'I told you so' - why is that so annoying?

[Trog]

It's been 7 months since I split with my ex, I'm at a point where I know it's dead and buried, however it still really narks me when certain friends say 'she never loved you'. I know that it is true, and if someone very close to or a relative says it, I can handle it, but with people I'm not that close to who know the story say that, I am very angry, and it also feels like they are saying 'you are not loveable', I get the feeling she is taking glee in having been right. My life and dreams were in tatters, why do people feel the need to go 'well, I was right' and why do I wanna pop them one, when tbh, it is true?

[hergestridge]

Why are people you are not that close to saying something like that to you? It doesn't sound right to me.

Personally, if I discuss my failed relationship, I do it with a selected few people.

One thing that I find very frustrating is when people come up with general wisdoms about relatioships in response to me mentioning ending a 20 year rs. Statements like "People grow apart" and "The most important thing is that you can still be friends after you split up" that kan be kind of inappropriate/inadequate when you have split up with someone with a mental illness (and especially BPD).

[Trog]

It's a friend who I have become close to only recently as circumstances threw us together, and as I was such a mess and we were at such close quarters I couldn't not show that. She is quite competitive with me so I assume that's why she acts that way. She's also just one of those 'bull in a china shop' types who can be insulting without really knowing it. Luckily we are no longer at close quarters and won't be again! (Not a partner)

[Blimblam]

Those are defence mechanisms to prevent them from empathathizing with you.  It is a way of providing conditional sympathy by validating their narrative of reality at the expense if yours. Basically it's a form of takin your psychic energy through a stupid game where take the role of critical parent to your vulnerable child.

[hergestridge]

Well, it signals a bit of arrogance to say things like that to someone you don't know well. She should not have done it. It's a very strong statement and she should have understod that it could cause hurt. It is not odd that you felt the way you did.

[HappyNihilist]

It's been 7 months since I split with my ex, I'm at a point where I know it's dead and buried, however it still really narks me when certain friends say 'she never loved you'. I know that it is true, and if someone very close to or a relative says it, I can handle it, but with people I'm not that close to who know the story say that, I am very angry, and it also feels like they are saying 'you are not loveable', I get the feeling she is taking glee in having been right. My life and dreams were in tatters, why do people feel the need to go 'well, I was right' and why do I wanna pop them one, when tbh, it is true?

I don't blame you for feeling like that! It's hard to hear "I told you so" (especially when, deep down, you told yourself so, too) -- but there's really no need for anyone to keep saying it. True friends don't take pleasure in their friend's pain, even if it somehow "proved them right."

I'm reminded of this quote from The Dark Knight--

Bruce: Well, we all know how much you love to say "I told you so."

Alfred: On that day, Master Wayne, even I won't want to. (pause) Probably.

But, it could also be that those friends are trying to be helpful, albeit in a very misguided way -- what in particular makes you feel like they are taking glee in this?

I completely understand what you mean about hearing "you are not lovable" when someone says your ex never loved you. I struggle with feelings of being unlovable, especially after the chaotic storm of a BPD r/s, and it makes me sensitive to hearing reinforcements of this internalized negative belief. In other words, I often assign that meaning when it's not what was intended by the speaker at all. Even if some of your friends are taking a perverse glee in being right at your expense, I doubt they mean to imply that you are not lovable.

This doesn't mean it's in any way wrong for you to feel invalidated, irritated, angry, etc. To be perfectly honest, I'm sure I would eventually go off on a friend who was behaving that way.  It is invalidating, and it's not helpful. Have you told her that what she says is hurtful to you?

If it helps any, I certainly don't think your exgf never loved you. Love triggers the fears of abandonment/engulfment for a pwBPD. The very fact that your r/s triggered these things in her shows that she felt deeply for you. No, it's not healthy, mature, adult love -- it's not the love that we need from an adult partner. But they are incapable of giving this because they are not healthy mature adults emotionally.

You are lovable. You are a human who is worthy of love. The great irony is that, it was your very lovableness that triggered your exgf's unresolved core fears.

Take care of yourself.   And in the wise words of General Vinegar Joe Stilwell, ":)on't let the asss grind you down."  

[Trog]

It's been 7 months since I split with my ex, I'm at a point where I know it's dead and buried, however it still really narks me when certain friends say 'she never loved you'. I know that it is true, and if someone very close to or a relative says it, I can handle it, but with people I'm not that close to who know the story say that, I am very angry, and it also feels like they are saying 'you are not loveable', I get the feeling she is taking glee in having been right. My life and dreams were in tatters, why do people feel the need to go 'well, I was right' and why do I wanna pop them one, when tbh, it is true?

I don't blame you for feeling like that! It's hard to hear "I told you so" (especially when, deep down, you told yourself so, too) -- but there's really no need for anyone to keep saying it. True friends don't take pleasure in their friend's pain, even if it somehow "proved them right."

I'm reminded of this quote from The Dark Knight--

Bruce: Well, we all know how much you love to say "I told you so."

Alfred: On that day, Master Wayne, even I won't want to. (pause) Probably.

But, it could also be that those friends are trying to be helpful, albeit in a very misguided way -- what in particular makes you feel like they are taking glee in this?

I completely understand what you mean about hearing "you are not lovable" when someone says your ex never loved you. I struggle with feelings of being unlovable, especially after the chaotic storm of a BPD r/s, and it makes me sensitive to hearing reinforcements of this internalized negative belief. In other words, I often assign that meaning when it's not what was intended by the speaker at all. Even if some of your friends are taking a perverse glee in being right at your expense, I doubt they mean to imply that you are not lovable.

This doesn't mean it's in any way wrong for you to feel invalidated, irritated, angry, etc. To be perfectly honest, I'm sure I would eventually go off on a friend who was behaving that way.  It is invalidating, and it's not helpful. Have you told her that what she says is hurtful to you?

If it helps any, I certainly don't think your exgf never loved you. Love triggers the fears of abandonment/engulfment for a pwBPD. The very fact that your r/s triggered these things in her shows that she felt deeply for you. No, it's not healthy, mature, adult love -- it's not the love that we need from an adult partner. But they are incapable of giving this because they are not healthy mature adults emotionally.

You are lovable. You are a human who is worthy of love. The great irony is that, it was your very lovableness that triggered your exgf's unresolved core fears.

Take care of yourself.   And in the wise words of General Vinegar Joe Stilwell, ":)on't let the asss grind you down."  

Thank you so much for your kind response. I'm not feeling very loveable tonight. I moved to another country to get away from my ex-wife, a foreign one where I don't speak the language. I have a good job, and a good family who do love me but I do feel lonely and, after all this BPD stuff, I can't imagine ever trusting anyone again. I used to, and it's part of the problem, bounce from woman to woman and never had any problem attracting mates but now I just have no interest and when someone shows me interest I equate love with pain, so I sidestep them and am simply not interested or attracted. I hope this doesn't go on for much longer, I love having a partner, I really think I have a lot to give, I worry she has ruined me.

Maybe it's cos it's 1am here, I get more miserable late at night, I'm quite chipper during the day!

I think the friend takes glee cos she is one of those competitive friends who you are friends with cos you like a lot of the same stuff, but she competes with me, I think she's jealous of the things I do have (which doesn't feel like much), she's broke, I'm not, I'm 10 years younger, etc

[Whitebread]

Wow, this hits home... .I heard from a cousin I'm not close to just a few days ago.  Apparently she heard via the family holiday phonecalls that I left my ex. 

She met him once, briefly at my father's funeral last year. 

So she sent me an email telling me how glad she was I'd left him, that she had a 'bad feeling' about him and how proud she was of me.  What?

This is a person that I'd not seen or talked to easily in 20 yrs! 

I was so conflicted about this... .I'm very private so it felt like an intrusion of my privacy, similarly I cringe at the thought that I'm a topic of family gossip, and I had a fleeting feeling of wanting to actually defend him, which really really pissed me off!  Ugh! 

I can't really say what her motive was, I don't know her well enough to say it was meant as a kind gesture, or a snarky kind of thing.  I haven't responded to her hoping I'd figure it out.

[cosmonaut]

Maybe because it's not true?  How can they possibly know if she loved you or not?  They are speculating.  BPD relationships are complicated and messy.  They defy easy answers and analysis.  Your ex may very well have loved you in her own way in the best capacity that she could.  You are in a far better position to determine that than any of your friends.  If your gut says that she loved you, then I would trust in that.  If, on the other hand, you feel that she didn't love you, then I would trust in that too.

Your friends probably have good intentions, but it isn't helpful for them to say such things either way.  Either they are saying things that are untrue or they are kicking you while you are down.  The best thing that they can be doing is to empathize with you and understand that you are (still) reeling and hurting terribly.  Healing will take time.  Hang in there, my man.

Edit:  I'd also add that I have been in your exact shoes and it hurt terribly to hear others slander and disparage my relationship.  I even had a bitter fight with my therapist over this issue and she eventually admitted that she was wrong and she was out of line.  She admitted that she would never want anyone to ever speak of her relationship with her husband in such a manner no matter their problems.  You have every right to feel the way that you feel.

[hergestridge]

Maybe because it's not true?  How can they possibly know if she loved you or not?  They are speculating.  BPD relationships are complicated and messy.  They defy easy answers and analysis. 

Why do they defy easy answers and analysis? Isn't it an indisputed fact that pwBPD have trouble with reciprocity? It is a relational disorder. Emotionally they are like kids and kids don't love in the grown up sense.

Hearing it from the wrong person is hurtful, but at the end of the day I think we must value the truth over someone's feelings or integrity.

[Blimblam]

Maybe because it's not true?  How can they possibly know if she loved you or not?  They are speculating.  BPD relationships are complicated and messy.  They defy easy answers and analysis. 

Why do they defy easy answers and analysis? Isn't it an indisputed fact that pwBPD have trouble with reciprocity? It is a relational disorder. Emotionally they are like kids and kids don't love in the grown up sense.

Hearing it from the wrong person is hurtful, but at the end of the day I think we must value the truth over someone's feelings or integrity.

Herge  it really depends what phase of te rs one is in with them. As far as reciprocity. My ex in the beginning stages was probably the most giving person I ever met.  As time went on she continued to be giving with almost no expectation of reciprocity on my behalf.  After i was being split that all began to change. In fact as soon as i started providing she felt engulfed.

[Blimblam]

Maybe because it's not true?  How can they possibly know if she loved you or not?  They are speculating.  BPD relationships are complicated and messy.  They defy easy answers and analysis.  Your ex may very well have loved you in her own way in the best capacity that she could.  You are in a far better position to determine that than any of your friends.  If your gut says that she loved you, then I would trust in that.  If, on the other hand, you feel that she didn't love you, then I would trust in that too.

Your friends probably have good intentions, but it isn't helpful for them to say such things either way.  Either they are saying things that are untrue or they are kicking you while you are down.  The best thing that they can be doing is to empathize with you and understand that you are (still) reeling and hurting terribly.  Healing will take time.  Hang in there, my man.

Edit:  I'd also add that I have been in your exact shoes and it hurt terribly to hear others slander and disparage my relationship.  I even had a bitter fight with my therapist over this issue and she eventually admitted that she was wrong and she was out of line.  She admitted that she would never want anyone to ever speak of her relationship with her husband in such a manner no matter their problems.  You have every right to feel the way that you feel.

+1000

People may have good intentions but often deliver it in a dysfunctional way thinking that's how you help people.  It's often a form of transference and projection hole some of their own parental schema modes have been triggered. 

I had one friend tell me I must know nothing about love and that I'm an idiot and it's all my fault and he has no sympathy for me. In fact that's pretty much what everyone I knew told me in a critical tone of contempt and superiority. 

What I think happens is often people recognize their own vulnerability in you and project their own situation they can relate to into you then become impatient and critical of this part of themselves through you. 

What I don't think people realize is how oppresive that is to invalidate another's reality based on their own personal beliefs and ideals or that is what they are doing as they do it.

[hergestridge]

Maybe because it's not true?  How can they possibly know if she loved you or not?  They are speculating.  BPD relationships are complicated and messy.  They defy easy answers and analysis.  

Why do they defy easy answers and analysis? Isn't it an indisputed fact that pwBPD have trouble with reciprocity? It is a relational disorder. Emotionally they are like kids and kids don't love in the grown up sense.

Hearing it from the wrong person is hurtful, but at the end of the day I think we must value the truth over someone's feelings or integrity.

Herge  it really depends what phase of te rs one is in with them. As far as reciprocity. My ex in the beginning stages was probably the most giving person I ever met.  As time went on she continued to be giving with almost no expectation of reciprocity on my behalf.  After i was being split that all began to change. In fact as soon as i started providing she felt engulfed.

Reciprocity means responding to posivtive actions with positive actions. It's about mutuality. There can be a lot of giving, caring etc going on, but it's a one man show so it never becomes the real deal. That's one of the things DBT amounts to. Mentalization - imagining what it's like for others. That's a first time for a person with BPD.

If you have those kind of empathetic abilities to begin with, then BPD does not sound the correct diagnosis to me.

In a way it can become a technicallity to discuss whether a person "really loved" someone. It's a feeling after all. It's one thing what a psychologist would define as an adult remantic relationship and then "romantic feelings" on the other hand. But the latter is of a more temporary nature.

[Blimblam]

Maybe because it's not true?  How can they possibly know if she loved you or not?  They are speculating.  BPD relationships are complicated and messy.  They defy easy answers and analysis.  

Why do they defy easy answers and analysis? Isn't it an indisputed fact that pwBPD have trouble with reciprocity? It is a relational disorder. Emotionally they are like kids and kids don't love in the grown up sense.

Hearing it from the wrong person is hurtful, but at the end of the day I think we must value the truth over someone's feelings or integrity.

Herge  it really depends what phase of te rs one is in with them. As far as reciprocity. My ex in the beginning stages was probably the most giving person I ever met.  As time went on she continued to be giving with almost no expectation of reciprocity on my behalf.  After i was being split that all began to change. In fact as soon as i started providing she felt engulfed.

Reciprocity means responding to posivtive actions with positive actions. It's about mutuality. There can be a lot of giving, caring etc going on, but it's a one man show so it never becomes the real deal. That's one of the things DBT amounts to. Mentalization - imagining what it's like for others. That's a first time for a person with BPD.

If you have those kind of empathetic abilities to begin with, then BPD does not sound the correct diagnosis to me.

In a way it can become a technicallity to discuss whether a person "really loved" someone. It's a feeling after all. It's one thing what a psychologist would define as an adult remantic relationship and then "romantic feelings" on the other hand. But the latter is of a more temporary nature.

You see and that's the thing BPD don't have zero empathy. Often giving is a form of hoping to receive in return.  It's not the first for a BPD but perhaps it may help you to see that their are BPDs that exist outside the range you may have in mind.

In fact I've known a few chicks that were definately on the BPD spectrum all quite BPDs that basically paid my way to chill/sleep with them.

Idk how long to get situations like that to last with them but that was when in was in te painted white phases. 

Also and idk completely why but I am like a magnet to quiet borderline women. I can count on both hands how many, each unique and different and fairly different to how I hear them described on here. I have only gotten to the devalue stage with 2 of them.

The others were like travelers that wanted me to run away with them.

[cosmonaut]

Why do they defy easy answers and analysis? Isn't it an indisputed fact that pwBPD have trouble with reciprocity? It is a relational disorder. Emotionally they are like kids and kids don't love in the grown up sense.

Hearing it from the wrong person is hurtful, but at the end of the day I think we must value the truth over someone's feelings or integrity.

I think we can agree that the relationship is disordered and that a pwBPD is not able to love in a healthy, adult manner.  That is not the same thing as saying that they are incapable of love.  They may be emotional little children, but little children are capable of love.  I can't say if every pwBPD loves their partner, but I do suspect that some most certainly do.  They love in the best way that they know how.

As to reciprocity, pwBPD are indeed capable of giving and reciprocity - until that giving conflicts with their emotional state.  That's when the trouble starts.  When forced to choose between giving and their emotional needs, the disorder wins and the pwBPD will do what they feel they must to stop the emotion.

I can't prove that pwBPD love, but it is what I sincerely believe.

[Pingo]

I had one friend tell me I must know nothing about love and that I'm an idiot and it's all my fault and he has no sympathy for me. In fact that's pretty much what everyone I knew told me in a critical tone of contempt and superiority. 

That is terrible!  How invalidating!  Friends like that, who needs enemies?

What I think happens is often people recognize their own vulnerability in you and project their own situation they can relate to into you then become impatient and critical of this part of themselves through you. 

What I don't think people realize is how oppresive that is to invalidate another's reality based on their own personal beliefs and ideals or that is what they are doing as they do it.

I think this is a very good point Blim!  I see myself doing this sometimes on this board.  Then I remind myself that we all on our own journeys and who am I to put myself/my values onto someone else?

Trog, I had a friendship of almost 20 yrs go south this past year since my BU with my uBPDexh.  She didn't approve of my recycle with him last February and she said it threatened our r/s (What the heck?).  Then we ended up splitting again and she couldn't just support me in going through the most difficult time of my life.  She had to insult him and accuse him of lying about something huge (because her 'intuition' told her so).  I was not ready to hear this kind of criticism and I told her what she said hurt me.  I told her that I felt like she was bringing her own issues to the situation and there was no 'reality' to base her accusations on.  She couldn't handle me calling her out and she dumped me as a friend.  This was my best friend! 

[Blimblam]

Pingo,

Ugh I'm sorry about your friend. It was my best friend that said that stuff to me.  He keeps talking about all the stuff he needs to do to prepare to have a family one day.  I told him he needs to process his own pain and learn to be validating and that's the most important thing for his kids.  Idk he talks about having a maid to raise them an private school. Etc.  I'm thinking what they really need is nurturing, and validation but hey that's just me. 

But yeah I think I should have wrote "we" rather than "they" in that statement becUse I do it to we all do. I was pretty good about it for a few years but this last year has been the unraveling and exposition of my deepest most vulnerabilities then trampled on. It will come back together eventually accepting where I am at now and taking it from there is all I can really do I suppoce.