Focusing on specific behaviors

[MissyM]

R

ecently, the dryer broke and I asked my husband to look at it. He figured out how to fix it. I was very grateful to him for that. Later, he said said that he was really glad that I let him fix it. He said he knew that I could have probably figured it out on my own if I had to. He said it made him feel more like a man.

This sounds like a huge change in the way of handling things!  So, maybe there are more ways that the 2 of you can build on this?  I know that recently my dBPDh and I have been working more in partnership.  As we have both seen that this is having huge benefits, it makes it easier and easier to build upon. 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[vortex of confusion]

This sounds like a huge change in the way of handling things!  So, maybe there are more ways that the 2 of you can build on this?  I know that recently my dBPDh and I have been working more in partnership.  As we have both seen that this is having huge benefits, it makes it easier and easier to build upon. 

In the last year or so, I have been trying to find more opportunities for him to fix things or do things that I know will make him feel better about himself. I know that his self esteem is improving because he took the initiative to watch the videos and figure out how to do it. There have been times in the past when he would have panicked over something like that. One thing that I know about my husband is that he is a very fragile person. I try to find ways to set him up for success. But, a lot of that didn't work because of where HE was at.

Speaking of partnership, we had a really great conversation about partnerships this morning. I was trying to point out that I felt like he wasn't taking ownership of the house, the kids, etc. because his attitude is that whatever he does is done because he is helping me. Taking out the trash is helping me. Other little things that he does are being done to help me. I think one of the examples that I used was with the kids. When he does stuff like put the kids to bed, he phrases it as helping me with the kids. I tried to point out that him doing those things isn't helping ME but is part of being a dad. It is like he uses me as a reference point for everything. I want that to stop because it makes me feel more like his parent than a partner or friend.

[MissyM]

When he does stuff like put the kids to bed, he phrases it as helping me with the kids. I tried to point out that him doing those things isn't helping ME but is part of being a dad. It is like he uses me as a reference point for everything. I want that to stop because it makes me feel more like his parent than a partner or friend.

That is a common theme among spouses of SAs, not sure about BPDs.  The goal in recovery is to move more toward equal partnership.  For some reasons most SAs are checked out as Dads (not to be sexist I do know of female SAs) but aren't even aware of it.  This has gotten so much better in recovery, my dBPDh wants to be a better Dad (although he has had to let go of the illusion that he was already a good Dad).  Hopefully, over the next year this will begin to shift with your BPDh.

[vortex of confusion]

That is a common theme among spouses of SAs, not sure about BPDs.  The goal in recovery is to move more toward equal partnership.  For some reasons most SAs are checked out as Dads (not to be sexist I do know of female SAs) but aren't even aware of it.  This has gotten so much better in recovery, my dBPDh wants to be a better Dad (although he has had to let go of the illusion that he was already a good Dad).  Hopefully, over the next year this will begin to shift with your BPDh.

Thank you so much for this MissyM!

That describes my husband to a T. He has had this illusion that he is some kind of great dad but that is not what the reality was. I have tried to validate him and remind him that he WAS a great dad when the oldest two were younger. The oldest comments that she wishes dad would go back to being the goofy/fun dad that she had when she was little. I have tried to remind him of how he was when the oldest two girls were younger. I have used that as "proof" that he has it in him to be a good dad, he just isn't back to that place yet.

Our youngest (6) hardly knows her dad and has rejected him for most of her life because of how he has been. I can see things slowly changing as the youngest will actually ask for him occasionally. And, I go back to work next week and one of the girls said that she was actually looking forward to me going back to work because they get to ride with me to go meet dad. Last year at this time, I would have called you a liar if you had told me that I would have another job, my own bank account, and the kids would actually be looking forward to me going to work.

[MissyM]

Last year at this time, I would have called you a liar if you had told me that I would have another job, my own bank account, and the kids would actually be looking forward to me going to work.

Really amazing changes, VC!  I have to say I am impressed with how quickly you seem to have caught onto making changes.  I think I was a big more stubborn.

[vortex of confusion]

Really amazing changes, VC!  I have to say I am impressed with how quickly you seem to have caught onto making changes.  I think I was a big more stubborn.

I have been trying to make changes for years but didn't have enough information. I had been doing all of the things that were supposed to work with a "normal" person but failed miserably. I assumed that I had to be the problem and that I just wasn't getting it right.

Finding this site put a lot of the puzzle pieces together for me.

[Notwendy]

Vortex - congratulations on the job

[vortex of confusion]

Vortex - congratulations on the job

Thank you Notwendy!

I will have my one year anniversary at this job next month. It took me about 6 months of serious looking before I found this job. I have another part time job but it is online and doesn't get me out of the house and it doesn't get me the kind of experience that I need in my profession.

[123Phoebe]

For me, what I am wanting to do is untangle the mess and look at my options of how I want to or should respond in a given situation:

For example, I have identified my husband's lack of follow through as an issue that really bothers me and it does have an impact on me. I am trying to break things down into smaller, more manageable chunks so that I deal with things one at a time and make deliberate choices. I can look at emptying the dishwasher as a separate issue from changing the cat boxes. A different approach can be taken in each situation because of the level of impact it has on me.

In either of those situations, I can:

1. Keep doing what I have done in the past, which is to moan and grumble and do it myself.

2. Look at the direct impact it has on me and identify how much it does or doesn't impact me. In the case of emptying the dishwasher, it only becomes an issue to me IF I need it to be empty because I have more dishes to do. In the case of the cat box, if he doesn't change them, I have to put up with the odor, but I know that I can spray disinfectant or do other things that drown it out. As a result, I can be more patient with him on one issue.

3. I can nag and gripe about it and ride his butt until he does it.

4. Push for a system where there are direct rewards/consequences for him following through on various things around the house.

Something just sprang out at me.  First, I can't recall my dad ever doing a dish.  I do remember my sister and I having certain chores; for example, we'd alternate putting dishes away, loading up the dishwasher.  I've cleaned my share of cat boxes, bathrooms, dusting, laundry etc... .It was part of family life.

Could some of these issues you're having (with your husband) be delegated to your children? 

It's just that what you're describing sounds like a Mom complaining about her lazy kids, not a wife speaking about her husband.

I feel like living as though he wasn't here would work IF his presence didn't create conflict. Sure, I do all of those things on my own. It is a bit of a push/pull situation. Recently, the dryer broke and I asked my husband to look at it. He figured out how to fix it. I was very grateful to him for that. Later, he said said that he was really glad that I let him fix it. He said he knew that I could have probably figured it out on my own if I had to. He said it made him feel more like a man.

It has me curious... .  Could your husband feel that he's not respected as a man?

[vortex of confusion]

It's just that what you're describing sounds like a Mom complaining about her lazy kids, not a wife speaking about her husband.

You are right. Part of it is that he acts like a lazy kid instead of a husband.

My dad never did a dish either. Heck, my dad never did any housework. My mom and us kids tended to wait on my dad (and later on my brother). There were very clearly defined roles in my house growing up. My mother and I have had this conversation and she has used the fact that my husband does some stuff around the house as a way to invalidate my concerns.

If I want to look at what my dad did when I was a kid, I can say that my dad was a pretty awesome dad. He may not have done any housework but he would spend time with us kids. I was never ever afraid of being with my dad as a kid. I felt safer with my dad than I felt with pretty much anyone. My kids don't have that. They ask me stuff like, "Why does dad spend so much time on his computer games?" or "Why does dad act like a kid instead of a parent?" When I was a kid, dad would take us kids places. My dad rarely ever went anywhere without a kid or two (usually me and my brother). So, I have a really difficult time understanding how a dad acts like he doesn't want anything to do with his kids. Talking about housework, when I was a kid, my dad would do stuff with us to get us out of mom's hair. My husband doesn't do that. I don't get a moments peace some days.

The relationship between my husband and I have definitely become parentefied (is that word?).

It has me curious... .  Could your husband feel that he's not respected as a man?

I am certain that he doesn't feel like he is respected as a man. It is really difficult to respect somebody as a man when his behavior is that of an insolent child.

I have spent years trying to build him up and make him feel manly.

And, to be perfectly honest, I don't respect him as a man. He doesn't behave like any of the men I know behave. I can't rely on him to do "manly" work because he usually doesn't feel well. Or, he doesn't know how to do it. He sucks as a dad. He sucks as a husband. The only thing that he does well is go to work and play his computer games.

I tried to talk to him about helping more with the kids so I can get more sleep. He started complaining about HIS lack of sleep. He doesn't help with the night time parenting. He stays up and play his computer games until midnight even after I remind him of the time.