Do they ever realize what they lost

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Just wondering if people with BPD ever realize really what they had and what they lost?

[Left broken and confused]

Just wondering if people with BPD ever realize really what they had and what they lost?

[eyvindr]

I think probably most of them do, and they suffer. Remember this disorder is rooted in shame, we think. And all of these lost or abandoned loves get chucked into the failure column -- much in the same way that we engage in these little self-defeating exercises.

Why do we do that? To punish ourselves? To remind ourselves not to make the same mistake again? Who knows. I tend to think it's because we're still learning.

And intend to think that's the difference between people who are mentally healthy and people who struggle with BPD. We have much more of a chance to learn from our mistakes, to break out of that loop. Whereas our BPD partners are trapped in the cyclical pattern of the illness. It's sad.

[myself]

Did they ever really have it to lose?

We think they did, because of what we offered.

But with intimacy such a trigger, were they ever really with us?

My now-ex, even though she projected a 'monster' image onto me (in her words) as one of her main reasons to end the relationship, also wrote to me awhile ago saying that she's been missing me. So what did she lose/what does she miss? The monster she discarded? It's helped me see even more that she doesn't stick to her story or believe her own viewpoint. It changes in her disordered winds. Her life is angels and devils and she's the god?

She misses the chance she had and lost to have a better life with me.

So yes, in this case, she's aware of what she ran from/doesn't have.

But she still laid all the blame for it on me, losing another chance.

[Blimblam]

I think they sort of do but the disorder prevents them from experiencing it fully often times. It sort of looms over their shoulder like an ominous presence they are in the shadow of.

[Left broken and confused]

I really hate this disorder and all the unanswered questions. In a normal relationship or ending of a relationship you can talk about the things that are bothering you or hurting you but with a BPD your always worried about triggering them.

[Hope0807]

IMO, I think the possibility is very small if at all.  For example, to realize what they lost would require them to be introspective, to look within themselves and have some insight - that act requires delving deeply into  emotions and Borderlines struggle the most with emotions - so it's a lifelong challenge for them to try to manage them.

Some experts compare the idea of the BPD not realizing what they lost to a movie being put back in the case and never being watched a second time.  ":)one…Next!" 

[Moselle]

Her life is angels and devils and she's the god?

LB&C, This sums up BPD very succinctly for me! I'm so sorry your relationship has ended. It must be devastating for you.

My relationship hasn't ended but it's hanging by a thread, and I still don't know whether mine will choose healthy or not, but I know I have chosen Healthy, with a capital H. I'm no longer willing to hand over power to someone with a serious mental illness.  I think that is a more important choice than whether to continue or not in this relationship. Hopefully things just kind of work out for the best after we have chosen our paths.

Does she realise what she has? I think so. But I'm a little bit introspective about my side of this equation.  I have played a co-dependent role in this unhealthy dance. CHOOSING to stay in it, even though that choice was not a conscious one. I recognise the wounds from my childhood that attracted me to her in the first place. They are mine and I'm healing from them. After 12 months of BPD intensive training I am making a conscious choice to stay in.  Regardless of what she does or has, I love her - the person. I do not love the disorder however,  in fact I actively dislike it.

[drummerboy]

I don't think they do. Their lives are devoted to bring the victim, everyone else is the problem. Until they get some insight into their condition they just keep the "I'm fine" act going. With my ex, nothing was ever her fault, everyone else was to blame, she was incapable of even considering that her behaviour was the cause of her woes. So why would they have any sense of what they lost when what they lost was just another episode of bad luck in their life. Another person that screwed them over. The few that get some insight and start looking inward instead of laying blame everywhere might see what they lost but for most, no way, nothing is ever their fault.

[eyvindr]

I couldn't have said it better. It's a constant dilemma in the one area of life where most of us crave stability and certainty.

I really hate this disorder and all the unanswered questions. In a normal relationship or ending of a relationship you can talk about the things that are bothering you or hurting you but with a BPD your always worried about triggering them.

[Painterly2014]

I remember my BPD husband saying "otta sight, otta mind" about people quite often when he felt they did something he didn't like. This is including his family members and kids.   I think this is the way they think about people.  If they are not right there with you in the same room with you or need something you can provide for them then you don't even enter the radar.  

[Hope0807]

That is so perfect Painterly2014!  Mine said the same:  "outta sight, outta mind" all the time with things like remembering to take vitamins…but I came to realize that was an absolute motto for his life!  Good stuff!

I remember my BPD husband saying "otta sight, otta mind" about people quite often when he felt they did something he didn't like. This is including his family members and kids.   I think this is the way they think about people.  If they are not right there with you in the same room with you or need something you can provide for them then you don't even enter the radar.  

[Deeno02]

I remember my BPD husband saying "otta sight, otta mind" about people quite often when he felt they did something he didn't like. This is including his family members and kids.   I think this is the way they think about people.  If they are not right there with you in the same room with you or need something you can provide for them then you don't even enter the radar.  

Yeah, her quote"when Im done, Im done". Not sure why shes so angry at me though. Shes with the new guy some 4 months now. She should be happy.

[Hawk Ridge]

Perhaps this is why they recycle... .

[antjs]

for BPDs feelings are facts. lets say i am feeling sad because i might not get the new job. once i view facts that i am the most suitable candidate for this job then my feelings go away. cause i am not delusional. cause i know that feelings are temporary and can not be reasoned and can be wrong. this is not the case for borderline people. for them feelings are facts.


how many feelings do you get every day ? 100s ? 1000s ? its ok for you. but its not ok for them cause for them its like the reality changes 100s or 1000s times a day. no wonder they commit suicide.

yes they can be lucid about it for some time and even cry about it. but you know what is next ? the next minute they get up, dry their tears, put on a smile and go buy ice cream or sleep with someone. and they do it genuinely ! they are not covering up.

[PaintedBlack28]

I think they sort of do but the disorder prevents them from experiencing it fully often times. It sort of looms over their shoulder like an ominous presence they are in the shadow of.

This is exactly what I think.

[PaintedBlack28]

yes they can be lucid about it for some time and even cry about it. but you know what is next ? the next minute they get up, dry their tears, put on a smile and go buy ice cream or sleep with someone. and they do it genuinely ! they are not covering up.[/quote]
Absolutely right.

[Moselle]

yes they can be lucid about it for some time and even cry about it. but you know what is next ? the next minute they get up, dry their tears, put on a smile and go buy ice cream or sleep with someone. and they do it genuinely ! they are not covering up.

I recognise this. My wife started screaming and abusing me once and I decided to leave. As I was packing my stuff and getting out she asked me if it would be possible to borrow my car as hers had no gas in it.

Its like there is a disconnect in their brain about the feelings of others. Perhaps I don't even exist to her. Thats what it feels like. Their emotions are for their own loss exclusively.  There is no compassion,  there is no empathy,  there is no remorse.  From what I've read I think these emotions would burn them to the very core. So they are excluded for their own emotional survival. The rest of us are collateral damage and or a spure of Narcissistic supply, during their internal war.

[HappyNihilist]

Its like there is a disconnect in their brain about the feelings of others. Perhaps I don't even exist to her.

When a pwBPD is triggered/dysregulated, there truly is no room inside their heads for other people's feelings or needs. Emotionally, no, at that moment you do not exist to a pwBPD.

oceanheart, a member who is recovered from BPD, described it this way--

Neediness and fear are all about what's happening to the person [with BPD], leaving no room for empathy or even awareness of others' needs.

I think probably most of them do, and they suffer. Remember this disorder is rooted in shame, we think. And all of these lost or abandoned loves get chucked into the failure column

I agree; I think most pwBPD probably do realize, at least at some point in their lives, that they have destroyed r/s's and hurt others and themselves. I also agree that it adds to the shame and guilt that they already struggle with every day of their lives. My exBPDbf had lucid sad periods when he would beat himself up for always pushing away the people he cared about.

much in the same way that we engage in these little self-defeating exercises.

Why do we do that? To punish ourselves? To remind ourselves not to make the same mistake again? Who knows. I tend to think it's because we're still learning.

All of these reasons and more... .

Even exercises in futility can lead us to insights about ourselves... .it's just a rather roundabout way to get there... . 

[willtimeheal]

I would like to believe they do realize what they lost but I don't think they do. This disorder  is all about them and their needs... .even if they missed you or realize  they hurt you it would probably be at a time when they needed something from you... .That is why you popped into their mind in the first place. My exBPDgf told me she loved me and wanted everything with me. I believed her and I offered her everything I had and I offered her a fantastic life... .I soon found out she was telling two others the same thing. These people don't have a conscious and the only thing they care about is themselves. I don't think they give us a second thought once we are discarded unless we.can fill a need.

[WhyMe?]

I remember my BPD husband saying "otta sight, otta mind" about people quite often when he felt they did something he didn't like. This is including his family members and kids.   I think this is the way they think about people.  If they are not right there with you in the same room with you or need something you can provide for them then you don't even enter the radar.  

Mine accused me of treating him that way. Ie if he wasn't around he said I forgot about him. I'm sure he felt the same about me once he stopped talking to me

[Infern0]

Yes and no.

Back when we first met and were friends she mentioned her ex from like a year ago and how she was sad that she "lost him" and I asked what happened and she had cheated on him.

I was like well can't you try talking to him,  it's been a year and people can change etc but she said no, it wouldn't be the same this time.

On other times she said she hated him and he was always mean to her.

So many BPD warning signs in those early stages,  even the language used. I had no idea haha

[Trog]

My ex would talk about one ex in particular who she felt was the love of her nice (let's not go into the fact that she would say this to me while married! Grr, more triangulation) and she obsessed over the ex a lot, Talk about it way too much, I started to hate the ex. Then, the ex died. I thought I was in for months of hell, I didn't even see her shed a tear, i offered many times to talk about it, I told her it was OK if she wanted to cry, this was after all the love of her life. But... We went on holiday the next day and she was laughing, playing in the sea, making love, I kept looking at her to see if I could find the normal emotions of a friend of 5 years had died. Nothing. Then for the next year after, no delayed reaction... .Nothing. I found it quite creepy. So no, I don't think they lament what they lost, I think they talk about ex loves to score points or hurt new loves, but care, like regular people care and exp loss. No. Makes me shudder to think about.

[Blimblam]

I think in a weird way as soon as we are out of the potential triangulation roster we are like sort of dead to them at the same time they will recollect us to be able to remeber who they are.  So it's like when they shove all their crap on us and we feel horrible they are killing this part of themself sort of. I mean it sure feels like death like when I for sure took myself out of her possible replacement list it felt like I was dying and did die. They have to make space for the new attachment.  Remember to them it is like they are lost in the Sahara desert and they need to attach to whoever for survival they don't have time to feel the pain of banishment from te tribe to they let us deal with that pain.

[ScotisGone74]

If a five year old finds a new shiney toy are they worried about their last toy they used to play with?  They may talk to their current toy and tell it all about the previous toy/toys, but that does Not mean they miss any of their past toys.   Their main concern is finding the latest shiney new toy that can make them happy right Now. 

[ldeora]

This is my lighthearted and metaphorical attempt to understand and explain an attachment disorder like BPD. Don't take it too seriously and please excuse my bad English - it's not even my second language.

Amongst my friends I'm known for always having a new mobile phone whenever they see me. Some will last for a few days, some for weeks and some for even a few months! Am I gadget crazy? Do I buy them because I want to? No! Because I have to and it's not my fault.

Whenever I get a new one, I tell myself: "this one will be mine forever! It's nice, it's even better than the old one and it does exactly what I *need*!". But then it happens: as with all the previous phones, it either get stolen, it breaks or I lose it.

I really lost count of how many phones I had in the past years. When I think back, I do remember that some of them were really nice and some were really ___ty. But even those bad ones I liked in the beginning until I saw the little flaws. Either way: I lost or broke them.

Mobile phones are just inanimate objects to me but of course I'm sad and annoyed when they are gone. Even worse: I have to go buy a new one because without a phone I'm "not complete". I *need* them. I have no real emotions when I think of my past and current phones - why should I? Still I feel sad when I lose one without having a replacement.

I started to look for replacements even when I *knew* that my current one is the best I could ever have! Why? Because I *know* that I'll lose or breake it anyway. This way my *need* to be available is always satisfied.

I know there is something wrong (with me), because my friends are laughing at me when I tell them that I had to get a new phone *again*. But I don't know *what* is wrong with me. They say I "should take better care" of my current phone but I don't understand what that means. Someone told me I shouldn't leave it on the bar table when I go to the restroom because that's how they got stolen. I don't get it. My phone is mine but as soon as I head to the restroom it is out of my sight and somehow out of my mind. When I come back, it's gone. Another friend of mine suggested that I should "treat it better". Whatever that means... .

The problem is that I can't really get attached to my new phones anymore. Yes, they do what I want and need, but I know they won't last. I don't install all my favorite apps anymore, I don't even change the default settings.

A couple of months ago I had a really nice one. My friends were impressed. What happened? I treated it poorly, cracked the screen when it fell on the floor. Was it my fault? Of course not! The floor was way too hard and the display way too soft.

So I had to buy a new one just a few days after that perfect phone was gone. This time it was a cheap dumb phone, because I was angry and deep down inside I knew that it won't last anyways. I know my friends will laugh at me but I don't care. It's a downgrade for sure but it does most of the things I *need now*.

Sometimes I feel guilt and even shame because I know I should do something different. I didn't invest emotions but I lost a lot of money but that's the way I am I guess. At the end I'm the one with the new toys and my friends envy me, right? They even validate and enable me by giving me their number *again*. But when I lose another phone I think of all the phones I've lost in the past and I get sad until I go to the store... .

This is actually real: I (ldeora) am somewhat of a BPD when it comes to mobile phones. It's a running gag amongst my friends. And that's how I see my exBPDgf: for reasons she can't explain, she loses one friend/SO after another but she can't understand why. Sometimes she thinks back, remembers all the good times she had, feels guilt and shame and gets sad. But people are just replaceable objects, so why care?

[Left broken and confused]

Ideora

That was absolutely perfect.  That is the best explanation I think I have heard of course it's not the one any of us want to hear

[milo1967]

My XW bounced back and forth for a year between the guy she was having an affair and me. Once in awhile she would say how she'd hit rock bottom, loved me and missed me. Then she would resume portraying me as a monster. Finally I filed for divorce. Then she kicked into high gear her vilification of me.

Five months before the divorce was finalized she came crying to me, saying she missed me. I told her it was too late. She promptly moved in with her boyfriend and the vilification resumed.

Nine months after the divorce, the other day my daughter told me her mother was crying because she missed me. She also told me her mom is getting married. Yesterday XW sent me a very nasty text.

Clearly she fluctuates and has no idea what she wants, who she is, and likely what she lost. Sad.

[Tim300]

Clearly she fluctuates and has no idea what she wants

I think mine was like this.  She really seemed very genuinely interested in me during many days in the final couple months.  But then other days she seemed be be totally indifferent about moving forward.  I think she just can't figure out what she wants -- not consistently at least.  I mean, she could say, "I want us to move in together in town X and get married on April 10th," but within a month or two she'll have changed her mind.   

[Tim300]

I don't think they do. Their lives are devoted to bring the victim, everyone else is the problem. Until they get some insight into their condition they just keep the "I'm fine" act going. With my ex, nothing was ever her fault, everyone else was to blame, she was incapable of even considering that her behaviour was the cause of her woes. So why would they have any sense of what they lost when what they lost was just another episode of bad luck in their life. Another person that screwed them over. The few that get some insight and start looking inward instead of laying blame everywhere might see what they lost but for most, no way, nothing is ever their fault.

I agree with this.  My ex at times seemed to show awareness that she was the common factor in her long string of failed relationships.  However, this awareness seemed to be overshadowed by a deeper feeling that "Everyone else has issues.  Everyone else must have Asperger syndrome.  The people I like most always abandon me.  It's a dog-eat-dog world and everyone's out to get me."  Accordingly, i don't think she feels like she lost something good in discarding me, I feel like she thinks "I've escaped my controlling abuser."  To her, anyone who expects 50-50 interactions with her is a controlling abuser.

[Deeno02]

I don't think they do. Their lives are devoted to bring the victim, everyone else is the problem. Until they get some insight into their condition they just keep the "I'm fine" act going. With my ex, nothing was ever her fault, everyone else was to blame, she was incapable of even considering that her behaviour was the cause of her woes. So why would they have any sense of what they lost when what they lost was just another episode of bad luck in their life. Another person that screwed them over. The few that get some insight and start looking inward instead of laying blame everywhere might see what they lost but for most, no way, nothing is ever their fault.

I agree with this.  My ex at times seemed to show awareness that she was the common factor in her long string of failed relationships.  However, this awareness seemed to be overshadowed by a deeper feeling that "Everyone else has issues.  Everyone else must have Asperger syndrome.  The people I like most always abandon me.  It's a dog-eat-dog world and everyone's out to get me."  Accordingly, i don't think she feels like she lost something good in discarding me, I feel like she thinks "I've escaped my controlling abuser."  To her, anyone who expects 50-50 interactions with her is a controlling abuser.

Wow, mine said that a lot as well. Swore up and down that he was on the "spectrum" and she had to "teach" him to be in a family. Sheesh