MAJOR dysreg this morning...

[maxsterling]

... .and I don't know why.  We had a good evening yesterday.  This morning I woke up to her dysregulating.  By the time I had opened my eyes, she was externally about a level 5, and probably internally already at 10.  I think it has to do with her talking to my mother yesterday, but according to what I know about BPD, what my mom said or did probably was only a small trigger that unleashed something much deeper.  My guess it is the same abandonment/feeling like she is unimportant feelings.  Yesterday, after she talked with my mom, I validated, told her that had to be an awkward and difficult conversation, and that I would handle it and talk to my mom.  I reminded her that she is free to set the boundary with my mom wherever she needs to, and she can put all dealings with my family on me.  She seemed calm and logical about that.

This morning, it all bubbled to the surface.  First, with her waking me up to make some kind of a comment regarding clothing that I had hung to dry.  After she took a shower is when the venting about my mother began.  I let her vent, did my best to not take it personally or JADE, validated, hugged her, and thought we could move on.  10 minutes later, it was back, with greater insults about my mom, my dad, my whole family, and then me.  I tried to exit the conversation several times, she would not stop (couldn't leave the house without getting dressed).  It lasted 10 minutes with her hurling some of the most hurtful insults I have encountered (you know, the kind that really dig at your core).  I told her to go to her AA meeting, and we can discuss these important issues later.  She kept continuing, I told her that when she gets home tonight I needed to do something to take care of myself than take our scheduled dance lesson (attempt at a boundary - if she is screaming insults at me, no way that I am going to feel like taking a dance lesson with her).  That set her off more, to the tune of slamming doors and threats of divorce.

I'm a mess right now.  Just a mess, and I need time to collect myself.  She claims she is "blocking" all text messages from me today (probably a good thing for me, because I don't need to hear what she has to say).  I'm thinking of taking the day off work to take care of myself and do something fun.  Good idea?

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[maxsterling]

Just thinking about it for a short few minutes - there's no way I can sit at work today and be productive with the anticipation of coming home and facing this again.  Especially if she decides to not block me and send me a barrage of messages today.

So I think I will take the day off.  maybe spend an hour or two at the library (been meaning to get there for awhile), then off to a bookstore where I wanted to go, then to another store, and maybe a short hike.  I

[formflier]

Just thinking about it for a short few minutes - there's no way I can sit at work today and be productive with the anticipation of coming home and facing this again.  Especially if she decides to not block me and send me a barrage of messages today.

So I think I will take the day off.  maybe spend an hour or two at the library (been meaning to get there for awhile), then off to a bookstore where I wanted to go, then to another store, and maybe a short hike.  I

Max,

Take care of yourself!

But... .also... .what about next time.

How can you boundary this earlier... .so you can get on with a normal life and go to work.

Just a suggestion:  Leave house earlier... .in PJs if you have to ... .back in 10 minutes... .try to get dressed and leave for today.

Question:  Would you have been better off not hearing most of this... .this morning?

Is she better off because you stayed and heard it?

[formflier]

     

Hang in there... .

[Rapt Reader]

I told her to go to her AA meeting, and we can discuss these important issues later.  She kept continuing, I told her that when she gets home tonight I needed to do something to take care of myself than take our scheduled dance lesson (attempt at a boundary - if she is screaming insults at me, no way that I am going to feel like taking a dance lesson with her).  That set her off more, to the tune of slamming doors and threats of divorce.

In the state she was in, I'm wondering if she took this advice (and then your "boundary-setting" as condescending and/or as an ultimatum of some sort? Would she maybe have seen it as a punishment, instead? I'm not sure she saw it as a boundary you were setting, as much as a "so there!   " from you... .

I just know that when my loved ones are dysregulated, I exercise my boundaries by either leaving the situation, or being silent and nodding with furrowed brow (if I don't need to leave the room). I don't ever verbalize some sort of line in the sand at that time; I wait for a quieter time if I need to verbalize my needs that way.

I realize that the situation was volatile and stressful, and you were bursting at the seams to make it stop, or to let her know how you felt about it. I've been there, too    I'm so sorry for your horrible morning, maxsterling  

[maxsterling]

In the state she was in, I'm wondering if she took this advice (and then your "boundary-setting" as condescending and/or as an ultimatum of some sort? Would she maybe have seen it as a punishment, instead? I'm not sure she saw it as a boundary you were setting, as much as a "so there!   " from you... .

That is exactly what happened.

[maxsterling]

Question:  Would you have been better off not hearing most of this... .this morning?

For sure.  It's ruined what I was hoping to be a productive and awesome day.

Is she better off because you stayed and heard it?

Better off?  Probably not.  Didn't solve anything for her.  But I think she needed to get these emotions out of her system in some way.  So I would say she is no better off, nor really worse off.

Getting away from it was nearly impossible this morning.  Small house, dysreg starting before I opened my eyes, and by the time I could have even had a chance to put a shirt and shoes on, the worst was already unleashed. 

I'm glad I have decided to take the day off.  It will help. 

[formflier]

 

It seems a balance is needed between "helping" the pwBPD get through a dysreg... .and "protecting" max so that he can get up and go to work in a reasonable state of mind.

Anyone with ideas on what that middle ground is?

[Notwendy]

I don't know. Last time I stayed at my parents house, this would happen to me. Mom would walk into my room when I was sleeping to rage at me. At this point, as an adult, I decided I would not stay with her anymore and stay somewhere else when I visit.

But a spouse can't do that. My H tends to rage at me when we are alone in hotel rooms. I don't know if it is the new environment but part of it is his expectation for having a romantic night, which is possible but does not always follow that formula if we are there for business, other reasons. However, if the expectation is there, ( not necessarily communicated) and I don't meet his expectations, then I feel trapped in a room while he rages with no where to go and we are usually with one car. It may not even mean this becuse it can happen when we are staying in the room with our children in which case it is understood that this won't happen. When we are with the kids he doesn't rage, but gives me the ST which is really strange because he will be great talkative dad with them and at the same time, act like I am not there.

Anyway, there is something about being stuck and no where to go that makes this a volatile setting.

I brought this up with my T and she said just leave- get another room or anything, which could be expensive. Instead, I don't travel with him unless necessary- visiting family and such.

So, Max, how about an escape plan. This could be happening because she knows you can't go and are at her mercy. Keep a large coat by the door, or if she will take it, in your car to cover you up. Keep a suitcase packed with a change of clothes, shoes, toiletery kit and just go. Do you have a friend who you can change and shower at your house? Can you join a gym and go there? Also keep spare clothes at the office in case you need them.

Have a plan so that you can leave and go to work.

[sweetheart]

Hi max,

If my dBPDh is at a 5 by my gauge, internally you are right she will have been at a 7/8 and it seems she was. If it was me waking up to this level of dysregulation, and I have, what worked best for me was to grab my clothes and our son and say "we can talk about this later when things are calmer. I'm going to get dressed and go to work be back at XYZ time... ." then get dressed and leave. You can text her once you get to work and she how she is and take it from there.

As you know the build up started yesterday with your mother, whatever your mother is triggering in her is major and I suggest that for the time being that you try not to enter into discussions about this with her. Use the safety of your MC to facilitate this discussion not your home.

SWOE says to get out of the way if there is no incremental buildup to a dysregulation and if the pwBPD is at a 6/7 then leave the room/house.

I hope things are calmer when you get home.

[formflier]

 

Hang in there max... .hope you had a good day off work and were able to be ready for this evening.

[maxsterling]

A much needed day.  I recharged some.  She seems to have spiraled down into deep depression.  She apologized, but my gut says to prepare for the suicide talk tonight.

[Grey Kitty]

Max, I'm glad you are feeling better now. I hope you don't have to deal with the suicidal actions/thoughts tongiht.

Here's my 20/20 hindsight take on your morning:

First, with her waking me up to make some kind of a comment regarding clothing that I had hung to dry.  After she took a shower is when the venting about my mother began.  I let her vent, did my best to not take it personally or JADE, validated, hugged her, and thought we could move on.  10 minutes later, it was back, with greater insults about my mom, my dad, my whole family, and then me.  I tried to exit the conversation several times, she would not stop (couldn't leave the house without getting dressed). 

When you have to "try not to take it personally" that is your cue that you've already been there too long. (As opposed to those times where you are feeling truly compassionate toward their plight and naturally hear their fears/feelings and validate them.)

How fast can you get dressed while holding your fingers in your ears (if needed) so you can just GET OUT ASAP?

Being trapped with a dysreglating partner is as bad a situation as I've ever been in. It usually happened to me in a car on a long drive. 

[maxsterling]

well, she was still upset when I got home.  More upset at others than at me, and the vitriol towards me was less. No suicide talk, but self harm (hitting) - enough where I didn't feel right leaving her alone.  I did my best to validate her feelings without validating the invalid.  Though when she is all over the place with her complaints.  I watched her paint nearly everyone black and block them on her phone and on facebook.  I listened to her complain about my family.  My day to myself was enough for me to stay calm and not react.  I was mostly just frustrated that we could be having a fun time, instead she is hanging on to all this crap.  Most of the stuff she said tonight I did not feel hurt by, just annoyed that I was dealing with this again.  So I helped her work through it, kept calm, and eventually she calmed some.  And when she calmed enough, she cried in my arms and said "I want to change.  I don't want to yell at you any more!"  Wow.  I think that is a big breakthrough. 

[Grey Kitty]

And when she calmed enough, she cried in my arms and said "I want to change.  I don't want to yell at you any more!"  Wow.  I think that is a big breakthrough. 

Is this a first for her?

It sure is a positive step!

[maxsterling]

And when she calmed enough, she cried in my arms and said "I want to change.  I don't want to yell at you any more!"  Wow.  I think that is a big breakthrough. 

Is this a first for her?

It sure is a positive step!

Yes.   Shes admitted and apologized for behvior before, but never expressed this desire to change.

[formflier]

 

This is good... .not sure what next step is... .but I think this is a good turn of events.

[maxsterling]

that lasted all of about an hour.  I went and picked up her prescriptions, came home and made a ham sandwich.  Then all hell broke loose.  Mad because I made something and didn't make something for her (despite her telling me prior that she was going to make eggs for herself).  Throwing things, threatening suicide, screaming, hitting herself, throwing more things.  I've got her on the phone with the crisis line now.

Scary. 

[MaroonLiquid]

that lasted all of about an hour.  I went and picked up her prescriptions, came home and made a ham sandwich.  Then all hell broke loose.  Mad because I made something and didn't make something for her (despite her telling me prior that she was going to make eggs for herself).  Throwing things, threatening suicide, screaming, hitting herself, throwing more things.  I've got her on the phone with the crisis line now.

Scary. 

Man, sorry to hear that max.  It's like she scratched the surface of the truth and she couldn't handle the pain of it.  My wife did that not too long ago when she said, "I've got more issues than I ever thought."  I was floored when she admitted it, but right after that she dsregulated completely and took my car.  It sucks and t's tough.  Hang in there.  Again, I'm sorry.   

[Grey Kitty]

  That's so tough.

I've got her on the phone with the crisis line now.

At least you don't have to deal with suicide threats alone.

[maxsterling]

She talked to the crisis line for about half an hour.  That helped.  I also forced her to eat banana.  That also helped.  The crisis team suggested she go to the emergency room or urgent care so that she could be put on anti anxiety medication.  So, off to urgent care at 8:30.  They prescribed xanax, then off to the 24 hr pharmacy.  Line was long there, so after dropping off the script, we decided to come home where she ate went to sleep.  At that point she was mostly calm.

Today, she's been up, already back to "planning her day" - BAD sign.  This is how it all begins.  Make plans, re-make plans, cancel plans, and by the end of the day shame that she didn't get everything done.

Good news is she asked me if this "panic attack" was not as bad as previous ones.  I was frank and said "No."  I told her that I felt I handled things better, and she agreed.  I think she agreed simply because I dialed crisis and forced the phone to her ear rather than call the police when she was turning furniture over. 

As for me - my emotional gas tank is on fumes.  I don't feel like being touched or close to her much.  I've got a headache, ringing in my ears, am shaken, and fear that the nightmares and flashbacks will return. I feel like I am close to a "last straw" and am growing impatient with her her treatment plan.  To be fair, she is, too.  But I had been patient, letting her do what she thinks best.  I'm thinking serious boundaries here that somehow help me keep focus on today ad today's immediate tasks, and absolutely refusing to discuss things that are projections to the future (such as money or having a child someday).  MC may be a good chance to discuss that.

[formflier]

 

Hang in there Max!

I'm guessing that right now you need lots of support.  I'm a problem solving guy... .so that is where this is coming from... .

Anyway... .after the last round of suicide threats... .what was the change in her treatment regimen?  I know there was talk about it... .but I don't remember her committing or really changing.

Maybe is was some TLCs... .I can't remember.

While this event sucks... .my hope and prayer for you is that you can swing out of this with more good momentum to crank her treatment up a couple notches.

[sweetheart]

Max as you know I have said before there are huge similarities in your wife's history and presentation of her illness with my dBPDh's.

I too looked for answers through treatment plans and therapy and intervention and hospitalisation over recent years thinking they would make everything better. And still the periods of crisis and the dysregulations did not abate. We continue to go through the same cycles. The main thing that has changed in our marriage is me.

What I hope you are beginning to come to terms with is this is how the illness is going to manifest itself in your wife, it is as you know a pervasive illness and it won't get better, but you will learn to manage your part in it better. Honestly you will.

Learning not to engage in triggering emotional conversations with my h are something I have now stopped, they serve no purpose at all and are critical in short circuiting possible dysregulations. For some people with BPD these type of conversations do not work at all especially for those like my h who is low functioning. His P has told me to keep away from anything to do with past emotional issues, to keep everything current and as upbeat as possible. Keeping things simplistic and light is important and if you learn to hone your skills in this area it will help you immensely.

I have learnt over the last few years to make a mental note of major triggers for him.

I have gotten so much better with using the services we have available here to support my h because this means I am supported too as they are dealing with him not me. I actively encourage him to use crisis phone support out of office hours, his P or T in hours. Even the police know us well now . This is an area you could start maybe thinking about, what support can be accessed for your wife in times of crisis, or if you know she is going to dysregulate, what can you help her access there and then to prevent things escalating. The main thing is to take you out of the emotional firing line and make an action plan to help you for when this happens again. And it will happen again. It will help you feel stronger and more in control of your feelings if you know what you will do in advance.

[Grey Kitty]

PAY ATTENTION TO THIS!

As for me - my emotional gas tank is on fumes.  I don't feel like being touched or close to her much.  I've got a headache, ringing in my ears, am shaken, and fear that the nightmares and flashbacks will return. I feel like I am close to a "last straw" and am growing impatient with her her treatment plan.

Take care of yourself. Get some time out and away from her and her drama. With your phone off if needed.

I'm thinking serious boundaries here that somehow help me keep focus on today ad today's immediate tasks, and absolutely refusing to discuss things that are projections to the future (such as money or having a child someday).

"I'm too upset to talk about that now." (end of discussion)

Besides being an effective boundary, it is completely true!

[maxsterling]

"I'm too upset to talk about that now." (end of discussion)

Besides being an effective boundary, it is completely true!

Good advice.  Should a statement like this be prefaced with a validation statement?  I'm thinking yes.  I can see where that statement alone could be interpreted as invalidating - she will hear "he's too fragile to deal with me, he doesn't think my issues are important... ."

I went to an alanon meeting this morning.  It helped.  She's calm, but I can still sense the underlying distress.  She's off to yoga (good!) then home for a short bit, then off to fit a wedding dress with a friend (good!)  That means, me time.  I am not going to clean the house, not going to cook, just do things that feel good. 

[Grey Kitty]

"I can't deal with you right now" blames her and is invalidating.

"I'm too upset to talk about this subject." is all about YOU. It isn't invalidating her needs or feelings. It isn't validating either.

And the whole reason you are getting anxious/upset is that you know she's already half-way to dysregulation when the topic comes up! If you keep talking, she will be fully dysregulated before you know it. Avoiding this is the best thing you can do!

I don't see validation while enforcing boundaries as a great combination. Boundary enforcement isn't kind or gentle. It needs to be firm, even hard.

[formflier]

  Boundary enforcement isn't kind or gentle. It needs to be firm, even hard.

I like to use the word "unambiguous"... .

Leave no doubt that a boundary got enforced... .

Hopefully that will trigger them to think about what boundary got crossed... .

[maxsterling]

Some aftermath of all this: 

She's been mostly calm the past day or so.  Actually, about as calm as she has ever been.  She's taken a few half pills of the xanax in stressful situations, and she claims they have helped.  Today she remarked about how good she feels - this in relation to her eating better.  The obsessive thoughts are still very much there - last night I suggested we watch a movie on DVD.  She watched with me, but spent the whole time texting/researching about wedding stuff.  Yes, the same stuff that led to a breakdown on friday.  Not good.  But afterwards, she did remark about how she felt like she "wasn't present" for me last night.  Wow.  Very self aware.  But she also wasn't present for herself.  Other positives - today she suggested that I watch football and relax.  WOW!  To suggest that to me is a big, big first.  And I need it too.  My head hurts, and I think a major cause is the traumatic events of friday.  She also is out spending time with a friend now.  I told her and reinforced that it is positive for her to be doing this and taking a break to just have fun.

I've been using the tools here to the best of my ability and taking advantage of the calm in hopes of getting thru to her.  I'm paying attention to her moods as to how far I take things.  So far, so good, but difficult because I feel so burnt out from friday and my energy for this is quite low right now.  I did talk to her some about the xanax, and felt that conversation was productive.  She did also mention a few things that I validated and thought were good exchanges.  The first she was talking about the time her dad took her to rehab for the last time, and how he said that it was the last time he would help her.  I asked her how she feels about that, and she said that it is what he had to do to protect himself, and she was open about how hard her drug abuse was on her family.  I think that was HUGE for her to admit that to me.   The second thing she said was asking me if I feel like I am being put on an emotional rollercoaster.  I felt this was a question with an obvious answer, so rather than answer the obvious I did a validation/deflection and replied that the emotional roller coaster has to be tough on her (encouraging her to focus on her rather than on me).  And a third was when she was asking me if I cared that she was wearing the same thing she did yesterday.  I told her that I'm not going to focus on what she wears - it's not my business, and what is important is that she be happy with herself and what she wears.  I told her that it's not my place to tell her what to wear.  She remarked that she does this with me, and implied that i should want to do that back to her as revenge.  I told her that there would be no point in me doing that- it would solve nothing.   Interesting to see the way she thinks, and expects me to think.

So, some big positives and some important exchanges while she is calm.  But I have to be careful to not have my expectations up.  This has happened many times before, only to have the roller coaster head back down hill in another week.

[formflier]

 

One thing that I have noticed in my r/s is that I seem to get more time between dysregs... .(other than holidays)... .but when they do dysreg... .it seems to be "odder"... .or more extreme.

She does seem to return to baseline quicker... .I attribute that to me not "pouring gas on the fire"... .with invalidation or other bad stuff.

And attempting to validate as appropriate.

Max,

I think the self aware part is great... .because now it is a subject that you can talk about.

Do you think you can suggest doing one electronic thing at a time.

So... .either... .you and her sit with laptop... .and research.

Or you sit and watch a dvd.

I get it that their mind wants to do a million things and multi task... .but... I'm not sure that giving in to that is healthy.

[maxsterling]

FF - yeah, I have noticed the same thing.  The dysregs actually seem more severe.  Or at least Friday was about the worst I have seen in terms of duration and level of violence.  The weird thing about Friday that I had not seen yet was that she calmed, then raged, then calmed, and then raged.  Normally, once she gets to a stage of tears, that's it.  Friday, it was severe rage, then tears, self awareness and apology, to worse rage, to promise to never do it again, to even worse rage.  But the calm periods seem more calm and more self aware.