you tried that can be shown to the court or evaluators as was already mentioned.  But don't expect a reasonable response or solution from her, her sense of total control is just too strong.  She believes her leverage as Mother outweighs everything else.

Many members here have had similar experiences.  My ex was extremely entitled as Mother.  It was her and our preschooler against me and the world.  However, the judge didn't care.  CPS did have to appear at the first hearing in family court and stated they had "no concerns" about me.  They were just asked about me due to her allegations so they said no one word about her.  (Words of wisdom: if every you are investigated or evaluated be sure to get you BOTH to submit to the same evaluation or investigation.  Otherwise the report will only say you're okay and not say anything about her actions and perceptions.)

After a year and a half in and out of court the preliminary Custody Evaluation report was discussed by the presiding judge and lawyers in chambers.  The CE had summarized, "Mother cannot share 'her' child but Father can... .Mother should lose her temporary custody immediately... .If Shared Parenting is tried and fails then Father should have custody."  Sadly, court did nothing but move on to the next step of the divorce process.  But at least I had that in writing.

Yes, document in emails or other methods your requests for every visit, extended visits, day visits as well as overnights. Don't be timid about asking for longer visits and overnights!  Yes, she will surely say No! but you will have proof for the court that you really do want to be an involved parent and she really is obstructing you.  Hey, if she felt comfortable enough to make a baby with you, nothing is more close and intimate than that, then why shouldn't you be able to parent your child?  Texts may also work, ask your lawyer about that.  Me?  I recorded everything since my ex, as far as I could determine, blocked my email address when we separated in 2005 and to this day 9 years later she never responds to my emails, so I can only conclude my emails are still blocked even after 9 years, even after I got custody back in 2011.  About a year ago - when she found out I was going to use her raging and demanding phone conversations in court - she started using texts.

Don't be surprised if when it gets to court that the judge may act nonchalant about it all.  That's what my court did.  The magistrate confirmed with her that she hadn't allowed any father-child contact for 3 months and then all he said was "I'll fix that." and set a typical father alternate weekend parenting schedule.  No consequences, no make-up time, no lectures, no wagging of his finger at her, nothing.  My son was 3 years old when we separated, yours is only a half year old so your judge might be even less inclined to lecture mom that there are two parents and not one, you won't know until you get in court.

I agree about not agreeing to ex's terms.  They are far too one-sided at this point and would only sabotage your future as father and involved parent.  You've proved your paternity, she's proved her obstruction, a court order has to be better than anything she would offer.  (Settlements and mediation early in the process seldom work because it is too soon, the ex is still far too entitled and you have to be later in the process where a combination of looming hearing or trial and ex's lawyer telling her the options aren't good might - might - allow a reasonable settlement.)

Remember, make your reasonable requests for visits - long day visits and even overnights are reasonable! - but don't waste time and effort trying to reason with her, you'll just go in endless circles and get nowhere with her.  Your requests are more for use in court than for her.  So write them politely and without emotional mud-slinging, as though the judge is standing behind you looking over your shoulder.  You need to prove to the court that you are entirely reasonable, polite, etc and that she is being unreasonably obstructive to your parenting.

[ynguns2]

Yeah I think she is the one with issues. I have never heard of a woman demanding so many things all at once and for such expensive items such as a $400,000 house and a expensive ring ( I give up trying to figure her wants and needs anymore ).  I am stuck with this witch now and trust me I am scared to death.

[whirlpoollife]

ynguns2 , I am glad to see you are posting  for help and advice. 

It is very overwhelming what you are going through but as you reread the advice, break it down into steps, then work on one at a time, that can help.   

If you can get a good therapist or counselor , they could help with sorting out the thoughts and putting them in a different perspective. And members here can do that for you too. 

If both your incomes are about equal, its possible that you might not owe her child  support.    You are not married so you don't owe her any spousal support or rings or houses ... .nothing. Try not give her a response to those wants. She keeps doing them because she knows it pushes you.

[ForeverDad]

Remember the FOG... .Fear, Obligation, Guilt.  She's using all of those tactics on you, to keep you confused and reeling from one demand to the next.  She's trying to keep you reactive rather than proactive.  Once you are more comfortable with the concept that you don't have to appease her every demand and that appeasing her could actually increase her sense of entitlement and enable/encourage even more demands, it will become easier.  Not easy, but easier.

[livednlearned]

The entitlement stuff is very narcissistic, a trait that tends to be pronounced in people with BPD. Looking back, I see it now like the Wizard of Oz, who seemed all-powerful, but turned out to be a pathetic, manipulative man. There's even a book, The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists.

That's part of the healing journey, recognizing that the entitlement and narcissism has no power if you don't give it to them. They are frightened, scared people who don't have a healthy way to cope with their fears.

Try to understand that as much as possible -- it will take down the stress a notch and help you think more clearly about your legal strategy. The more strength you feel, the more likely you will get a favorable outcome in court because you'll be able to take in the collective advice people share with you.

She wants you to feel afraid and inferior because that gives her an advantage. Don't give her that advantage if you can.

[ynguns2]

Hi to all and merry Christmas. I had a bad day today filled with mixed emotions on what I should really be feeling given the circumstances. I feel a lot of hatred towards my ex as for being such a rude person as to not let me have my daughter with us even for a few hours on this holiday but yet it was perfectly fine for her to take our daughter to her family's house and celebrate.

I am seriously hoping this crap ends and I have some kind of visitation plan in writing and I am also scared she is going to get sole custody meaning I will have no decision making with my child.

I am praying for the best but with her there is no such thing as " compromise " as she is definitely a control freak and also a woman who has it out for me.  Thanks all for letting me vent on here and once again listening to me.

[livednlearned]

Merry Christmas, ynguns2.

Spending the holiday without your child can be really painful. You can always celebrate with her at another time, and today you can think about the types of traditions you want to create for her. Chances are you will not spend every holiday together so maybe there are fun traditions you can come up with, like Christmas in July.

Also, it's highly unlikely that your ex will get sole custody. I've been my son's primary caregiver his entire life, my ex was a fall down drunk, and I live in a state with non-progressive laws where you would think the gender bias might be in full effect. Even with all that, I did not get full custody. At least, not until 3 years later after N/BPDx had a serious psychotic episode that led to a slow death spiral for him in court.

Not sure if this is happening to you, but I found that the holidays have a tendency to really get me down. I made it a rule to observe my feelings, but not let them dictate too much because often they passed after I was back in a normal routine.

[ynguns2]

Thanks Livednlearned and Merry Christmas. I am here at her house to see my daughter but as I knocked on door she sends message " waitin car I am feeding her now ". I wish people could see how rude this woman really is and I hope the courts do.  She acts like she is the only woman on earth who breast feeds a baby and she by far is not ready or ever was to do this on her own and if she would have just chilled I and her possibly could have done this as a team but look at us now.

I appreciate you and everyone else on here. I have become a stronger person now and will not make wrong decisions as I have in the past. ( hopefully ).

[ynguns2]

Hi everyone and Happy belated Christmas.  I had a good day yesterday as I got to see my daughter and it was for about 2 hours ( i'm surprised ).  I am stressing because all these fees sre adding up and then I got to factor in support coming up but I put a lot in my 457 plan and I can cut that back and it will be support payment.  I and My ex actually were very civil as I think when her mom is gone she is more rational and sees that I am not some deadbeat who never wants to see his daughter.  She keeps pushing this " sole custody issue " and I remained calm and said I disagree with this but we will let the courts decide and then she says well she is not giving My daughter my last name unless I agree and I said " its only a name " and then she says that I should actually pay more support because she lives in IL and I live in IN " I just laughed " do you really think the courts are going to say I should pay IL tax when I reside in IN? Give me a break !.

Her lawyer figured my support totally wrong also as she factored my contributions to my tax deferred 457 plan as that being minused off of gross pay ( she is wrong ) yes it is pre taxed but if anything I would pay more taxes which means less net income so that means less support.  

I am hoping they don't require me to pay half her insurance premium as it way too expensive and I put daughter on mine on her date of birth.  She said I denied that I was the father but this is not the case as I thought things were weird because I did not have my daughters last name was not that of mine.  She needs a court order she had said to take her off insurance and I said ask your lawyer to do this.

All these bills are piling up and for nothing too.  I might look into a home equity loan because I am getting low on my funds and I have a lot of equity in my house.  Is this a good idea? Has anyone taken a home equity loan or line of credit and which one would be best for my situation?  

[livednlearned]

All these bills are piling up and for nothing too.  I might look into a home equity loan because I am getting low on my funds and I have a lot of equity in my house.  Is this a good idea? Has anyone taken a home equity loan or line of credit and which one would be best for my situation?  

The bills do pile up -- it takes my breath away how much I spent in the last 4 years dealing with BPD and court. There are some things you can do to keep the court costs down. Like offer to copy all the court documents and send them yourself. Or tell your L you do not need paper copies, email only. I got to the point where I could've written my own motions and so forth, but I'm in grad school and struggled to find time to do everything. My L eventually let me carry a balance and she said if it takes me 20 years to pay it off, so be it. But we became friends and I think that arrangement is somewhat unusual.

I think it takes time to figure out how court works and maybe a little longer to figure out what you can do, and what your L needs to do. Some people here have gone pro se, and represent themselves. There is also pro tempe, an arrangement in which you do most of the work but the L consults. I'm not sure how common that is. But I wouldn't recommend doing that at the beginning of a custody battle because there is so much going on that only Ls with experience can help with. My ex represented himself and he got eaten alive -- and he's a lawyer. I think his narcissism and arrogance was his downfall because he assumed he knew how things worked. What he didn't seem to get is that each judge has pet peeves and patterns, and my L was excellent at working my case keeping that in mind.

[ForeverDad]

I recall my lawyer responding to yet another frustration I had with my then-stbEx's allegations and blocking, ":)o you want a $5K divorce or a $30K divorce?"  He was telling me he could litigate for every little problem she caused but financially it would be crushing.  So I had to prioritize what what issues had the greatest impact long term.  Still, it was nowhere close to being a $5K divorce.  He was my divorce and custody lawyer during my years in court from early 2006 to early 2014.  Hopefully the order is pretty close to as good as it can get and I won't need him again.

I was a client for so long that I got close to him and his staff too.  He prepared one bill last year, said it was $23K for preparation and 2 full days in court, showed it to ex's lawyer and then privately asked me, "How much of that can you pay?"  I really do believe he never imagined the case could keep going for 8 years.  I recall his initial estimate for a divorce with children was 7-9 months.  Turned out to be 23.5 months, just to get to the final decree!  What should have been the end was just the end of phase 1.  Our PD cases are nowhere near normal!