Pro-choice for men and women

[stoic83]

I agree that we should take ownership of our reproduction and wear a condom - but it is a harsh lesson to learn.

Now a child exists for the sole purpose of manipulation, you will do as you are told - otherwise you will not see your child. If the Mother is willing to get pregnant using manipulation, you are kidding yourself if you think she'll be understanding about a financial agreement. I've been through both, I've had a female say she was on the pill - and couldn't have kids anyway. These aren't the type of girls who will waver a financial agreement - just because it is the right thing to do. If you have a job, you feel like quitting out of principle - that she is getting a free ride by manipulation, but on the other hand if you do actually quit, then you are only hurting yourself. Then there is also the issue of not being able to work because mentally you cannot cope - which I imagine would be common.

This is EXACTLY what my counselor said. And exactly what I am facing. I am going to quit my job and I'm moving away to lie low(before the child is born)... .then I will get another job after a time of healing.

I am already looking in other states. Everyone who cares about me is telling me to move... .and that includes two psychologists. And they are both women with daughters. One of them, a child psychologist and the most loving woman I know (my auntie).

[stoic83]

I could've been more careful. In this day and age recreational sex is promoted everywhere. Women are empowered to have casual sex.

Let me explain: She told me she was infertile. She told me she took an emergency contraceptive that was good for a month. She told me she had no eggs, only cysts. She told me that I could stay with her to save money during a rough time. She held me down during sex, and I wouldve had to physically hurt her to get her off of me. I have learned helplessness and have been raped by a woman in an earlier relationship. (It does happen). I woke up when I was sleeping to oral sex, and she shoved it in to get my sperm.

Im sorry for the graphic nature of all of this. But I don't think assigning blame to me really helps, nor does it make sense to me. i don't know why I am trying to justify this to the group, but I feel like I was violated. I have cried about this.

So not only do I feel extremely violated by this woman, but now I will be forced to pay her to abuse my child.

It's just an awful situation, but I wanted to make it clear that I couldn't have very well used the "withdrawal method" or worn a condom while I was sleeping.

Plus if you can't even believe a woman when she says she's infertile and it's impossible for her to get pregnant, then you shouldn't be sleeping with her... .condom or not.

Bottom line... .is I trusted her and she betrayed me.


You could say don't go over to a woman's house, because she might kill you... .oh, well you should've worn a bullet proof vest. Might be a bad analogy, but I wasn't having sex with a stranger or thinking I was being unsafe.

Stoic

[Grey Kitty]

Stoic, I'd recommend you read Skip's post earlier today again. He did a very good job of saying most of what I'd want to say.

However I do want to address one thing here:

I can't be the "knight in shining armor" to this little girl. The BPD mom, her entire crazy family

... .

Honestly, I'm so much more concerned about my own survival and financial future, that I'm not worried about the infant.

You have ZERO responsibility to BPD mom's family. They are toxic. Stay clear.

In your shoes I'd cut all contact. block the numbers of any of her family members that call you on the phone. Block them all on facebook. Set up something in your email to automatically delete anything they send you, if they know your email address.


You have no direct responsibility to the BPD mom. (Child support aside)

Then she sent me a bunch of texts telling me she needed to be loved and told how pretty she is, etc... .etc... .I've never felt like I've wanted to hurt a woman in my life... .but I can say that I've thought about it.

Last night I screamed at swore at her... .for hours. She finally broke down and cried, and told me how much she cared about me... .and it was just pathetic.

Why do you stay in close enough contact to do this? I think LC or NC would be much healthier for you.

As far as I can see, you have ~zero chance of being "nice enough" to her that she will not try to get all the child support she can from you. Honestly your best chance is that she'll pick a really bad lawyer... .


And once you get a little peace to think for yourself because you're not involved in her crap... .you can think about your responsibility for the child who has your DNA, and what you will choose to do about it.

[stoic83]

What would you do? I don't think that's a very difficult decision for most to make. I'd like to hear some people's thoughts. We are on anonymous Internet board. There is no need to cave to any sort of pressure of "i want to do the right thing" and all that other goodie-goodie nonsense.

It would be an extremely difficult decision for me. This is about who you really are.  I don't think the member answers above are burdened by political correctness.  For me, it wouldn't be "beer or baby, chose one".

Read the fathers that fought for custody on the legal board.  Read the daughters on the coping board that have a father that left them to fend for themselves.  Ever wonder why Shari Schreiber is so angry at people with BPD?  Look up her story (published circa 2006) - her father left when she was 5 (she blames it on BPD and mother).  

The road we travel defines us.  You are standing at a fork in that road.

One thing that I think many will agree with is that this is not the parenthood we all envision. Although talk to the world of single mothers/fathers and this is a plight many faced for their children.

Another thing that I think many will agree with is to stop hiding behind the wall of blame. Did the mother trap you, or is this just a outcome an emotionally immature relationship that fell apart with the stress of pregnancy. pwBPD don't do stress well. Or maybe she is cunning and having lots of babies with different men is her goal.  Either way, man up and don't use how the pregnancy came about to justify making this child be fatherless/you daughter-less.

This also not black and white.  You have options.  There are many intermediate steps between going for primary custody and leaving the country with no forwarding address.

Skip,

i think the daughter will eventually benefit from having me as a biological father... .but I envision my role in her life being fairly minimal.

The BPD mom will have a long time to alienate me, and I can't really see her developing a healthy mindset with an untreated mom who has BPD.

I doubt this little girl would want me to suffer just so that I can take her for ice cream twice a month.

Being a part time dad with visitation just isn't enough to do anything... .the BPD mom will have precedence since she will have custody initially and we were never together, and it will virtually impossible for me to ever get shared custody as the BPD mom can say that it's not healthy for the child to be shared between two homes, and I will be stuck having to go visit her all the time and pay her a 1000 a month just to cry in the driveway of the home im paying for, dropping her off , and heading home to my shack to eat ramen noodles while I mourn the loss of my girlfriend, who my BPD baby mama ran off, slashing her tires.

This does not seem to end well for me, skip. The thought of crying over your child being maltreated by the other parent, while you pay them to do so, makes me want to pull my hair out.

[stoic83]

Stoic, I'd recommend you read Skip's post earlier today again. He did a very good job of saying most of what I'd want to say.

However I do want to address one thing here:

I can't be the "knight in shining armor" to this little girl. The BPD mom, her entire crazy family

... .

Honestly, I'm so much more concerned about my own survival and financial future, that I'm not worried about the infant.

You have ZERO responsibility to BPD mom's family. They are toxic. Stay clear.

In your shoes I'd cut all contact. block the numbers of any of her family members that call you on the phone. Block them all on facebook. Set up something in your email to automatically delete anything they send you, if they know your email address.


You have no direct responsibility to the BPD mom. (Child support aside)

Then she sent me a bunch of texts telling me she needed to be loved and told how pretty she is, etc... .etc... .I've never felt like I've wanted to hurt a woman in my life... .but I can say that I've thought about it.

Last night I screamed at swore at her... .for hours. She finally broke down and cried, and told me how much she cared about me... .and it was just pathetic.

Why do you stay in close enough contact to do this? I think LC or NC would be much healthier for you.

As far as I can see, you have ~zero chance of being "nice enough" to her that she will not try to get all the child support she can from you. Honestly your best chance is that she'll pick a really bad lawyer... .


And once you get a little peace to think for yourself because you're not involved in her crap... .you can think about your responsibility for the child who has your DNA, and what you will choose to do about it.

Good points.

I think all this "man up" stuff is kind of nonsense though. "Manning up" is what allows women to take advantage of us in the first place.

This child isn't mine. It's hers. I'm just a sperm donor. That's how I think about it now.

Later in life, maybe I can help her out... .but I think that's how I am choosing to look at it. I'm not some stupid jerk that would just ejaculate in a woman and not think of the consequences. This woman STOLE my sperm. It was a con-job. Plain and simple.

Skip has a point. it was a con-job for love/family... .not for money. But these are things you can never take by force. If she goes for CS, it's more out of spite... .because she'd be too proud to take it otherwise.

[Panda39]

The thought of crying over your child being maltreated by the other parent, while you pay them to do so, makes me want to pull my hair out.

I sympathize with your dilemma you did not ask to be a father or to co-parent with this woman and since the child is in her body not yours terminating the pregnancy or not is not up to you.  So as always you can't control her and what she does you can only control what you do.  You want to cut and run.

I have a story too.  I married a man and shortly after marrying him I realized he was an alcoholic.  I tried to get him to stop drinking for 3 years.   We all know how well that worked. I couldn't "make" my husband stop drinking only he could.  I began thinking about leaving him.  At 29 years old and 3 years into my marriage I discovered I was pregnant even though we used a condom.  The pregnancy was a surprise and I had to decide what I was going to do. Did I stay with this alcoholic man that I was already considering leaving?  Could I support a baby and myself alone? Did I terminate the pregnancy?  Sometime well into the pregnancy my husband admitted to me that he had sabotaged the condom.   I felt incredibly violated... .like a rape... .Just like the male posters here the decision when to have a baby and with whom had been taken away from me.

But in spite of the circumstances of the conception I wanted my baby. I wanted to be a mom. I could not support my son and myself financially on my own so my husband got what he wanted... .I stayed in my marriage and in doing so became a co-dependent enabler, my husband and I lived like roommates (no trust=no sex), I felt like I was the adult with 2 children (my son and my husband) and eventually depression crept in but by then I could finally support my son and I so I finally divorced. Did my son have the ideal childhood unfortunately not but his physical needs were met and he was loved by both his father and I in our imperfect ways. 

I have never regretted having my baby not one day... .not ever. He is now 21 working part-time and paying his way through Community College, I like who he is and am proud of him.


I guess the question is can you look past the mother and see your child?  If you can't then maybe you go on your way, but if you can imagine this child and love it inspite of it's mother then maybe you stick around and give being a dad a try.

It's a tough choice and a personal choice.

[ImaFita]

I agree that we should take ownership of our reproduction and wear a condom - but it is a harsh lesson to learn.

Now a child exists for the sole purpose of manipulation, you will do as you are told - otherwise you will not see your child. If the Mother is willing to get pregnant using manipulation, you are kidding yourself if you think she'll be understanding about a financial agreement. I've been through both, I've had a female say she was on the pill - and couldn't have kids anyway. These aren't the type of girls who will waver a financial agreement - just because it is the right thing to do. If you have a job, you feel like quitting out of principle - that she is getting a free ride by manipulation, but on the other hand if you do actually quit, then you are only hurting yourself. Then there is also the issue of not being able to work because mentally you cannot cope - which I imagine would be common.

This is exactly what i'm thinking. If worse comes to worst i have a backup plan. I can always go back to my home country. Even though i havent been there since i was 5, i have lots of family there in the more affulent parts of the country and i don't think it would be too difficult to get a job and start my life over again. The more i think about it the more attaractive that sounds. I can be there and live on the beach, have my pick of beautiful women and be free or stay here and deal with non-stop drama from the BPDx, give her 1/3 of my salary for the next 14 years and see my kid once every two months. The thought of how much the BPDx would struggle financially without my money brings a smile to my face.

What would you do? I don't think that's a very difficult decisoin for most to make.

I'd like to hear some people's thoughts. We are on annonymous internet board. There is no need to cave to any sort of pressure of "i want to do the right thing" and all that other goodie-goodie nonsense.

I would move in a heart beat. If it makes sense financially, then I'd leave.

I plan on having children in the near future, so everything becomes about them. Giving those children the best possible chance to succeed in life. I could continue to beat my head against the wall complaining about an unfair situation and an unjust process - or I could leave the country, start a new life and family.

The choice for me would be an easy one. These days I do think more financial - because that does create more stability for my future family.

[ImaFita]

Stoic, I'd recommend you read Skip's post earlier today again. He did a very good job of saying most of what I'd want to say.

However I do want to address one thing here:

I can't be the "knight in shining armor" to this little girl. The BPD mom, her entire crazy family

... .

Honestly, I'm so much more concerned about my own survival and financial future, that I'm not worried about the infant.

You have ZERO responsibility to BPD mom's family. They are toxic. Stay clear.

In your shoes I'd cut all contact. block the numbers of any of her family members that call you on the phone. Block them all on facebook. Set up something in your email to automatically delete anything they send you, if they know your email address.


You have no direct responsibility to the BPD mom. (Child support aside)

Then she sent me a bunch of texts telling me she needed to be loved and told how pretty she is, etc... .etc... .I've never felt like I've wanted to hurt a woman in my life... .but I can say that I've thought about it.

Last night I screamed at swore at her... .for hours. She finally broke down and cried, and told me how much she cared about me... .and it was just pathetic.

Why do you stay in close enough contact to do this? I think LC or NC would be much healthier for you.

As far as I can see, you have ~zero chance of being "nice enough" to her that she will not try to get all the child support she can from you. Honestly your best chance is that she'll pick a really bad lawyer... .


And once you get a little peace to think for yourself because you're not involved in her crap... .you can think about your responsibility for the child who has your DNA, and what you will choose to do about it.

Good points.

I think all this "man up" stuff is kind of nonsense though. "Manning up" is what allows women to take advantage of us in the first place.

This child isn't mine. It's hers. I'm just a sperm donor. That's how I think about it now.

Later in life, maybe I can help her out... .but I think that's how I am choosing to look at it. I'm not some stupid jerk that would just ejaculate in a woman and not think of the consequences. This woman STOLE my sperm. It was a con-job. Plain and simple.

Skip has a point. it was a con-job for love/family... .not for money. But these are things you can never take by force. If she goes for CS, it's more out of spite... .because she'd be too proud to take it otherwise.

It was an absolute 'con-job'... But, if you were wearing protection, she could not of deceived you.

Trust me, I've been there. You are better off taking full responsibility, because otherwise you'll only get angry anytime someone points it out that you should've tarped - it just gives them a platform to further frustrate you.

From my experience, once I accepted responsibility about the reproduction process.

The only thing really left for me to take out of the situation after that was to not take people at their word - and to question everything.

[Rubies]

Thank you Skip.

I agree you cannot be a daddy if you cannot completely disengage, refuse to participate and accept the crazy.  The resources at this site, my first therapist specialized in dealing with BPD and was a former cop, and another II cop taught me a lot about flipping the OFF switch.  You do not accept phone calls, texts or contact.  Emails are saved without reading, and make boundary busting painful.   

It's legal business, not a relationship.  You pay your Stupid Tax, you have rights of parenthood to your child.  Play it well.  She should have rights of parenthood to her dad.

Since this isn't your first BPD rodeo, I think you need to focus on your own inner schema-spaghetti, why you accepted into poor treatment and change your own dynamics.  One of my DD's favorite sayings, "Wherever you go, there you are."  At some point you'll realize you can't run away from the real dragon that needs slaying.

[scraps66]

stoic, I feel for you and hope time has you in a better spot.  Counseling at the onset is a very good step for you to be taking.  Keep it up.  I was in a similar situation, have a S7 and S10.  While the journey has not been easy, and still is not the greatest in terms of my r/s with these children, I wouldn't have it any other way.  I would truly regret not having contact with these boys and feel that their chance at successful development would not be as great without my presence in their lives.  I am holding on, and now some 6+ years from separation, ex is still undiagnosed with BPD, maybe worse, and there are always struggles.

Have you considered the perspective that could change your current outlook of the ruined man, that being actually being the engaged dad to this child?  My point, if you're feeling like you have no control, no options, etc, etc., your outlook may be different if you were planning to actually be the dad with say 50/50 custody?  Your outlook may be totally different with putting some of this negative energy in a positive direction.  Just for consideration.

Your counselor's advice of not coparenting with this person, are you certain that she wasn't suggesting parenting, but just not coparenting with the mother?  Lots of us don't coparent, we "parallel parent," out of necessity and as a way of lessening the burden and the collateral effects of engaging with a BPD.

Some other things, are you exercising, are you eating right, and are you doing things that you like to do?  Don't lose your "self" in all of this.

More time needed on this topic and response, but these are my immediate ideas. 

[clydegriffith]

Stoic,

If the BPD person you are dealing with is as unstable and vindictive as the one i was dealing with your head is in the right direction in not wanting to get attached before the child is born.

Like yourself, the BPD also trapped me with a child. She had two other small children at the time and told me she was unable to have anymore kids. A month after we start seeing each other i get that "i'm pregnant" and initially i want nothing to do with her. Then she really went to work with the sweet talk and i fell for it. We moved in together and it was all down hill from there but it was too late. My daughter had already been born, i had held her in my arms and i became attached. The BPDx now had the ultimate weapon to control me. The following year was complete hell. She had me arrested 4 times on false DV accusations and cheated on me with probably a dozen or so guys.

If an out of wedlock woman wants to have a baby and the alleged father does not, she should be 100% financially responsible for it. After all, if it was the other way around and the woman wanted to abort when the man wants to keep it, she could do that with absolutley zero repricusssions.

My daughter is now 4 years old and given the situation with the mother i've become totatly indifferent to fatherhood. If we can somehow work things out civilly and i maintain some sort of relationship with her that's great. On the other hand if i have to do something drastic that would result in not having a relationship with her than so be it.

[stoic83]

The thought of crying over your child being maltreated by the other parent, while you pay them to do so, makes me want to pull my hair out.

I sympathize with your dilemma you did not ask to be a father or to co-parent with this woman and since the child is in her body not yours terminating the pregnancy or not is not up to you.  So as always you can't control her and what she does you can only control what you do.  You want to cut and run.

I have a story too.  I married a man and shortly after marrying him I realized he was an alcoholic.  I tried to get him to stop drinking for 3 years.   We all know how well that worked. I couldn't "make" my husband stop drinking only he could.  I began thinking about leaving him.  At 29 years old and 3 years into my marriage I discovered I was pregnant even though we used a condom.  The pregnancy was a surprise and I had to decide what I was going to do. Did I stay with this alcoholic man that I was already considering leaving?  Could I support a baby and myself alone? Did I terminate the pregnancy?  Sometime well into the pregnancy my husband admitted to me that he had sabotaged the condom.   I felt incredibly violated... .like a rape... .Just like the male posters here the decision when to have a baby and with whom had been taken away from me.

But in spite of the circumstances of the conception I wanted my baby. I wanted to be a mom. I could not support my son and myself financially on my own so my husband got what he wanted... .I stayed in my marriage and in doing so became a co-dependent enabler, my husband and I lived like roommates (no trust=no sex), I felt like I was the adult with 2 children (my son and my husband) and eventually depression crept in but by then I could finally support my son and I so I finally divorced. Did my son have the ideal childhood unfortunately not but his physical needs were met and he was loved by both his father and I in our imperfect ways. 

I have never regretted having my baby not one day... .not ever. He is now 21 working part-time and paying his way through Community College, I like who he is and am proud of him.


I guess the question is can you look past the mother and see your child?  If you can't then maybe you go on your way, but if you can imagine this child and love it inspite of it's mother then maybe you stick around and give being a dad a try.

It's a tough choice and a personal choice.

i will always love this child. Just because I can't see her or save her, doesn't mean that I won't love her.

I'm sure I will go through many of the same feelings a woman goes through over an abortion. It's just that not only will I have to deal with the feelings of loss and helplessness, I will have to pay this woman for the rest of my life.

I was wrecked when I moved here. I just don't think I'm in the right frame of mind to deal with any of this. I'm sure the child will understand when she gets older.

If she wants to live with me when she gets older... .she is more than welcome to. Life is long. I'm a sensitive man. That's why I'm so hurt.

I'm glad that there is a woman that can relate to me... .it just sucks that this woman's desire to mother a child will negatively impact me the most. I understand the maternal instinct.

I can even understand why she wants to keep the child.

Stoic

[Grey Kitty]

I'm sure the child will understand when she gets older.

If she wants to live with me when she gets older... .she is more than welcome to. Life is long. I'm a sensitive man. That's why I'm so hurt.

Sorry, you can't have it both ways.

If you don't spend any time and money supporting your daughter, she will never understand. She won't want to live with you when she gets older either.

Those things will only happen if you put effort into parallel parenting her.

[Harri]

Hi there Stoic.  I have been following this thread since it started.  First, let me tell you that I agree 100% that you were horribly used and that this is a very unfair outcome for you.  I also believe it is totally unfair how the system is stacked against the guy when a woman wants to keep a child and the man has to support the child but if the woman wants an abortion, she and she alone gets to make that choice.  As a female, I think I am in the minority with that opinion, but I want you to understand that I am not against *you* when you read the rest of this post.  In the interest of full disclosure, I am the adult child of a undiagnosed BPD mother and an equally-messed-up--pick-an-acronym father so that is definitely coloring my view here.  You have made a few comments throughout your posts that I am going to challenge.  I am not interested in changing your opinion or your decision.  I just want to point out several areas where I think you are making assumptions about your child and where there are a couple of inconsistencies in your statements.  Please realize my comments are not meant to pressure, harm you or place blame.  I expect nothing, but I do hope you will at least consider my comments.

I'm sure the child will understand when she gets older.

It is highly doubtful the child will understand when she gets older.  Read your own words in the next quote to see that even you do not believe this--->

i think the daughter will eventually benefit from having me as a biological father... .but I envision my role in her life being fairly minimal... . The BPD mom will have a long time to alienate me, and I can't really see her developing a healthy mindset with an untreated mom who has BPD... . I doubt this little girl would want me to suffer just so that I can take her for ice cream twice a month.

She may benefit, she may not.  The point is you have no way or predicting how *she* will feel about you.  Research has shown that children raised in a BPD environment, who have just one loving, validating person in their lives are not doomed to being a pwBPD as adults.  The Coping and Healing board is full of such people.  Yes, we have our issues and some of us have more BPD traits than others, but we were all saved.  If you ever want to get a taste of what your childs future will be like, spend some time reading over there.   If you do, just remember, those of us who post there are the ones who survived thanks to that one loving and validating person in our lives.  For some it was a teacher,  a pet (yes, really), a friends parent, a non-parent who worked on their own issues to be able to be a supportive parent... .

Let me explain: She told me she was infertile. She told me she took an emergency contraceptive that was good for a month. She told me she had no eggs, only cysts. She told me that I could stay with her to save money during a rough time. She held me down during sex, and I wouldve had to physically hurt her to get her off of me. I have learned helplessness and have been raped by a woman in an earlier relationship. (It does happen). I woke up when I was sleeping to oral sex, and she shoved it in to get my sperm.

Horrible.  Horrible.  Horrible.  Having been sexually abused/raped I can imagine how violated you must feel, though thankfully I never had to deal with getting pregnant as a result (see, my mother was the one who sexually abused me so getting pregnant was physiologically impossible... .thank god).

i don't know why I am trying to justify this to the group, but I feel like I was violated. I have cried about this.

You do not have to justify yourself to anyone, especially not in this group, so stop doing it   .  It sounds to me like you have already made your decision and that is fine.  I do support you.  Please realize though that if you move to another state, the government will be able to track you and garnish any wages or keep your tax refunds.  They can even haul your butt to jail for failure to pay child support.  If you choose to move to another country that is fine and probably the best choice for you at this point, however should you choose to establish contact later with your child (which you offered as a possibility a couple of times in this thread) the fact that you "walked off", refused to pay child support or have contact with the child will not help you should you decide that you want to be involved in her life.  Your reasons for doing so most likely will not matter.

Again, I am not trying to change your mind, I just want you to be clear on all the options and repurcussions as some of you statements are not consistent or within the realm of possibility given the choice you have all but made.  

I doubt this little girl would want me to suffer just so that I can take her for ice cream twice a month.

Actually, I would have loved for someone to take me out for an occasional ice-cream cone (or walk in the park or a movie, etc).  No strings.  No love required.  Just someone who actually wanted to be with me because of *me* and who could provide me even an hour of time away from the abuse and insanity.  So please stop attributing attitudes and beliefs to this child  .  Base your decision on what you feel and your beliefs rather than assigning them to someone who is not even born yet.  The fact is, you have no idea what kind of impact even a small random act will have on a person.  I understand your thought process here I just do not think it is realistic for the situation and I think it may cause *you* greater harm in the long run to believe such things.  The fact is, you have no way of knowing.  Predict/anticipate certain outcomes but do not etch them in stone.  

There are other things in your posts that are similar to what is written above.  I am not going to pick apart your entire thread.  Again, my goal here is not to change your mind or even to get you to agree with me.  I just want to make sure that you are basing any conclusions on what is going on right now for you rather than predicting a future or making assumptions about what your child will think or feel.  Having a realistic view of your situation is important so that you do not further victimize yourself.  You are dealing with enough right now so please do not add to it.  

You are in a painful situation and I do feel for you.  I do wish you the very best.  

[livednlearned]

I can always go back to my home country. Even though i havent been there since i was 5, i have lots of family there in the more affulent parts of the country and i don't think it would be too difficult to get a job and start my life over again. The more i think about it the more attaractive that sounds. I can be there and live on the beach, have my pick of beautiful women and be free or stay here and deal with non-stop drama from the BPDx, give her 1/3 of my salary for the next 14 years and see my kid once every two months. The thought of how much the BPDx would struggle financially without my money brings a smile to my face.

One thing missing from this is that you are not going to always be the same person you are right now. My experience with emotions is that the really difficult ones like grief, loss, shame, guilt -- they don't weaken and go away over time. They pool and thicken and start pushing through the pavement and concrete and start to show up like sewage. It takes a lot of hard work and emotional pain to deal with those feelings, so understandably you are not too eager to jump in and figure out what's happening in there.

But I'm older than you, I guess, and if there's anything I've learned, it's that this stuff doesn't go away no matter how fast or hard or long you run. You're better off dealing with this stuff when you're young. I wasted so many years trying to run and numb my feelings. Such a waste. I had a great life, my ex and I earning good salaries, enough that I could go back to school and get my Phd. Nice cars, a nice house blah blah blah. But the whole time miserable and empty on the inside. Sometimes I think my N/BPDx was put into my life to make me deal with all the backed-up emotions I've been running from and hiding all these years.

Anyway, I sense in you a lot of love for your D, although somewhere in this thread you profess to feel indifference. You've expressed a lot of anger, too, so maybe that will help you bury the painful feelings of love you feel for your D as you prepare to walk away from her. Don't mistake numb and anger for detachment and healing, though.

You might not be judged too harshly for walking away if you create a new life for yourself in another country. A father walking away from his child is a bit of a stereotype, it's the whole deadbeat dad thing and a big reason why the family court laws favor women like it does. You won't be the first father to skip out on your kid, that's for sure. I'm sure you'll find other men who got trapped just like you did, and they'll *get* you. Society and the laws informed by those norms don't seem to hold dads in very high regard, despite the evidence to the contrary if you follow the stories of dads here on the family law and coparenting threads. Fortunately, it's fathers like the guys here that do a lot to challenge that stereotype.

What would you do? I don't think that's a very difficult decisoin for most to make.

I'd like to hear some people's thoughts. We are on annonymous internet board. There is no need to cave to any sort of pressure of "i want to do the right thing" and all that other goodie-goodie nonsense.

For a lot of bio parents here, this isn't a rhetorical question. We stayed.

My whole experience raising a child with someone who is BPD helped rocket me out of the emotional immaturity that led me to get involved with someone mentally ill in the first place. If I skipped out on my kid, I would probably still be stuck in the same vacuum of anger and victimhood that you are, and that's a purgatory I am beyond grateful to leave behind.

[clydegriffith]

I can always go back to my home country. Even though i havent been there since i was 5, i have lots of family there in the more affulent parts of the country and i don't think it would be too difficult to get a job and start my life over again. The more i think about it the more attaractive that sounds. I can be there and live on the beach, have my pick of beautiful women and be free or stay here and deal with non-stop drama from the BPDx, give her 1/3 of my salary for the next 14 years and see my kid once every two months. The thought of how much the BPDx would struggle financially without my money brings a smile to my face.

One thing missing from this is that you are not going to always be the same person you are right now. My experience with emotions is that the really difficult ones like grief, loss, shame, guilt -- they don't weaken and go away over time. They pool and thicken and start pushing through the pavement and concrete and start to show up like sewage. It takes a lot of hard work and emotional pain to deal with those feelings, so understandably you are not too eager to jump in and figure out what's happening in there.

But I'm older than you, I guess, and if there's anything I've learned, it's that this stuff doesn't go away no matter how fast or hard or long you run. You're better off dealing with this stuff when you're young. I wasted so many years trying to run and numb my feelings. Such a waste. I had a great life, my ex and I earning good salaries, enough that I could go back to school and get my Phd. Nice cars, a nice house blah blah blah. But the whole time miserable and empty on the inside. Sometimes I think my N/BPDx was put into my life to make me deal with all the backed-up emotions I've been running from and hiding all these years.

Anyway, I sense in you a lot of love for your D, although somewhere in this thread you profess to feel indifference. You've expressed a lot of anger, too, so maybe that will help you bury the painful feelings of love you feel for your D as you prepare to walk away from her. Don't mistake numb and anger for detachment and healing, though.

You might not be judged too harshly for walking away if you create a new life for yourself in another country. A father walking away from his child is a bit of a stereotype, it's the whole deadbeat dad thing and a big reason why the family court laws favor women like it does. You won't be the first father to skip out on your kid, that's for sure. I'm sure you'll find other men who got trapped just like you did, and they'll *get* you. Society and the laws informed by those norms don't seem to hold dads in very high regard, despite the evidence to the contrary if you follow the stories of dads here on the family law and coparenting threads. Fortunately, it's fathers like the guys here that do a lot to challenge that stereotype.

What would you do? I don't think that's a very difficult decisoin for most to make.

I'd like to hear some people's thoughts. We are on annonymous internet board. There is no need to cave to any sort of pressure of "i want to do the right thing" and all that other goodie-goodie nonsense.

For a lot of bio parents here, this isn't a rhetorical question. We stayed.

My whole experience raising a child with someone who is BPD helped rocket me out of the emotional immaturity that led me to get involved with someone mentally ill in the first place. If I skipped out on my kid, I would probably still be stuck in the same vacuum of anger and victimhood that you are, and that's a purgatory I am beyond grateful to leave behind.

Very interesting quote there and when you put it that way, i think emotional immaturity on my part most certainly played a huge role in getting into a relationship with the BPD. Thanks for the advice.