why do BPD's refuse to meet in person following a break up?

[jsmit154]

Keep in mind that I am the one that ended it.  When I attempted  what would turn out to be the reconciliation of nightmares, things seemed to go well enough. By well enough, I mean that her bitterness and passive agression were minimal. We both agreed that we need to exchange personal items. As time went on, she kept making excuses not to meet. Starting to get self conscious, I asked if it was about me. I told her that she didn't have to worry, I would go to any length to make sure her kids didn't see me. Her son took it very hard and I would never want him to see me and be hurt again. Her reply was "I don't know if I can see you". I didn't push it and told her that if she wanted to tell me why sometime she could. I was worried that she thought I was some kind of dangerous person.  Finally she blurted out "What do you want me to say? Do you want to get me to admit that I don't trust myself around you? Is my situation particular or is this a common BPD trait?

[itgirl]

My pwBPDgf broke up with me middle November.  She didn't want to see me as she was so angry she said she would want to kill me.  As soon as I started No Contact she started texting more.  This lasted till Monday.  Now I am being love bombed. 

[Hazelrah]

Hello jsmit,

I might guess that she finds it painful to see someone that has triggered her abandonment issues by breaking off the relationship.  However, many ‘nons’ would react similarly in the face of a painful situation like this (I know I would)—it might not be BPD driving the behavior. 

Would setting up an alternate solution for exchanging personal items be an option, since she is uncomfortable with meeting in person?

[Confused?]

Out of sight, out of mind. That's how it is with them.

[vortex of confusion]

I wonder if it might be more helpful to take this out of the realm of BPD. The reason that I say that is that I have read post after post where people (BPD and non) want no contact. I have seen the question: "Why does the BPD insist on meeting in person?" Now it is, "Why does the BPD refuse to meet in person?"

I am not trying to be mean or disrespectful. I sometimes think it helps me find "normal" in whatever I can get. Everybody reacts differently to a break up. I have had boyfriends that I didn't ever want to see again and I have boyfriends that I would love to see again. My desire to see them depended more on me and how I was feeling: weak, vulnerable, afraid, etc. If that is extrapolated onto somebody with BPD, then all of those feelings would be magnified.

I guess what I am trying to say is that sometimes there doesn't have to be a reason for a person to not want to see somebody else. They just don't want to see them. It isn't always something personal and it isn't always something related to BPD.

[Alberto]

“People with BPD are like people with third degree burns over 90% of their bodies. Lacking emotional skin, they feel agony at the slightest touch or movement.”

― Marsha M. Linehan

[lm911]

I think the past few posts answered your question. We trigger them, they have no emotinal skin, so they paint you black and deadly try to forget you.

[fred6]

I wonder if it might be more helpful to take this out of the realm of BPD. The reason that I say that is that I have read post after post where people (BPD and non) want no contact. I have seen the question: "Why does the BPD insist on meeting in person?" Now it is, "Why does the BPD refuse to meet in person?"

I am not trying to be mean or disrespectful. I sometimes think it helps me find "normal" in whatever I can get. Everybody reacts differently to a break up. I have had boyfriends that I didn't ever want to see again and I have boyfriends that I would love to see again. My desire to see them depended more on me and how I was feeling: weak, vulnerable, afraid, etc. If that is extrapolated onto somebody with BPD, then all of those feelings would be magnified.

I guess what I am trying to say is that sometimes there doesn't have to be a reason for a person to not want to see somebody else. They just don't want to see them. It isn't always something personal and it isn't always something related to BPD.

I don't know vortex, I think that the whole point is that they flip the switch and paint someone black at the spur of the moment for a seemingly uneventful reason. I can understand your point though. I think when nons don't want to have contact is because they have usually suffered some sort of abuse and need to detach and heal. I cannot think of anyone in my life that I've been intimate with that I don't ever want to see or talk to again. I get along with everyone that I've ever dated. I have no grudges against any of them.

Hell, I don't really even hold a grudge against my exBPDgf. I'm hurt. I'm confused. I wish that we somehow could have at least been somewhat friendly and keep in touch. But the reality of the situation is that she cheated on me, lied to me, and treated my like a used piece of toilet paper. And subsequently now wants nothing to do with me. It's backwards. I can understand her not wanting to have contact with me if I did something wrong to her, but she's the one that did me wrong. Shame is the only thing that makes any sense whatsoever, out of sight out of mind. What other reason could it be?

[MaybeSo]

Quote from: vortex of confusion on Today at 11:23:22 AM

I wonder if it might be more helpful to take this out of the realm of BPD. The reason that I say that is that I have read post after post where people (BPD and non) want no contact. I have seen the question: "Why does the BPD insist on meeting in person?" Now it is, "Why does the BPD refuse to meet in person?"

I am not trying to be mean or disrespectful. I sometimes think it helps me find "normal" in whatever I can get. Everybody reacts differently to a break up. I have had boyfriends that I didn't ever want to see again and I have boyfriends that I would love to see again. My desire to see them depended more on me and how I was feeling: weak, vulnerable, afraid, etc. If that is extrapolated onto somebody with BPD, then all of those feelings would be magnified.

I guess what I am trying to say is that sometimes there doesn't have to be a reason for a person to not want to see somebody else. They just don't want to see them. It isn't always something personal and it isn't always something related to BPD.

I don't know vortex, I think that the whole point is that they flip the switch and paint someone black at the spur of the moment for a seemingly uneventful reason. I can understand your point though. I think when nons don't want to have contact is because they have usually suffered some sort of abuse and need to detach and heal. I cannot think of anyone in my life that I've been intimate with that I don't ever want to see or talk to again. I get along with everyone that I've ever dated. I have no grudges against any of them.

Hell, I don't really even hold a grudge against my exBPDgf. I'm hurt. I'm confused. I wish that we somehow could have at least been somewhat friendly and keep in touch. But the reality of the situation is that she cheated on me, lied to me, and treated my like a used piece of toilet paper. And subsequently now wants nothing to do with me. It's backwards. I can understand her not wanting to have contact with me if I did something wrong to her, but she's the one that did me wrong. Shame is the only thing that makes any sense whatsoever, out of sight out of mind. What other reason could it be?

I think Vortex makes a good point.

I've been on these boards for about 6 years now?

For every post identifying or implying that only a pwBPD would behave this way... .and asking why... .there's a post by a 'non' behaving that exact same way.  I think a post of this nature could just as easily be entitled Why won't my ex agree to meet with me... .Because not all pwBPD are exactly the same, and, a person not dx with BPD under stress can very easily slip into the same exact behaviors.  In other words, when a person won't see you after a break up... .that's not a diagnostic criteria for a serious mental health disorder.  There are tons of reasons why a 'non' might choose NOT to meet up with an ex at any given time.  :)oes that make sense?

I think when nons don't want to have contact is because they have usually suffered some sort of abuse and need to detach and heal.

PwBPD are actually not all that different than someone w/out the disorder. Shocking but true.  If you look at the dx criteria for BPD... .nearly all non disordered people can say they have felt the same way or acted the same way at times in their life... .in all 9 diagnositc categories.  There isn't one thing on that list that is way out there or psychotic.   The reason the list is diagnostic is b/c it's so pervasive and steady over time and they have to have 5 or more happening at the same time.  Also, most clinicians and researchers are viewing BPD as a type of complex PTSD, eg., developmental trauma.  So, the reason they behave oddly in relationships is b/c they are triggered w/ intimacy the way a soldier is triggered by certain loud noises.  They are having trauma responses to closeness. Similar to a non as described above... .a pwBPD has suffered some kind of neglect or abuse that was in the arena of relating... .and so they are needing some distance and to heal, too.  Just like the non, only more intense and pervasive over time.  

My ex with BPD has never refused to meet with me after a break-up. All people are different, even those who have a dx disorder.  He is very high functioning, and has had lots of therapy... .if he was lower functioning and more prone to being triggered, he probably would refuse to meet me after a break-up at least for a period of time,  or have more trouble in that arena.  It's a spectrum disorder.  I am the one more likely to refuse to meet him after a break up, at least until some time has gone by.  And I am the 'non'.

Not meeting up after a break-up is often a very wise choice. Often some distance is greatly needed for both people to calm down, get grounded and gain some perspective.

[jhkbuzz]

Shame is the only thing that makes any sense whatsoever, out of sight out of mind. What other reason could it be?

Yes - deep, abiding shame.  They may be impulsive but they don't lack a conscience - they know that they've terribly hurt someone they loved and someone who loved them.  They can't bear the pain of seeing that person - it's too vivid a reminder of what they've done

And, in line with the tone of these posts - that can be true of non BPD people as well.

[vortex of confusion]

I can understand her not wanting to have contact with me if I did something wrong to her, but she's the one that did me wrong. Shame is the only thing that makes any sense whatsoever, out of sight out of mind. What other reason could it be?

I am basing this on my sister and her behavior. I could say the same thing about the fact that I didn't do anything to her other than stand up for myself. Plus, I have listened to her rants so many times over the years that I am pretty sure that when she would cut people out of her life it sure as heck wasn't because of shame. It was because, in her twisted mind, the other person screwed her over. It didn't matter what she did to them, it was usually twisted back into how bad the other person did her wrong. If she didn't want to see somebody, it was NOT because of shame but because she thought she was so high and mighty and in the right. And, to top it off, whether or not she was willing to see somebody was largely based on the push/pull behavior. If you wanted to meet with her, she would say nope, no way no how. If you didn't want to see her, she would push the idea that she just had to see you. It wasn't about anything more than control and doing the opposite.

[JRT]

Shame is the only thing that makes any sense whatsoever, out of sight out of mind. What other reason could it be?

Yes - deep, abiding shame.  They may be impulsive but they don't lack a conscience - they know that they've terribly hurt someone they loved and someone who loved them.  They can't bear the pain of seeing that person - it's too vivid a reminder of what they've done

And, in line with the tone of these posts - that can be true of non BPD people as well.

I agree with this representation at least in my perspective and experience.

Mine did a disappearing act and broke notified me via text... .since then, she has made it impossible to contact her at all, threatening legal action if I did (but not acting fully upon it when I have tried)... .I have not spoken with her at all and it has been three months... .this breakup has been the atomic bomb of recycles by her where all others were lite versions of this. He actions almost seem as if there was some extreme situation like violence or some physical threat, but there never was anything like that. Matter of fact, we never even argued (she was a waif).

In earlier recycles, when she DID finally come around, she would tell me that 'once I saw your face, all was right with the world' and i could see her anger and bitterness go away almost like she was being sedated, it was the wildest thing to see. I am not giving myself a compliment, but for some reason, seeing my physically was enough to set her at ease and end her episode. If that IS the case and she is really committed to being apart from me, I can see where she would go through substantial lengths to avoid any contact of any kind (even if it means the loss of valuable personal property of hers).

I think that underneath the hood that it is probably shame based. Right before she ran, she had begun to take inventory of the positives that her family and friends had towards me. She began to tell me all of the nice things that people were saying about me and how well I treated her including herself). It was so profuse and out of place that it recall it making me feel a little bit uncomfortable.

There were some powerful triggers that were pulled round about the time that it happened so I can see the flight and what pushed her. The extended silence and unwillingness to see me to this extent is incredible. Hurtful... .confusing... .

[misty_red]

Then I guess mine feels no shame at all. After she flew under the radar for a month she showed up at places she knew I'd be.

[balou_k]

My ex didn't want to see me either... I went to her home and she just walked away without a word, just one look over her shoulder and gone she was...

[JRT]

Then I guess mine feels no shame at all. After she flew under the radar for a month she showed up at places she knew I'd be.

That's interesting when you put it that way... .perhaps some feel no shame... .or we are way off base on this.

[JRT]

My ex didn't want to see me either... I went to her home and she just walked away without a word, just one look over her shoulder and gone she was...

How long ago was that? Any contact since then?

[vortex of confusion]

Then I guess mine feels no shame at all. After she flew under the radar for a month she showed up at places she knew I'd be.

That's interesting when you put it that way... .perhaps some feel no shame... .or we are way off base on this.

Ultimately, that is why it really isn't that helpful to ruminate on this stuff. Nobody knows the mind of another person. I know that it helps to try to get closure and have some understanding of why the other person did what he/she did. At the end of the day, it is torturing yourself and it is likely that you may never find out the "real" reason. The reason could be anything from full of shame to no shame at all. It could be something as simple as "I just didn't feel like it" or it could be that the other person thinks you are the spawn of Satan.

[balou_k]

My ex didn't want to see me either... I went to her home and she just walked away without a word, just one look over her shoulder and gone she was...

How long ago was that? Any contact since then?

It was in October last year, we broke up the 10th of August... We had contact push pull until October... She walked away, out of my life... No contact since then... But I did break NC this week, you can read that in my latest topic.

[downwhim]

I also agree it is shame based. They treat you terribly then you want to meet them and be friendly with an exchange? Nope, they want to run. She said she might still want you  at the end of your post. You also may trigger her into a rage because it is over and she just plain doesn't want to meet.

So, I ask myself why meet up with her? Is there something in you that has this need. Personal items can be left at a neutral place for pick up. That is what I did. Never saw him.

Whether she is borderline or not, why bring additional pain for either one of you?

[JRT]

Then I guess mine feels no shame at all. After she flew under the radar for a month she showed up at places she knew I'd be.

That's interesting when you put it that way... .perhaps some feel no shame... .or we are way off base on this.

Ultimately, that is why it really isn't that helpful to ruminate on this stuff. Nobody knows the mind of another person. I know that it helps to try to get closure and have some understanding of why the other person did what he/she did. At the end of the day, it is torturing yourself and it is likely that you may never find out the "real" reason. The reason could be anything from full of shame to no shame at all. It could be something as simple as "I just didn't feel like it" or it could be that the other person thinks you are the spawn of Satan.

I would disagree V... .sure there are competing thoughts, but ultimately, we put together the ones that make sense given the situation. While the motivation for her avoidance escapes me, I think that I have mostly everything else figured out where the day it happened, I was trying to figure out what just happened.

[JRT]

My ex didn't want to see me either... I went to her home and she just walked away without a word, just one look over her shoulder and gone she was...

How long ago was that? Any contact since then?

It was in October last year, we broke up the 10th of August... We had contact push pull until October... She walked away, out of my life... No contact since then... But I did break NC this week, you can read that in my latest topic.

You situation is similar to mine in its time frame... .mine was on September 25th... .I wonder if they feel the connection until it is totally cut off, then the finality sets in... .its just a guess

can you send the link to your post?

[JRT]

I also agree it is shame based. They treat you terribly then you want to meet them and be friendly with an exchange? Nope, they want to run. She said she might still want you  at the end of your post. You also may trigger her into a rage because it is over and she just plain doesn't want to meet.

So, I ask myself why meet up with her? Is there something in you that has this need. Personal items can be left at a neutral place for pick up. That is what I did. Never saw him.

Whether she is borderline or not, why bring additional pain for either one of you?

There are multiple reasons in my case... .mine was a good relationship... .a part of me (getting increasingly smaller) believes there to be some salvation for this... .it stands a snow balls chance but there is still a chance... .another part of me wants closure; i want her to tell me why she did what she did (it will probably never happen but some goals never do)... .I'd like the chance to tell her what I fee and how her actions affected me and my daughter.

[jhkbuzz]

Then I guess mine feels no shame at all. After she flew under the radar for a month she showed up at places she knew I'd be.

Mine cheated on me... .an affair ended the r/s.  That's the origin of the shame... .

[JRT]

Ya can't get any more shame than an affair... .

[Hazelrah]

Then I guess mine feels no shame at all. After she flew under the radar for a month she showed up at places she knew I'd be.

That's interesting when you put it that way... .perhaps some feel no shame... .or we are way off base on this.

Ultimately, that is why it really isn't that helpful to ruminate on this stuff. Nobody knows the mind of another person. I know that it helps to try to get closure and have some understanding of why the other person did what he/she did. At the end of the day, it is torturing yourself and it is likely that you may never find out the "real" reason. The reason could be anything from full of shame to no shame at all. It could be something as simple as "I just didn't feel like it" or it could be that the other person thinks you are the spawn of Satan.

I would disagree V... .sure there are competing thoughts, but ultimately, we put together the ones that make sense given the situation. While the motivation for her avoidance escapes me, I think that I have mostly everything else figured out where the day it happened, I was trying to figure out what just happened.

I think Vortex has a good point in regards to rumination.  Over-analysis of another person’s behavior is one of the things that keeps us stuck and in a cycle of our own pain.  I know this from experience.  It is quite natural to do this in the early stages of grief, and this is a wonderful place to turn for support.  But most of the folks that really get a handle on things do it when they start to break this cycle... .and I think that is what Vortex is getting at.  Staying stuck in that pattern for too long only prolongs the pain.  Eventually we need to look inside, too.  If we are continuing to pursue someone who has gone to lengths to block communication, we should eventually ask ourselves why we are acting against their wishes.  Whether or not they seem rational to us, their behavior likely makes perfect sense to them, and we’re not going to rationalize that away with them, especially if they truly do suffer from BPD.

[Cleveland]

I also agree it is shame based. They treat you terribly then you want to meet them and be friendly with an exchange? Nope, they want to run. She said she might still want you  at the end of your post. You also may trigger her into a rage because it is over and she just plain doesn't want to meet.

So, I ask myself why meet up with her? Is there something in you that has this need. Personal items can be left at a neutral place for pick up. That is what I did. Never saw him.

Whether she is borderline or not, why bring additional pain for either one of you?

Thank you, that explains why my ex won't make eye contact or even look up when we have to exchange our D in person.  And why she went to pretty much NC when I was taking a civil approach to her introducing D to her new BF already - I think she "inadvertently" told me to get a rise out of me, and while I did contact her several times regarding the situation, I remained civil throughout it.

NC has been so good to me, that I am almost afraid to tell her I am planning on introducing D3 to my new gf next month, but I have decided that I will always show her the level of respect I would like in return, even if I know I'll never get it.

[hergestridge]

I second the view that we need a reality check here. One might think of it as normal to be friendly with exes, but let's face it, but isn't that your own abandonmemt issues talking?

Of course she doesn't want to meet up. Most likely she has no fond memories and besides, she is no longer your girlfriend.

Ask yourself why you want to meet her and be really honest with yourself. Then think again if her refusal is that weird really.

My exwife wants to meet up all the time, but I refuse. It would suck all energy out of me to begin with... .

[hurting300]

Quote from: vortex of confusion on Today at 11:23:22 AM

I wonder if it might be more helpful to take this out of the realm of BPD. The reason that I say that is that I have read post after post where people (BPD and non) want no contact. I have seen the question: "Why does the BPD insist on meeting in person?" Now it is, "Why does the BPD refuse to meet in person?"

I am not trying to be mean or disrespectful. I sometimes think it helps me find "normal" in whatever I can get. Everybody reacts differently to a break up. I have had boyfriends that I didn't ever want to see again and I have boyfriends that I would love to see again. My desire to see them depended more on me and how I was feeling: weak, vulnerable, afraid, etc. If that is extrapolated onto somebody with BPD, then all of those feelings would be magnified.

I guess what I am trying to say is that sometimes there doesn't have to be a reason for a person to not want to see somebody else. They just don't want to see them. It isn't always something personal and it isn't always something related to BPD.

I don't know vortex, I think that the whole point is that they flip the switch and paint someone black at the spur of the moment for a seemingly uneventful reason. I can understand your point though. I think when nons don't want to have contact is because they have usually suffered some sort of abuse and need to detach and heal. I cannot think of anyone in my life that I've been intimate with that I don't ever want to see or talk to again. I get along with everyone that I've ever dated. I have no grudges against any of them.

Hell, I don't really even hold a grudge against my exBPDgf. I'm hurt. I'm confused. I wish that we somehow could have at least been somewhat friendly and keep in touch. But the reality of the situation is that she cheated on me, lied to me, and treated my like a used piece of toilet paper. And subsequently now wants nothing to do with me. It's backwards. I can understand her not wanting to have contact with me if I did something wrong to her, but she's the one that did me wrong. Shame is the only thing that makes any sense whatsoever, out of sight out of mind. What other reason could it be?

I think Vortex makes a good point.

I've been on these boards for about 6 years now?

For every post identifying or implying that only a pwBPD would behave this way... .and asking why... .there's a post by a 'non' behaving that exact same way.  I think a post of this nature could just as easily be entitled Why won't my ex agree to meet with me... .Because not all pwBPD are exactly the same, and, a person not dx with BPD under stress can very easily slip into the same exact behaviors.  In other words, when a person won't see you after a break up... .that's not a diagnostic criteria for a serious mental health disorder.  There are tons of reasons why a 'non' might choose NOT to meet up with an ex at any given time.  :)oes that make sense?

I think when nons don't want to have contact is because they have usually suffered some sort of abuse and need to detach and heal.

PwBPD are actually not all that different than someone w/out the disorder. Shocking but true.  If you look at the dx criteria for BPD... .nearly all non disordered people can say they have felt the same way or acted the same way at times in their life... .in all 9 diagnositc categories.  There isn't one thing on that list that is way out there or psychotic.   The reason the list is diagnostic is b/c it's so pervasive and steady over time and they have to have 5 or more happening at the same time.  Also, most clinicians and researchers are viewing BPD as a type of complex PTSD, eg., developmental trauma.  So, the reason they behave oddly in relationships is b/c they are triggered w/ intimacy the way a soldier is triggered by certain loud noises.  They are having trauma responses to closeness. Similar to a non as described above... .a pwBPD has suffered some kind of neglect or abuse that was in the arena of relating... .and so they are needing some distance and to heal, too.  Just like the non, only more intense and pervasive over time.  

My ex with BPD has never refused to meet with me after a break-up. All people are different, even those who have a dx disorder.  He is very high functioning, and has had lots of therapy... .if he was lower functioning and more prone to being triggered, he probably would refuse to meet me after a break-up at least for a period of time,  or have more trouble in that arena.  It's a spectrum disorder.  I am the one more likely to refuse to meet him after a break up, at least until some time has gone by.  And I am the 'non'.

Not meeting up after a break-up is often a very wise choice. Often some distance is greatly needed for both people to calm down, get grounded and gain some perspective.

people with a severe mental illness, are just like people who don't have it? I sense Some victim blaming with that statement. Let's debate this.

[ShadowIntheNight]

I'm not sure I agree with a BPD needing time to "heal" from a breakup, particularly in the case where they disappeared from view and then send a note, or email, or text, or some other childish manner to announce they have gone. And I am not speaking about short term dating relationships. I'm speaking of relationships that have lasted an extended period of time.

And it is particularly hurtful when they tell you have been dating others, or  rather seeking your replacement even before they leave. I can understand if that person had been abused, demeaned, treated poorly, etc, for looking for someone to rescue them from an awful situation. But I can't see them needing to heal when they have been treated quite well, equally and even with utmost respect. I'm sure you think well if it was that great why would someone leave. When my therapist and I figure it out, I will gladly post on here.

As it stands, she's spent the last 5 months "healing" by creating a new life with new friends and whomever's life she's managed to get entwined into. I haven't heard from her because she is trying to heal too? I haven't heard from her because she is a gutless coward and knows she would feel nothing but shame and guilt if she spoke to me. I, on the other hand, am still wasting money on her by seeing my T weekly just so i can make it from one day to the next. And in case it matters, we were together 9.5 yrs.

Both healing would imply both parties realizing the relationship wasn't working and showed mutual respect in ending it. Not someone stealing off in the night as if you and your life together never existed. There's nothing normal in that.

[hurting300]

I'm not sure I agree with a BPD needing time to "heal" from a breakup, particularly in the case where they disappeared from view and then send a note, or email, or text, or some other childish manner to announce they have gone. And I am not speaking about short term dating relationships. I'm speaking of relationships that have lasted an extended period of time.

And it is particularly hurtful when they tell you have been dating others, or  rather seeking your replacement even before they leave. I can understand if that person had been abused, demeaned, treated poorly, etc, for looking for someone to rescue them from an awful situation. But I can't see them needing to heal when they have been treated quite well, equally and even with utmost respect. I'm sure you think well if it was that great why would someone leave. When my therapist and I figure it out, I will gladly post on here.

As it stands, she's spent the last 5 months "healing" by creating a new life with new friends and whomever's life she's managed to get entwined into. I haven't heard from her because she is trying to heal too? I haven't heard from her because she is a gutless coward and knows she would feel nothing but shame and guilt if she spoke to me. I, on the other hand, am still wasting money on her by seeing my T weekly just so i can make it from one day to the next. And in case it matters, we were together 9.5 yrs.

Both healing would imply both parties realizing the relationship wasn't working and showed mutual respect in ending it. Not someone stealing off in the night as if you and your life together never existed. There's nothing normal in that.

yeah I do not agree with that either. My ex disappeared and didn't even have a backbone to tell me. They are abusers. Plain and simple.