So it's over... forever? or just again?

[AnnaK]

Ok guys. I was told "it's over between you and me".

I suppose, I am going to move to "detaching from wounds" board, temporarily at least.

What do I do? Obviously, no contact, what else.

Situation gets complicated that I need to find me a flat in India.

Or I can stay in Spain too.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[AnnaK]

Wait, wait, wait... .I may be still staying.

I have such a wonderful thing - logic.

The message came 2 days AFTER taking tickets and contained this text:

"You should not have taken tickets. I am planning to move to Lucknow forever"

Marker N 1: the word "forever". They always do everything "forever" - especially when they act on impulse.

Marker N 2: I've taken tickets this Saturday, of which I informed my SO. The "breaking news" came on Tuesday. The last 24 hours he might have been drunk, because he did not enter into Whatsapp. After sleeping it off, it's the best time to act on impulse, so I suppose this "decision" was taken about 2 minutes before he sent it to me.

I did not take tickets out of the blue, I have repeatedly hinted that I am searching for tickets. Any normal person, planning to move out, would scream: "hey, hey, wait, are you crazy? I am moving out this month, you'll have no place to live in Delhi!" - BEFORE taking tickets. After every hint on tickets. And definitely, after receiving the information that the ticket is confirmed.

Marker N 3: After questioning further, it turned out that no practical steps were taken towards moving out... .except for talking to me!

----

Bless it, the guy is professional at emotional games.

[EaglesJuju]

I see a lot of your indecision of with relationship status is reliant on him.

Have you had the time to focus on what you want? 

[AnnaK]

I am staying.

He keeps saying that he can't live with me. But then, he keeps saying so all the time we've been staying together

[AnnaK]

I did focus on what I want.

I am aware of all the obvious problems of our relationship (and of his personal problems too - like alcoholism), but while it is possible and not harmful for anyone, i will be "staying", because I enjoy what I am getting from this relationship (personal growth).

I enjoy his company physically, mentally and emotionally. I enjoy providing him emotional support, when I have time for it (psychology is my hobby), and to some point financial, according to the need and when I can afford it.

I am aware that he is hardly able to take responsibility for me - but I am self-sufficient in all respects except I need company.

Even so, I don't need good company every single day - I can make perfect use of all the free time that comes from his periods of avoidance.

I am trying to avoid acting as an enabler (both for BPD and for alcoholism).

I am diligently learning and following the recommendations for surviving a relationship with BPD (support network, taking timeouts etc.), as well as recommendations for surviving a relationship with an alcoholic (like al-anon's concepts), and with a potential batterer (that's another story, but I broke the cycle of abuse and i am not facing any physical abuse, and verbal abuse is diminishing, that says it all )

I keep learning new techniques for communicating with someone who has BPD.

If he breaks up (which he does on regular basis), I don't chase him, but I take some time to "heal" before I move on (it takes about 6 months). If he comes for a recycle within this time frame (he always does), I take him back like nothing happened.

With this adjustment, the cycle of breakups/makeups can be seen as one uninterrupted relationship... .at least from my side.

That's good enough.

I am neutral to the marriage plans (either way is okay), but if he happens to get married with another, i will leave.

I am not investigating how he spends his free time, but I demand that he does not "cheat" in front of me.

Logically I know there is a high "entry barrier" into serious relationship with this guy, that hardly any girl can overcome - but jealousy is an instinct and it breaks my peace of mind (to the point that I may go violent or embarrass him on purpose) .

I am quite sure, that within reason, my decision to stay is not harming anyone (although nobody is perfect and of course I make mistakes, that may sometimes trigger him etc.)

I guess it's good enough... .

[MaybeSo]

You appear to have a pretty realistic understanding of the realities and pros/cons of this relationship. If you enjoy his company but don't require everyday consistency, enjoy supporting w/out enabling, and are good at self sufficiency,  then you forge along for as long as that works for you, right?

Its the unrealistic expectations we have of broken people that cause so much turmoil and suffering.

[AnnaK]

You appear to have a pretty realistic understanding of the realities and pros/cons of this relationship. If you enjoy his company but don't require everyday consistency, enjoy supporting w/out enabling, and are good at self sufficiency,  then you forge along for as long as that works for you, right?

Its the unrealistic expectations we have of broken people that cause so much turmoil and suffering.

Yes. And I don't feel like he did not fulfil any of my expectations... .everything seems approximately the same as I expected a year ago, and not much different than I expected 2 years ago (I did not know about BPD, but I felt it's not going to be easy)

It's like when you get a cat, you should not complain the cat has claws... .although you might want to learn how to minimise the scratching... .

[notdownyet]

It's like when you get a cat, you should not complain the cat has claws... .although you might want to learn how to minimise the scratching... .

To continue the metaphor - let’s hope that the cat doesn't have rabies

[SlyQQ]

Just curious why do you get jealous only when he throws it in your face

[AnnaK]

Just curious why do you get jealous only when he throws it in your face

I had a lot of experience in life involving jealousy, and came to the conclusion, that 80% of it is imagination.

Besides, I have said, they are not real rivals - they don't know this is a cat, they think it's a rabbit

They get surprised when the rabbit turns out to be carnivorous and to have claws... .read the "detaching from wounds" board  

And while I don't generally approve he is "fooling" girls, I can't lock him in, right?  

[SlyQQ]

So if it happens in front of your face the girl becomes a real rival instead of an imaginary rival?

[AnnaK]

So if it happens in front of your face  the girl becomes a real rival instead of an imaginary rival?

No, but I get that characteristic "fight or flight" reaction.

I can't just throw it out of my head, it's there and it's very real (like my hands are shaking, my breath accelerates etc.)

I can suppress it or walk away for a while, but when cornered I may decide to fight... .hopefully, only verbally, although last time I went fist fighting on him. I could not walk away, because I had an international flight of 13 hrs to catch next day - and I was very angry that the drama was preventing me from focusing on packing.

[SlyQQ]

So he bought the girl home because you were leaving him

[AnnaK]

So he bought the girl home because you were leaving him

... .because I was leaving him according to his own request.

He kept saying "please don't come back to me", so after some time, I said "All right, you are right, I am not coming back!"

Then he woke up, read this message and bingo! Unexpected to everyone (girl including), he got the bright idea how to make me pay for it.

Somewhere I read this instruction for borderliners:

- if you have a really strong impulse to do something - DON'T. It will have drastic consequences.

- if you got a bright idea how to radically change your life forever - before taking any steps, talk to your therapist!

[SlyQQ]

Sounds normal it seems like you enjoy fighting with him in fact if you didnt you would drop him so do you want to reduce the amount of conflict control it or increase it or adjust it to your liking

[AnnaK]

Sounds normal it seems like you enjoy fighting with him in fact if you didnt you would drop him so do you want to reduce the amount of conflict control it or increase it or adjust it to your liking

Exactly. Actually, my other possible reactions to this situation were these:

- sit in my room, cry it out, don't sleep night, forget something useful in India and hold a grudge at him for long time (second best?)

- break up... .and again forget something useful in India, because the first day of breakup with borderliner, who can pack in a focused, determined way?

- pack urgently shaking from anger... .forget half the stuff because of emotions... .move to the hotel... .or at least have a ride to some hotel... .I did not know if they had any rooms... .spend some money to pay for hotel... .sleepless night in an impersonal hotel room, craving to see my bf... .leave India emotionally destroyed.

- go for a walk or jog... .for several hours, in the middle of the night... .not sure, it might have worked in a better country, but India at night is quite dangerous... .come, sleep, pack, leave. (maybe this is second best, if it were not for dangerous)

But again, it's not like I was in a position to sit and choose the reaction... .I was shaking, and hardly aware what I was doing. I started to pack, dropped packing, changed into jeans I don't know why, went to their room, started to talk to the girl... .and then bingo!

The way I reacted, I dropped it off at them both, got my relief and went to my room to pack, then sleep, period.

When I woke up at 4am and again started to hear voices in his room... .although he was utterly wasted and they were fighting, but how could I know through the wall? ... .I felt jealous, so I insisted on being present and sleeping in their room - because I have a flight, and the way it goes, I can't sleep.  I said - I did not invite trouble into this house, so I have the right for peaceful sleep.

And yes, that way I stopped feeling jealous and could sleep quite peacefully.

Ah yeah, of course, the way I acted, everyone was hurt and emotionally unhappy... .the lady, the gentleman... .they could not have any high-quality emotional intimacy, besides the gentleman was so embarrassed that he got drunk... .but I felt much better and I could have some sleep. I felt it was fair - I did not invite trouble on myself, but if the trouble happened, all 3 of us should share it in equal proportions.

It's much easier to handle trouble when equally shared between several people.

But the worst is that ALL other options include the part "forget something useful in India" - and THAT I could not allow. As a matter of fact, I could lose a lot of money or my JOB. So I chose the least damaging option of all.

If it were not for my flight, I could have taken the entire impact on myself, I don't know.

Most importantly, the way I reacted, it gave me strength to go through packing and then through flight relatively unharmed.

Besides it gave the lady a lot of things to think about. And hopefully the gentleman will think very well if he gets another impulse to "make me pay" or whatever is the reason he brought her

[SlyQQ]

I will have to think about that

[AnnaK]

Honestly... .Do you really imagine yourself packing and taking the flight, going across half the continent, possibly forever, while your significant other is having an affair in the room next to yours? You can hear them talking, he comes to the kitchen to prepare food for her, she cleans his room... .occasionally they come out both, making an impression of such a good couple... .

My nervous system is simply not good enough for something of the sort. And I could not leave house - I was cornered.

I had to pack, and I had to do whatever dependent on me, to pack all my devices, cords, laptop, hard drive... .medication I am regularly using, documents, tickets etc. etc... .not talking of clothes. I had to distribute my luggage between suitcase and hand luggage, check the weight of my suitcase, redistribute again... .anyway, you know how it gets when you go across half the continent for long time... .and carry your JOB with you!

The way I reacted, we all had a very intense and unforgettable night, but by the time I had to leave, she was removed crying from the house, the peace was essentially reinstalled, and he was there... .pretty much looking unhappy and ashamed (he never apologises, but it's in his eyes)

[SlyQQ]

I was not saying you did the wrong thing it seems your departure was succesfully concluded but the nature of these relationship tends to be you push harder an harder to get a bigger thrill until something snaps? Is that what worries you

[AnnaK]

I do not see it as I am pushing harder and harder at all. I am always trying to minimise the damage!

[AnnaK]

He kept and kept saying "please don't come back!", day after day, without giving any reasons (he mentioned something about not coming back to "this misery".

I agreed. Just that. I did not want to inflict hell onto my head, I just wanted to stop the arguments.

I did not do it right away, I tried to validate, I tried to figure out how he is feeling, I tried to explain that I don't mind to come back to "the misery". He told me that he feels like I am "disappearing in the black hole". I tried to validate, and tried to assure that I would come back, but he said he "does not trust me". All right. I am human. I was emotionally worn down (I was feeling rejected too! every time he would say "don't come back"!), so I agreed - all right, I'll do as you say, I won't come back.

[SlyQQ]

Even if you dont he probably will so you need to be able to defuse the situation if you have to you are not always sure you can and that worries you so you are looking for ideas?

[AnnaK]

Even if you dont he probably will so you need to be able to defuse the situation if you have to

you are not always sure you can and that worries you so you are looking for ideas?

I know that I have to defuse the situation and I am trying. But perfect I am not.

But at every moment, I was just seeking if not to diffuse the situation, then to minimise the damage.

When the girl came to our house, it was too late to defuse the situation. I was already emotionally trapped.

Although, on second thought, I think I could have just refused to open the latch and suggest them to go elsewhere.

But I did not manage to think about it.

[AnnaK]

Even if you dont he probably will so you need to be able to defuse the situation if you have to

you are not always sure you can and that worries you so you are looking for ideas?

I am quite sure I will never be able to ALWAYS defuse the situation.

But I am looking for techniques and trying my best, but it's the only thing I can possibly do, I have my limitations.

No, it does not worry me as such - nobody was killed in process, so everything can be fixed.

[SlyQQ]

I have found that you have to stop these things happening hours or days before they actually occur it is hard to do an you will no doubt on occasions inevitable fail as i have done its not easy

[SlyQQ]

Das va danya for now it is late here.

[Grey Kitty]

Ok guys. I was told "it's over between you and me".

Wait, wait, wait... .I may be still staying.

I have such a wonderful thing - logic.

... .

Marker N 3: After questioning further, it turned out that no practical steps were taken towards moving out... .except for talking to me!

----

Bless it, the guy is professional at emotional games.

I think you nailed it. Here's my take:

I hope you are OK having a half-long-distance relationship with him where he occasionally creates a dramastorm by either drinking himself into a stupor, or by bringing a girlfriend around in front of you, including occasional breakups that last hours, days, or weeks... .and a likelihood of having physical fights with him to resolve some of the drama... .

Because he's probably going to continue doing all these things!

If you can't accept this kind of relationship, you will most likely have to break it off permanently yourself. He has shown you that he's not likely to do that either.

[golden girl]

Ok guys. I was told "it's over between you and me".

I suppose, I am going to move to "detaching from wounds" board, temporarily at least.

What do I do? Obviously, no contact, what else.

Situation gets complicated that I need to find me a flat in India.

Or I can stay in Spain too.

[AnnaK]

Ok guys. I was told "it's over between you and me".

Wait, wait, wait... .I may be still staying.

I have such a wonderful thing - logic.

... .

Marker N 3: After questioning further, it turned out that no practical steps were taken towards moving out... .except for talking to me!

----

Bless it, the guy is professional at emotional games.

I think you nailed it. Here's my take:

I hope you are OK having a half-long-distance relationship with him where he occasionally creates a dramastorm by either drinking himself into a stupor, or by bringing a girlfriend around in front of you, including occasional breakups that last hours, days, or weeks... .and a likelihood of having physical fights with him to resolve some of the drama... .

Because he's probably going to continue doing all these things!

If you can't accept this kind of relationship, you will most likely have to break it off permanently yourself. He has shown you that he's not likely to do that either.

Point one. Further developments

As it turned out, it was not game. My departure coincided with end of our flat contract.

So while he was busy hating me (for leaving him, as he always does - although he rationalised otherwise), and did not believe I would come back, he reached the agreement with the owner to move out from the flat by the end of January. He is now going to move with parents "forever" (oh! again that infamous word! he always breaks up "forever"!)

It took him about a week.

Thing is - I am the one who is paying rent, and he can't afford it alone. So it was a rational step based on incorrect assumptions that he hates me "forever".

In theory it's still completely reversible. There is no line waiting to hire away that flat, we pay a high rent, so it's like that - agree, re-agree, again re-agree... .It will irritate the owner, but the owner is accustomed and values our rent.

Now that I've taken tickets, he has something to think about. He sounds way less hostile (so I was right - it was "hate you for leaving" kinda thing), although he is still saying that it's over between us and he is permanently moving in with his parents.

I decided to withdraw. It can be two ways - either he is keeping the flat or not.

In case he is keeping the flat, I'll come to India.

In case he is not living with me, I'll withdraw and let him taste the pleasures of living with parents. But I don't know a single person in 3 generations who would live with parents peacefully at this age. It never worked for him before either, but now after 2 years of break, he is again having romantic expectations about it... .the best is to let him try.

In case he ends the lease agreement I'll stay in Spain... .and let him taste the pleasures of living with parents [see above]... .it will be more complicated, because after he stops being romantic about parents, we'll need another flat... .but such is life.

-----

Point two.

With this guy, I am okay having half-long-distance. Come on, I need time to recover my resources! I knew it would be like this, so it was half-intentional, to set it up this way, at least in the beginning - time in, time out.

I am accustomed to periodic breakup, and I have inner compass, that tells me the most probable outcome of his actions - so it reduces my anxiety to bearable level. If now he is going to live with parents... .well, thinking it over, I expect him back by September

In summer I am changing my residence card, so I am grounded in Spain, if I don't go to India this March, I can't go to India before September.

I am relatively okay with "dramastorms". While I do not create them on my own, when I am exposed to them, they give me "food for thought". No, on my own I don't seek drama, proven by my living with other people. I never had any drama before.

With this guy, I suppose, dramastorms are going to occur, regardless whom he lives with.

They also occur regularly when he lives with parents - he is known to throw things, destroys money etc. etc.

His family is generally quite intense (all men seem to be prone to dramastorms), but he seems to be one of the most intense in family.

Myself, I am from the family, where grandmother was creating regular dramastorms (he seemed to have some hysterical traits and created 2-days dramas which ended up with calling ambulance like once in 2 weeks or so), and we lived together until I turned 8. It was terrible, but she raised me. This seems to be the root of my attraction to this guy.

Dramastorms, although painful, do not take me off track for too long. I evaluate the consequences, and if there are no dead bodies left on the scene, I know it's just emotional fluctuations.

My mother could have followed her mother's way, but my father is very good at being extremely calm, but extremely strong.

He is also very good at urgently going for a walk, when emotions raise above his personal tolerance threshold (very low).

My brother and me, after we've grown up, seem to have taken after him and learned to soothe our mother... .

My brother tends to explain her his emotions ("mother, whey you yell at me, I feel extremely anxious... .", while I set up the "emotional wall", like this:

"Mother, I am going to go to India"

"HOW COME YOU ARE GOING TO INDIA YOU ARE ABANDONING ME, YOU WILL DIE, IT'S UNSAFE... .blah"

"Mother, I understand your anxiety and I do not have any intention to abandon you, but I am going to India"... .etc.

And on and on it goes until she calms down and accepts the reality. My family calls me "stubborn" for that.

[AnnaK]

Interesting enough, he now painted his father white, and I am becoming blacker and blacker.

I heard this from other people: I am a heartless foreigner who does not understand indian reality, I "retain" him in Delhi, making his mind against family, and he loves his father more than any other person in the world, and the only way he can be happy is living in his family house. I should stop being cruel and understand that family is very important in India, and I should not be that cruel to the poor guy... .

Reality check: his father is emotionally distant man (possible NPD?), alcoholic in the past and religious fanatic in present. My uBPDbf drinks a lot, refuses to be vegetarian (both things violate his father's current religious views) and occasionally gets violent, for either of this his father throws him out of the house once in a couple of months  (because it's his father's house - and his father insists that everyone in the house abide by his father's rules... .normal). They stopped talking with father about two years ago. But now the old quarrel is partially forgotten, his father paid the repair of his car after he broke it with reckless driving... .they even talked a couple of times... .so his father is painted white again

I did suggest him to move house to his home city, but he does not want this (giving me excuses that I know are not entirely valid), because for some reason he prefers to maintain me separate from family.

So I probably should just step back and wait until he repaints everyone again.