Have you been able to forgive yourself or your BPD?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

The BPD can be considered like a bully, seeing the so-called weaknesses of others, and the BPD thus will be physically, emotionally, verbally abusive. We as nonBPDs make a choice not to be bullies. We can understand their past, show them love and kindness, listen and validate, and learn from the lessons on this website.

If we nonBPDs were to resort or let's say stoop down to their level of behavior, they surely would react in one way or another, and they would have every right to feel hurt.

How long it takes us nonBPDs to get help or to get out is an individual matter. It all depends on the depth of the hurt and if there is no apologizing and true change within them to feel good about themselves, thus feeling the same way about others.

[Samuel S.]

The BPD can be considered like a bully, seeing the so-called weaknesses of others, and the BPD thus will be physically, emotionally, verbally abusive. We as nonBPDs make a choice not to be bullies. We can understand their past, show them love and kindness, listen and validate, and learn from the lessons on this website.

If we nonBPDs were to resort or let's say stoop down to their level of behavior, they surely would react in one way or another, and they would have every right to feel hurt.

How long it takes us nonBPDs to get help or to get out is an individual matter. It all depends on the depth of the hurt and if there is no apologizing and true change within them to feel good about themselves, thus feeling the same way about others.

[OnceConfused]

Hi all,

Forgiveness is not about the other person, but really is for ourselves and our own peace. By forgiving others, we let go of our hatred , our past pains, and ultimately our own suffering.

Buddha teaches:

You will not be punished for your anger, but you will be punished BY your anger.


Forgiving is a good way to let go, and let ourselves be free from all things

[OnceConfused]

I forgot to add :

Forgiving does not mean we should forget and let it happen to us again.

[eyvindr]

Well said, appollotech -- right here:

That is when I chose to COMPLETELY forgive my BPDexgf. She is not running her life; her disorder is running her life, and it's completely wrecking her life, over and over, again and again. I do not believe in forgive and forget. I will forgive, but I will not forget. That is why she is my "ex" gf. Even though we are now NC, I still love her (not romantically), have compassion for her, empathize with her, pity her, am friends with her, etc. I seperated her from her disorder through my own understanding of her disorder. I forgave her, not her disorder. Forgiveness is as much of a blessing to the Forgiver as it is to the Forgiven.

You hit it on the head. I feel the same way towards my ex -- even though she'd argue that you can't claim to love someone if you've gone NC. Only thing I'd add is that that, while the disorder is running their lives -- to an extent, they do have the choice to take a step back, decide they aren't willing to continue living this way, and take steps to change. But neither of our exes have made that choice.

Instead, we had to make the choice between a healthy existence with a future where happiness is possible, or more of the same.

Sounds easy -- and it would have been, had we not loved them.

[apollotech]

Well said, appollotech -- right here:

That is when I chose to COMPLETELY forgive my BPDexgf. She is not running her life; her disorder is running her life, and it's completely wrecking her life, over and over, again and again. I do not believe in forgive and forget. I will forgive, but I will not forget. That is why she is my "ex" gf. Even though we are now NC, I still love her (not romantically), have compassion for her, empathize with her, pity her, am friends with her, etc. I seperated her from her disorder through my own understanding of her disorder. I forgave her, not her disorder. Forgiveness is as much of a blessing to the Forgiver as it is to the Forgiven.

You hit it on the head. I feel the same way towards my ex -- even though she'd argue that you can't claim to love someone if you've gone NC. Only thing I'd add is that that, while the disorder is running their lives -- to an extent, they do have the choice to take a step back, decide they aren't willing to continue living this way, and take steps to change. But neither of our exes have made that choice.

Instead, we had to make the choice between a healthy existence with a future where happiness is possible, or more of the same.

Sounds easy -- and it would have been, had we not loved them.

eyvindr,

Once I educated myself and saw her patterns it became very evident to me that she was not running her show. There was way too much difference from one day to the next regarding the same issues, absolutely no consistency. Normal people are creatures of habit; she simply was not. She had idealized high moral standards, but she wouldn't/couldn't practice them. Her out of control impulse affliction drove her from one bad decision to another. It was/is a wreck to say the least, for everyone involved.

The kicker for me is that, at some point, I am going to bring this woman back into my life... .not in a romantic capacity, but in some capacity. She and I go way back, high school friends. I am now 51, and she's 48, so there's a few years of history there. I want her to be a part of my life here, to some degree, and I also want to be a part of her life. I am still trying to figure out exactly what we can be for one another. I am simply not comfortable abandoning her. And quiet frankly, I don't want to do that permanently. I certainly could not even approach this thought process without forgiving her and understanding that she is a person with a mental disorder.

[eyvindr]

You sound like a good friend, apollotech. You'e obviously a kind and compassionate person.

I wish I could do the same with my ex. I feel for her. But she has repeatedly made it clear that all she's interested in with me is a full-blown committed r-ship, and I can't do that. So I have to let her go. I'll always regret how I had to just walk away from her.

[apollotech]

You sound like a good friend, apollotech. You'e obviously a kind and compassionate person.

I wish I could do the same with my ex. I feel for her. But she has repeatedly made it clear that all she's interested in with me is a full-blown committed r-ship, and I can't do that. So I have to let her go. I'll always regret how I had to just walk away from her.

eyvindr,

I understand where you're coming from. There is NO way I would ever enter into another romantic relationship with my BPDexgf. She simply cannot provide what I require. Unfortunately, I don't even think that I'd ever consider her a friend again. To be with her will entail that I am forever guarding my "self." I wouldn't have to do that with a friend. I don't know how all of this will shake out, but I am not happy with what we are right now, which is nothing to one another. I am going to take a few months of NC to evaluate our options. Hell, I might get lucky... .she might tell me to get lost when I eventually do reach out to her! 

[Samuel S.]

Yes, BPD have a mental disease based on their past. This can explain a lot of factors about how they behave and react. In a manner of speaking, it is like PTSD.

With that all being said, one of you said and I agree that it is their choice. In my own particular history, when I was a child, I was affected by my parents who constantly argued, thus making me very scared. Yes, my family history affected my life, but it was my choice as to how to proceed. I could have learned to be hateful, be angry, pick fights, and/or be negative for the rest of my life. Nevertheless, I chose to feel sad for them, to love them, anyway. Then, I made the decision to become a teacher, because I knew that there must be many kids who needed not only to learn the subject, but also needed to be encouraging, listening, helpful. I have indeed done that for over 40 years. There were many positive consequences. I am not bragging, but I am just saying that no matter what our past may have been, we make the choice to either not be what our past was like or to perpetuate it.

Due to my "where there is life, there is hope" philosophy, I hope and pray for the best each day, but I am getting disenchanted by my BPDw's ability to be verbally and emotionally abusive and be better the next hour or day, but only to continue the typical BPD cycle. So, it is a major challenge to forgive my BPDw.

[apollotech]

Samuel S.,

You are in a completely different situation than I was in as I was not married to nor living with my BPD significant other. Unlike you, I had breathing room. I was trying to answer your topic heading in my initial post about how I arrived at forgiving my BPDexgf.

I did not and don't make excuses for her disorder. And you are correct in saying that people with BPD can seek treatment for their ailment. The sad fact of that matter is that very few ever seek treatment. Of those that do, the success rate is only about 9% (based on the research stastics I have seen). There is another factor at play here regarding BPD as well:  a person with BPD also has physiological issues stacked against them, a malformed brain.

Ultimately, forgiveness is a charitable process/event. We either give it or we don't. It is a choice. If we wait for someone to be worthy of forgiveness, that time may never come. I chose forgiveness so that I could move forward. That being said, I also chose to terminate the relationship and go completely NC on my end. I did that to get my bearings, to establish where we were and possibly where we could be at some point. I have/had NO control over my BPDexgf's actions nor could I hope/wish/pray her behavior away; I faithfully tried! I eventually accepted those facts. That is where I am at now. It is not where I set out to be; it is where I have to be due to the circumstances.

[Samuel S.]

During the time I was dating my now BPDw and during the first couple of years of our marriage, one of my daughters from my first marriage and her boyfriend needed some of my time, but I always made sure that my now BPDw was my first priority. Nevertheless, she never perceived it that way. She wanted all of my attention. She and I continuously had arguments with me packing and ready to leave, because she was very demanding. Then, she would mildly apologize with me returning. She then convinced me that both of my daughters wanted me for my inheritance money, but didn't love me. That was 16 years ago.

It saddens my heart deeply in terms of the conversation that my BPDw and I had tonight! She said she still cares for me. She still loves me. She has forgiven me. Nevertheless, the same, deep love that we had in the very beginning will never be the same.

My perspective about our past and about now is that I still care for her. I still love her. I have forgiven her. I do dwell on the past. I live in the present. So, my heart is saddened. I feel like the wind has been sapped out of me.

What do you folks think?

[Mike-X]

Apollotech and others, I appreciate all of your responses. It makes sense that the BPD's past are immensely influential as to how they will act with their SO. And yes, Apoolotech, to be able to forgive them for their illness is very important to strive for.

I have always been a forgiving type of guy. We all mistakes. Having been a teacher for over 40 years, I have encountered all kinds of mistakes made by students. If I were to discount them after one or several mistakes, I am afraid I would have very few students left. Having been in other relationships, you take the good with the not so good.

With all that being said, I have forgiven and forgiven and forgiven what my BPDw has done by being verbally and emotionally abusive and for being manipulative. Now, though, she continues being a combination of nice to being down right verbally and emotionally abusive, based on her day. I guess what I am saying is I have become not angry with her, but exhausted by her need to control. Sure, I rationalize her tremendous mood swings which she conveniently never acknowledges and apologizes for.

Just recently, I became infected with the flu. While she has done some food preparation for me which I appreciate and have thanked her quite a bit, all of my thanking, all of my helping her when I am well which is most of the time, listening and validating whenever she wishes to do so, none of that has made her realize that I have been there for her all along. She only has continued to be that much more verbally and emotionally abusive, the same type of abuse along with physical abuse that she experienced when she was a child. Now, she is doing exactly the same thing.

Of course, this is very common unfortunately, but she has a choice as to what she does. If she does something totally out of the realms of decency, fine, IF she is willing to apologize and to learn from the past. Then, I can forgive, because we are all human. What makes it worse is the fact that she is getting weekly therapy.

BTW, I have tried numerous times to tactfully talk with her, how it hurts me. Yet, she rationalizes it to the max to continue doing the same.

My only escapegoats are my family and my professional friends.

I think that the expectations that you have expressed here are normal expectations for a relationship, that is, a relationship with someone who isn't living with BPD. However, this type of inconsistency and failure to show affection and compassion (a form of validation really) seems to be par for the course with BPD.

Have you read anything about radical acceptance? I ask because I feel that some of your comments suggest a struggle with accepting many of her behaviors as manifestations of the disorder. I just get the impression that you are struggling to understand and want to change these disorder-based behaviors. As you probably know, it takes years of hard, deep therapy to move from clinically diagnosed BPD to no longer meeting clinical criteria, 2-10 years with most requiring 5-10.  So avoiding the use of disorder-related defense mmechanisms that lead to what people without the disorder might consider irrational thinking and behavior is most likely not going to happen due to one or a series of discussions between the two of you. That is, you are unlikely, in my opinion, to fix her by reasoning with her. From what I have read 'fixing' her will require fixing the damage from her past.

So rather than fight and struggle with the disorder, one that you are not trained to fix, have you considered just accepting it? Still learn and practice the communication strategies found here and elsewhere on the Net. But personalize the disordered behavior and thoughts.