Do they know how much they hurt us?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hey guys, so my question is... .do our BPD exes know how much they hurt us? Or are they not aware of the pain they caused... .Because it seems like they carry on living their life, but do they ever think about what they have done to us? Do they know what they have done to us? Thank you!

[Jmanster]

Hey guys, so my question is... .do our BPD exes know how much they hurt us? Or are they not aware of the pain they caused... .Because it seems like they carry on living their life, but do they ever think about what they have done to us? Do they know what they have done to us? Thank you!

[bunnyrabit]

Yes they know.

[mywifecrazy]

I think they KNOW yes but I'm not sure that they understand why we are hurt nor can they relate. Yes they can relate to pain as they have their internal pain but they can't relate with the pain they caused us. I think because they have painted is black and now in their minds we are bad. They must think we feel the same about them.

I remember when I was very depressed and crying a lot after my uBPDxw abandoned me and our sons. She saw me crying and hurting real bad once and gave me this confused look and tilted her head almost like a dog does when it is confused. It was weird!

MWC... .

[Mr Hollande]

Towards the end with mine I got confessions about what she had done to her son and his father. She was distraught at the time and everything just poured out of her. Based on that I'd say yes. They know. That's why they compartmentalise. If they didn't I don't think they could live with themselves.

Yes they know!

[Deeno02]

Then what drives the hate? I broke NC to tell her I was happy for her after I saw a pic of her and the new guy. Got a snarky text back calling me passive agressive. Is it shame? Is she holding me responsible for her dumping me? Don't get it.

[Alberto]

Then what drives the hate? I broke NC to tell her I was happy for her after I saw a pic of her and the new guy. Got a snarky text back calling me passive agressive. Is it shame? Is she holding me responsible for her dumping me? Don't get it.

She feels less responsible if she can displace the blame on you. It's actually a very typical coping mechanism. BPDs can have dysphoric states that last days so being enraged is better than feeling ashamed.

[Alberto]

And yes of course they know. One the first threads I read here was about the inability of BPD exes to look you in the face after the break up. When my ex sees me is like she saw a ghost, she is livid and looks to the ground. BPD implies shame.

[Perdita]

He knew.  He'd be an idiot if he didn't.  I literally spelled it out to him many many times.  It didn't matter to him, because he simply repeated the same pattern without a care.  He seemed to get pleasure from it.

[downwhim]

Mine enjoys revenge once he paints you black. He was treating me like s... .t and would fold his arms, start the silent treatment and smirk. Like, I got her. Let's make her squirm, let's make her suffer. I am moving on and look at her, she is acting crazy.

He knew he just didn't care anymore. Replacement was on his mind. He is hiding out too. Ashamed to run into friends etc.

[Deeno02]

Then what drives the hate? I broke NC to tell her I was happy for her after I saw a pic of her and the new guy. Got a snarky text back calling me passive agressive. Is it shame? Is she holding me responsible for her dumping me? Don't get it.

She feels less responsible if she can displace the blame on you. It's actually a very typical coping mechanism. BPDs can have dysphoric states that last days so being enraged is better than feeling ashamed.

I'm sure she probably raged to her BF and buddies about it. How dare he say that! Sheesh

[Recooperating]

Yes they know! They know right from wrong, they know its wrong the moment they lie, they know the moment they cheat, they know when they treat you like crap! They just cant stop themselves. Then the shame and guilt get so big that they project everything on you. At least thats what I experienced. My ex knew. After a rage he would tell me he knew. He also had a little voice inside of him saying he was overreacting, but he never could listen to that vooce of reason, the emotion was just to overwhelming to rationalize.

Deeno: your ex could also respond like that cause she's scared you'll spill the bean with the replacement. BPDs have Narc traits. If anyone treathens their credibility they lash out! Not sure ofcourse... .

[myself]

They know. They have eyes, hearts, have been told, etc. When your life is filled with pain and running, and obviously doing unto others as you'd like them to NOT do unto you, projection and denial do not make it all go away. Also, by doing everything possible to bring us to their levels of pain, which I do believe is part of this, doesn't that create its own form of relating?

[Jmanster]

So they DO know that they are hurting us... .but they can't cope with their emotions... .meaning their emotions overwhelm their logic of right and wrong correct?

[Deeno02]

Yes they know! They know right from wrong, they know its wrong the moment they lie, they know the moment they cheat, they know when they treat you like crap! They just cant stop themselves. Then the shame and guilt get so big that they project everything on you. At least thats what I experienced. My ex knew. After a rage he would tell me he knew. He also had a little voice inside of him saying he was overreacting, but he never could listen to that vooce of reason, the emotion was just to overwhelming to rationalize.

Deeno: your ex could also respond like that cause she's scared you'll spill the bean with the replacement. BPDs have Narc traits. If anyone treathens their credibility they lash out! Not sure ofcourse... .

Could be. It was on Instagram. Since deleted, but it was on there for a bit...

[Recooperating]

So they DO know that they are hurting us... .but they can't cope with their emotions... .meaning their emotions overwhelm their logic of right and wrong correct?

Yes kind off, at least thats how my ex explained it. But when they do, its not like they "forget" its wrong. If I had to use a metafor the best thing that comes to mind is addiction. I know smoking is bad for me. I tried to quit because I know its bad for me, still I light up that smoke cause I "need" it. But when I do I know its bad for me... .

Dont know if that makes sense?

[bunnyrabit]

So they DO know that they are hurting us... .but they can't cope with their emotions... .meaning their emotions overwhelm their logic of right and wrong correct?

Yes kind off, at least thats how my ex explained it. But when they do, its not like they "forget" its wrong. If I had to use a metafor the best thing that comes to mind is addiction. I know smoking is bad for me. I tried to quit because I know its bad for me, still I light up that smoke cause I "need" it. But when I do I know its bad for me... .

Dont know if that makes sense?

Yes, that's kinda how my ex explained it. She was well aware of the hurtful things she did and she apologized at several occasions. It seemed heartfelt, I could tell that it hurt her too. Her explanation was: I can't help myself... .

[milo1967]

 "She saw me crying and hurting real bad once and gave me this confused look and tilted her head almost like a dog does when it is confused."

I got the same thing.  As I posted on another similar thread, I begged her to stop hurting me.  Nothing.  She didn't seem to get it.  Or at least deflected by saying, "Stop hurting ME." Which was bizarre, since I was doing nothing to hurt her.  It was very much like trying to communicate with a child. Another time I tried simple reason, appealing to what I assume she had--a basic ability to empathize:  "Please try for a minute to imagine me doing to you what you are doing to me.  Just try."  I got a blank look. 

But it is confusing, as the woman I married was SO full of kindness, so full of sensitivity.  I honestly don't know if she was always this way and I chose to ignore it, or if The Beast was released later.  I do believe she had some sort of crisis or breakdown a few years ago when she turned thirty-nine.  She just... .changed.  Now she is a stranger.  She LOOKS like the person who was my wife, but she is mean and is full of resentment toward me. 

[KeepOnGoing]

So, what I'm hearing is, they need new supply like they need a cigarette, like an addiction, because ultimately, we get painted black and become uninteresting. The disorder demands the pwBPD move on due to their fear of intimacy. Is that right? And so they know they do this, because they have done it their whole lives, and yet they just can't help it. Like an active alcoholic who takes a drink. She has to because her addiction dictates it. There is a veil of denial, but that does lift, and the guilt and remorse kicks in... .

Sound about right?

[myself]

and become uninteresting

My now-ex often talked of other exes, especially the ones who had done her "the most wrong". For all I know, these are the ones she actually felt closest with and were the nicest with her (seeing as I've been accused of similar 'crimes'. It was as if she kept finding a turd in her pocket that she found too fascinating to dispose of (and while disordered perhaps too difficult to let go of), and it also goes farther than that. The memories/projections were still 'interesting' enough to her in ways that she used to hang onto the victim image she had of herself/presented to others. As far as us? 'Painted black' not only means avoided but also being used as fuel to continue running.

[Waifed]

So, what I'm hearing is, they need new supply like they need a cigarette, like an addiction, because ultimately, we get painted black and become uninteresting. The disorder demands the pwBPD move on due to their fear of intimacy. Is that right? And so they know they do this, because they have done it their whole lives, and yet they just can't help it. Like an active alcoholic who takes a drink. She has to because her addiction dictates it. There is a veil of denial, but that does lift, and the guilt and remorse kicks in... .

Sound about right?

I have pretty much always suffered from fear of intimacy/engulfment. It really sucks. I will meet someone and be very excited that this could be the one. As the relationship evolves I feel smothered and "doomed". Having sex makes it worse. I start to resent the person and look for reasons to end the relationship. If I know they are not wanting to get serious I'm perfectly fine. I have been working on this in therapy and it's hard. Knowing that your feelings are going to change every time is sad and depressing, yet I keep trying to find the "one".

I did not experience this with my ex because of the push/pull of the relationship. I couldn't conquer her. It is even more difficult now because I experienced what I thought was love with her. Do I feel bad because this happens?  Yes, I do now. Before I was hurt by my ex I would try to cast off my shame on them, but for me the guilt/shame has always been very damaging to me if I know they are hurt. I avoid conflict with them until they are over it. Kinda sounds like I'm borderline... .My shrink thinks otherwise. Hope he's right!

[TheDude]

So they DO know that they are hurting us... .but they can't cope with their emotions... .meaning their emotions overwhelm their logic of right and wrong correct?

It's not so much that they can't "cope" with their emotions as it is they have their own set of coping and defense mechanisms for them. So yes, they know, but are almost supernatural in their ability to deflect, project and any other means to avoid facing the shame and guilt.

[mywifecrazy]

"She saw me crying and hurting real bad once and gave me this confused look and tilted her head almost like a dog does when it is confused."

It was very much like trying to communicate with a child. Another time I tried simple reason, appealing to what I assume she had--a basic ability to empathize:  "Please try for a minute to imagine me doing to you what you are doing to me.  Just try."  I got a blank look. 

Your BPD sounds a lot like mine! I tried to explain things to her and asked her to TRY to see things through my eyes... .I too got the blank stare!

But it is confusing, as the woman I married was SO full of kindness, so full of sensitivity.  I honestly don't know if she was always this way and I chose to ignore it, or if The Beast was released later.  I do believe she had some sort of crisis or breakdown a few years ago when she turned thirty-nine.  She just... .changed.  Now she is a stranger.  She LOOKS like the person who was my wife, but she is mean and is full of resentment toward me. 

Yes I've dealt with this too. Now she is a total stranger. I did have the chance to tell her that not only don't I love her anymore but I don't even like her. I think this hurt her which was not my intention as I was just trying to relate to her that people who care about each other, even in divorce, don't do the things she was and still is doing to hurt me and our sons. I didn't see it either. You and I probably missed seeing their true selves as we were in the FOG and blinded by their idolizations of us.

MWC... .

[Perfidy]

Hell yes they know. If we aren't hurt they can't validate themselves. They hurt us to make them feel better about their self. I have a gift for you. It's your self.

[Perfidy]

The key is to become soft and flexible.

[JRT]

Then what drives the hate? I broke NC to tell her I was happy for her after I saw a pic of her and the new guy. Got a snarky text back calling me passive agressive. Is it shame? Is she holding me responsible for her dumping me? Don't get it.

She feels less responsible if she can displace the blame on you. It's actually a very typical coping mechanism. BPDs can have dysphoric states that last days so being enraged is better than feeling ashamed.

Mine has gone through significant lengths to avoid any possibility of ANY type of communication with her to avoid facing her shame; blocking my phone number, text, email, social media (she was somehow able to successfully compel her family and friends, no matter how obscure, to unfriend me). She had left some personal property here of which I made available to return (through one of her friends) to her upon condition that she and she only arrange to have it picked up and that she provide me with an explanation as to why she did what she did to me (pulled a disappearing act 3 months ago). Although she desperately wanted to have the items returned (keepsake items related to her son and family) Her anger/avoidance of shame is so great, she was was perfectly ok for me to throw them in the garbage if I would not allow a third party to get the stuff! Blows my mind... .

She never did this during one of the previous recycles. Does that raging ever go away? At what point, I wonder, does the anger evaporate and they become rational, looking back at what they had done with horror and despair. If at all... .

[Jo-Marie]

my experience was that no, he didn't realise how much he was hurting me, because the times when he hurt me were times when he was hurting so much or angry so much or so self-protective that nothing else really registered.

Essentially, it is all about them, and not about you.

Even though when my BPDexbf was being lovely, when he was relaxed, it was real, and he did know me.  But even then, part of him was living in an ideal relationship and not in our real relationship.

JM

[milo1967]

"You and I probably missed seeing their true selves as we were in the FOG and blinded by their idolizations of us."

Yes. I did come out of my own fog now and then. Around four years into our marriage we had a fight. I remember her lying in bed with "that mask" on (staring into the distance with a look of pure contempt) saying to me, "You've been a great disappointment to me."

I don't recall what I "had done." But I do remember being bewildered at being so castigated and had the insight at the moment to say, "You have put me on such a high pedestal. Nobody can possibly live up to your ideal. I am flawed. It's not fair to put such a burden on me that I am the one who has to undo all the wrongs done to you by so many people in your life."

And this was what ultimately tore down our marriage, one that had so much happiness in it: I proved myself to be a mere mortal and this was too much for her. I was devalued seemingly overnight and there was no resurrecting me in her eyes.

[Deeno02]

"You and I probably missed seeing their true selves as we were in the FOG and blinded by their idolizations of us."

Yes. I did come out of my own fog now and then. Around four years into our marriage we had a fight. I remember her lying in bed with "that mask" on (staring into the distance with a look of pure contempt) saying to me, "You've been a great disappointment to me."

I don't recall what I "had done." But I do remember being bewildered at being so castigated and had the insight at the moment to say, "You have put me on such a high pedestal. Nobody can possibly live up to your ideal. I am flawed. It's not fair to put such a burden on me that I am the one who has to undo all the wrongs done to you by so many people in your life."

And this was what ultimately tore down our marriage, one that had so much happiness in it: I proved myself to be a mere mortal and this was too much for her. I was devalued seemingly overnight and there was no resurrecting me in her eyes.

Yep... .well said