I need space

[vortex of confusion]

Over the holidays, it occurred to me that the thing I need more than anything else is space. I was talking to my brother at one point and we were talking about our parents and different stuff and it hit me. The thing that I want and need more than anything else is space. It is so difficult to get myself in a good head space when my husband is home all the time. I try to get out and do things but it is sometimes difficult because of the kids, etc.

I think the lack of space is what makes it difficult for me to stay grounded and move forward in a healthy and positive way. The last time that we were apart for more than a day or two was in Sept. of 2013 and that was only after my dad gave ME the money to leave for a week. I would like for my husband to leave for a week or two just so that we can both get some space and better perspective. He went to a reunion back in Sept. of 2014 but he found every excuse he could to cut his trip as short as possible.

I guess my question is how to approach the need for space.

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[MissyM]

I guess my question is how to approach the need for space.

Guess I would just say, cautiously.     I absolutely relate to this.  Having my dBPDh move out of the house gave me the space I needed to heal over the last year.  It sent him off into a really crazy head space in the beginning.  We certainly didn't do it the right way but I feel that there has been immense benefit in more personal space for both of us.

[vortex of confusion]

Guess I would just say, cautiously.     I absolutely relate to this.  Having my dBPDh move out of the house gave me the space I needed to heal over the last year.  It sent him off into a really crazy head space in the beginning.  We certainly didn't do it the right way but I feel that there has been immense benefit in more personal space for both of us.

Thanks MissyM!

When he went on his trip in Sept., he found every excuse he could to cut his trip short. I have tried to broach the subject of space but there is the excuse of money or how we will handle the kids or something. I feel like I have to have an answer or at least a solution to address all of his objections.

I wonder if anybody has been able to work through stuff without getting any kind of space. Is it possible to NOT do any kind of physical separation? If so, I wonder what some possible approaches are. I feel like I am hitting a brick wall these days.

[maxsterling]

Me too.  A few hours a week home alone is all I need.  If she is home and I am working on my own thing, she's checking up on me every 15 minutes, complaining she is lonely or bored.  If it is something important, I can convince her to give me space.  But she has a lineup of things to ask me the second I am done.  If it is me just wanting to work on a hobby, she will feel resentful that I am doing something without her.  When she was working, I would usually get an hour to myself in the morning.  Or when she was planning her classwork in the evening I could get some space.  But since she lost her job and painted most of her friends black, I've had a difficult time carving out some space.  

I agree with you - I really need some space in order to stay grounded.  When I go a week or two without any space of my own, I really feel closed in and irritable and can't devote my energy into the relationship.  Just a few hours a week is usually all I need to recharge and feel better.  :)oing something without her outside of the house helps, but what I really need is space in my house.  I've always been an independent person comfortable living by myself.  And while I enjoy her company, I still feel like I need some space of my own.  I went from living alone for years to having no space of my own overnight.  That wasn't good for me.

[eyvindr]

They sure are wired to enmesh and engulf us, aren't they? When those are two of the primary things that trigger their own fears. So confusing.

I say take the space you need. Know that it probably won't be supported, or it may be supported in theory, but when you actually act on it, the support goes away, and if you point that out, you may be told that what you were talking about before was something completely different. Or it might be fine. But you should not need anyone's permission to do whatever you decide to do. Ask yourself, am I being reasonable? Is this an unfair request? Will this hurt someone, including myself? If you're a sane, responsible, well-adjusted, trustworthy adult/partner/spouse, you deserve to be trusted and you are entitled to both make your own choices, and have your choices be respected.

What advice would you give a friend or, better, a child who described being in a  situation similar to your own?

[vortex of confusion]

Doing something without her outside of the house helps, but what I really need is space in my house.  I've always been an independent person comfortable livint from living alone for years to having no space of my own overnight.  That wasn't good for me.

I have never lived alone. I went straight from living with my parents to getting married and living with my husband. I think I was 22 when we got married. I am no stranger to living with other people. I guess that is why it seems so odd for me to want/need so much space. As a kid, I had more privacy and more space than I do now.

I think you are really on to something when you say that you need space in your house. I have my little corner of the couch where I have my lap top and that is about it. When he is at work, I feel like I can relax a little but when it is close to time for him to come home, I can feel myself tensing up. He had been off work for the last two weeks for the holidays so that exacerbated things. When he went back to work today, it was a big relief but it didn't last long enough for me to recharge. It seemed like it was just long enough for me to catch up on some housework and get a moments peace.

[vortex of confusion]

I say take the space you need. Know that it probably won't be supported, or it may be supported in theory, but when you actually act on it, the support goes away, and if you point that out, you may be told that what you were talking about before was something completely different. Or it might be fine. But you should not need anyone's permission to do whatever you decide to do. Ask yourself, am I being reasonable? Is this an unfair request? Will this hurt someone, including myself? If you're a sane, responsible, well-adjusted, trustworthy adult/partner/spouse, you deserve to be trusted and you are entitled to both make your own choices, and have your choices be respected.

This is good in theory but we do have 4 young kids together. All of my decisions to do anything must be made with them in mind. In 2013, I took off for a week and made him stay with the kids. That had to be coordinated so that he could take time off work to be with the kids. It isn't about permission. It is about working out the details on a practical level. I don't have any reliable child care so caring for the kids is something that my husband and I have to coordinate together. If he is resistant or unwilling to work with me, then the kids might get caught in the cross fire.

What advice would you give a friend or, better, a child who described being in a  situation similar to your own?

I would tell them to be creative. Find ways of getting alone time in small snippets. I would recommend that they think about the kids and see if they could find some kind of child care. I am curious as to why you asked what advice I would give a child? I am not a child and I have real responsibilities that don't allow me to run away whenever the mood strikes. I am a calm and rationale person that prefers to make well thought out decisions.

[MissyM]

I

would tell them to be creative. Find ways of getting alone time in small snippets. I would recommend that they think about the kids and see if they could find some kind of child care.

Sounds smart.  Do you think you could arrange one evening or weekend afternoon off?  I too need to recharge and constantly taking care of others on top of having a partner with BPD is exhausting.

[vortex of confusion]

Sounds smart.  Do you think you could arrange one evening or weekend afternoon off?  I too need to recharge and constantly taking care of others on top of having a partner with BPD is exhausting.

I try to do this periodically. On New Year's day, the kids slept late so I went and had lunch with my brother and his wife's family. I was gone several hours, came home, cooked New Year's Dinner and the kids hardly knew I was gone. I sneak off to the thrift store or the grocery store from time to time. Plus, I do have a part time job outside the house. I think the problem is with wanting space at home. If I am in the house with him, there is little to no chance of getting any space at all. When it is just me and the kids, it isn't as big of a deal. The kids and I give each other space yet still interact in meaningful ways. I have suggested him taking the kids out and doing something with them but the kids don't like going places with him. The only way for me to get space is for ME to leave the house. He will only leave to go to work or go to his meetings. For the most part, that is it. I have tried alternate sleeping schedules and a whole host of really creative stuff. Bottom line is that I want him out of the house for a while.

[MissyM]

The only way for me to get space is for ME to leave the house. He will only leave to go to work or go to his meetings.

Hmm, maybe start looking for some retreats for him to go on.  SA and SAA sponsor retreats all the time and they are a relatively low cost.  Or maybe he could join a men's step study or group for Saturday or Sunday morning, he could be gone for several hours every weekend.  Just a thought, it would be recovery oriented (so you wouldn't be worried about where he is) and you would get a break.  I know my husband spends one night a week that is 3 hours worth of meetings, I can count on him always being engaged that night.

[flowerpath]

I wish I had some good suggestions for getting your husband to go somewhere.     

When our children were little, every once in a while I’d go for a short ride after supper, and find someplace safe to park the car.  I’d sit there in my quiet car and just think – think about everything I needed to think about until I felt that I’d had enough time – and was tired of thinking!  My husband didn’t work on Saturdays or Sundays, so when I needed a larger amount of time to myself and I found him in a good mood, I’d talk with him about which day would work better for him for me to spend a few hours away from home.  I’d go to the library and window shopping at my favorite places.  True, while I was gone, he’d call, and then again and again the closer it came to supper time.  I think maybe he wouldn’t have called so much if we had agreed on a time frame and if I had prepared lunch and supper for everyone ahead of time instead of relying on him to do it.

I needed space at home too.  Sometimes I’d get the bedroom to myself if my husband fell asleep in front of the TV, but this is the way I got most of the time I had by myself:  After the kids went to sleep, I’d lock myself in the bathroom, turn on the exhaust fan, and read.  Not really a comfy spot, but it worked for me.  It wasn’t until much later that something he said about it made me realize that he never even knew that I was in there so I could have some space by myself! 

[vortex of confusion]

The only way for me to get space is for ME to leave the house. He will only leave to go to work or go to his meetings.

Hmm, maybe start looking for some retreats for him to go on.  SA and SAA sponsor retreats all the time and they are a relatively low cost.  Or maybe he could join a men's step study or group for Saturday or Sunday morning, he could be gone for several hours every weekend.  Just a thought, it would be recovery oriented (so you wouldn't be worried about where he is) and you would get a break.  I know my husband spends one night a week that is 3 hours worth of meetings, I can count on him always being engaged that night.

I will have to look into that. He is already a part of two different men's groups but has stopped attending meetings. My work schedule is his excuse for not being involved in the one group. His excuse for not being involved in the other group is that he doesn't like the direction they have taken.

I don't even care if what he is doing is recovery oriented. Earlier in our marriage, he complained about not having anybody to play music with so I went online and found a band for him to play with. That backfired on me because then he expected me to go to band practice with him. If I couldn't go or didn't want to go, he would tell the band that he couldn't make it even though he could.

And, the SAA group that he attends meets twice a week. He goes to the Weds. night meeting but won't go to the Saturday morning meeting because it is too long because it lasts an hour and a half rather than just an hour like it does on Weds. night. I think part of my problem is the fact that he hasn't attended his Weds. night meeting for several weeks because of Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve. His group met but he wouldn't go because of the holiday. I tried to encourage him to go but he wouldn't. And, he was off work for 2 weeks and I don't go back to work until the end of the month. I think things are a little bit better when I work because I get quiet time in the car and work is a very relaxing and peaceful environment.

[vortex of confusion]

I needed space at home too.  Sometimes I’d get the bedroom to myself if my husband fell asleep in front of the TV, but this is the way I got most of the time I had by myself:  After the kids went to sleep, I’d lock myself in the bathroom, turn on the exhaust fan, and read.  Not really a comfy spot, but it worked for me.  It wasn’t until much later that something he said about it made me realize that he never even knew that I was in there so I could have some space by myself! 

The bedroom is his. I sleep on the couch and only go in the bedroom to get clothes. If I were to go into the bedroom, he would likely follow. There are times at night when he refuses to go to bed because he says he wants to spend time with us. That would be okay IF he would actually pay attention to us and plug in. Instead, he falls asleep and gets grumpy when I wake him up and ask him to go to bed so I can get some time to myself. Last night, all 4 girls and the dog were on the couch with me. We were playing and talking and laughing and being silly. He went and laid down on the love seat and fell asleep. He made no attempt to get involved in our silliness. He sat over there and was just there and it annoyed the heck out of me.

I gave up on trying to take a bath or get quiet time in the bathroom. LOL. I have 4 daughters and we only have one bathroom. There are times when they are all asleep that I can sneak in some time for myself. When they are asleep, he is usually here and his presence gets under my skin.

[Crumbling]

Bottom line is that I want him out of the house for a while.

"for a while" can be defined in many ways... .

Are you meaning a '3hrs a week' scenario, or temporary separation?  Have you thought about the details of what would truly help you out of feeling this way? 

It is an awful feeling, needing space.  My situation now gives me lots of time home alone, and I am lapping it up like a thirsty dog!  But it hasn't always been this way.  I've felt this many many times.

I paid my BPDh's way to go visit distant family two summers ago, just so I could get some space.  I put a lot of money into it.  He was going to stay for two weeks, but came home after three days.  Said he felt guilty for having a good time and for leaving me behind.  I was so angry at him, I told him I was having a good time, BEFORE he pulled into the driveway and that I only paid his way to some distance between us!  Yet another bad investment/call on my part.  Not recommended. 

The only other option not mentioned yet is visualization.  I know it may only be a temporary solution, but it used to help me.  I would go to whatever floor of the house he wasn't on, and pretend like he wasn't there and ignore his presence.  Or close my eyes and begin to imagine walking on the beach, or thru the forest alone, somewhere serene and peaceful.  I can get so into my imaginary world, that I began to do it while he was even talking/harping directly at me.  At first he would get angry, but eventually he got that I was just disappearing into my 'happy place' because I needed space and time to process.

 

My only real advice is don't give up on finding a solution.  You have identified this as something you need, you've voiced it, and now it would be best to make a decision on it, or start trying things until you find what works. 

good intentions comin ur way,

c.

[sweetheart]

voc I don't believe focusing on your h to give you the space you want for yourself will work. Fundamentally from what you are saying he wants/needs to be around you so this might not be an ideal starting place for you. Also it's not something that bothers him so why would he alter his behaviour.

What I did last year, twice, was to search around for really inexpensive local holiday centres. You know the kind, rows of static caravans, indoor pool, jacuzzi, disco for the kids at night etc. I found one about 10 miles from our home took s6 with me for a long weekend, spent the days focusing on him, set a reasonable bedtime for him and then the evenings were mine. The resort was well equipped with play areas so that I could read my book with a coffee while my son threw himself around a soft play area. There was even more for older children. I did this in April and October and it was the best decision I ever made. I felt fab after, it cost me next to nothing and me and son are going back again in March. Always choose off peak!

Prior to this I was desperate for some space for me, but I think you have to get creative. For me space in the house is unlikely ( except when my h is in hospital ).

Do any of your friends need you to house sit while they are away. Or look after their animals instead of kennelling them and so on. Relatives that you could go and stay with for a weekend.

Directing your focus and energy toward your h 'doing something' probably wont work and you will end up feeling more resentful and more frustrated, needing more space.

I can hear that you want space for you in your own home. In a world free of the issues our SO bring to relationships they would be able to accommodate that request without issue. It is hard to accept that nothing is ever straight forward in the world of BPD.  

[vortex of confusion]

Are you meaning a '3hrs a week' scenario, or temporary separation?  Have you thought about the details of what would truly help you out of feeling this way? 

Thank you for asking this question. I don't feel like the 3 hrs a week scenario is enough in all honesty. A temporary separation would be nice but I don't see that happening for a whole host of reasons. He was gone for around 3 days back in September but that didn't feel like enough either. It felt like the kids and I were just starting to relax into things when it was time for him to come home. When I went away for a week back in 2013, it opened my eyes to soo many things and that is what started me on this whole quest to figure out how to make things better and get off what feels like a hamster wheel.

I paid my BPDh's way to go visit distant family two summers ago, just so I could get some space.  I put a lot of money into it.  He was going to stay for two weeks, but came home after three days.  Said he felt guilty for having a good time and for leaving me behind.  I was so angry at him, I told him I was having a good time, BEFORE he pulled into the driveway and that I only paid his way to some distance between us!  Yet another bad investment/call on my part.  Not recommended. 

Money is a big factor for us being able to do things. When he went to his reunion in Sept. of 2014, his mother paid for the trip and he could have been up there for close to a week without any trouble. But, he wouldn't do it. He cut his trip as short as possible. He used my work and the kids as an excuse to get home as soon as possible. I would have found a way to work things out but it felt like he didn't trust me enough to figure things out for myself. When I left for a week, I told him that I trusted him to figure stuff out on his own. Yes, there were lots of texts and he and the kids had a lot of rough patches but I was certain that they could figure things out. I am the full time parent. I am the one that arranges child care on the rare occasions when I need it yet he seems to think that I can't do anything without him. The truth is that things tend to go a lot smoother when he isn't here.

The only other option not mentioned yet is visualization.  I know it may only be a temporary solution, but it used to help me.  I would go to whatever floor of the house he wasn't on, and pretend like he wasn't there and ignore his presence.  Or close my eyes and begin to imagine walking on the beach, or thru the forest alone, somewhere serene and peaceful.  I can get so into my imaginary world, that I began to do it while he was even talking/harping directly at me.  At first he would get angry, but eventually he got that I was just disappearing into my 'happy place' because I needed space and time to process.

Visualization is great. I have spent a whole lot of time curled up on my couch with my eyes closed visualizing being somewhere else. When he is talking, a lot of times, I will sing random songs in my head. The visualizing and finding other ways to escape (this site, FB, etc.) are great temporary solutions. I have managed to make it this far by finding ways to live in my own little world and tell myself that this won't last forever. I do a lot of self talk and I do a lot of focusing on the positives. I feel like I have reached a point where I want and need something real. I tired of living day to day with no forward progress/momentum.

 

My only real advice is don't give up on finding a solution.  You have identified this as something you need, you've voiced it, and now it would be best to make a decision on it, or start trying things until you find what works. 

Thank you! I am going to try to suggest that he take a vacation for a week once our income tax refund comes back. I think it would be worth while for him to get a week or two away from us. He is very resistant to the idea as he says that he is afraid that if he is alone he will act out. He doesn't think he can manage his addiction if he is on his own. The kids and I seem to be a good distraction/reminder for him to not act out.

[Cat Familiar]

I paid my BPDh's way to go visit distant family two summers ago, just so I could get some space.  I put a lot of money into it.  He was going to stay for two weeks, but came home after three days.  Said he felt guilty for having a good time and for leaving me behind.  I was so angry at him, I told him I was having a good time, BEFORE he pulled into the driveway and that I only paid his way to some distance between us!  Yet another bad investment/call on my part.  Not recommended.  

Money is a big factor for us being able to do things. When he went to his reunion in Sept. of 2014, his mother paid for the trip and he could have been up there for close to a week without any trouble. But, he wouldn't do it. He cut his trip as short as possible. He used my work and the kids as an excuse to get home as soon as possible.

Vortex, I'm concerned that if you spend the tax return sending him on a vacation, that he will return before the time is up. My husband does this too. So many times he has planned to go out of town on a short trip to visit old friends, do a Buddhist retreat, whatever, he will come back early. I'm always so disappointed because, like you, I treasure my alone time.

I even get annoyed when I'm in the other room, on the computer, that he has to come in and check out what I'm doing.    Fortunately I always have a lot of windows open, but sometimes I'm almost not fast enough.

[vortex of confusion]

Vortex, I'm concerned that if you spend the tax return sending him on a vacation, that he will return before the time is up. My husband does this too. So many times he has planned to go out of town on a short trip to visit old friends, do a Buddhist retreat, whatever, he will come back early. I'm always so disappointed because, like you, I treasure my alone time.

That is my concern too. I am thinking that he could find one of those extended stay hotels here in town so that he could still go to work and stuff. I am trying to think very practically as well as creatively. I have to figure out something that he will buy into. He seems to be warming up to the idea of staying around town just not in the house with me and the kids. He even brought up being afraid of being too far away from home in case there was a medical emergency. That one has me scratching my head a bit because I am usually the one that deals with any and all emergencies. In all honesty, I think he is afraid that if he is gone too long we will enjoy it so much that we won't want him to come home.

I even get annoyed when I'm in the other room, on the computer, that he has to come in and check out what I'm doing.    Fortunately I always have a lot of windows open, but sometimes I'm almost not fast enough.

I can understand that completely. I have a tendency to go sit on the porch and smoke when I need space. He usually follows me out there so we can talk. It is funny because my kids and I check in with each other all the time. My oldest will come sit next to me on the couch and ask what I am doing and we will talk and joke and then she will get up and go back to whatever she was doing. No muss, no fuss. With my husband it is so totally different. He has this air about him that drives me crazy. When he checks in with me, he is, um, I don't even know how to describe. He acts guilty or something like he is trying to catch me doing something. And it feels like there is a push/pull thing going on but it is so subtle that I have only recently been able to put my finger on it.

[Grey Kitty]

I've generally been on the other side of this one--historically my wife wanted more time apart than I did. I think it was party because I was so good at 'checking out' in place that I kinda got that for myself. And as of now I've got time alone again, after a crazy holiday season with first her dad, then my parents, plus a bit of relationship drama. This time I'm relieved to be alone.

One thing my wife and I did when we were at a point where neither of us normally worked away from home was that we made an enforced schedule: We both would leave for 4-6 hours on our own once a week. The deal was we both stayed out that long, and nobody got to say what the other person was supposed to do during this separate time. So we each got an afternoon alone at home and an afternoon away.

We both kinda resisted it, but in the end we both found we liked it. Kids do change the equation, so your mileage may vary.

Vortex, I'm concerned that if you spend the tax return sending him on a vacation, that he will return before the time is up.

I agree... .If you try to 'plan' something like this for him, be very clear: YOU WANT A VACATION APART FROM HIM. If he comes back early, you will be driving out of town for the duration, leaving him with the kids so fast that his head will still be spinning, and your cellphone will be off until you come back.

Actually this brings up a point--trying to "entice him to leave" is manipulation. Explaining to him that you NEED two weeks apart from him and you would like him to have a nice vacation is better.

[Cat Familiar]

I have a tendency to go sit on the porch and smoke when I need space. He usually follows me out there so we can talk. It is funny because my kids and I check in with each other all the time. My oldest will come sit next to me on the couch and ask what I am doing and we will talk and joke and then she will get up and go back to whatever she was doing. No muss, no fuss. With my husband it is so totally different. He has this air about him that drives me crazy. When he checks in with me, he is, um, I don't even know how to describe. He acts guilty or something like he is trying to catch me doing something. And it feels like there is a push/pull thing going on but it is so subtle that I have only recently been able to put my finger on it.

I know exactly what you mean--that "air about him that drives me crazy." I've never thought about it just that way, but I feel so invaded when he shows up. I treasure my early morning hours and when he gets up, there's this intensity in the air. He's either revved up about something, bummed out, or I'm not sure what, but after I see him, poof goes my nice relaxing morning.

[vortex of confusion]

One thing my wife and I did when we were at a point where neither of us normally worked away from home was that we made an enforced schedule: We both would leave for 4-6 hours on our own once a week. The deal was we both stayed out that long, and nobody got to say what the other person was supposed to do during this separate time. So we each got an afternoon alone at home and an afternoon away.

I don't feel like that will be enough. I am too wound up inside and need to get unwound. Not only is it me, but it is the kids as well. The last time when he was gone for a couple of days, neither the kids nor I were ready for him to be home.

I agree... .If you try to 'plan' something like this for him, be very clear: YOU WANT A VACATION APART FROM HIM. If he comes back early, you will be driving out of town for the duration, leaving him with the kids so fast that his head will still be spinning, and your cellphone will be off until you come back.

I have no intentions of planning anything like that for him. My "plan" is to sell him on the idea and get him to figure out what he wants to do during that time. I am not trying to sell it as a vacation either. I am trying to sell it as the kids and I need some time away from him. I am trying to be very honest with him and tread very lightly. I don't want him to feel rejected or abandoned and dysregulate but I do want him to know that him not being willing to work with me on this could make things worse. We had a decent conversation about how we are both afraid of messing up. On his side, he says that he feels like he is walking on eggshells because he is trying really hard not to explode or go off on the kids or I over little stuff. He does have some level of awareness. On my side of things, I am working hard not to JADE or get sucked in when he starts being ridiculous. I think it would do both of us some good. He will have the space to exist without having to be so mindful of me and the kids and I won't be looking at the clock and getting tense when it is time for him to come home from work.

Actually this brings up a point--trying to "entice him to leave" is manipulation. Explaining to him that you NEED two weeks apart from him and you would like him to have a nice vacation is better.

In my mind, explaining that I need time apart is part of enticing him to leave. I can speak my truth and be open and honest while enticing him. I know how he operates and I know that he is way more willing to go along with my suggestions if I spend time building it up and selling him on it. I am not going to lie or twist things and I will make sure that this is not some kind of nicey nice crap on my part. I have a real need for space. He can take a couple of weeks away or run the risk of damaging things even worse than they already are. I am not going to make him do it tomorrow but I want to put it on the table and talk about it and work towards it so that I have something to look forward to. I have tried to talk to him about a moving out kind of separation for 6 months or so but that is too much. He is not open to that at all. I am trying to keep myself from getting to a point where I wake up one day and have had enough and kick him out. I don't think I would ever do that but I can't say for sure as I have done a lot of things in this relationship that I didn't think I was capable of doing.

[eyvindr]

I'm confused by this approach. Maybe I'm misreading your posts, vortex. What I hear you saying is that you want time away from your husband, and you feel that your quality of life and that of your children improves when your husband isn't around. You appear to be investing quite a bit of energy into finding ways to separate yourself from him. Again, I may be getting the wrong impression. Correct me if I'm wrong.

With all due respect, have you considered leaving him? What does he bring to your relationship?

[vortex of confusion]

I'm confused by this approach. Maybe I'm misreading your posts, vortex. What I hear you saying is that you want time away from your husband, and you feel that your quality of life and that of your children improves when your husband isn't around. You appear to be investing quite a bit of energy into finding ways to separate yourself from him. Again, I may be getting the wrong impression. Correct me if I'm wrong.

With all due respect, have you considered leaving him? What does he bring to your relationship?

I have absolutely considered leaving him. I post on the leaving and the undecided boards quite a bit. I am working on an exit strategy but I don't want to use it unless or until all other avenues have been exhausted. I want to leave but I don't. The bottom line is that I have 4 young kids and I have been a stay at home/work at home mom for the last 7 or 8 years. I have to rebuild myself professionally. I am working on that. There are some debt and finance issues that need to be resolved and addressed. We have been married for 16.5 years so there is a lot of little disentanglement issues that need to be resolved. We are really enmeshed and I am working on changing that as well.

I am not in a position where I can up and leave with the kids. I posted this on the staying board because my goal is to find a way to keep things as peaceful as possible while we still live in the same house.

In response to the question, "What does he bring to the relationship?" I don't what he brings to the relationship any more. He does help a little around the house and with the kids but I would say that I do the lion's share of it all. He changes the cat boxes and gets the oil changed in our vehicles. Aside from the very practical and very mundane stuff, I can't think of anything that he brings to the table.

He brings his addiction and his hyperfocus on recovery to the relationship now. And he brings his continual need for reassurance, praise, caretaking, etc. I am trying to think of positive things that he brings to the relationship and I can't think of anything and that bothers me. Maybe if there was a bit of space, I could more easily identify positive things. I am trying not to paint him black. He is a good person but he drops the ball when it comes to being a husband and father. It is difficult to find the positives when I feel smothered.

[eyvindr]

Thank you for helping me understand, vortex. I can tell from your posts that you are trying very hard to do the best you can for your family. In particular, despite your frustration with your husband and marriage, I don't see you resorting to extremely negative comments or ugliness towards your husband (name-calling, etc.). I can tell that you care for him and truly wish things were different. And I admire your focus on providing stability for your kids. I'm sure you've experienced a lot of disappointment, and you're handling it responsibly and compassionately, I think. Thank you for sharing.

[Grey Kitty]

Your approach with being direct that you and the kids need a block of a couple weeks with him away sounds right. This is something you have to negotiate with him--it requires his willing compliance.

Good luck.

And consider getting some smaller regular times with him away on the schedule too if you can. It sounds like that is a lower priority.

[Crumbling]

Would it help ease his unease about the break if your plans included time with him away, and then time with just you and him?  Present it as a package deal.  Do you do a 'date night' without the kids around?  Just being creative   

Maybe it would give him some ease to know you are not doing it because he's the evil villain, but to make your r/s better and stronger?  If that is your motive   

GK's right, just remember he needs to be a willing participant.

good vibes comin ur way,

c.

[vortex of confusion]

Would it help ease his unease about the break if your plans included time with him away, and then time with just you and him?  Present it as a package deal.  Do you do a 'date night' without the kids around?  Just being creative   

That would work IF he seemed to actually enjoy spending time with me. We don't do date night. Here is why. First, lack of childcare is a big excuse. Second, I can count the number of times in the last year that I have gotten a babysitter (3) and every time we had a horrible time. The most memorable was our anniversary. We spent the whole time bickering and arguing. He didn't plan the date and he acted like he would rather be anywhere but with me. I found ways around the child care issue by letting the kids get off schedule. Let them be asleep so he and I could have some time to our selves. He plays his game or goes to sleep. And that is part of the problem. He wants quantity not quality. He wants me to be with me in a way that feels like parent/child rather than husband/wife.

I bet I could sell him on the whole idea if I encouraged him to take a 3 or 4 hour drive to the place where one of his online female friends live. He actually told me that if he took some time away that he would likely drive to see her. And if he goes to see her, I am pretty sure that they would be physical. If I tried to put myself in the package, I doubt that would interest him.

I have done the whole let the kids sleep late some days when he is at work so I could get some space.

Maybe it would give him some ease to know you are not doing it because he's the evil villain, but to make your r/s better and stronger?  If that is your motive   

I tell him all the time that I don't think he is a bad person. I try to tell him that he and I have gotten ourselves into a really bad dynamic and need to find a way to change it. He says that he had a real wake up call when I was gone for a week back in 2013. I told him that I want that same opportunity. I don't know if space would make the r/s better and stronger or not. I am at a point where I don't know if there is even anything to build on. I am not going to blow smoke up his butt about the r/s. He has told me repeatedly that he can't be bothered with our relationship. His main focus is on recovery. His other focus is on trying to have a better relationship with the kids. I mentioned that maybe the kids would appreciate him more if they got a taste of what it is like without him around.

I should add that he has recently hinted that he wants to work on the r/s but his idea of working on it seems a bit odd to me. He says that if he focuses on himself and his recovery that everything else will fall into place. I am hearing (perhaps inaccurately) that he doesn't need to worry about us. He is going to do his thing and have faith and be patient, blah, blah, blah. We talk about our relationship all the time but little if anything is actually done.

[Crumbling]

Gosh, V, it sounds like there's a lot more distance between you two than I realized.  That's so sad.   :'(   

     

That's a hug for you, and one for each of the kids!  Make sure you share, now! 

Then, it sounds like you are so doing the right thing by focusing on yourself and your needs.

Do you have a clear boundary around the topic of him stepping out of the marriage for the physical stuff?  Does he?  It's a game changer for both me and my guy.  It works for us.

[vortex of confusion]

Do you have a clear boundary around the topic of him stepping out of the marriage for the physical stuff?  Does he?  It's a game changer for both me and my guy.  It works for us.

No, I do not have a clear boundary around him stepping out of the marriage for physical stuff. There is a back story to it. I don't feel like I can tell him in good conscience that he can't step outside the marriage as I have a lover and he knows about it. We experimented with an open relationship for a while. That topic is sort of up in the air with us. He is a sex addict so that tends to complicate things. I can put up a boundary about him not telling me about it. I am not sure about that though because I want to know if he is with somebody else because of disease, etc.

Yes, there is a huge gulf between us. I tried to bring up the need for space with him again today. We both agree that it is something that is necessary. We are both calling it what it is. A break where we can both think and clear our heads and make a better decision about how to move forward. It did bring up another issue which I am trying to figure out how to broach. Once I figure out how to phrase it, I will probably post it.

I am wanting to set some kind of goal around our relationship. I have my own individual goals around my own self improvement. What I want is to set some kind of timeline where we can both agree to revisit certain topics. For example, if we could agree to both of us being done, then we could proceed from there and figure out what we want to do about it. Since we have 4 kids, I am open to non-traditional approaches IF that is something that we can both agree to. Is it even possible to try to set some kind of relationship goal with a person with BPD traits?

[Crumbling]

I don't know if you can set a relationship goal like that with a pwBPD.  I wish I knew what to say.

I do know this, when my BPDh uses the skills he was taught through his T, I can tell.  It makes a mountain of difference!  I just want to hug him everytime I recognize him doing it.  Lots of times now, he'll say something stupid, pause a minute, then say "never mind that, that was a stupid thing to say."  I hear that and I actually feel my my shoulders relax.  Those are the times we can talk about things.  It helps me see the man behind the disease, and remind me he is doing what he can.  If your guy is willing to focus on learning stuff like that, it would be worth it for your r/s, he's right about that much. 

Hope someone else has some constructive advice for ya, luv.