Feeling like im back to square one

[jammo1989]

I have been over and over everything regarding my ex and the relationship I was in.  I am currently 4 months NC after being blocked and being replaced within 3 weeks of our break up.  At first I thought she was BPD, I felt down and actually felt sorry for her.  I then read up a lot on NPD and I almost convinced myself she was more NPD rather than BPD, but over the past few days a lot of things are coming back to me, and I can now see all the BPD symptoms.  When I thought she was NPD I felt as if I was instantly over her because I saw it as she never cared about me, so im not going to let someone like that get to me.

But now I can see all the BPD and im starting to feel as If things were my fault, and Im starting to see her as someone whos crying out for help, and its really starting to annoy me.  For example, I told her I would pay for her driving lessons, I also told her we should move in together, I used to get agitated when she wouldn't open up to me.  I now understand that she needed me there for her, but not as the guy that would spend his money and treat her, she just wanted someone she could open up to.  Im starting to feel a bit guilty even though everything I said or did was because I just wanted to give her a better life.  I know what BPD is, but, when i relate it back to the girl I was with it makes me feel like maybe I was to forward, but, she never opened up she just pushed me away and expected me to read her mind.         

[jhkbuzz]

I have been over and over everything regarding my ex and the relationship I was in.  I am currently 4 months NC after being blocked and being replaced within 3 weeks of our break up.  At first I thought she was BPD, I felt down and actually felt sorry for her.  I then read up a lot on NPD and I almost convinced myself she was more NPD rather than BPD, but over the past few days a lot of things are coming back to me, and I can now see all the BPD symptoms.  When I thought she was NPD I felt as if I was instantly over her because I saw it as she never cared about me, so im not going to let someone like that get to me.

But now I can see all the BPD and im starting to feel as If things were my fault, and I'm starting to see her as someone whos crying out for help, and its really starting to annoy me.  For example, I told her I would pay for her driving lessons, I also told her we should move in together, I used to get agitated when she wouldn't open up to me.  I now understand that she needed me there for her, but not as the guy that would spend his money and treat her, she just wanted someone she could open up to.  Im starting to feel a bit guilty even though everything I said or did was because I just wanted to give her a better life.  I know what BPD is, but, when i relate it back to the girl I was with it makes me feel like maybe I was to forward, but, she never opened up she just pushed me away and expected me to read her mind.         

8 year relationship... .about 5 months post b/u and about 3 months n/c... .and I was also replaced quickly, so on all levels I feel your pain.  :'(

It sounds like you're still in the FOG - I find that on some days my FOG comes rolling back in as well.  Be patient with yourself, and remind yourself that you can't "solve" a psychological disorder - there's really nothing you could have said or done to make her BPD "go away."  That's magical thinking on your part.

Over the past week or so I've begun to make the decision to shift the focus from her behavior in the relationship to my own... .how I got hooked in, what kept me there, how my fear of being alone kept me from ending it (even though, strangely enough, I've never before been afraid of being alone and have spent long portions of my adult life as a single person). As my focus shifts I am beginning to find that two things are happening (although not consistently - I still fall back into focusing on her sometimes):

1.  I feel some of my 'power' coming back (because I'm working to identify what I need to "improve" in myself before I get into another relationship - and that kind of work focuses my attention on the future instead of the past), and

2.  I find myself (when I do shift back into thinking about her) taking her behavior less and less personally.  This helps to ease the pain, for sure.

[Suzn]

But now I can see all the BPD and im starting to feel as If things were my fault, and Im starting to see her as someone whos crying out for help, and its really starting to annoy me.  

jammo you did not cause BPD, nor can you be the one to "help" her get the help she needs. You are a trigger for her. Two things have to happen with a person with BPD to get help. (though there are more than two things, I'm just pointing out two)

Only a licensed professional, TRAINED in DBT, knows how to treat a person with BPD. We are not professionals. We can learn skills if we chose to stay in a r/s with a pwBPD, that takes diligence and a very secure sense of self on our part.

Second, it will do no good for a pwBPD to go to therapy FOR someone else. In other words, if she were to agree to therapy to get you back. It takes serious focus and diligence on the part of a pwBPD to heal and that task is quite difficult when one is in a r/s. I'm not saying it's not possible but that person's success in treatment is more likely if they were to recognize it on their own and reach out for help for themselves... .on their own. It's just my opinion however I see that one point as a gage to that person's self awareness. Does that make sense?

If we were to liken this to an alcoholic going to AA... .they are told not to date for at least a year. This is so that they can focus on their issue to get a better foothold on their recovery. One can learn an amazing amount about oneself in a year. A relationship can be and generally IS a heavy distraction.

[jammo1989]

But now I can see all the BPD and im starting to feel as If things were my fault, and Im starting to see her as someone whos crying out for help, and its really starting to annoy me.  

jammo you did not cause BPD, nor can you be the one to "help" someone get the help they need. You are a trigger for her. Two things have to happen with a person with BPD to get help. (though there are more than two things, I'm just pointing out two)

Only a licensed professional, TRAINED in DBT, knows how to treat a person with BPD. We are not professionals. We can learn skills if we chose to stay in a r/s with a pwBPD, that takes diligence and a very secure sense of self on our part.

Second, it will do no good for a pwBPD to go to therapy FOR someone else. In other words, if she were to agree to therapy to get you back. It takes serious focus and diligence on the part of a pwBPD to heal and that task is quite difficult when one is in a r/s. I'm not saying it's not possible but that person's success in treatment is more likely if they were to recognize it on their own and reach out for help for themselves... .on their own. It's just my opinion however I see that one point as a gage to that person's self awareness. Does that make sense?

If we were to liken this to an alcoholic going to AA... .they are told not to date for at least a year. This is so that they can focus on their issue to get a better foothold on their recovery. One can learn an amazing amount about oneself in a year. A relationship can be and generally IS a heavy distraction.

Thank you suzn, yeah that does make sense, and i undertand her need for therapy is her choice, but as I keep coming out of the FOG so many things get brought up in my mind again.  for example, when she was triggered she told me that Drs urged her to go on anti depressants and that she had horrible feelings of standing in front of a moving car.  She was all over the place crying telling me she loved me but when she heard my voice she hated me, she even said I love you James, but when i hear your voice i hate you, i hate you so much, all said while crying hysterically.  She also told me she was offered councilling, and after her first session, apparently, her therapist told her you shouldnt be in a relationships right now, but she gets with my replacment 3 weeks later, is this all a lie about going to therapy, or was it genuine? I guess ill never know.

[fred6]

But now I can see all the BPD and im starting to feel as If things were my fault, and Im starting to see her as someone whos crying out for help, and its really starting to annoy me.  

jammo you did not cause BPD, nor can you be the one to "help" someone get the help they need. You are a trigger for her. Two things have to happen with a person with BPD to get help. (though there are more than two things, I'm just pointing out two)

Only a licensed professional, TRAINED in DBT, knows how to treat a person with BPD. We are not professionals. We can learn skills if we chose to stay in a r/s with a pwBPD, that takes diligence and a very secure sense of self on our part.

Second, it will do no good for a pwBPD to go to therapy FOR someone else. In other words, if she were to agree to therapy to get you back. It takes serious focus and diligence on the part of a pwBPD to heal and that task is quite difficult when one is in a r/s. I'm not saying it's not possible but that person's success in treatment is more likely if they were to recognize it on their own and reach out for help for themselves... .on their own. It's just my opinion however I see that one point as a gage to that person's self awareness. Does that make sense?

If we were to liken this to an alcoholic going to AA... .they are told not to date for at least a year. This is so that they can focus on their issue to get a better foothold on their recovery. One can learn an amazing amount about oneself in a year. A relationship can be and generally IS a heavy distraction.

Thank you suzn, yeah that does make sense, and i undertand her need for therapy is her choice, but as I keep coming out of the FOG so many things get brought up in my mind again.  for example, when she was triggered she told me that Drs urged her to go on anti depressants and that she had horrible feelings of standing in front of a moving car.  She was all over the place crying telling me she loved me but when she heard my voice she hated me, she even said I love you James, but when i hear your voice i hate you, i hate you so much, all said while crying hysterically.  She also told me she was offered councilling, and after her first session, apparently, her therapist told her you shouldnt be in a relationships right now, but she gets with my replacment 3 weeks later, is this all a lie about going to therapy, or was it genuine? I guess ill never know.

jammo1989,

I see a couple parallels. My ex was never in true therapy. She was talking to a councilor at her church for free every Tuesday. When she was breaking up with me she said that she thought she had a problem with hating men. And also like your ex she said that she needed to work on herself and that she couldn't be in a relationship and didn't want to be in a relationship right now. However that doesn't explain the cheating and lying. If you don't or can't be in a relationship, just end the relationship on good terms and go about your business.

During one of her rages when I confronted her about new supply. I told her that she needed to get some help and she told me that she was seeing the councilor at church. I pointed out that she more than likely needed a paid therapist that specialized in this type of thing. Her reply was that the guy at her church had a "college degree"(so what?)and that her life was good and that she was happy(What the heck?). In the end, I think that she knows that she has a problem. However, I don't think that she knows to what extent her problem is. I feel the "free" church councilor is probably doing more harm than good. Maybe not.

Your situation, like mine. I don't feel that either of us could have done enough to keep the relationships stable and healthy. Looking back, there are many things that I could have done differently that may have prolonged the relationship. But then again, they weren't things that should have ended the relationship. Especially if they were communicated to me in the first place. Even if there was something more that we could have done, does it matter at this point? We can't turn back time... .

[Pingo]

jammo, I remember going through these feelings, like if I had known then what I know now I could have made better choices, reacted differently, etc.  What I found that helped keep me in reality (eliminating magical thinking) was reading through the staying board.  See how people who know all about BPD are dealing with their SO's.  They are using the techniques, they have the resources and support, they've read the books... .and so many are still struggling to have any happy life.  Many end up on the undecided boards and eventually here on the leaving boards. 

Looking back after all I've learned, I cannot see a way it could have been possible to salvage our r/s where I end up feeling happy and relaxed.  Yes I could have made it maybe 'less bad' but I would never have found peace and trust and real intimacy. And why settle for less than this?  Why sacrifice my life for him?

[Tim300]

She was all over the place crying telling me she loved me but when she heard my voice she hated me, she even said I love you James, but when i hear your voice i hate you, i hate you so much, all said while crying hysterically.  

Mine started to get crazy like this at the end.  It's difficult to tell if it's BPD or sadism, or some combination of this or something else.  Who knows.  One thing is for sure -- it is crazy.  I think the only rational thing to do is cut your losses and distance yourself.

[jhkbuzz]

She was all over the place crying telling me she loved me but when she heard my voice she hated me, she even said I love you James, but when i hear your voice i hate you, i hate you so much, all said while crying hysterically.  

Mine started to get crazy like this at the end.  It's difficult to tell if it's BPD or sadism, or some combination of this or something else.  Who knows.  One thing is for sure -- it is crazy.  I think the only rational thing to do is cut your losses and distance yourself.

That's emotional dysregulation & splitting

[fred6]

She was all over the place crying telling me she loved me but when she heard my voice she hated me, she even said I love you James, but when i hear your voice i hate you, i hate you so much, all said while crying hysterically.  

Mine started to get crazy like this at the end.  It's difficult to tell if it's BPD or sadism, or some combination of this or something else.  Who knows.  One thing is for sure -- it is crazy.  I think the only rational thing to do is cut your losses and distance yourself.

That's emotional dysregulation & splitting

Words vs actions. Mine said that she loved me, I was good to her, I took care of her, and that I had done nothing wrong. Her actions toward me ranged from silence and avoidance to treating me like a stranger to anger/hostility. Those words and actions don't go together. Looking back, I'm not sure which was true.

[Suzn]

She was all over the place crying telling me she loved me but when she heard my voice she hated me, she even said I love you James, but when i hear your voice i hate you

jammo we all have painful memories that haunt us in the beginning.    

We all played a role, the key is to figure out what our role was. For me the initial step was to see that my boundaries were seriously lacking and that that stemmed back to my upbringing. Nevertheless, I think if we could have swooped them up and taken all the pain from their pasts away every one of us would have. If only it was that simple.

Here's the thing, something that a wise person told me, you did the best you could with the information you had at the time. You are learning and growing right now being on these boards. Give yourself the same compassion that you are giving her in your memories. These memories are triggers for you, my hope is that you see that and that you take very good care of you right now. It's very difficult to come to understand that not only can we not save someone else in these r/s but that we can do more harm than good (to both of you) just by our [unskilled] presence in them.  

[outside9x]

Hi I feel you pain.  I feel this way today and its been almost two years, and though she pushed me away and treated me badly (She was so beautiful) I feel many times her raging and crying was just so much frustration on her part  and I just couldn't understand as all I gave her was my undying love.  I know she wanted was for me to recognized she felt this way, and at times, I did even though I was being blamed for it.  No I never admitted to things I never did.

But the raging and screaming sometimes was just crazy and with her background driving everyone away, I knew she had a big problem.

It wore me down and made me feel terrible, and she would never apologize and it only got worst.  So many breakups which is typical of a BPD relationship.  Hate you, want you back, and I try to tell myself it would always be that way because I would come back time and time again to face that. She would cry and cry and say how we belong together.

Yet today I am very sad, but I realize its because I think of her as this beauty and life could be so good with her, despite all the facts I lived and seen with her and her other relationships she destroyed.  Oh, and yes, they never blame themselves, its always your fault.  Stupidly I contact her only to hear this and realizing, again, I was playing the role of not wanting to upset her and just listening to a bunch of distortions of history.

  Then wanting to correct them, but I didn't.  How does that help me, to show her how badly she acted and treated me. More importantly, why would anyone go back to that?  It doesn't add up.  Like, you did these terrible things to me but I love you.  How sad! 

I was with her for 2 1/2 years.  Hang in there.  I am.  I just feel like because I am much older that she might of been more mellow but I know that's not the case but she does seem to learn from the past somewhat, but she can only mask for awhile, and then it comes out.

She mask with Xanax, weed, and alcohol.  (DUH!)  I didn't know this until about 9 months in.  Thanks for letting me vent and get this out and I hope it may help you see that though we crave them, its really an abuse and unlivable relationship.   All the fixes you try just settle things down a bit, but never cure.

[jhkbuzz]

Looking back after all I've learned, I cannot see a way it could have been possible to salvage our r/s where I end up feeling happy and relaxed.  Yes I could have made it maybe 'less bad' but I would never have found peace and trust and real intimacy. And why settle for less than this? 

Amen.