Hello - Daughter of unBPD mother, trying to get a life

[Is This Normal]

Hello everyone!

I've been lurking a few days; this is my first post. I've been frequenting the OOTF board for a few weeks now and have found it very helpful. I decided to find a board that dealt more directly with BPD, as that is what I believe my mother has. So, here I am! And this place is awesome.

My mother is undiagnosed. My suspicion is based on my own experience of her behavior and the opinion of a former therapist who was very well versed on the subject of PDs. I am the only one in my FOO who believes this, to my knowledge. Everyone seems to agree she has problems, but it's always described as depression and anxiety. I've struggled with both of those things since I was a child, and I've never behaved as my mother does. So, I think something more is definitely going on.

I thought things were in a pretty good place with my FOO until recently. I had a disturbing phone conversation with my mother right before Thanksgiving and had what I now believe was an emotional flashback. My mother has been going through a depressive episode for the past 6 months. I have been getting pressure from her and my other family members to go see her. I was not eager to do this because of my reaction to the things she said. I opted not to see my FOO over the holidays. While I believe that was the right decision for my sanity, I'm still struggling with the guilt. I fear I'm an uncaring, "fair-weather" daughter because I can't be around her when she's mentally unwell. Well, she's never completely "well," but when she's like she's been in recent months, I find being around her unbearable. She has since improved due to finally agreeing to take a medication she'd been refusing. From a recent email, I get the impression she didn't want to take it because she wouldn't be able to consume alcohol, which hasn't helped me to feel as much sympathy for her as my other family members seem to feel. Nevertheless, I have agreed to go visit them in February. I am not looking forward to this visit. I fear a confrontation may occur as I'm feeling pretty fed up with her and with my FOO right now. At the same time, I want something to happen, as I'm so sick of pretending everything is "normal" just to keep the peace.

As for my past/upbringing, etc., it was not nearly as bad as so many stories I've heard. I was never physically abused. I was not unremittingly criticized or emotionally abused either. I think a huge part of my "damage" per se is the aftereffects of emotional incest. I guess that in itself is a type of emotional abuse. There was also my mother's volatility. Unlike others who've talked about never receiving love or nurturing from their parents, I received both. But I never knew when my mother would lose it. It was like having two mothers, and I was always keeping tabs on her trying to figure out if she was about to blow. There was a lot of triangulation in our family. My mother would try to get my brother and I to gang up on my father. She seemed to always be unhappy with him about something. I got so many confusing messages from her also. I would hear her haranguing him about how he wasn't doing enough as a father, but would then tell me that I was so lucky to have him as my father as hers was so awful. I'm sorry to say I didn't have the relationship I would like to have had with him because of siding with my mom. But I have come to see that that wasn't my fault, and it was their responsibility to model appropriate interrelational behavior. Of course they couldn't do that because they have no idea themselves what that is. My mother had to go into a substance abuse treatment center for a time when I was about 8 due to drug abuse. That was a frigthening experience. She had lost so much weight that she looked like she was going to die. No one seemed to be able to tell me what was really going on or calm my fears. My dad is pretty absent emotionally. I felt very alone  many times during my childhood. I was filled with confusing, forbidden emotions and no where to process them.

I've had a great deal of therapy and been involved in several recovery programs, all to my benefit. Still, I feel I'm living a rather confined life. I don't feel like I've ever truly spread my wings. I fear I never will. I'm 43 now. I try to tell myself I'm "only" 43, and there's still time to do some of the things I've always dreamed of, like living in a foreign country and becoming bilingual. I don't think I've ever truly individuated from my FOO. My mother seemed to be offended by many of my attempts to be independent. I think if she could have literally clipped my wings, she would have. In effect she has, emotionally. I am trying to believe, though, that I still have my wings. They are not clipped, even if it feels like it. Somehow I think many of you will understand.

If you've gotten this far, thanks for reading my novella! And thanks for being here. These boards are such a lifeline for me right now. I look forward to reading, learning, and growing with you guys.

-Is This Normal-

[Harri]

Hi Is This Normal!  Glad you found your way here.   I like it here because not only do people understand, support and validate but they also help me to focus on my own recovery while trying to understand BPD. 

Please do not underestimate how serious and damaging emotional incest is to a child/adult.  Also, the fact that sometimes your mother did act in loving and supportive ways only to turn around and act very differently can be even more bewildering.  Consistency when growing up is so important.  So as you said, your mother was/is volatile and you did not have the consistency you needed.  That is a lot to deal with and I am sorry you had to experience that.

If it helps any, I think you did the right thing in terms of staying away for the holidays.  I do understand the guilt though.  The thing is, pwBPD often make it impossible for us to act in the ways we would like to act without it causing serious damage to us. 

I fear a confrontation may occur as I'm feeling pretty fed up with her and with my FOO right now. At the same time, I want something to happen, as I'm so sick of pretending everything is "normal" just to keep the peace.

Well, you know your mother and the rest of your family so you sort of know how they will react if you do say/do something out of the norm right?  So you can anticipate various scenarios and plan for them.  Nothing may happen, but it is much easier to work through the fear when you have well practiced and planned out responses.  I do not know of a gentle way to say this so I am just going to say it;  if you are sick of pretending everything is okay, stop pretending.  I know it is not that easy but nothing is going to change for *you* if you keep doing the same old thing.  It sounds to me like you already know that so I am just confirming it for ya.     It is hard and scary especially when you have the whole peanut gallery supporting and enabling your mother.  Let them carry on in the same old roles they have always had if they want to.  You get to decide what to do for you. 

I love what you said about your wings. 

I am trying to believe, though, that I still have my wings. They are not clipped, even if it feels like it. Somehow I think many of you will understand.

You do still have your wings.  I can see them in your post here and specifically in your desire for 'something to happen'.  Change, as scary as it is, is wonderful too.

Keep posting as you need to and there are lots of people here who can help you as you get closer to the trip home in February.  I am glad posted.

[Turkish]

Hello ITN,

I'm also glad that you found your way to us 

Parentification, emotional incest. They're horribly damaging no matter what term we apply. pwBPD suffer from an empty self, and they form attachments to fill that void. It's hard enough for it to happen to adults in romantic relationships, but so much harder on children, making it harder to recover, but not impossible.

I used to blame the emotionally absent,.and often physically absent, father of my uBPDx for her BPD traits, but I came to realize that her mom made my Ex her confidante, and also put onto my Ex the burden of raising her younger siblings.

After being her for months,.I realized that my mother did something similar, though I have no siblings. Have you seen this article at the top of the board?

https://bpdfamily.com/content/was-part-your-childhood-deprived-emotional-incest

It must be so much harder having a FOO with others involved. You have a right to be you, however, and I hope you stick around.

Turkish

[estelithil]

Your upbringing sounds very much like mine. I wrote a bg long welcome post about the history with my mother should you wish to read it via my previous posts.

Try to let the guilt go - you need to look after yourself.

This really is a great place to lurk and to post. It has helped me immensely in recent months.

[Is This Normal]

Thank you so much Harri, Turkish, and Estelithil for the warm welcome. I am not surprised, as I have seen how caring people are on this site/board.

It is hard for me to acknowledge that any damage happened, as I constantly compare myself and my upbringing to that of others and see how much worse their's was. It doesn't help that I was constantly told by my mother about how awful her childhood was and that I should be so grateful and had nothing to complain about. While I'm sure my childhood was better than their's, I'm starting to wonder if it really was that much better. What I do know is that their families were very invalidating. But so is mine, just in a different way. Actually, maybe not that different. Lots of narcissism and narcissistic behavior.

I realize now that, in my mother's eyes, I was lucky because she felt she was being the mother to me that her narcissistic mother was not to her. But our relationship was all about her needs, hence the enmeshment and emotional incest, with a healthy smattering of emotional abuse when she was out of sorts, and I wasn't complying with her demands - according to her. And being a witness to what I now realize was abusive behavior by her towards my father.

I often see my mother as a giant amoeba, constantly trying to engulf me and incorporate me into her. I have put a stop to that, and now, according to her, I "hate her." And honestly, sometimes I do. Oh well, at least I can be honest with myself now about how I really feel.

I am going to do some serious journaling before the February trip to get in touch with where I'm at and maybe come up with some talking points and rehearsed replies for what I'm anticipating will be said while I'm there. I won't spend any more time than I need to, though. I'm sick to death of obsessing about her and my FOO. I need to be focusing on my own life and living it. Thanks for being here and giving me permission to do just that!

-ITN-

[Finding Courage]

Emotional incest is so toxic and abusive, but often goes overlooked.  But it is so harmful because it violates boundaries and is a parent using a child for their own gain.  For me the violation feels the same as sexual abuse, but almost worse because FOO and others don't get how bad it is. 

It took me a long time to truly put my needs first, even if that hurts her.  It is still not my job to be her caretaker.  And she abused that natural attachment children have for their parents.  That cannot be repaired now. 

Take care and good luck.

[Harri]

Hi again ITN.   

I am going to do some serious journaling before the February trip to get in touch with where I'm at and maybe come up with some talking points and rehearsed replies for what I'm anticipating will be said while I'm there. I won't spend any more time than I need to, though. I'm sick to death of obsessing about her and my FOO. I need to be focusing on my own life and living it. Thanks for being here and giving me permission to do just that!

I really like what you wrote here about not spending more time that necessary thinking about your mother and FOO.  Keep that focus!

It is always interesting to me that many parents seem to think that because they are not like their parents it automatically means they are good parents.  Not so much right? 

It sounds like you had quite a lot of emotional incest going on there and I am glad you are able to see it for what it is.  It is the emotional/mind games that are so hard to see and define as abuse and heal from. 

I often see my mother as a giant amoeba, constantly trying to engulf me and incorporate me into her. I have put a stop to that, and now, according to her, I "hate her." And honestly, sometimes I do. Oh well, at least I can be honest with myself now about how I really feel.

What a great description.  Your feelings about her are just feelings and are I think totally understandable.  If you don't mind sharing, how were you able to stop her from engulfing you?  With mine it was quite the battle and involved a lot of yelling... .mostly from me 

[Is This Normal]

Finding Courage - Thank you so much for the validation and support. I think much if not most of what I experienced with my FOO was what you would call covert abuse. So, yes, it took me a loong time to see it for what it was. I still struggle with it. And my FOO, as I said before, is always ready to remind me of the more overt abuse they suffered at the hands of their families to put me back in my place. Not that I've really confronted them with it. I've said very, very little, because I knew what the response would be - not good. Not good at all. The most in your face thing I've done with them is go into extended therapy and lessen my contact with them. That's it. And both things are perceived, at least on my mom's end, as some kind of huge betrayal.

I think that kind of goes toward an answer to your question, Harri. And I don't mind sharing at all. In fact, I worry about oversharing and wearing out my welcome! Perhaps you have experienced that as well, when you finally, FINALLY, find people who understand what you're going through and have been there themselves. In my case, I want to spew volumes. At the same time, I'm terrified of going too far and violating other folk's boundaries. It's like having had my own internal village repeatedly raped and pillaged makes me very leery of inadvertently doing the same to anyone else. I don't ever want to make anyone else feel the way I've felt.

Anyway, the way I've tried to stop what I perceived as engulfment is basically lowering my contact with her and practising "medium chill." At least that's what they call it over at OOTF. Not yet sure about here. I'll learn! So, I don't tell my family very much in the way of personal detail. I think my version of "medium chill" is still relatively forthcoming. But that's not how my mom sees it. When I was a child/teen/young adult, I would tell her everything, with a capital E. And she would tell me all kinds of things that she shouldn't. Now, I just give the broadest sketch of my life at any given time and I don't share anything about problems or anything that would make me feel vulnerable. And since I don't call much, she doesn't have the opportunity to tell me much either. The weird thing is, she never calls me. Unlike other enmeshed parents who call and email their offspring constantly, I don't hear from my folks unless I initiate the contact. While I'm grateful they're not harassing me in that way, it makes it confusing. I would like a more reciprocol arrangement, where we call each other, but they apparently expect me to contact them and become angry when I don't do it as often as they think I ought to or as often as they would like me to. Huh? Sometimes I think my mom sees herself as a queen to whom I should regularly be paying tribute. For her to call me, she would be lowering herself. I think she would say that she's trying not to be intrusive. But I've told her she can call me. That never seems to register.

As for yelling? Oh hell no! That's one of the ways I've come to see that our relationship is off balance. While I realize yelling is not an optimal communication strategy, people do do it in relationships. I can't recall a single time that I've actually raised my voice to my parents, either one. But especially not my mother. She's yelled at me plenty, but not the other waey around. She would probably say differently, but her version of my yelling was any sign that I wasn't completely happy and pleased with anything and everything she said or did. Since I've seen what she can be like when she's angry, I wouldn't even begin to go there. I figure she'd take out a verbal bazooka and obliterate me. Now I've never actually tried it, so that might be an unfair or inaccurate prediction. But I'm coming to think it's pretty accurate, and that I learned early on to lay low and step lightly if I didn't want to get "obliterated."

So, wow, this is a lot. Sorry! At this point, while I don't think I'm going to actually start yelling at her, I do think I'm going to have to be more clipped and firmer with her. Which she will perceive as me yelling and being "mean." And I'm just going to have to let that go. I tried to do it her way, and it almost killed me (depression and suicidal thinking). Now when those crop up, it's because I'm defying her and feel like I'm a bad person. Well, I have strong spiritual beliefs, and I've never gotten the message from God that He/She/It wants me to die. So, my plan for now is to continue to figure out what I want and do that and let the chips fall where they may. And if that makes me a bad person, so be it. Nyah! !

-ITN-

[Harri]

Hi ITN. 

I worry about oversharing and wearing out my welcome! Perhaps you have experienced that as well, when you finally, FINALLY, find people who understand what you're going through and have been there themselves. In my case, I want to spew volumes. At the same time, I'm terrified of going too far and violating other folk's boundaries. It's like having had my own internal village repeatedly raped and pillaged makes me very leery of inadvertently doing the same to anyone else. I don't ever want to make anyone else feel the way I've felt.

I do understand what you mean.  It does feel good to finally find a group who gets you right off the bat.  There is no raping and pillaging here.  There is a whole lot of getting stuff out of our system, focusing on the issues and trying to work them through so write away and keep writing until you get it all out.  I think you can see that people are supportive and compassionate here and will, when needed, give you a nudge towards something that can help you work things through or help you to focus.  So why not take a chance and trust that we can take care of our own village?  That is part of what I am here to learn to do better and I would not be surprised if there are a few others practicing that as well.  If it helps any, I frequently write long rambling posts that are all over the place and no one has chased after me with a pitch fork yet!   

I have heard of the medium chill technique and I think I have seen it mentioned on this site as well.  Do you feel comfortable with your level of contact with them, including the frequency of your phone calls?  Disregard what your mother thinks or feels, how do you feel?  I agree with you when you say it seems like your mother thinks she is the queen to be catered to.  It must make it even more difficult to call her (or am I assuming here?).  I think the parents who could be labeled as waif or hermits would be more apt to do the endless calls and texts rather than the queens.  Have you read the different descriptions of the BPD mothers? 

So, wow, this is a lot. Sorry! At this point, while I don't think I'm going to actually start yelling at her, I do think I'm going to have to be more clipped and firmer with her. Which she will perceive as me yelling and being "mean." And I'm just going to have to let that go. I tried to do it her way, and it almost killed me (depression and suicidal thinking). Now when those crop up, it's because I'm defying her and feel like I'm a bad person. Well, I have strong spiritual beliefs, and I've never gotten the message from God that He/She/It wants me to die. So, my plan for now is to continue to figure out what I want and do that and let the chips fall where they may. And if that makes me a bad person, so be it. Nyah! !

I like your spirit!    I would never suggest anyone yell at someone but if it happens it happens right?  I think your plan to not yell but to be firmer is excellent.  To state the obvious, you have to feel okay with it.  I am very glad you are able to identify the source of your depression and suicidal thoughts though I am sorry you have them.  Do you have them frequently?  Your mom can think what ever she thinks but she does not get to define you or your reality.   It is so hard though when you know what they are thinking and feeling and no matter what you do or say it will not be heard or understood.  That can also be liberating too though. 

I think you have done very well in terms of breaking away from your family and I hope you continue to work on this.  Most of all though, I hope you keep posting here and feel comfortable enough to post a novel if you wish.   

[Is This Normal]

Harri,

Thanks so much for your support! I haven't noticed any pitchforks yet, either! Actually, my mom is the only pitchfork-wielder that I've really come across so far. I guess I should count myself lucky. It's hard, though, when it's your mom!

I don't know how to do quote boxes yet, but what you were saying about how hard it is knowing that what you say will never be heard by the person with BPD is so true. I was doing a meditation the other day, sort of a visualization, and I kept seeing myself sending love to my family and them responding with confusion and drama. It's like a radio signal that keeps getting scrambled. It doesn't matter how clear I think my message is, those on the receiving end don't have the means to process it, and it gets all garbled. Not only that, it seems like it gets translated in the most negative way possible.

Anyway, you asked about the suicidal thoughts. I don't get them very often anymore at all, thank goodness. The most recent episode was after a phone call I had with my mom right before Thanksgiving. It was extremely negative, and as it had been a long time since she had talked to me in that way, it really caught me off guard. I went to a very bad place in my head for a while. Good thing is, I've had a lot of recovery, and even at my worst, I had some detachment from it, knew it wasn't real and that I would come out the other side. Which I did - whew!

As for contact, sometimes I think I wouldn't mind more contact, but, again, I would like a reciprocal arrangement where they call me once in a while, and it's not just on me to call them. This past year I didn't communicate with them a great deal, but in retrospect, I think it was because I had lost my cat to cancer at the beginning of the year. It was not a pleasant experience, and her death was a bit traumatic for us both. I was just going through the motions for a good bit of that year, and didn't talk to many people at all, not just my family. I just get frustrated as I don't feel like I ever really get the benefit of the doubt with them. My mom has been supportive and was very kind, sending me money and commiserating with what I was going through. We had a few good convo's. later in the year. Then I talk to her right before the holidays, and it's like none of that happened, and she's angry and disappointed in me. And I'mnot even sure exactly why.

I feel guilty even complaining about it. So many on here and on OOTF don't get any support from their families. More like relentless abuse. that's not been my experience. Maybe I'm downplaying some of it. My therapist really had to goad me into admitting that what my parents did was problematic. I do feel pretty safe in saying that both of my parents are mentally ill, have limitations as a result. Also that I have my own mental illness to deal with. And putting all that together is very difficult. Sometimes it feels like a recipe for disaster. Oh well. Thanks for listening. I'm going to keep reading, and I look forward to getting to know more of your story as well!

-ITN-

[Harri]

Hello.     (to quote things, I highlight the text I want and then copy and paste it in the reply box.  Then I highlight it again and click on the 'insert quote' button above (the second to last one in the second row.  Just hover your cursor over the different buttons to read them).  Use the same method to do italics, bold, etc. 

It doesn't matter how clear I think my message is, those on the receiving end don't have the means to process it, and it gets all garbled. Not only that, it seems like it gets translated in the most negative way possible.

What do you think drives you to keep trying?  Or am I over interpreting?

It was extremely negative, and as it had been a long time since she had talked to me in that way, it really caught me off guard. I went to a very bad place in my head for a while. Good thing is, I've had a lot of recovery, and even at my worst, I had some detachment from it, knew it wasn't real and that I would come out the other side. Which I did - whew!

Isn't amazing how we can get comfortable when things are good, forgetting everything?  Good for you for holding onto the fact that that state would pass.  Not fighting it and just trusting that it will pass is hard.  I sometimes get impatient and wish I could use a cattle prod to get moving through a bit faster.  LOL I get like that a lot, wanting to speed through things.  Speed meditation, speed relaxation... .    It is such a feat to just sit with the feelings and let them pass.

I am sorry you lost your friend and companion.  Pets are so important and it is such a loss when they are gone.  Have you started talking more to other people (not just your parents?)?  I know it is hard when you are grieving, but reaching out is so important.  I isolate a lot and am no one to talk or lecture about it, but I don't think it serves us well.

I just get frustrated as I don't feel like I ever really get the benefit of the doubt with them. My mom has been supportive and was very kind, sending me money and commiserating with what I was going through. We had a few good convo's. later in the year. Then I talk to her right before the holidays, and it's like none of that happened, and she's angry and disappointed in me. And I'mnot even sure exactly why.

That *is* frustrating especially when the responsibility is on you to keep the contact going only to have them turn on you or take the worst possible interpretation.  I can understand why it was confusing for her to go from being attentive and caring to being angry with you.  Disappointment always bothered me more than anger... .not sure why.  If /when that happens in the future, would you ever consider asking her why she is talking to you like that?  Though it may set you up to listening to a whole list of perceived slights and other stuff (?), it might help you to set the stage to tell her to stop talking to you like that?  Would you ever say something like "I don't know why you are upset with me but I am not comfortable with you talking to me like that.  Please stop."... .or is that a really bad idea?

ITN, it is so easy to compare situations and find others that seem worse but in reality, your situation is not a good one, you were abused emotionally (IMO, the most confusing and damaging kind of abuse) and the constant alertness to keep up with the mood changes is exhausting to say the least.  Besides, I don't read anything you have written as you complaining even though i think there are a least a couple of things worth complaining about in your situation!    Downplaying what you experienced is not at all healthy.  It is hard to sort things out and I get that.  Just keep reading and posting like you said. 

[Is This Normal]

Harri,

What do you think drives you to keep trying?  Or am I over interpreting?

Thanks for the quoting instructions! I don't think you're overinterpreting at all. I don't think I try nearly as hard as I used to. As I said in a previous post, I use medium chill with them and try to keep things light. Perhaps, though, I still haven't really accepted them as they are, thus the need to continue to try to communicate as one would with a "normie." Kind of like they do with me, really. My mom keeps trying to get me to be like the old me, and fails each time. A big part of it is guilt and beliefs about how I "should" ineract with my family. Believe me, I'm taking a long hard look at those!

I isolate a lot and am no one to talk or lecture about it, but I don't think it serves us well.

Ha! I'm the same way about this - ":)o as I say, not as I do! Stop isolating friend, reach out!" All this said from under my covers!  Nevertheless, I think I am finally ready to take your (and my) advice. I'm getting a little sick of myself, honestly!

As for asking questions of my mother like the one's you described, I have mixed feelings about it. They're perfectly good questions. I think I have to decide how much of an attempt I want to make, or do I just need to focus on boundaries and cutting her off if she's being really negative. Sometimes I imagine having a therapy session with her (if not many). If I decide to go back into therapy, then that could be a possibility. I think that's the only way I could really feel safe in communicating with her beyond the surface.

Thank you for validating my experience. I think I have to use the of asking myself what I would say to a friend who was telling me my story as if it was their own. I know what I would say, and it wouldn't be, "Stop complaining. It wasn't that bad. You have no right to complain, etc." It's a parental tape that plays in my head. As I'm sure you know, those are hard to eradicate!

-ITN-

[Turkish]

I think I have to use the of asking myself what I would say to a friend who was telling me my story as if it was their own. I know what I would say, and it wouldn't be, "Stop complaining. It wasn't that bad. You have no right to complain, etc." It's a parental tape that plays in my head. As I'm sure you know, those are hard to eradicate!

This is what we Leavers experience. For example, about my Ex: "She's horrible. You'll find someone better. You're better off without her. Now you're free."

Perhaps all of those things are true, but they don't validate my feelings. This is your family, who surrounded you as you grew up and formed your personality. So much harder to see it clearly. As well meaning as people can be, their words can often cause more harm. Good for you for being aware of it.

[Is This Normal]

Turkish,

Thank you. I'm happy to report that no one, other than my parents, has actually ever said to me "stop complaining." Granted, I'm very selective about what I share with whom. The stop complaining meme comes strictly from my parents, and it was very effective, as that tape plays in my head constantly.

"She's horrible. You'll find someone better. You're better off without her. Now you're free."

I think I may have been "that guy" before, though. Meaning the well-meaning friend who says such things in the guise of helping said friend cope with a loss. I think by saying such words, folks think they're helping you to move more quickly through your pain. Or maybe even trying to get you to avoid or deny it, since that's the only coping mechanism many of us have learned. After much therapy, though, I've learned to sit with my feelings and to let others sit with theirs. And sit with them, if I feel ok with it. It takes as long as it takes, and there are no shortcuts. At least, I don't think so. God knows, I've looked high and low!

Anyway, thank you for "sitting" with me as I try to process some unsavory stuff.

-ITN-

[Trollvaaken]

I feel guilty even complaining about it. So many on here and on OOTF don't get any support from their families. More like relentless abuse. that's not been my experience. Maybe I'm downplaying some of it. My therapist really had to goad me into admitting that what my parents did was problematic. I do feel pretty safe in saying that both of my parents are mentally ill, have limitations as a result. Also that I have my own mental illness to deal with. And putting all that together is very difficult. Sometimes it feels like a recipe for disaster. Oh well. Thanks for listening. I'm going to keep reading, and I look forward to getting to know more of your story as well!

-ITN-

To be honest, I could quote each one of your posts in this thread. This is practically the same experience I have had with my mother, with whom I am also on medium chill.

My boyfriend is the one who convinced me that my relationship with my mother was unhealthy. Unfortunately, I have been seeing a psychologist at the university, but I only had a limited amount of sessions and I found that my therapist really wasn't familiar with this issue. This forum has been much more helpful.

Other than problems with my mother, my boyfriend was diagnosed with dysthymia last year. He is doing much better, but during that time, I wasn't feeling well mentally myself, but whenever I thought something was wrong and about asking for help another voice came in my mind scolding me and reminding me that other people have it much worse and that I should just toughen up and get over it.

Anyway, I am doing much better now, but mainly because I realised that I shouldn't focus so much on my mother, but on myself and what I can do to make my life better first and foremost. The most challenging thing was for me to validate my own experiences and feelings. I still have difficulties understanding what I feel, if I am right to feel them and or let alone even feel anything.

Spending time with my mother can leave me feeling empty, like she has sucked my identity out of me.

I think it is hard for people to understand those who have lived with someone who has BPD because there are so many nuances and seen individually, they don't seem like much sometimes, but put together you can make out a pattern of behaviour.

[Is This Normal]

Trollvaaken,

Thanks so much for sharing a bit of your own story. I am glad that you are doing better, and you are so right about focusing on yourself. It's funny, we say that to our students all the time - "focus on yourself" (I work at a school), and it really is the solution to so many troubles. Also, it's really hard because, as you were essentially saying, we have been conditioned to do anything but.

I too feel completely drained after interacting with my mother. That expression "emotional vampire" is an apt label for people suffering from this disorder. I've even been working on strengthening my boundaries on an energetic level - auras, chakras, all that woo-woo stuff. I'll do just about anything if there's a remote chance it might help!

I think it is hard for people to understand those who have lived with someone who has BPD because there are so many nuances and seen individually, they don't seem like much sometimes, but put together you can make out a pattern of behaviour.

Indeed. That is why this board and others like it are such a blessing. Talking to others who understand what you're going through is so invaluable, even better, for me, than speaking with a therapist, though that is very important also.

I hope you continue to feel better and share your thoughts on this board. I look forward to hearing more from you and about you. 

-ITN-

[Panda39]

A big part of it is guilt and beliefs about how I "should" ineract with my family. Believe me, I'm taking a long hard look at those!

This resonated with me I used to live with all these rigid rules... .rules that I thought my mother wanted me to live by - that I thought I should live by... .so I did in an attempt to gain her approval. 

So I got married to the first man to ask me because at 26 I "should" be getting married, I didn't ask for financial help when I needed it because I was an adult and "should" be independent so I stayed married for 15 years longer than I should have because I didn't have the financial where with all to leave, I sacrificed my own needs because I "should" be an unselfish person.

I had all kinds of extreme thinking going on... .black and white . I would actually have occasional temper tantrums when what I believed I "should" do came into conflict with what I "wanted" to do.

I suggest looking at what your values are?  How do you want to live your life? Not what someone else has told you is the way you must live your life. 

I can now see things that are "gray" I can be selfish sometimes, I can ask for help when I need it, and I can be more flexible.

Don't let the FOG (fear, obligation & guilt) or like in my case the desire for validation and approval of your mom define your personal values.

[Is This Normal]

Panda39,

I suggest looking at what your values are?  How do you want to live your life? Not what someone else has told you is the way you must live your life.

It's so strange, I thought I had this all figured out, and now I realize I've hardly begun! But I'm excited in a way. I know that sorting this out for myself will lead to tremendous growth and forward movement. At least I hope so.

One thing that I have become aware of is that I'm very focused on personal growth and my own inner world. I do feel like I've grown and continue to grow, and when I just look at myself and don't compare, I'm very pleased with where I'm at. At such times, I feel like I could die happy in the knowledge that I'd done the best I could and made progress in this life.

When I compare myself to others, however, I seem to come up very, very short. I don't have a lot to show outwardly for this supposed growth. Perhaps I will begin to manifest more externally as time goes on. But I believe, rightly or wrongly, that my lack of external achievement is one of the things that disappoints my parents. My life thus far has not involved high-profile work or endeavors of any kind, marriage, or children. I find myself thinking that they are disappointed in me, that I have failed to yield a sufficient return on their investment. These thoughts were given ammunition due to some things my mother said to me during a recent conversation. Well, more like a rambling, depressive, is that all there is? monologue from my mother that I passively listened to.

I guess I'm coming to that point where I have to really decide - am I going to keep "comparing and despairing," letting my parent(s)' disappointments get to me? (if that's what they even are) Or can I focus on myself and keep marching to my own drummer, even if I have nothing outwardly to show for it. I think I know what the answer is. It's lonely going sometimes. But I do have support. This board is wonderful. And I do have a developing relationship with a Higher Power that's giving me a lot of serenity and confidence.

-ITN-

[Panda39]

It's so strange, I thought I had this all figured out, and now I realize I've hardly begun! But I'm excited in a way. I know that sorting this out for myself will lead to tremendous growth and forward movement. At least I hope so.

One thing that I have become aware of is that I'm very focused on personal growth and my own inner world. I do feel like I've grown and continue to grow, and when I just look at myself and don't compare, I'm very pleased with where I'm at. At such times, I feel like I could die happy in the knowledge that I'd done the best I could and made progress in this life.

I'm in the same kind of place.  5 years ago I had kind of a breakdown that became a series of breakthroughs and I've kept going with my own journey of self-discovery. Figuring out who my authentic self is? Eliminating behaviors and beliefs that aren't me and I'm also learning to better express myself and ask for what I need. I also only invite the people into my life that treat me the way I deserve. I've come to a place of "radical acceptance" when it comes to my mom (she's not BPD but we have a difficult relationship) I have finally accepted that she is who she is and will never be who I want her to be just as I will never be what she wants me to be.  Coming from this place has really helped me to not take things she says personally, it's about her not about me.

I originally started posting on this site because my SO has an uBPDxw and in all my posts I recognized that I have a life-long pattern of rescuing and co-dependence that I am trying to understand and correct.   

When I compare myself to others, however, I seem to come up very, very short. I don't have a lot to show outwardly for this supposed growth. Perhaps I will begin to manifest more externally as time goes on. But I believe, rightly or wrongly, that my lack of external achievement is one of the things that disappoints my parents. My life thus far has not involved high-profile work or endeavors of any kind, marriage, or children. I find myself thinking that they are disappointed in me, that I have failed to yield a sufficient return on their investment. These thoughts were given ammunition due to some things my mother said to me during a recent conversation. Well, more like a rambling, depressive, is that all there is? monologue from my mother that I passively listened to.

But what do you want?  I've never been an ambitious person I've always wanted "enough" and never had the drive to have it "all".  My passion is making art but even making art is a personal and internal thing for me, it's about the process, the idea, the creating and the doing it's not about fame.  Not everyone has to "live large" contentment can be found "living small". 

I guess I'm coming to that point where I have to really decide - am I going to keep "comparing and despairing," letting my parent(s)' disappointments get to me? (if that's what they even are) Or can I focus on myself and keep marching to my own drummer, even if I have nothing outwardly to show for it. I think I know what the answer is. It's lonely going sometimes. But I do have support. This board is wonderful. And I do have a developing relationship with a Higher Power that's giving me a lot of serenity and confidence.

I think the key is to keep working on ourselves after all we can only change ourselves we can't change anyone else.    I think as you work on you that you will begin to bloom in new ways too and those changes you make on the inside will bring changes in your life on the outside.

[scarlettbegonia]

Wow - is this normal - I feel like we had a very similar childhood, and I just learned what emotional incest is and realized that I experienced the same. My mom too always and still does talk about how awful her upbringing was.

The telling my mom everything part was me growing up too. My mom was a "best friend" which also meant we could talk about anything best friends talked about - definitely too much for an adolescent. She was dependent on me for emotional support that you would get from a best friend. I felt very confined and restricted, really scared to be a kid or a teenager. I feel fortunate though that somehow I found the strength to spread my wings when I turned 18 and left for college and never really turned back from spreading those wings. It crushed my mother and still does. I constantly hear about how me leaving the house ruined her life - even almost 20 years later. Honestly, I think part of my strength was witnessing the dysfunctional life of my parents and wanting to do everything I can to avoid that. They were constantly talking about their dreams but always pushing them off to retirement and now they are retired and have severe physical/financial issues so retirement is just miserable. My outlook, why wait to spread my wings? You never know what tomorrow brings. Yes, I have guilt and it's very frustrating hearing from my mother how awful I am for leaving her.

I think during the times I was spreading my wings though I was pushing off a lot of unresolved things from my family/mother and it feels like they are so deep and occasionally bubble up and I just push them back down - of course at the expense of my own mental state (anxiety and depression). We are moving closer to my family this summer to be available to help them with medical issues. I haven't lived in the same city as them for 19 years. I almost feel like a bird that went off exploring the world and returning now to its coop. I also feel this is the right thing to do because I feel now my wings are strong.

I love the concept of medium chill and I practice that too now, I wonder if you wouldn't mind sharing more about your recovery/therapy experiences through the years. I have seen therapists regularly for the past several years, but we only ever skim the surface about the issues with my mom, we mainly focus on my anxiety and how it impacts things like my stress levels, phobias, etc. I want help with my mom though in more depth especially as we look to move closer and she be in my life more, and also my daughter's life more. I'm reading the boundaries stuff and will be setting some up for myself and family. I feel like I need to somehow let the deep down stuff, especially sadness and grief, out and that is where I am currently struggling.

Thanks for posting, I have never had people that understood what I go through. I also don't want to feel like I'm burdening others with my problems so they mainly just stay inside.